---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/27/05: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:48 AM - Re: Rotax 914 question? (Alan Burrows) 2. 04:11 AM - Re: Rotax 914 question? (Gilles Thesee) 3. 04:43 AM - Re: Rotax 914 question? (Alan Burrows) 4. 04:58 AM - Re: Rotax 914 question? (Gilles Thesee) 5. 02:36 PM - Re: Rotax 914 question? (Jim Brown) 6. 03:24 PM - Re: Rotax 914 question? (Gilles Thesee) 7. 08:15 PM - Re: Rotax 914 question? (Jim Thursby) 8. 10:05 PM - Reaction Time (DuaneFamly@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:48:07 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" This is all good stuff, but has anyone got any advice on my original question. Which was; is it necessary (or desirable) to reduce manifold pressure gradually in the decent prior to landing AND is it advisable to let the engine run for several minutes on the ground before shut down to allow the turbo to cool (with an oil supply) and if so how long? Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" --> Almost correct. It's intended to use European _standard_ mogas (95 Octane, often referred to confusingly as 'premium', but North American folks please we aware we measure Octane differently, quoting higher numbers for the same stuff). The _premium_ stuff (97 to 98, often called 'super') is not recommended for use in aircraft (some volatility issues at altitude, I believe). As an aside for the UK folks, rumours are currently rife that Shell is about to release V-Power here instead of the current Optimax - which means 99 or 100 Octane for your sports cars. Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" --> Yup think so - the engine as I understand it is designed for European premium mogas -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ivor.phillips Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" Thanks for that,! Another good reason to use unleaded if you can. Ivor Phillips XS486 London UK 100ll - because the premium mogas in Colombia where I live is only 91 > octane. > >> My turbo seized but not due to this - it seized from build up of >> carbon >> in >> the hot side - which I gather is pretty weird. After cleaning it worked >> fine. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:59 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee Alan Burrows a crit : >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" > >This is all good stuff, but has anyone got any advice on my original >question. Which was; is it necessary (or desirable) to reduce manifold >pressure gradually in the decent prior to landing AND is it advisable to >let the engine run for several minutes on the ground before shut down to >allow the turbo to cool (with an oil supply) and if so how long? > >Alan > > Alan, My previous post answered each point. I would suggest you read again your Rotax 914 owner manual. The answers are in it too. - 1 inch reduction during descent etc.. : this is all hangar tales and old women stories. While it is always advisable not to reduce power too abruptly, you may perform a cruise power descent with the 914. You may descend at any power setting you choose within the book recommendations. By the way, if your aircraft is reasonably sleek, you'll need to reduce power to achieve flap speed in the circuit. Not too abruptly though. Say 2 or three second to retard the throttle from cruise. - 5 minute idle before shutting down : for reasons already stated a turbo engine needs some idling before shut down. The book sez "a few minutes". So why five an not 6 or 4 ? It all depends on what you did with your engine before shut down. If you've just landed and taxied, you may just shut down when you're parked. Remember approach needs only very low power, and landing and taxiing can be performed at idle. So it is up to you : when you think your temperatures are stabilized, you can shut down. Hope this helps, Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:50 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Thanks Gilles I didn't get your earlier email for some reason, but than you for the information. I would love to consult my Rotax book, but never got one with the engine, but am now about to order one. Ok guys back to the fuel issue, sorry I interrupted :-) Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee --> Alan Burrows a crit : >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" >--> > >This is all good stuff, but has anyone got any advice on my original >question. Which was; is it necessary (or desirable) to reduce manifold >pressure gradually in the decent prior to landing AND is it advisable >to let the engine run for several minutes on the ground before shut >down to allow the turbo to cool (with an oil supply) and if so how >long? > >Alan > > Alan, My previous post answered each point. I would suggest you read again your Rotax 914 owner manual. The answers are in it too. - 1 inch reduction during descent etc.. : this is all hangar tales and old women stories. While it is always advisable not to reduce power too abruptly, you may perform a cruise power descent with the 914. You may descend at any power setting you choose within the book recommendations. By the way, if your aircraft is reasonably sleek, you'll need to reduce power to achieve flap speed in the circuit. Not too abruptly though. Say 2 or three second to retard the throttle from cruise. - 5 minute idle before shutting down : for reasons already stated a turbo engine needs some idling before shut down. The book sez "a few minutes". So why five an not 6 or 4 ? It all depends on what you did with your engine before shut down. If you've just landed and taxied, you may just shut down when you're parked. Remember approach needs only very low power, and landing and taxiing can be performed at idle. So it is up to you : when you think your temperatures are stabilized, you can shut down. Hope this helps, Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:42 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee > I would love to consult my Rotax book, but never got one >with the engine, but am now about to order one. > You can dowload the Rotax manuals at : http://www.kodiakbs.com/tiintro.htm I would strongly advise you register at the Rotax Owner mailing list to automaticaly receive the service letters and bulletins. FWIW, Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:46 PM PST US From: Jim Brown Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? --> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown Alen Allen in my normal cruise I run the 914 at 5300 RPM and 34" MP When I am about 10 minutes from landing I start to reduce the MP pressure one inch, then run about two minutes and reduce the MP another inch, and so on, until I'm at 28 or 29" MP. At this point the turbo is not producing any boost, and then it will start spooling down. By the time I land the turbo has cooled down to normal temp's and I shut down the engine, once I'm parked. Turbos generate a lot of heat when they are being used. I find its better for me to cool it down in the air rather than set on the ground and run the engine for five minutes, before shut down. Besides here in Florida ground running for 5 minutes with a heat soaked engine means the coolant will overflow!!!!!! Jim Brown N398JB Alan Burrows wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" > > This is all good stuff, but has anyone got any advice on my original > question. Which was; is it necessary (or desirable) to reduce manifold > pressure gradually in the decent prior to landing AND is it advisable to > let the engine run for several minutes on the ground before shut down to > allow the turbo to cool (with an oil supply) and if so how long? > > Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy > Davey > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > --> > > Almost correct. It's intended to use European _standard_ mogas (95 > Octane, often referred to confusingly as 'premium', but North American > folks please we aware we measure Octane differently, quoting higher > numbers for the same stuff). The _premium_ stuff (97 to 98, often called > 'super') is not recommended for use in aircraft (some volatility issues > at altitude, I believe). > > As an aside for the UK folks, rumours are currently rife that Shell is > about to release V-Power here instead of the current Optimax - which > means 99 or 100 Octane for your sports cars. > > Regards, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > PFA EC Member > "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it > is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail > done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with > airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 > turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, > switches, gizmos, and alarms > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William > Daniell > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" > --> > > Yup think so - the engine as I understand it is designed for European > premium mogas > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > ivor.phillips > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" > > > Thanks for that,! Another good reason to use unleaded if you can. Ivor > Phillips XS486 London UK > > 100ll - because the premium mogas in Colombia where I live is only 91 > > octane. > > > >> My turbo seized but not due to this - it seized from build up of > >> carbon > >> in > >> the hot side - which I gather is pretty weird. After cleaning it > worked > >> fine. > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:06 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee Jim Brown a crit : >--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown > >Alen > >Allen in my normal cruise I run the 914 at 5300 RPM and 34" MP > Jim and all, Those numbers correspond to rather high settings. While the engine may run at 100 % continuous, what is the point for a cruise above 75 % ? Here are excerpts from the 914 operator's manual : /100 % power is 5500 RPM / 35" 75 % power is 5000 RPM / 31" 65 % power is 4800 RPM / 29"/ /10.3.8) Engine shut-off Normally the cooling down of the engine during descending and taxiing will be sufficient to allow the engine to be shut off as soon as the aircraft is stopped. At increased operating temperatures continue to idle until temperature will drop to "normal operation level", see Chapter 10.1). Allow a cooling run of at least 1 min. as an engine shu-off at high temperature is especially harmful for the turbo charger. Carburizing oil might block the oil supply and firing in the muffler can occur. / FWIW, Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France/ / ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:15:35 PM PST US From: "Jim Thursby" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Thursby" Speed. And the 912/914 series longevity is based on 5,000 plus cruise rpm's It does NOTHING but save a little fuel running them lower. And carbon them up quicker. Jim T. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee --> Jim Brown a crit : >--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown > >Alen > >Allen in my normal cruise I run the 914 at 5300 RPM and 34" MP > Jim and all, Those numbers correspond to rather high settings. While the engine may run at 100 % continuous, what is the point for a cruise above 75 % ? Here are excerpts from the 914 operator's manual : /100 % power is 5500 RPM / 35" 75 % power is 5000 RPM / 31" 65 % power is 4800 RPM / 29"/ /10.3.8) Engine shut-off Normally the cooling down of the engine during descending and taxiing will be sufficient to allow the engine to be shut off as soon as the aircraft is stopped. At increased operating temperatures continue to idle until temperature will drop to "normal operation level", see Chapter 10.1). Allow a cooling run of at least 1 min. as an engine shu-off at high temperature is especially harmful for the turbo charger. Carburizing oil might block the oil supply and firing in the muffler can occur. / FWIW, Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France/ / ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:46 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Reaction Time --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Good day, Maybe a little off topic but not by much. Here's a little reaction test. Please put down your P's & Q's while testing. The best I got was Rocketing Rabbit. Try both hands, but one at a time. _http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/sheep/_ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sleep/sheep/) Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Catching up on many things.