---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/31/05: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:18 AM - Rotax 912? (Gert Dalgaard) 2. 02:24 AM - Re: A bit off topic, what happened? (Gilles Thesee) 3. 04:02 AM - Re: Rotax 912? (R.C.Harrison) 4. 04:29 AM - Re: Rotax 912? (Jeremy Davey) 5. 04:51 AM - Constant speed was Re: Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall (josok) 6. 04:51 AM - Re: Rotax 912? (Gert Dalgaard) 7. 04:55 AM - Re: Rotax 912? (Gert Dalgaard) 8. 05:04 AM - Re: Rotax 914 question? (Jim Thursby) 9. 06:23 AM - Re: Constant speed was Re: Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall (Kingsley Hurst) 10. 06:49 AM - Re: US registration (Al Stills) 11. 08:12 AM - Re: Rotax 912? (Gerry Holland) 12. 08:18 AM - Re: Constant speed was Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall (josok) 13. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: Constant speed was Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 14. 09:58 AM - Re: Re: Constant speed was Fuel smell 912S XS front (Gilles Thesee) 15. 10:37 AM - Re: Wednesday/Friday DOTH (David Joyce) 16. 01:14 PM - 912 fuel smell and Ariels (ctsmallwood) 17. 02:47 PM - PFA EC Elections (Jeremy Davey) 18. 03:43 PM - Re: Now Power and MAP settings with CS Props was Constant speed was Re: Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall (R.C.Harrison) 19. 06:05 PM - Re: Now Power and MAP settings with CS Props was Constant speed was Re: Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall (Kingsley Hurst) 20. 06:27 PM - Re: US registration (Craig Ellison) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:03 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 912? From: Gert Dalgaard 0.06 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY BODY: HTML contains text after BODY close tag --> Europa-List message posted by: Gert Dalgaard Hi One of my friends in Switzerland are restoring a Kitfox and need a 912 - preferably with some hours. Anyone plan to upgrade from ordinary 912 to 912S or 914 and want to sell? Regards Gert Gert Dalgaard Soerensen Stabelvej 9, Haarby DK 8660 Skanderborg Denmark Europa builder No. 151 Europa mono / Rotax 914 AC reg.: OY-GDS Phone.: +45 8695 0595 E mail: lgds@post6.tele.dk http://www.oy-reg.dk/billeder/l613.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:03 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: A bit off topic, what happened? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us a crit : >--> Europa-List message posted by: > >Anybody have insite what happened here? > >http://www.big-boys.com/articles/oldplanecrash.html > >Looks like right side stopped developing thrust? > >Ron Parigoris > > > Hmm, more likely a stall/spin event. The pitch attitude seems grossly excessive just after liftoff. Viewing the video one wants the crew to immediatly push the stick to dump the nose even before the right wing drops. Reading the comments one can see the event is supposed to concern a Caribou test flight at Gimli airport, Canada. Some say an elevator lock was left engaged. If this is confirmed, it seems consistent with the aircraft behaviour on the video. FWIW Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:03 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 912? --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Gert What about a 3300 Jabiru !!! Regards Bob H G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gert Dalgaard Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 912? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gert Dalgaard Hi One of my friends in Switzerland are restoring a Kitfox and need a 912 - preferably with some hours. Anyone plan to upgrade from ordinary 912 to 912S or 914 and want to sell? Regards Gert Gert Dalgaard Soerensen Stabelvej 9, Haarby DK 8660 Skanderborg Denmark Europa builder No. 151 Europa mono / Rotax 914 AC reg.: OY-GDS Phone.: +45 8695 0595 E mail: lgds@post6.tele.dk http://www.oy-reg.dk/billeder/l613.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:43 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 912? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Youre not thinking of changing to a Rotax, are you, Bob? Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 912? --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Gert What about a 3300 Jabiru !!! Regards Bob H G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gert Dalgaard Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 912? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gert Dalgaard Hi One of my friends in Switzerland are restoring a Kitfox and need a 912 - preferably with some hours. Anyone plan to upgrade from ordinary 912 to 912S or 914 and want to sell? Regards Gert Gert Dalgaard Soerensen Stabelvej 9, Haarby DK 8660 Skanderborg Denmark Europa builder No. 151 Europa mono / Rotax 914 AC reg.: OY-GDS Phone.: +45 8695 0595 E mail: lgds@post6.tele.dk http://www.oy-reg.dk/billeder/l613.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:24 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Constant speed was RE: Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall From: "josok" 1.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty 0.10 TO_EMPTY To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" This makes me realize, that constant speed prop governors are just that. They obviously do not take the power curve of an engine in account at all. If you look at the power and torque curves of the 912s and 914 it is clear that at low power (fuel consumption) settings 5000 rpm is far from optimal. It is really inefficient, more fuel burn, more wear. A real improvement would be if there would be a more intelligent unit, which would reduce rpm, to stay in line with the best map. Is there anything available like that or would i have to make it myself? Regards, Jos Okhuijsen ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:24 AM PST US From: Gert Dalgaard Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 912? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gert Dalgaard Well, Bob.... I will tell him about your proposal, but I think he will go for the Rotax. By the way - you know him - it's Kurt Schumacher - the ATC guy who was in the "tower" at Raron, Switzerland last week.... Regards Gert Den 31/08/2005 kl. 12.22 skrev R.C.Harrison: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" > > > Hi! Gert > What about a 3300 Jabiru !!! > Regards > Bob H G-PTAG > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-eu ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:33 AM PST US From: Gert Dalgaard Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 912? --> Europa-List message posted by: Gert Dalgaard Bob changing engine!!!! It will snow in hell before Bob changes that engine.... :-) Regards Gert OY-GDS Den 31/08/2005 kl. 13.29 skrev Jeremy Davey: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > > Youre not thinking of changing to a Rotax, are you, Bob? > > Regards, > Jeremy ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:51 AM PST US From: "Jim Thursby" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Thursby" So you would rather use logic (however derived) rather than company specifications to dictate how you use a product? Sounds very "British" to me! Check the Rotax specs, As stated "max continuous speed 5,500RPM". Look carefully at the bore to stroke ratio on a 914 and do the math. Somebody stated a Lycoming was in it's "sweet spot" at 3,000RPM? What makes you think an engine with close to 1/2 the bore and about 1/2 the stroke would be happy at only 4,000RPM? I know your WALLET is happier at 4,000RPM but that has no logical bearing on what keeps the engine happy. Most owners don't run their birds like a flight school Katana either now do they? Read the good book my friend. And of the three different 914 Europa's I flew with a combined total of around 2,300 hours on them we can throw Jim Browns 914 into the mix and we have 3,000 operating hours on 914's. Garry Stouts bird also has close to 500 hours last I knew and he isn't easy on his either. There is a little "proper evidence to the contrary" not dictated by gas prices. Best Regards Jim T. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" --> But I've not experienced that for the short durations that I've used 100LL and would have expected that to have occurred logically at any engine speed; more so at higher power settings when there is more lead going into the engine. In fact logic is my guiding principle in the absence of proper evidence to the contrary! How's your 1000 hours at 5000rpm going? Will you make TBO? Katanas don't! Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Thursby" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Thursby" > > > Don't know about your source but the person I trusted (as did many others > including Rotax) to keep me informed about the Rotax engines always stated > "the 912/914 series engine is happiest and will get the best longevity > ABOVE > 5,000 RPM in the cruise". He is now gone as of July of this year but his > experience was trusted enough that Kodiak research and Rotax called him to > assist in product development. Glen had forgotten more about Rotax > engines > than most of us could ever learn. He never steered me or anyone I know > wrong, and I trusted his opinions and ideas about these engines with my > life > on more than one occasion. > Oh, and you WILL foul plugs on 100 LL and reduced power settings > eventually. Or put up with the auto gas smell. Or have to add TCP all > the > time. When you have 1,000 plus hours on a 912/914 come back and let us > know how you're doing. Keep an eye on the gearbox too. > > Jim T. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Duncan > McFadyean > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" > --> > > OK, I'll bite! > I cruise at about 4,000rpm. And have done for over 200 hours of use, > excepting climb-out at 4,800 and the odd spurt to see how fast it will go. > The plugs are squeaky-clean. The piston crowns are quite clean. There is > no > loss of compression or performance that suggests that the piston rings are > coked. The engine uses virtually no oil between changes and the oil > discolouration is mid brown colour at 100 hours. > Our local Rotax dealer commented flippantly that at these speeds the > engine > would 'last forever'! > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:07 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Constant speed was RE: Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > A real improvement would be if there would be a more intelligent unit, > which would reduce rpm, to stay in line with the best map. Is there > anything available like that or would i have to make it myself? Jos, This is exactly what the constant speed propeller does. Just set the MAP with the throttle and the RPM with the propeller controller. When Cliff said he was flying with a low MAP and 5000 RPM, his engine is developing a certain percentage of power with low torque. The same power setting can be had with a higher MAP and lower RPM but with more torque. The combinations are almost endless. Regards Kingsley in Oz. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:17 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: US registration From: "Al Stills" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Al Stills" Craig, I ran into the same problem when I registered mine. It wound up that I sent a copy of the invoice from Europa USA and a letter of explanation detailing the demise of Europa and Europa USA. They went ahead and registered it.(BTW-went to great lengths to explain this was not a flying aircraft but a kit I was building). Al Stills N625AZ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 912? From: Gerry Holland --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland Gert Hi! from UK > One of my friends in Switzerland are restoring a Kitfox and need a > 912 - preferably with some hours. > Anyone plan to upgrade from ordinary 912 to 912S or 914 and want to > sell? I have Graham Singletons rebuilt 912 Engine that I may upgrade after a few hours of flight starting in October. It was completely rebuilt after the Air Accident Inspection after Graham coolant explosion. SkyDrive, Main UK Rotax Dealer did a great job including renewing all hoses, fitted Carb Heat totalling 5000 of work and replacement parts. Is your friend in a hurry for a 912? It may come up for sale by end of year with 150 hours used towards a TBO of 1500 hours. Cannot promise it will be sold because if it performs well with CS Prop it's worth keeping. Kind Regards Gerry ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:52 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: Constant speed was Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall From: "josok" 1.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty 0.10 TO_EMPTY To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" As i understand from Cliff, the rpm is not reduced but stays at 5000. That is with the preselect setting at cruise. The rest seems to be a manual job, little better then full manual, which is a far from ideal situation. What i am after is a governor that selects the best rpm and map settings at a certain power setting from the many available combinations. I would expect from an intelligent controller to do the difficult stuff, like finding the best setting out of all combinations of rpm, map and throttle settings, maybe even based on fuel flow. It's like the difference between a wing leveler and a state of the art autopilot. ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:55 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: Constant speed was Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" The Airmaster prop controller supports many modes of operation, including; 1) Preset constants speeds for TakeOff (~5700 rpm), climb (~5500 rpm), and cruise (~5000 rpm). 2) Hold (in auto mode), which allows you to select (via a toggle switch) any rpm you choose for constant speed operation. I suppose there is a lower limit to the selectable rpms, but I believe it can go down to 4000 rpm. 3) Manual mode, which creates an air-adjustable-pitch prop. 4) Feather mode, which should be self explanatory. It sounds like you want mode 2) which allows constant speed operation at any rpm you choose. Making the controller automatically set rpm's relative to MAP/altitude/etc sounds like a fun project, why don't you build one? A PIC microprocessor and some code, a little interface circuitry, ...piece of cake. Regards, Terry Seaver A135 / N135TD -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of josok Subject: Europa-List: RE: Constant speed was Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" As i understand from Cliff, the rpm is not reduced but stays at 5000. That is with the preselect setting at cruise. The rest seems to be a manual job, little better then full manual, which is a far from ideal situation. What i am after is a governor that selects the best rpm and map settings at a certain power setting from the many available combinations. I would expect from an intelligent controller to do the difficult stuff, like finding the best setting out of all combinations of rpm, map and throttle settings, maybe even based on fuel flow. It's like the difference between a wing leveler and a state of the art autopilot. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:40 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Constant speed was Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee josok a crit : >--> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" > >As i understand from Cliff, the rpm is not reduced but stays at 5000. That is with the preselect setting at cruise. The rest seems to be a manual job, little better then full manual, which is a far from ideal situation. >What i am after is a governor that selects the best rpm and map settings at a certain power setting from the many available combinations. I would expect from an intelligent controller to do the difficult stuff, like finding the best setting out of all combinations of rpm, map and throttle settings, maybe even based on fuel flow. >It's like the difference between a wing leveler and a state of the art autopilot. > > Hi Josok, What you're looking for is named Full Authority Digital Engine Controler (FADEC). We all dream of this Holy Grail of engine controlers, but it is something really hard to develop. It should take into account MAP, RPM, Fuel Flow, throttle setting, but also outer air temperature, engine temps and cowl flap position, pressure altitude, airspeed, flap configuration, engine curves, prop, aircraft, etc. Many many measurement points and curves, many many hours of development. Some degree of redundancy and electrical backup should be built into it, as well as manual overrides of different kinds. Add a few hundred bench and test flight hours and you'll be done. But...chances are this critter will cost more than the engine when and if someone were to develop it for small airplanes. Some manufacturers had a try at it (Continental, Thielert), but they are still in the development stage, with some weird behaviour in the "corners" of the flight envelope. Weight, cost and reliability are still an issue. To date a suitably qualified and proficient pilot is still the lightest, cheapest and most reliable FADEC. That is...when he sets his engine by the book ;-) FWIW, Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:24 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wednesday/Friday DOTH --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" Bryan, Fine. Caernarfon for Friday lunch it is (weather willing) Regards, David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wednesday/Friday DOTH > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" > > Hi David, > > I totally understand your priorities in life. Golf comes first eh? Just glad > you didn't suggest Thursday. > > I have discussed the problem with Richard, and he is up for doing one on > Wednesday, and one on Friday. Seems like a good idea. > > The outcome is that we have elected to do Panshanger (pilot freebie) on > Wednesday, and Caernarfon on Friday. Caernarfon is not a freebie, but it is > a nice place, and the butties are excellent. > > Hope that suits all. > > Cheers. Bryan > > > > Bryan, I am up for a DOTH on Friday (Weds is golf!), and could deliver > > your > > Tour de France wine and Mark B's also if we can arrange a suitable > > destination. Regards, David > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > How to respond to a major incident - essential training for all UK doctors > http://www.doctors.net.uk/bioterrorism > _______________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:48 PM PST US From: "ctsmallwood" Subject: Europa-List: 912 fuel smell and Ariels --> Europa-List message posted by: "ctsmallwood" Hi All Thanks to all for your help with the fuel odour' Test pilot seams OK although still reporting at climb the odd whiff Next visit to the garage I will add the drains to the Airbox(Thanks John and Paddy) The one outstanding problem for the flight test is the Transceiver. Micro Air 760 Linked to Sigtronics I/com .Europa Dipole in Fin inter com OK, receiver OK but today could not transmit to Sheffield,Birmingham or Notts EM.All views greatly appreciated Regards Colin Smallwood ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:58 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: Europa-List: PFA EC Elections --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" (Sorry, non-UK folks, but once again this is an email only of any interest to the UK folks. Please accept my apologies for the intrusion, hit delete and move on to much more interesting things like DOTHs, fuel smells, and how to look after your Rotax/Jabiru/Wilksch!) There is a matter related to the PFA EC elections that I think I need to bring to your attention. Whether we like it or not, the PFA and the BMAA currently compete for a segment of the Permit aircraft market. It dates back to a regulatory change which raised the upper weight limit for microlights and meant that there was now an overlap. A Gentlemen=92s Agreement between the two organisations at that time to avoid competition has not moved forward as the light aircraft world has moved forward, and we now have the current situation where the PFA and BMAA are indeed in competition. I should say at this point that I personally would be in favour of a merger of the two so that we could concentrate all efforts on moving our aviating forward. Indeed, we already have many members in common! As you may have read in the latest Popular Flying, there are 8 candidates for 6 places on the EC. You may also know that one of the candidates is the current Chairman of the BMAA, having recently stood down and put himself forward for re-election. While I personally get on very well with Keith Negal, and believe he would be an excellent candidate if he were not a senior BMAA activist, I am deeply concerned about the conflict of interest that would occur if he were elected. The vast majority of the current EC share my concerns. I want to ask you to consider this carefully when casting your vote, something I strongly encourage you to do _whoever_ you choose to support. There are also candidates I would like to ask for your particular support for. As well as the existing EC members standing for re-election who have contributed to the Association, Barry Plumb is well known and his engineering knowledge would be a great asset, while Lord Robin Rotherwick, a past EC member, has been very helpful to us in our lobbying efforts =96 efforts which are now bearing fruit. But above all, please vote! We need an EC which is representative of the members=92 wishes! Kind regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94 Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:50 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List:Now Power and MAP settings with CS Props was Constant speed was RE: Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Kingsley/all That is probably why Jabiru "cocked a deaf ear" when I was trying to find an economical power setting on my 3300/MT CS Prop combination. All they needed to do was a Dyno run with a few differing RPM's and MAP settings on differing ambient pressure days to provide some power output comparison graphs. I'm still waiting but I suspect that the ultimate power truth would have then been plain for all to see! Perhaps they wish that I'd been holding my breath all this time !!!!! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst Subject: Re: Europa-List: Constant speed was RE: Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > A real improvement would be if there would be a more intelligent unit, > which would reduce rpm, to stay in line with the best map. Is there > anything available like that or would i have to make it myself? Jos, This is exactly what the constant speed propeller does. Just set the MAP with the throttle and the RPM with the propeller controller. When Cliff said he was flying with a low MAP and 5000 RPM, his engine is developing a certain percentage of power with low torque. The same power setting can be had with a higher MAP and lower RPM but with more torque. The combinations are almost endless. Regards Kingsley in Oz. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:11 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List:Now Power and MAP settings with CS Props was Constant speed was RE: Fuel smell 912S XS front fire wall --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > All they needed to do was a Dyno run with a few differing RPM's and MAP > settings on differing ambient pressure days to provide some power output > comparison graphs. I'm still waiting but I suspect that the ultimate > power truth would have then been plain for all to see! Good-day Bob, With no disrespect for Jabiru, I have to admit the impression I get from speaking to others is that Jabiru tend to treat people like mushrooms ! If you know what I mean ! In view of the amount of flying you do, would it not be possible to try many combinations of MAP and RPM Vs airspeed, fuel flow etc logging the results in order to compile your performance graph ? I guess it would be a long drawn out process but at least your figures should end up representing the "real world". Do not archive. Cheers Kingsley ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:27:18 PM PST US From: "Craig Ellison" Subject: Re: Europa-List: US registration --> Europa-List message posted by: "Craig Ellison" Thanks Kevin,Bill and Al for the help on US registration. I'll try any and all if necessary. craig ellison ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin And Ann Klinefelter" Subject: Re: Europa-List: US registration > --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter > > > I got mine from Europa FL back in the day. Ask Andy, you may have to > send him the form to sign, AC form 8050-2 > > Kevin, N211KA > > Craig Ellison wrote: > >>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Craig Ellison" >> >> >>All US builders, >> >>I'm at the point to start the registration process and looking over the >>forms they want a Bill of Sale. I don't think I ever got one from the >>former Europa when I purchased my kit. What have other builders used to >>satisfy FAA on this point? Can I get one from the current Europa? >> >>Thanks in advance for all responses. >> >>Craig Ellison >>A205 >>Silverton, OR >>Flying surfaces done, FWF done,Fuselage in paint shop, finishing up panel >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Duncan McFadyean" >>To: >>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? >> >> >> >> >>>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" >>> >>> >>><> >>> >>>Not disputed. This is a problem on the Katanas too; only they are >>>generally >>>not run at low speeds, because of there frequent use as training >>>machines. >>>But I've not experienced that for the short durations that I've used >>>100LL >>>and would have expected that to have occurred logically at any engine >>>speed; >>>more so at higher power settings when there is more lead going into the >>>engine. >>> >>>In fact logic is my guiding principle in the absence of proper evidence >>>to >>>the contrary! >>> >>>How's your 1000 hours at 5000rpm going? Will you make TBO? Katanas don't! >>> >>>Duncan McF. >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Jim Thursby" >>>To: >>>Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Thursby" >>>> >>>> >>>>Don't know about your source but the person I trusted (as did many >>>>others >>>>including Rotax) to keep me informed about the Rotax engines always >>>>stated >>>>"the 912/914 series engine is happiest and will get the best longevity >>>>ABOVE >>>>5,000 RPM in the cruise". He is now gone as of July of this year but >>>>his >>>>experience was trusted enough that Kodiak research and Rotax called him >>>>to >>>>assist in product development. Glen had forgotten more about Rotax >>>>engines >>>>than most of us could ever learn. He never steered me or anyone I know >>>>wrong, and I trusted his opinions and ideas about these engines with my >>>>life >>>>on more than one occasion. >>>>Oh, and you WILL foul plugs on 100 LL and reduced power settings >>>>eventually. Or put up with the auto gas smell. Or have to add TCP all >>>>the >>>>time. When you have 1,000 plus hours on a 912/914 come back and let us >>>>know how you're doing. Keep an eye on the gearbox too. >>>> >>>> Jim T. >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >>>>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Duncan >>>>McFadyean >>>>To: europa-list@matronics.com >>>>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 914 question? >>>> >>>>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" >>>>--> >>>> >>>>OK, I'll bite! >>>>I cruise at about 4,000rpm. And have done for over 200 hours of use, >>>>excepting climb-out at 4,800 and the odd spurt to see how fast it will >>>>go. >>>>The plugs are squeaky-clean. The piston crowns are quite clean. There is >>>>no >>>>loss of compression or performance that suggests that the piston rings >>>>are >>>>coked. The engine uses virtually no oil between changes and the oil >>>>discolouration is mid brown colour at 100 hours. >>>>Our local Rotax dealer commented flippantly that at these speeds the >>>>engine >>>>would 'last forever'! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > >