---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/01/05: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:05 AM - Re: Rotax 914 problem/question (Jeremy Davey) 2. 03:01 AM - Radio reception (David Corbett) 3. 03:20 AM - Re: Rotax 914 problem/question (Mike Gregory) 4. 04:33 AM - Re: Radio reception (ivor.phillips) 5. 04:39 AM - Re: Rotax 914 problem/question (Jim Brown) 6. 04:48 AM - Re: Radio reception (KARL HEINDL) 7. 09:15 AM - Re: Radio reception (Richard Holder) 8. 09:47 AM - Re: Rotax 914 problem/question (Jerry Rehn) 9. 10:18 AM - 3 Nico cable? (Ronald J. Parigoris) 10. 11:35 AM - ANR HEADSETS (van eldik) 11. 01:01 PM - Re: Rotax 914 problem/question (Matt Carpenter) 12. 04:15 PM - Re: Rotax 914 problem/question (SPurpura@aol.com) 13. 05:17 PM - Re: Radio reception (Fred Fillinger) 14. 07:36 PM - Re: Radio reception (Fred Fillinger) 15. 11:44 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (dralle@matronics.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:33 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 problem/question --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" A high EGT would imply a lean mixture to me. The fact that an additional pump had a degree of improvement, then cleaning the filters made a significant difference, would suggest to me that you're not getting sufficient fuel pressure due to blocked filters. (I emphasise that this would just be my first theory, and other causes shouldnt be ruled out!) I'd check your filters again, would take the old one you took out apart and check it, would drain the tank (through a filter, checking what you get, and making sure the tank is well agitated during the process by some means), and would give the tank a good flush. One thought, when you refuelled before the flight, was it direct or through a filter funnel? Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Carpenter Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 914 problem/question --> Europa-List message posted by: Matthew Carpenter A weird problem with our 914 showed up on the way home from Oshkosh last Wednesday. 1.5 hours from Oshkosh heading to Texas, the altitude was 6500 msl and the OAT was 44F. The engine begin to lose power, the sound changed. The EGT, normally at 1360 was at 1550 and going up. When the EGT hit 1600 the engine begin to sound ruff, like it was starting to miss, but not to the point of stopping. To us it seemed the the mixture was to lean.. might we be seeing some carb ice? Water in the gas? I turned on the secondary full pump, the EGT dropped down to 1550, and the engine did smooth out, but the power was still not there. The MP showed 31, RMP was at 5000, it all looked good.. except for the EGT. We landed and replaced the full filter.. maybe it was starting to clog up.. Ran fine for 1 more hour, 4500msl and 65F OAT, then the problem came back. I went down to 2000 msl, and the problem went away. We landed once more, and I checked all the hoses, and electrical wiring under the hood, everything looked fine. We ended up flying the rest of the way at 3500msl, and had no problems for 3 hours.. Any ideas?? Why would the EGT drop when I turn on both fuel pumps, and then return to 1600+ with only 1 pump on. (even toggled the two pumps). Hope someone had some ideas, I would like to fix it before the next long flight. Thanks, Matt Carpenter A138 N138WJ Amarillo Texas ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:01:54 AM PST US From: "David Corbett" Subject: Europa-List: Radio reception --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Corbett" I have been watching this dsicussion with more than a passing interest. I have 2 COM's; COM 1 is a GNS 430 connected to the standard Europa dipole, and COM 2 is a KX125 coennected to a standard whip aerial. The whip is mounted within the (classic) fin, on a ground plane plate; it is about 350-400 mm in front of the dipole. The dipole was tested with a VSWR meter during the build process. My aircraft has been flying for over 4 years, without any reported radio problems. Over the past 3/4 months I have noticed considerable interference during reception of incoming signals on both sets, particularly on my home frquency of 123.5. I have also noticed that sometimes I cannot hear other aircraft talking to our tower, even though they are quite close. I have conducted various trials with our tower, and they cannot detect any problem with my transmissions. On the London FIR frequencies of 124.75 and 124.6, I have no reception problems whatsoever, except in some geographical areas, as one would expect. I remarked to Paddy Clark (G-KIMM) at FFF that, whilst over the North Sea recently en route to Texel, I had heard him on the FIR frequency very loud and very clear - better than any other aircraft on the frequency at that time - whilst he was climbing out from his base near Bath. Looking at the chart, we were some 200 NM apart at the time. At Oslo Guardamonen recently, I had an interesting experience. I received taxi clearance from the GA terminal on the tower frequency 118.3, and taxied to the hold of 19R; at the hold, the tower could not read me on either of my COM boxes, but gave me (a very distorted) take-off clearance. As soon as I was airborne, I was given a further clearance, which I acknowledged - to which the friendly controller replied "Now you are loud and clear - just like reading a book!" Back at Shobdon yesterday, I did a local trial flight to evaluate a BOSE ANR headset (do not buy one for use in a Europa - but that is another story!), and all the incoming signals on 123.5, on both boxes and through both the BOSE and my usual Peltor headset, were very crackly, but they were reading me OK. This morning, in conversation with a professional pilot, he has suggested that if the central core of the coax cable is connected to the part of the dipole pointing down, that may well account for some of the reported problems, especially when the aircraft is on the ground. I have now looked at my build photo's, and sure enough, the central core is connected to the lower half of the dipole. So I have 2 problems here - maybe a problem with dipole connections, and certainly a (separate) problem with interference on incoming signals on 2 diffrenet sets. Incidentally, my set-up works through a Garmin 340 Audio Panel. And finally - what is a good ANR headset for use in an aircraft with a Rotax engine - the BOSE (I have tried 2 diffrerent headsets) emphasises the higher pitched aprt of the engine noise? David G-BZAM - UK 265 - 300 hrs ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:20:48 AM PST US From: "Mike Gregory" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 problem/question --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Gregory" Matt, You may wish to check that your return flow orifice has not become obstructed. If so, there would be increased likelihood of vapour lock at altitude, especially on autogas. We shall all be interested in the outcome of your investigations. Mike Europa Club Safety Officer ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:12 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Radio reception --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" The London information frequencies are on repeaters so you would be able to receive other aircraft that are further away than line of sight, .. > > On the London FIR frequencies of 124.75 and 124.6, I have no reception > problems whatsoever, except in some geographical areas, as one would > expect. I remarked to Paddy Clark (G-KIMM) at FFF that, whilst over the > North Sea recently en route to Texel, I had heard him on the FIR > frequency very loud and very clear - better than any other aircraft on > the frequency at that time - whilst he was climbing out from his base > near Bath. Looking at the chart, we were some 200 NM apart at the time. > regards Ivor ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:31 AM PST US From: Jim Brown Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 problem/question --> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown Matt Since the missing problem is altitude related, I would pull the air box away from the rear of the carb's. Reach inside the carb and see if the sliding barrel is stuck. It should move freely up or down, if the barrel is stuck, or moves very slowly. it needs to be cleaned so that it will move freely. (This sets the mixture as the airplane climbs to altitude), hence the rough at running at altitude, and the smooth running at a lower altitude. This is why at altitude the EGT is going up (lean mixture). If the barrel is not the case. pull the carb and clean out the float chamber and jets. Something is partial blocking the main jet. Carb ice is not a problem with the 914. The turbo raises the air temperature above temp for ice formation. Jim Brown N398JB N112B (RV 7A almost ready to fly) Matthew Carpenter wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: Matthew Carpenter > > A weird problem with our 914 showed up on the way home from Oshkosh last > Wednesday. > > 1.5 hours from Oshkosh heading to Texas, the altitude was 6500 msl and > the OAT was 44F. > The engine begin to lose power, the sound changed. The EGT, normally at > 1360 was at 1550 and going up. > When the EGT hit 1600 the engine begin to sound ruff, like it was > starting to miss, but not to the point of stopping. > To us it seemed the the mixture was to lean.. might we be seeing some > carb ice? Water in the gas? > I turned on the secondary full pump, the EGT dropped down to 1550, and > the engine did smooth out, but the power was > still not there. The MP showed 31, RMP was at 5000, it all looked > good.. except for the EGT. > > We landed and replaced the full filter.. maybe it was starting to clog up.. > Ran fine for 1 more hour, 4500msl and 65F OAT, then the problem came > back. I went down to 2000 msl, and the problem went > away. > > We landed once more, and I checked all the hoses, and electrical wiring > under the hood, everything looked fine. > > We ended up flying the rest of the way at 3500msl, and had no problems > for 3 hours.. > > Any ideas?? Why would the EGT drop when I turn on both fuel pumps, and > then return to 1600+ with only 1 pump on. (even toggled the two pumps). > > Hope someone had some ideas, I would like to fix it before the next long > flight. > > Thanks, > > Matt Carpenter > A138 > N138WJ > Amarillo Texas > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:59 AM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Radio reception --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" David, Regarding headsets, I took the advice of other Europa owners and bought the Lightspeed Cross Country; it is the cheapest of the ANR headsets. It works very well with attenuating the Rotax frquencies. I later compared it in flight with another much more expensive set, I can't remember the make, and was amazed by how much quieter mine was. Don't fall for all this marketing bumph, buy what works best. Karl >From: "David Corbett" >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: "Europa Forum " Subject: Re: Europa-List: Radio reception --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder > And finally - what is a good ANR headset for use in an aircraft with a > Rotax engine - the BOSE (I have tried 2 diffrerent headsets) emphasises > the higher pitched aprt of the engine noise? Despite opening myself up for advertising : I do ANR conversions for DC and Peltor type headsets. In my Europa I have two of these headsets - just cheap headsets, which have the conversion and which takle their power from the aircraft (no batteries).. Others on the Flyer Forum have tested these conversions and they report that they are better at noise reduction than the Bose. The Bose is VERY light but that allows extraneous noise in there. In fcat everyone raves about them ! I have done over 90 of these conversions so far. The advantage (other than the quietness) is that you don't end up with yet another headset ! Contact me direct if you are interested in more information - numbers in my signature -- Richard Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax) Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:36 AM PST US From: "Jerry Rehn" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 problem/question --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jerry Rehn" Matt On my trip to OSH from Seattle I had a similar problem. I actually had to throttle back to 26 inches to get engine to run smooth, my fuel pressure indicator was very low prior to throttling back. Landed and checked my Andair gascolator and found it to be full of fine black crud. Cleaned it and power was restored! I normally filter all my auto fuel but did not on this trip to OSH with 100LL. On way home I again experienced rough engine after flying some 800 miles. I discovered a slight fuel leak in front of the port carb between the intake manifold and the carb. I flew 5 or 6 hours home with a slightly rough engine . My port EGT ran hotter but all other indicators were good. Flew at 10,500 home. Called Rotax tech. He thinks could be a slight leak in intake manifold where carb is attached or contamination in the fuel float bowl and maybe balancing is off. I will be checking all of these and let you all know. The engine is a work horse and wants to keep going even when abused with bad fuel. I had a similar issue with a 912 in a Kifox some years ago. The engine would run smooth and then very rough and then smooth out for no particular reason drove me nuts trying to find issue. Turns out there were small alumin. shavings in port carb bowl that would move around and sometimes plug a fuel port and then drift away only to do it again! These metal shavings must have been left in bowl during manufacture. This was a new engine and I was the first to open carb bowl to look. So if there is something foreign in your cab bowl it will cause roughness.Bottom line is your issue is likely fuel related Regards Jerry 914XS Mono ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Carpenter" Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 914 problem/question > --> Europa-List message posted by: Matthew Carpenter > > A weird problem with our 914 showed up on the way home from Oshkosh last > Wednesday. > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:18:55 AM PST US From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Subject: Europa-List: 3 Nico cable? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" The monowheel manual calls for 2 nicos per thimble for tailwheel cables. If 2 is better than 1, is 3 better than 4? On smaller length cables that do not need to go through some sort of guide, I have had good success with 3 nico cables. What you do is thread 1 nico for each thimble as normal. Then you leave the tails long enough so they cross each other at half cable length. Then you swage a nico on the 2 tails, of course the tails enter at opposite sides of the nico. this sets your length. then you tension the 2 thimbles with 40 or more pounds, I usual use a 5 gallon can of kerosene and nico under tension. The cables will load share. I usual leave 1/8" cable sticking out of nico and heat shrink on a piece of adhesive lined teflon. Any comments as to why use 4 nicos instead of 3? thx. Ron P. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:06 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: ANR HEADSETS From: van eldik --> Europa-List message posted by: van eldik Very pleased with Lightspeed 20Xlc. Comfortable and excellent performance! rgds Anthony van Eldik (G-FLOR) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:07 PM PST US From: Matt Carpenter Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 problem/question --> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Carpenter Thanks for all the responses! We filled up at Oshkosh with 100LL no filter. The filter had been replaced the day before our trip to OSH. IT had around 7.5 hours on it. The filter looked good when we replaced it on the way home from OSH. I will let you guys know what I find out. Matt Carpenter Amarillo Texas On 8/1/05, Jerry Rehn wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jerry Rehn" > > Matt > On my trip to OSH from Seattle I had a similar problem. I actually had to > throttle back to 26 inches to get engine to run smooth, my fuel pressure > indicator was very low prior to throttling back. Landed and checked my > Andair gascolator and found it to be full of fine black crud. Cleaned it and > power was restored! I normally filter all my auto fuel but did not on this > trip to OSH with 100LL. On way home I again experienced rough engine after > flying some 800 miles. I discovered a slight fuel leak in front of the port > carb between the intake manifold and the carb. I flew 5 or 6 hours home with > a slightly rough engine . My port EGT ran hotter but all other indicators > were good. Flew at 10,500 home. Called Rotax tech. He thinks could be a > slight leak in intake manifold where carb is attached or contamination in > the fuel float bowl and maybe balancing is off. I will be checking all of > these and let you all know. The engine is a work horse and wants to keep > going even when abused with bad fuel. I had a similar issue with a 912 in a > Kifox some years ago. The engine would run smooth and then very rough and > then smooth out for no particular reason drove me nuts trying to find issue. > Turns out there were small alumin. shavings in port carb bowl that would > move around and sometimes plug a fuel port and then drift away only to do it > again! These metal shavings must have been left in bowl during manufacture. > This was a new engine and I was the first to open carb bowl to look. So if > there is something foreign in your cab bowl it will cause roughness.Bottom > line is your issue is likely fuel related > > Regards > Jerry 914XS Mono > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matthew Carpenter" > To: > Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 914 problem/question > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Matthew Carpenter > > > > A weird problem with our 914 showed up on the way home from Oshkosh last > > Wednesday. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:15:31 PM PST US From: SPurpura@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 problem/question --> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com I HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM ONCE WHILE USING 100LL,TURNED OUT TO BE VAPOR LOCK DUE TO THE HIGHER TEMPS CAUSED BY USING 100LL. SAM 914 N77EU ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:31 PM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Radio reception --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Corbett": > > This morning, in conversation with a professional pilot, he has > suggested that if the central core of the coax cable is connected > to the part of the dipole pointing down, that may well account > for some of the reported problems [distorted audio], especially > when the aircraft is on the ground. He said what? In coaxial transmission line theory, the shield does what the center conductor does. That is...if the line is balanced (i.e., ferrite bead "balun" added). If not, the coax shield is radiating, so it's possible that flipping the connections will improve....or make things worse, where the problem is ground reflections. On the common NAV antenna (cat's whiskers on a vertical fin), using the common type coax "balun," the center conductor is not electrically connected to anything. It just...ends! It works because of....the above mentioned theory. Fred F. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:59 PM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Radio reception --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Corbett": > > The whip is mounted within the (classic) fin, on a ground > plane plate; it is about 350-400 mm in front of the dipole. > The dipole was tested with a VSWR meter during the > build process. > > My aircraft has been flying for over 4 years, without any > reported radio problems. First, a VSWR meter may not clearly show what that setup is doing. It has no ability to assess whether the antenna is capable of receiving or transmitting anything. If VSWR reads good, we accomplish the latter by rules, like put the antenna out in the clear as much as we can. It looks like it's possible to violate all the rules, and things may still work, as maybe proven here? Anyway, here we have a 1/4-wave whip with a ground plane which isn't; it would be better if removed. We might have no balun (ferrite beads) on a dipole. Both coax cables run parallel and very close to the elements. The antennas are too close to each other. If RG-58 coax, the extra loss in the long runs of coax is significant if the antennas are compromised. So, to the extent the above has been working except in some fringe situations you cited is just the enormous dynamic range of the receivers. Antennas are reciprocal, so where we must necessarily xmit poorly too, the receiver on the other end has huge dynamic range also, plus rarely a compromised antenna. However, what happens when we play around with low RF receive levels -- the very lowest end of this dynamic range -- is we're asking the receiver to do things it wasn't designed for, nor needn't be. Thus the misconception that autosquelch must let usable signals be heard. Well, yeah. If autosquelch trips at 5 microvolts, then two guys with mutual 10W transmitters can talk (though weakly heard) across 400 miles with good antennas. But similar received microvolts within 20 miles of an airport means well, a really, really bad antenna in a given swath in the radiation pattern! Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:22 PM PST US From: dralle@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] DNA: do not archive --> Europa-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com Dear Lister, Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Europa-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Europa-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. ------- [This is an automated posting.]