---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/02/05: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:02 AM - Re: Isle of Man Festival of Aviation (Alan Burrows) 2. 02:31 AM - Re: A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTROL (NEEL Jean Philippe) 3. 06:52 AM - engines (Myron Haluschak) 4. 07:59 AM - Re: engines (Thomas Scherer) 5. 08:08 AM - Re: engines (Al Stills) 6. 08:22 AM - Re: engines (Andy Silvester) 7. 09:01 AM - Re: engines (gdhetrick) 8. 10:23 AM - Re: 3 Nico cable? (Fred Fillinger) 9. 10:58 AM - Re: Radio reception (nigel charles) 10. 08:04 PM - Re: Radio reception (Fred Fillinger) 11. 09:12 PM - Re: First flight N214KS (DuaneFamly@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:17 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: Europa-List: RE: Isle of Man Festival of Aviation --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" The festival is this Saturday and Sunday. Please let me know who intends coming over and for how long, so I can organise a BBQ if enough of us attend. Obviously its weather dependant, but so far it looks ok. I will also organise fuel for those that need it. If you have a nicer aircraft than mine please don't come! (I won best aircraft last year). The trophy is a huge thing standing about THREE FEET tall and made of silver. They wheel it out of the airport display cabinet just for the presentation, then security staff take it straight back again and you are left with a silver replica about 6" tall, so it will easily fit in your aircraft for the journey home. I hope as many of you as possible will make it over this year as the festival is a growing event, with lots of visiting aircraft and attractions. AND A BEER TENT for those staying over. It would be good to have a large contingent of Europa's present once again. Alan Ps don't forget to say hello to Kate in your radio calls, for priority clearances :-) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:26 AM PST US From: NEEL Jean Philippe Subject: RE: Europa-List: A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTROL --> Europa-List message posted by: NEEL Jean Philippe bonjour Is it possible to buy your book from France with paiement by intrenational credit card? JPN europa N273 Garey Wittich a crit : --> Europa-List message posted by: Garey Wittich > This Information comes from my own research which I did for > my RV-8A, which I am building. Information applies to both Aluminum and Composite aircraft. This is the 3th printing. > > --------------- ------------- ------------ > > SAVE YOURSELF hundreds of hours of research time and > building time, by using the comprehensive > > "Guide to Painting & Corrosion Control of Aluminum > and > Composite Aircraft" > > This book took over 600+ hours of research time by > me, > a fussy RV-8A Builder. Contains 69 pages of the > latest, practical information - summarized and > gathered from MIL Standards, Paint Shops, Builders > like you (what worked or didn't), Airframe Mfgs, > etc. > Covers products from PP&G, Dupont, Sherwin W'ms, > Sterling, Poly Fiber, Deft, Randolph Paints, PRC De > Soto, US Paints, Aircraft Finishing Systems, 3M, > etc. > > Some of the Topics covered in the 30 Sections are: > * Aircraft Paints vs Auto Paints and Other > Considerations > * Corrosion Control > * Spray Guns - selecting, adjusting, using > and painting problems > * Brushes / Rollers used with Primers & > Paints > * Prep Methods for Painting - Fiberglass, > Steel and Aluminum > * Epoxy Primers for Aluminum - MIL & > Commercial, Solvent & Water Reducible > * Primers for Fiberglass & Steel > * Wash Primers & Self Etching Primers > * Other Primers - Zinc Chromate,Zinc Oxide, > Enamel > * Paint Types: MIL & Non MIL Polyurethanes > Enamel Types > Acrylics - Lacquers & Enamels > * Acid Etch / Conversion Coatings (Alodine) > * Selecting a Paint Shop > * 3M Cleaning Pads, Liquid Cleaner > compatibility > * Paint Booths and their Construction > * References - MIL Standards & Tech Orders > * Directory of Aircraft Paint Mfgs, Distrib- > utors, etc. E-Mail addresses, phone > numbers, Application Notes > > YOUR AIRPLANE is judged by it's Paint Job and it is > costly too, so have the latest "Information" in > order > to make good decisions. Contains plenty of "Do's" > and > "Don'ts" that save you time, money and frustration. > > Send a check for $26 to (includes Postage within the > US) to: > Garey Wittich RV-8A Builder > 58 Village Parkway > Santa Monica, CA. 90405 > > __________________________________ http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail --------------------------------- Tlchargez le ici ! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:30 AM PST US From: "Myron Haluschak" Subject: Europa-List: engines --> Europa-List message posted by: "Myron Haluschak" Hello all: For those able to attend EAA, I hope you enjoyed it and got back safely. I am always open to looking at other engine possibilities to the Rotax 912S, even though I know the Europa was designed around a Rotax. If possible, the areas I would like to see advantages in are : cost, simplicity of operation, a complete FWF kit, preferrably no baffling, (or at least minimal), direct drive, and better HP if possible, no weight penalties. That's quite a list of demands. There is one engine that has been around that seems to offer alot of what I am looking for. So I am interested in hearing from anyone who is or has installed a Jabiru 3300 6 - cylinder engine. I have flown behind both 914 and 912S engines, spoken with happy Europa owners who have them, but they do admit to their complexity as being one downside, and one mentioned the regular need to go under the cowling. My first choice for my needs is the 912S unless something better comes along. What I found with the Jabiru is a 127 hp (advertised as 120 hp but continually dinos out to 127 hp) air cooled but with ram air ducts, direct drive, simple light and modern engine with a FWF kit, and less than the cost of the Rotax. I'm wondering why more haven't looked at this engine. Certainly they have been around and their safety record isn't showing a big red flag. I was told by builders what most have heard... the Europa was built and designed around the Rotax. If you change that then the flying qualities and all else changes. That's like Henry Ford saying you can have any colour you want, as long as it's black, when the Model T first came out. I am interested in hearing comments on both positive and negative on the Jabiru only, as I am already familiar with the good and bad for the Rotax. Thank you Myron Haluschak USAF A0149 Monowheel ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:13 AM PST US From: "Thomas Scherer" Subject: Re: Europa-List: engines --> Europa-List message posted by: "Thomas Scherer" Hello Myron, I would be surprised if a Jabiru owner spends less time under the 'hood'. The Rotax is a self-contained workhorse with minimal connections or maintenance. Mind you that Rotax is selling engines that are installed in night-ifr certified aircraft (Dimona Katana, DA-20). I would not have three oceans behind a Jabiru - not only for the fact that a Rotax is much more seasoned - also I still need to see a Jabiru in a Europa that burns 2 and a quarter gallons of car gas while propelling the plane to 1oo knots and weighing a mere 58 kg (dry). You are right - it is called 'Experimental' Aircraft and progress comes from trying new things, but as far as propulsion goes in a single engine plane ... be well, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Myron Haluschak" Subject: Europa-List: engines > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Myron Haluschak" > > > Hello all: > For those able to attend EAA, I hope you enjoyed it and got back safely. > I am always open to looking at other engine possibilities to the Rotax 912S, > even though I know the Europa was designed around a Rotax. If possible, the > areas I would like to see advantages in are : cost, simplicity of operation, a > complete FWF kit, preferrably no baffling, (or at least minimal), direct > drive, and better HP if possible, no weight penalties. > That's quite a list of demands. There is one engine that has been around that > seems to offer alot of what I am looking for. So I am interested in hearing > from anyone who is or has installed a Jabiru 3300 6 - cylinder engine. I have > flown behind both 914 and 912S engines, spoken with happy Europa owners who > have them, but they do admit to their complexity as being one downside, and > one mentioned the regular need to go under the cowling. My first choice for my > needs is the 912S unless something better comes along. > What I found with the Jabiru is a 127 hp (advertised as 120 hp but continually > dinos out to 127 hp) air cooled but with ram air ducts, direct drive, simple > light and modern engine with a FWF kit, and less than the cost of the Rotax. > I'm wondering why more haven't looked at this engine. Certainly they have been > around and their safety record isn't showing a big red flag. I was told by > builders what most have heard... the Europa was built and designed around the > Rotax. If you change that then the flying qualities and all else changes. > That's like Henry Ford saying you can have any colour you want, as long as > it's black, when the Model T first came out. I am interested in hearing > comments on both positive and negative on the Jabiru only, as I am already > familiar with the good and bad for the Rotax. > > Thank you > Myron Haluschak USAF > A0149 Monowheel > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: engines From: "Al Stills" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Al Stills" Myron, I'm currently installing a Jabiru 3300 into my XS Tri-gear. Very simple install. I'm using Suncoast Sport Planes FF kit. A new design on the cowl that looks great and should do the job better than the factory cowl. Weight appears to be the same if not a slight amount less. The engine is a beautiful piece of work. I've not finished the complete install yet so have done no run ups but have seen the engine in their plane and I think it will be a winner in the Europa. Cost wise... a little less than the Rotax when I bought mine. The only baffling I've had to do is from the cowl to the oil cooler that was pretty simple. Al Stills N625AZ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:30 AM PST US From: "Andy Silvester" Subject: RE: Europa-List: engines --> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Silvester" Myron, Thanks for considering the Jabiru engine. As the USA Supplier of Europa / Jabiru 3300 installation packages we saw quite a few Europa builders at the booth at Oshkosh and were hopefully able to provide information and experiences. Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc had an OEM supply agreement with Europa before their demise in UK and this led to the development by us of a complete 'firewall-forward' package including mount (produced by Jabiru), cowlings and all other required installation items. I've worked very closely with Flight Crafters (they are literally next door to my location here) and through their feedback and many other 'direct sale' customers I'm confident we have a product which meets or exceeds the needs of its market. I monitor this list on a daily basis and have been careful to avoid performance predictions or sales hype. Instead, I prefer to let owners here share their experiences of both product and service and I'm sure there will be more contributions soon from happy Jabiru owners. The new installation has been successfully fitted to a monowheel Europa which flew from here very recently, and I know the owner was happy with performance. More Tri-gear examples are nearing completion so news and experiences will be published here soon. Feel free to contact me for more info. Andy Silvester Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc. 39248 South Ave. Zephyrhills, FL 33542 Tel: 813 779 2324 Fax: 813 779 2246 www.suncoastjabiru.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Myron Haluschak Subject: Europa-List: engines --> Europa-List message posted by: "Myron Haluschak" Hello all: For those able to attend EAA, I hope you enjoyed it and got back safely. I am always open to looking at other engine possibilities to the Rotax 912S, even though I know the Europa was designed around a Rotax. If possible, the areas I would like to see advantages in are : cost, simplicity of operation, a complete FWF kit, preferrably no baffling, (or at least minimal), direct drive, and better HP if possible, no weight penalties. That's quite a list of demands. There is one engine that has been around that seems to offer alot of what I am looking for. So I am interested in hearing from anyone who is or has installed a Jabiru 3300 6 - cylinder engine. I have flown behind both 914 and 912S engines, spoken with happy Europa owners who have them, but they do admit to their complexity as being one downside, and one mentioned the regular need to go under the cowling. My first choice for my needs is the 912S unless something better comes along. What I found with the Jabiru is a 127 hp (advertised as 120 hp but continually dinos out to 127 hp) air cooled but with ram air ducts, direct drive, simple light and modern engine with a FWF kit, and less than the cost of the Rotax. I'm wondering why more haven't looked at this engine. Certainly they have been around and their safety record isn't showing a big red flag. I was told by builders what most have heard... the Europa was built and designed around the Rotax. If you change that then the flying qualities and all else changes. That's like Henry Ford saying you can have any colour you want, as long as it's black, when the Model T first came out. I am interested in hearing comments on both positive and negative on the Jabiru only, as I am already familiar with the good and bad for the Rotax. Thank you Myron Haluschak USAF A0149 Monowheel ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:47 AM PST US From: "gdhetrick" Subject: Re: Europa-List: engines --> Europa-List message posted by: "gdhetrick" Myron, Love my Jabiru 3300! It came complete with a FWF kit including the prop! I believe you will find quite a few AC equipped with this engine. Sonex seem to have standardized on it. A few "growing pains" but all sorted out. Dale A140 Tri-gear w/3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Myron Haluschak" Subject: Europa-List: engines > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Myron Haluschak" > > > Hello all: > For those able to attend EAA, I hope you enjoyed it and got back safely. > I am always open to looking at other engine possibilities to the Rotax > 912S, even though I know the Europa was designed around a Rotax. If > possible, the areas I would like to see advantages in are : cost, > simplicity of operation, a complete FWF kit, preferrably no baffling, (or > at least minimal), direct drive, and better HP if possible, no weight > penalties. > That's quite a list of demands. There is one engine that has been around > that seems to offer alot of what I am looking for. So I am interested in > hearing from anyone who is or has installed a Jabiru 3300 6 - cylinder > engine. I have flown behind both 914 and 912S engines, spoken with happy > Europa owners who have them, but they do admit to their complexity as > being one downside, and one mentioned the regular need to go under the > cowling. My first choice for my needs is the 912S unless something better > comes along. > What I found with the Jabiru is a 127 hp (advertised as 120 hp but > continually dinos out to 127 hp) air cooled but with ram air ducts, direct > drive, simple light and modern engine with a FWF kit, and less than the > cost of the Rotax. I'm wondering why more haven't looked at this engine. > Certainly they have been around and their safety record isn't showing a > big red flag. I was told by builders what most have heard... the Europa > was built and designed around the Rotax. If you change that then the > flying qualities and all else changes. That's like Henry Ford saying you > can have any colour you want, as long as it's black, when the Model T > first came out. I am interested in hearing comments on both positive and > negative on the Jabiru only, as I am already familiar with the good and > bad for the Rotax. > > Thank you > Myron Haluschak USAF > A0149 Monowheel > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:19 AM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 3 Nico cable? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris": > > The monowheel manual calls for 2 nicos per thimble > for tailwheel cables. > > If 2 is better than 1, is 3 better than 4? > If properly swaged, the cable is supposed to break first under tension. If two are used, it's insurance in case the first one is not quite compressed enough (possibly like my swages). So I guess whimsically, if 3-4 are really needed, it says a lot about my first two. Meaning my 3rd and 4th are...?. :-) Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:58:32 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Radio reception --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" I can also vouch for the ANR headset conversions. I converted my own Peltor headsets using a kit of parts. It was very easy and only took a couple of hours. It is worth providing a power source from the a/c supply to avoid the need for batteries. You need is a regulator chip which will step down the 12-14 volts to 9 volts. Nigel Charles >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list- >>server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Holder >>Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 17:12 >>To: europa-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Radio reception >> >>--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder >> >>> And finally - what is a good ANR headset for use in an aircraft with a >>> Rotax engine - the BOSE (I have tried 2 diffrerent headsets) emphasises >>> the higher pitched aprt of the engine noise? >> >>Despite opening myself up for advertising : >> >>I do ANR conversions for DC and Peltor type headsets. In >>my Europa I have two of these headsets - just cheap >>headsets, which have the conversion and which takle their >>power from the aircraft (no batteries).. >> >>Others on the Flyer Forum have tested these conversions >>and they report that they are better at noise reduction >>than the Bose. The Bose is VERY light but that allows >>extraneous noise in there. In fcat everyone raves about them ! >> >>I have done over 90 of these conversions so far. >> >>The advantage (other than the quietness) is that you don't >>end up with yet another headset ! >> >>Contact me direct if you are interested in more >>information - numbers in my signature -- >> >>Richard >>Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) >>Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax) >>Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) >>SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk >>Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross >>PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:52 PM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Radio reception --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" > > I can also vouch for the ANR headset conversions. I converted my own > Peltor headsets using a kit of parts. It was very easy and only took a > couple of hours. I too added the anr-headsets.com kit to an old Peltor 7004 that had been long gathering dust, because I was using the David Clark ANR, and I wanted to try something else. David Clarks are rather heavier than about anything, especially against Peltors, and the DC's tend to clamp tighter. The Peltor + ANR has different nuances in the audio effect than DC, and I slightly prefer DC overall, though they say many are a bit better now. But the comfort of the Peltor tips the scales easy for me. I also added to the Peltor the gel-filled ear seals, which improves things audio-wise and comfort. This is in an AA-5 whose cockpit noise is comparatively lower than similar planes, and the DC has the effect of letting in more valve train noise (higher freq). The Peltor + ANR seems less so, so it's possible this will work well in a Europa/Rotax. IOW, a comfy headset + affordable conversion kit. Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:52 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight N214KS --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Ken, I am so disappointed to have missed your first flight. I would have rented a 172 and flown down to see the grand event. Dave and Terry have flown up here to Redding for a visit and we shared burgers and stories enough to keep me going on my XS. Right now I am keeping my accountant/billpayer/spouse happy with a two month loop trip through OR, WA, Canada, MT (am presently in Glacier NP), WY, and UT. I should be back after the end of this month. So if you need a place to test your HOT! weather takeoffs and landing, please feel free to email me and I'll put on the burgers. Mike Duane XS Conventional Gear Really need to get back home and back to building! Do Not Archive