---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/17/05: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:14 AM - Re: to Tom Lowsley Re:XS tri-gear project for sale (R.C.Harrison) 2. 01:32 AM - Re: to Tom Lowsley Re:XS tri-gear project for sale (BEBERRY@aol.com) 3. 02:48 AM - Re: Monowheel Upstop? (David Joyce) 4. 07:01 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 09/16/05 (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 5. 07:01 AM - Re: ENGINES! (Jim Thursby) 6. 08:28 AM - Fwf Prices (KARL HEINDL) 7. 09:18 AM - Re: ENGINES! (Garry) 8. 10:16 AM - Re: Fwf Prices (BEBERRY@aol.com) 9. 10:29 AM - Re: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) (josok) 10. 10:53 AM - Re: Re: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) (BEBERRY@aol.com) 11. 11:15 AM - Re: Re: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) (Cliff Shaw) 12. 11:36 AM - Re: Re: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) (BEBERRY@aol.com) 13. 12:54 PM - Re: DOTH Sun 18th (Duncan McFadyean) 14. 01:06 PM - Re: Monowheel Upstop? (Kevin And Ann Klinefelter) 15. 01:14 PM - Re: *** SPAM *** 914 Filter & Oshkosh (Duncan McFadyean) 16. 01:32 PM - Re: ENGINES! (Kevin And Ann Klinefelter) 17. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) (R.C.Harrison) 18. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 09/16/05 (JEFF ROBERTS) 19. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) (BEBERRY@AOL.COM) 20. 02:58 PM - Re: Fwf Prices (Timothy.P.Ward) 21. 02:58 PM - Re: Fwf Prices (Timothy.P.Ward) 22. 03:43 PM - Re: Fwf Prices (KARL HEINDL) 23. 03:51 PM - Re: Re: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) (N55XS) 24. 03:53 PM - Re: Fwf Prices (N55XS) 25. 03:55 PM - Re: Re: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) (KARL HEINDL) 26. 04:55 PM - Re: Re: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) (Andrew Sarangan) 27. 05:00 PM - Fwf prices (KARL HEINDL) 28. 05:46 PM - Re: Monowheel Upstop? (Steve Hagar) 29. 06:01 PM - Re: Monowheel Upstop? (Steve Hagar) 30. 06:36 PM - Re: Fwf Prices (Paul McAllister) 31. 07:23 PM - Re: ENGINES! (Steve Hagar) 32. 09:29 PM - Re: ENGINES! (Cliff Shaw) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:07 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: to Tom Lowsley re:XS tri-gear project for sale --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Milt/Mike Respectfully .....how long is it since you bought anything in GBP and had it to covert to USD ? You are just a tad out currently running at approx 1.82USD Dollars to the GB Pound. So you are about 10% out and that is a big margin from where I'm sat. You are very right about making "apples to apples" comparison though. With the necessity of a radiator etc. the Rotax has some hidden extras. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Milt Black Subject: RE: Europa-List: to Tom Lowsley re:XS tri-gear project for sale --> Europa-List message posted by: "Milt Black" Hi Mike, To get an up-to-date price comparison I suggest you contact Andy Sylvester at Suncoast Sportplanes in Florida. E-mail . Being the Jab dealer, he can quote the exact prices for the engine and the firewall forward kit. Incidentally, this new cowling/kit is really nice, better aesthetically, better cooling,ctc. It looks very similar to the front end of the Lancair. Being his main competitor, and located practically next store to a Europa dealer, I'm sure that he can quote you "chapter-and-verse", or come awfully close to what the Eupopa firewall fwd and Rotax would cost. Or, get on the Europa web page. I believe prices are quoted. Just make sure that you convert pounds to dollars. I believe it's about one to two, One pound equaling two dollars. Also,get a list of what is included in each kit and engine package, to make sure that you're comparing "apples to apples". Good hunting! Milt Black -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: to Tom Lowsley re:XS tri-gear project for sale --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Milt, One item of interest to many of those that might be thinking of an alternative is price. When all is said and done.....what would be the typical cost of a Jabiru 3300 power plant with FWF kit compared to a Rotax 912S power plant with FWF kit? Here in the States. Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear -- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:40 AM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: to Tom Lowsley re:XS tri-gear project for sale --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com =A31 is near enough 1.8 dollars ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:49 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel Upstop? --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" Ron, You also could give some thought to the possibility that one day you might land with gear up, and if wiring isn't off to the side or protected by a fairly solid stop it is liable to be destroyed! As to the effect of turbulence I think the more serious possibility is that inertial forces pulling down on the U/C mass will open up the angle between that and the gear lever, and you will then find great difficulty in getting the U/C down and locked - Happened to me flying through some rotor over Welsh mountains on a windy day. The Europa Mod putting a strut across that angle goes some way to address that possibility. Regards, David ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel Upstop? > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > Just got the gear lever gates installed. > > When positioned in the up gate the swingarm is even with the bottom of > fuse. If I push up on the swingarm, to simulate negative Gs, the caliper > mashes into the rudder cables and also hits a starbord rudder guide. > > These bad things happen if I push up bout 3/4" > > I am thinking to install a up stop on the port side of the tunnel just > forward of the airbrake horn, made of 1/4 tufnal and contacting the > swingarm just where the swingarm is closest to the tunnel. Position would > where tire needs to be raised about 1/4" to contact this stop. > > Comments? > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > How to respond to a major incident - essential training for all UK doctors > http://www.doctors.net.uk/bioterrorism > _______________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:27 AM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 09/16/05 --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com In a message dated 9/17/2005 2:57:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes: > And you forgot to mention that those "in the Colonies" are soon going to > have to look at engine efficiencies especially since the Katrina problem > and they snatched all our reserves and caused the prices to escalate. Oil supply isn't the problem. A HUGE oil field was recently discovered in Colorado, Wyoming and Montana, said to possibly rival that of Saudi Arabia. Similar finds have been made in the Gulf of Mexico off the coast of Tampa, FL, and off the southern coast of California. We have plenty of crude. Refining capacity is the problem here in the USA. Thanks to the Greenies, no new refineries have been built since 1976. Several of the refineries and major pipelines in Louisianna were taken off line due to power outages in the wake of Katrina which caused spot shortages and caused the spike in gasoline and diesel prices. All are back up and running and gasoline prices are falling every day. Besides, we "snatched" nothing from your reserves. You offered it. DO NOT ARCHIVE John Lawton Dunlap, TN A-245 (Finishing up the very straightforward installation of a Jabiru 3300 with a Suncoast Sportplanes FWF package) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:27 AM PST US From: "Jim Thursby" Subject: RE: Europa-List: ENGINES! --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Thursby" And learn to use the caps key. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SPurpura@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! --> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com THIS FORUM IS MEANT FOR EUROPA BUILDERS & OWNERS. IF YOU ARE SELLING AN ENGINE YOU SHUOULD PAY MATRONICS FOR YOUR ADVERTIZING OR PLACE AN ADD IN THE MAGAZINES AND LEAVE US TO OUR AIRCRAFT. SAM N77EU ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:30 AM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Nigel, Very good engine summary. I was always glad I chose the obvious: a 912S, and a trigear. A quick comparison on prices for fwf kits: according to Andy the Jabiru kit is $ 18,100; I assume that includes every nut and bolt, and assuming a current exchange rate of 1.8 for the Rotax kits I see that the 912S kit is an additional $ 2,500, not the end of the world. But then you look at the 914, and it is an extra 50%, a whopping $ 9000. It is ideal for high alltitude cruising and obviously aimed at this specialized market. For a long time the 914 was the only alternative to the 912, but when the 912S version came out, it in my opinion made the 914 largely obsolete. I get the impression that many builders are in a very high income bracket, and spending an extra ten or even twenty grand means nothing to them (i.e. airline pilots, whether current or retired). p.s. the Rotax kit prices on the Europa website may not include the Warp Drive propeller, as none are listed. I remember, when I bought my kit, the prop was included, and every nut and bolt and rivet. Karl ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:37 AM PST US From: "Garry" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" I totally disagree with Sam N77EU. As an owner and builder I am constantly looking for information on products and accessories related to the Europa. I encourage vendors of Europa products to contribute to this forum, and thus keep us informed on what's available and how it performs. In particular, Andy Sylvester of Jabiru has done a marvelous job of educating us all on the merits, performance, costs, etc. of the Jabiru engine. Thanks Andy! For those of you who want to keep your heads buried in the sand, there is something on your keyboard called a delete key. Garry Stout ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! > --> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com > > THIS FORUM IS MEANT FOR EUROPA BUILDERS & OWNERS. > IF YOU ARE SELLING AN ENGINE YOU SHUOULD PAY MATRONICS > FOR YOUR ADVERTIZING OR PLACE AN ADD > IN THE MAGAZINES AND LEAVE US TO OUR AIRCRAFT. > SAM N77EU > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:55 AM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com The question that has not been answered is the reliability of the 912S against the 914. Remember that the 914 is a turbo charged 912 whilst the 912 S is a 912 with a much enhanced compession ratio, leading, all things being equal to much greater stress on all engine components. The 914 has not been in operation long enough to give proper comparisons but I suspect that the 914, properly maintained and operated with proper care will prove the much longer lasting engine. Those of an engineering persuasion may care to comment? Patrick ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:29:30 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) From: "josok" 1.41 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" Araldite 420 + flox has more flexibility then epoxy + flox. I guess in this application araldite is the better choice. Secondly, i don't think that araldite will age much quicker once opened. In my case, i had to order an extra set of araldite anyhow, because i was running short just a bit. I think with saving i could have managed, but i would have to live with the eternal question: Was it good enough? Regards, Jos Okhuijsen ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:07 AM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com I have had a couple of replies to my previous question of how to fit a left hand throttle. Neither of those received seemed very satisfactory and I wonder if there are any other ideas around, or even mods that have already been approved. Has anyone tried a simple Bowden Cable from a left to existing right hand throttle - it would have to attach below the pivot point to the left and above to the right, thus moving both in unison.? I have seen a similar arrangement in a Pulsar, that worked well. If this could be done, does anyone have any detail of how to fix a throttle box and lever on the port side wall? I admit to being a novice at working in glass or indeed any composites. I think that the present basic situation of flying with the left hand and using the right for the throttle is unnatural for most people and would welcome more ideas to resolve this issue. Patrick. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:09 AM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Patrick I had the thinking when I first started building my Europa. But now that I have seen lots of cockpits and flown my "Wile E. Coyote" for a couple of years, I find that the left hand learned what to do very well. The right hand is the busiest hand . It works the GPS, radio, transponder, EFIS, engine monitor, and coffee cup. I know that you must make the throttle control move very smoothly. It needs to be able to make very small adjustment in throttle settings when landing. Hope this helps. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE ----- Original Message ----- From: BEBERRY@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com I have had a couple of replies to my previous question of how to fit a left hand throttle. Neither of those received seemed very satisfactory and I wonder if there are any other ideas around, or even mods that have already been approved. Has anyone tried a simple Bowden Cable from a left to existing right hand throttle - it would have to attach below the pivot point to the left and above to the right, thus moving both in unison.? I have seen a similar arrangement in a Pulsar, that worked well. If this could be done, does anyone have any detail of how to fix a throttle box and lever on the port side wall? I admit to being a novice at working in glass or indeed any composites. I think that the present basic situation of flying with the left hand and using the right for the throttle is unnatural for most people and would welcome more ideas to resolve this issue. Patrick. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:49 AM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com Thanks for the comments Cliff. I am as yet very inexperienced in the aeroplane and perhaps I will get the knack eventually. Patrick ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:43 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Sun 18th --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" Where exactly is Lower Upham strip? (no info. anywhere). Duncan McF. do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paddy Clarke" Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Sun 18th > --> Europa-List message posted by: Paddy Clarke > > Hi All, > Anyone interested in a DOTH to the Wiltshire PFA Flyers fly-in at Lower > Upham on Sun.?. BBQ from 10.30. Briefing from Dudley Pattison on 0799 > 097 6393 - I've never been there. > Cheers > Paddy Clarke > > Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:02 PM PST US From: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel Upstop? --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter Hi Ron, Somebody came up with a good up stop design that involves installing a couple of tufnol blocks to the swing arm so that they hit the shock absorber bottom plate in the up position. Was that Steve Hager? Anyway I insalled 3/4 inch blocks of tufnol by ruduxing them between the inside of the swing arm and the LG02A. Seems to make for a very solid up stop, though I'm not sure what would happen in a gear up landing. With the wheel off and the swing arm up weasure the space between the swing arm and the LG07. The blocks, one on each side of the LG02A need to be exactly the right hight to stop the swing arm where you want it, flush with the fuse bottom. Its pretty easy to make a couple blocks and test it out, see what you think. Kevin rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: > >Just got the gear lever gates installed. > >When positioned in the up gate the swingarm is even with the bottom of >fuse. If I push up on the swingarm, to simulate negative Gs, the caliper >mashes into the rudder cables and also hits a starbord rudder guide. > >These bad things happen if I push up bout 3/4" > >I am thinking to install a up stop on the port side of the tunnel just >forward of the airbrake horn, made of 1/4 tufnal and contacting the >swingarm just where the swingarm is closest to the tunnel. Position would >where tire needs to be raised about 1/4" to contact this stop. > >Comments? > >Thx. >Ron Parigoris > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:55 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: *** SPAM *** Europa-List: 914 Filter & Oshkosh --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: *** SPAM *** Europa-List: 914 Filter & Oshkosh > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" > > While I had my lower cowling off to give it bigger nostrils up front for > better cooling I took note how nice it would be to have a feature inside > to register against the end of the air filter. I haven't started the > motor yet but have noticed that the filter attachment could be > problematic. I have had it loosen up after sitting for months in the > garage. No doubt some sort of creep or flow going on with the material. > Now if the lower cowling had a flat surfaced feature to butt against the > end of the air filter the clamp would only have to suffice for a seal and > not as an attachment device for a cantilever. Has anyone done this yet? > If you have found an elegant way to get the right dimension give me a > heads up. If I don't hear from anyone I'll have to go to my old standby > for figuring it out. I do my best thinnking on this type of issue by > wandering up and down the aisles of Home Depot. Looking at all the stuff > on the shelves and racks eventually sets the lighbulb off > on how to custom fab something. I have made some very passable outrigger / > landing light fairing molds out of adhesive backed foam and electrical > tape gathered on my wanderings. > > The trip out to Oshkosh and back in E. Trombley's Europa reconfirmed that > I made a good decision to go with the Europa and also to go for the 914. > The seating was more comfortable than my car (I'm 6 ft, 200#) my back > gets stiff in the car, I was not stiff after 4 hr legs in the plane. My > seats were modeled after Erich's after he sent me some photos. With the > wing leveler turned on we could have slept most of the way home. Weather > was bad on the way there had to fly real low and had to watch out for > nasty stuff like real tall TV towers rising terrain etc. The engine > hummed like a sewing machine all trip. We probably could have done it in > a day if the weather was good and got a real early start. > > The turbo adds a startling amount of versatility, on the the trip back > home we were at 6500 ft. indicating 120 kts airspeed and 80 kts gps ground > speed. We elevatored up to 14500 ft. looking for more favorable winds > and eventually found a spot where we got about 130 kts groundspeed. Going > over the Rockies was just a short jump. All this on about a 5 gal/hr > burn rate, with a fixed pitch prop and with the outriggers down. > (electrically actuated that fold completely inboard into the wing but > left down because of burned out motor). > > The trip was just what I needed to get kicked in gear to finish N40SH. > Perhaps it will be ready to fly to Sun n Fun in primer? > > Steve Hagar > Mesa, AZ > > > Steve Hagar > hagargs@earthlink.net > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:59 PM PST US From: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter I agree. Its good to hear the pros and cons of the engine choices, even though I already bought a 914 and am completing the install now. My home airport is at 4120 feet and summer temps reach 110 F. Lets see, thats uh, pretty high desity altitude. And I look forward to being able to cruise up to 18000 and take advantage of higher true airspeeds. Plus I just like cruising way up there. With the Jabiru 3300 producing 127 hp at 3300 rpm (correct?) and 3300 rpm being too fast for a given prop (correct?), what is the max rpm and HP for a 3300 and best prop combo, on a Europa mono-wheel? Just curious... Kevin N211KA, still workin on it... Garry wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" > >I totally disagree with Sam N77EU. As an owner and builder I am constantly >looking for information on products and accessories related to the Europa. >I encourage vendors of Europa products to contribute to this forum, and thus >keep us informed on what's available and how it performs. In particular, >Andy Sylvester of Jabiru has done a marvelous job of educating us all on the >merits, performance, costs, etc. of the Jabiru engine. Thanks Andy! For >those of you who want to keep your heads buried in the sand, there is >something on your keyboard called a delete key. > >Garry Stout > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! > > > > >>--> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com >> >>THIS FORUM IS MEANT FOR EUROPA BUILDERS & OWNERS. >>IF YOU ARE SELLING AN ENGINE YOU SHUOULD PAY MATRONICS >>FOR YOUR ADVERTIZING OR PLACE AN ADD >>IN THE MAGAZINES AND LEAVE US TO OUR AIRCRAFT. >>SAM N77EU >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:19 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Patrick I have always naturally been right handed however I have adapted to the stick control with the left with total instinctive ease. There is no way I would have my right hand doing anything but multipurpose functions, mostly throttle, and similarly I wouldn't have the right hand involved with finger brakes when you have two instinctive legs on the pedals of my trike. However mono may be different. I have stick top control of pitch trip, and radio mic.so the left hand is busy but there ain't any way I'm going to write with my left ! Regards Bob Harrison. G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com I have had a couple of replies to my previous question of how to fit a left hand throttle. Neither of those received seemed very satisfactory and I wonder if there are any other ideas around, or even mods that have already been approved. Has anyone tried a simple Bowden Cable from a left to existing right hand throttle - it would have to attach below the pivot point to the left and above to the right, thus moving both in unison.? I have seen a similar arrangement in a Pulsar, that worked well. If this could be done, does anyone have any detail of how to fix a throttle box and lever on the port side wall? I admit to being a novice at working in glass or indeed any composites. I think that the present basic situation of flying with the left hand and using the right for the throttle is unnatural for most people and would welcome more ideas to resolve this issue. Patrick. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:21 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 09/16/05 --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Right on the money john! Lets linch the dang environmentalist! Jeff A258 On Sep 17, 2005, at 7:44 AM, TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com > > In a message dated 9/17/2005 2:57:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes: > >> And you forgot to mention that those "in the Colonies" are soon going >> to >> have to look at engine efficiencies especially since the Katrina >> problem >> and they snatched all our reserves and caused the prices to escalate. > > > Oil supply isn't the problem. A HUGE oil field was recently discovered > in > Colorado, Wyoming and Montana, said to possibly rival that of Saudi > Arabia. > Similar finds have been made in the Gulf of Mexico off the coast of > Tampa, FL, and > off the southern coast of California. We have plenty of crude. Refining > capacity is the problem here in the USA. Thanks to the Greenies, no > new refineries > have been built since 1976. Several of the refineries and major > pipelines in > Louisianna were taken off line due to power outages in the wake of > Katrina which > caused spot shortages and caused the spike in gasoline and diesel > prices. All > are back up and running and gasoline prices are falling every day. > > Besides, we "snatched" nothing from your reserves. You offered it. > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > John Lawton > Dunlap, TN > A-245 (Finishing up the very straightforward installation of a Jabiru > 3300 > with a Suncoast Sportplanes FWF package) > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:08 PM PST US From: BEBERRY@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com Hi Bob, I think you are probably right about left hand flying- and of course that is exactly what I do with the Cherokee I have been flying for some years - but somehow the stick seems different. Just in the mind I suppose. I will leave things alone and see how it goes when I have had more experience of flying my Tri Gear 914. Patrick ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:51 PM PST US From: "Timothy.P.Ward" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: "Timothy.P.Ward" Karl, I chose the obvious, 912S, and Monowheel!!! Couldn't afford the 914 due to my job, yes, you quessed it, airline pilot!! Cheers, Tim Do not archive. > > From: "KARL HEINDL" > Date: 2005/09/18 Sun AM 03:26:19 GMT+12:00 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Fwf Prices > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" > > > Nigel, > > Very good engine summary. I was always glad I chose the obvious: a 912S, and > a trigear. > > A quick comparison on prices for fwf kits: according to Andy the Jabiru kit > is $ 18,100; I assume that includes every nut and bolt, and assuming a > current exchange rate of 1.8 for the Rotax kits I see that the 912S kit is > an additional $ 2,500, not the end of the world. But then you look at the > 914, and it is an extra 50%, a whopping $ 9000. It is ideal for high > alltitude cruising and obviously aimed at this specialized market. For a > long time the 914 was the only alternative to the 912, but when the 912S > version came out, it in my opinion made the 914 largely obsolete. > I get the impression that many builders are in a very high income bracket, > and spending an extra ten or even twenty grand means nothing to them (i.e. > airline pilots, whether current or retired). > > p.s. the Rotax kit prices on the Europa website may not include the Warp > Drive propeller, as none are listed. I remember, when I bought my kit, the > prop was included, and every nut and bolt and rivet. > > Karl > > > > > > > Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton Christchurch. Ph. 0064 33515166 ward.t@xtra.co.nz ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:51 PM PST US From: "Timothy.P.Ward" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: "Timothy.P.Ward" Karl, I chose the obvious, 912S, and Monowheel!!! Couldn't afford the 914 due to my job, yes, you quessed it, airline pilot!! Cheers, Tim Do not archive. > > From: "KARL HEINDL" > Date: 2005/09/18 Sun AM 03:26:19 GMT+12:00 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Fwf Prices > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" > > > Nigel, > > Very good engine summary. I was always glad I chose the obvious: a 912S, and > a trigear. > > A quick comparison on prices for fwf kits: according to Andy the Jabiru kit > is $ 18,100; I assume that includes every nut and bolt, and assuming a > current exchange rate of 1.8 for the Rotax kits I see that the 912S kit is > an additional $ 2,500, not the end of the world. But then you look at the > 914, and it is an extra 50%, a whopping $ 9000. It is ideal for high > alltitude cruising and obviously aimed at this specialized market. For a > long time the 914 was the only alternative to the 912, but when the 912S > version came out, it in my opinion made the 914 largely obsolete. > I get the impression that many builders are in a very high income bracket, > and spending an extra ten or even twenty grand means nothing to them (i.e. > airline pilots, whether current or retired). > > p.s. the Rotax kit prices on the Europa website may not include the Warp > Drive propeller, as none are listed. I remember, when I bought my kit, the > prop was included, and every nut and bolt and rivet. > > Karl > > > > > > > Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton Christchurch. Ph. 0064 33515166 ward.t@xtra.co.nz ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:47 PM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Tim, You are probably working for the wrong airline. But you are right about the mono choice: If in New Zealand that would have been my choice, flying mosty over rough terrain, the monowheel has a distinct advantage if an emergency landing should ever be necessary. Karl >From: "Timothy.P.Ward" >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices >Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 9:57:09 +1200 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Timothy.P.Ward" > >Karl, >I chose the obvious, 912S, and Monowheel!!! >Couldn't afford the 914 due to my job, > yes, you quessed it, airline pilot!! > >Cheers, >Tim >Do not archive. > > > > From: "KARL HEINDL" > > Date: 2005/09/18 Sun AM 03:26:19 GMT+12:00 > > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Europa-List: Fwf Prices > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" > > > > > > Nigel, > > > > Very good engine summary. I was always glad I chose the obvious: a 912S, >and > > a trigear. > > > > A quick comparison on prices for fwf kits: according to Andy the Jabiru >kit > > is $ 18,100; I assume that includes every nut and bolt, and assuming a > > current exchange rate of 1.8 for the Rotax kits I see that the 912S kit >is > > an additional $ 2,500, not the end of the world. But then you look at >the > > 914, and it is an extra 50%, a whopping $ 9000. It is ideal for high > > alltitude cruising and obviously aimed at this specialized market. For a > > long time the 914 was the only alternative to the 912, but when the 912S > > version came out, it in my opinion made the 914 largely obsolete. > > I get the impression that many builders are in a very high income >bracket, > > and spending an extra ten or even twenty grand means nothing to them >(i.e. > > airline pilots, whether current or retired). > > > > p.s. the Rotax kit prices on the Europa website may not include the Warp > > Drive propeller, as none are listed. I remember, when I bought my kit, >the > > prop was included, and every nut and bolt and rivet. > > > > Karl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Tim Ward >12 Waiwetu Street >Fendalton >Christchurch. >Ph. 0064 33515166 >ward.t@xtra.co.nz > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:51 PM PST US From: N55XS Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS Patrick, Before my Europa, I had flown nothing but wheels. The transition to the stick was a non-event. It was totally natura... Jeff - N55XS 62 hours and now flying from a grass strip... BEBERRY@aol.com wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com > > > >Hi Bob, > >I think you are probably right about left hand flying- and of course that is >exactly what I do with the Cherokee I have been flying for some years - but >somehow the stick seems different. Just in the mind I suppose. I will leave >things alone and see how it goes when I have had more experience of flying >my Tri Gear 914. > >Patrick > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:19 PM PST US From: N55XS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS I agree that engine wear on the lower compression engine will be slightly less, however I also believe that the added maintainence and cost of the turbocharger will offset the cost to the point that it becomes irrelevent... Jeff - N55XS 62 hours and now flying from a grass strip... BEBERRY@aol.com wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com > > > >The question that has not been answered is the reliability of the 912S >against the 914. Remember that the 914 is a turbo charged 912 whilst the 912 S is >a 912 with a much enhanced compession ratio, leading, all things being equal >to much greater stress on all engine components. The 914 has not been in >operation long enough to give proper comparisons but I suspect that the 914, >properly maintained and operated with proper care will prove the much longer >lasting engine. > >Those of an engineering persuasion may care to comment? > >Patrick > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:26 PM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Patrick, Peter Kember in the UK( kits 1 and 1000) did that throttle conversion on his kit no. 1 a long time ago and I believe it was well documented in an article in the Europa Flyer. Regarding the 912S reliability, why should it fall apart before a 914 ? The Rotaxquoted MTBO is 1500 hours I believe, and I have every faith in their develoment engineers having done their calculations correctly. I read somewhere that they have so far sold close to five million aircraft engines, they seem to know what they are doing. Karl >From: BEBERRY@aol.com >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) >Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 13:52:33 EDT > >--> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com > > >I have had a couple of replies to my previous question of how to fit a >left >hand throttle. Neither of those received seemed very satisfactory and I >wonder if there are any other ideas around, or even mods that have already >been >approved. > >Has anyone tried a simple Bowden Cable from a left to existing right hand >throttle - it would have to attach below the pivot point to the left and >above >to the right, thus moving both in unison.? I have seen a similar >arrangement >in a Pulsar, that worked well. > >If this could be done, does anyone have any detail of how to fix a >throttle >box and lever on the port side wall? I admit to being a novice at working >in >glass or indeed any composites. > >I think that the present basic situation of flying with the left hand and >using the right for the throttle is unnatural for most people and would >welcome >more ideas to resolve this issue. > >Patrick. > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:59 PM PST US From: Andrew Sarangan Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Question about wing tie-downs (Mod 69) --> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan May I ask how you closed the Araldite can after opening it? Once the lid is open, it can't be closed (its like a tuna can). Did you pour it into a different container? If so, what material? Aluminum, glass? Thanks! --- josok wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" > > Araldite 420 + flox has more flexibility then epoxy + flox. I guess > in this application araldite is the better choice. Secondly, i don't > think that araldite will age much quicker once opened. In my case, i > had to order an extra set of araldite anyhow, because i was running > short just a bit. I think with saving i could have managed, but i > would have to live with the eternal question: Was it good enough? > > Regards, > > Jos Okhuijsen > ---------------- > Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ > > > > > > > Andrew Sarangan http://www.sarangan.org ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:38 PM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: Europa-List: Fwf prices --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Patrick, Excuse the mixup. My first reply was obviously aimed at Tim. Karl do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:11 PM PST US From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel Upstop? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" Ron: I wound up making up some extra cable guides out of nylaflow tubing to keep the cables out of the way of the wheel and master cylinder. My rudder pullies were also moved around slightly to get clearance. I believe I put the pullie's axels throught the holes where the seat belts are supposed to go and then drilled other holes for the seat belts or the seat belts might have been put where the rudder pullies go. For my upstop I actually made a stop out of tufnol and put in on the mono swing arm in a position underneath the shock absorber assembly. When the shock swings down and the arm comes up there is a good spot to put a stop in. There are photos of it on Bob Jacobson's old web page for American Europa owner's web page. I don't know if it is still around since he is now flying another plane. Cliff Shaw is his buddy so he may be able to supply a link. Started the 914 today for the first time today in the driveway, it makes a great leaf blower . Everything ended up in my neighbor's yard across the street! Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 9/16/2005 9:44:17 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel Upstop? > > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > Just got the gear lever gates installed. > > When positioned in the up gate the swingarm is even with the bottom of > fuse. If I push up on the swingarm, to simulate negative Gs, the caliper > mashes into the rudder cables and also hits a starbord rudder guide. > > These bad things happen if I push up bout 3/4" > > I am thinking to install a up stop on the port side of the tunnel just > forward of the airbrake horn, made of 1/4 tufnal and contacting the > swingarm just where the swingarm is closest to the tunnel. Position would > where tire needs to be raised about 1/4" to contact this stop. > > Comments? > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:15 PM PST US From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel Upstop? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" Hi this is Steve. I acually bolted those items in place with two #10 screws through the swing arm. It makes it easier to make the spacers bigger than needed. To try them out and then take them off to machine down to to the proper thickness and re- bolt in place. Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter > To: > Date: 9/17/2005 1:05:34 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel Upstop? > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter > > Hi Ron, > > Somebody came up with a good up stop design that involves installing a > couple of tufnol blocks to the swing arm so that they hit the shock > absorber bottom plate in the up position. > > Was that Steve Hager? > > Anyway I insalled 3/4 inch blocks of tufnol by ruduxing them between the > inside of the swing arm and the LG02A. Seems to make for a very solid up > stop, though I'm not sure what would happen in a gear up landing. > > With the wheel off and the swing arm up weasure the space between the > swing arm and the LG07. The blocks, one on each side of the LG02A need > to be exactly the right hight to stop the swing arm where you want it, > flush with the fuse bottom. Its pretty easy to make a couple blocks and > test it out, see what you think. > > Kevin > > rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: > > > >Just got the gear lever gates installed. > > > >When positioned in the up gate the swingarm is even with the bottom of > >fuse. If I push up on the swingarm, to simulate negative Gs, the caliper > >mashes into the rudder cables and also hits a starbord rudder guide. > > > >These bad things happen if I push up bout 3/4" > > > >I am thinking to install a up stop on the port side of the tunnel just > >forward of the airbrake horn, made of 1/4 tufnal and contacting the > >swingarm just where the swingarm is closest to the tunnel. Position would > >where tire needs to be raised about 1/4" to contact this stop. > > > >Comments? > > > >Thx. > >Ron Parigoris > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:28 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi all, I have a 914 and I was concerned that the overhaul cost would be high. If you use a Rotax service center, I seem to recall a number like $8000.00 for a new one and $3500.00 for an overhaul. However apart from one unique part it is a standard Garret turbocharger which can be overhauled at a specialist Turbo shop for less than $500.00 Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "N55XS" > I agree that engine wear on the lower compression engine will be > slightly less, however I also believe that the added maintainence and > cost of the turbocharger will offset the cost to the point that it ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:54 PM PST US From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" I started my 914 for the first time today. It had been sitting in my living room for about 6 months and sitting on the airplane for about a year and a half. Several buddies came by to handle fire extinguisher duties and help putting the wings on. We took the return line off the turbo off to ensure good flow for initial startup. After six blades passed the engine fired up. I consider the initial startup as 95% successful. The engine runs smooth like an electric motor. I haven't even balanced the left and right carbs yet. There was alot of oil blowing out of the airbox overflows. The only discrepancy noted was that I wasn't getting any RPM readout from my Rocky Mtn engine monitor. Everything else: pressures, temps, flows were within specs. So I consider the effort a success. The aircraft has been under constructon for about six years. The runup took place in the driveway. The neighbors didn't even take notice, I suppose the airplane is considered a fixture in the neighborhood. On cool mornings it gets pushed out in the driveway to get worked on. No one even takes notice. The muffler,turbo and the reduction ratio of the propeller make the running of the engine a benign event! It is very quiet and smooth.There has be much noted about engine selection lately. I flew with Erich Trombley to Oshkosh and back. He lives in Vegas and I live in Phoenix (if you ask me I think they are both hell holes). In my opinion for cross country flying the turbo really makes the Europa unique. He has a classic with a 914. You can fly where there is no other traffic (12000 - 14000 ft.). If the wind in against you, you just elevator up and down over a window of 6 to 8 thousand ft until you find a good groundspeed to get you to your destination. The Rotax gets you there at about 3 to 6 gallons per hour less than the typical aircraft engine. Rotax is real good about issueing service bullitins and assorted other info to you about what the engine needs. When I was a youngster I used to race enduros and motocross in the 70's I had a Husky (Husqvarna) and a Puch (Austrian). Both european motorcycles. They required some more maintenance than the typical Japanese racer. However the results at the racetrack were noteable. Maintainence is different, however so were the results. I see the Rotax as the same. You fly it. It gives excellent performance for the job it has to do. If you follow the maintenance and operations routine noted in the bullins and instructions released by Rotax you have a reliable installation. (They are very good at getting service info to registered owners). There are hundreds of engines out there. You are not a test pilot for a different engine. You have a history for the installation if problems arise you can refer to others that have had the esperience with the engine. With the advent of the new sport pilot regulations in the US, Rotax has become the engine of choice for the most part for these aircraft. So we should see service and aftermarket support issues increase for the Rotax installation. I see it as a motorcycle engine for aircraft. I have been riding european motorcycles for 30 years and this fits right in my routine. You know your engine, give it what it needs, and it delivers excellent performance. It may require some additional attention, however its performance is just slightly better than your installation of another alternative. Many have said there is additional complication with the 914. All systems are straightforward once you understand them there is no problem. Slightly different from typical. You get different performance from a normally aspirated air cooled engine. There are tradeoffs. However there is something to be said about watching the landscape passing by at 13500 ft in smooth air up there with the autopilot on when you have a destination to get to. High altitudes give you options if you need to make airfields if problems arise. After flying with Erich I am totally convinced that the choice of a 914 was the right thing to do. Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter > To: > Date: 9/17/2005 1:31:43 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter > > I agree. Its good to hear the pros and cons of the engine choices, even > though I already bought a 914 and am completing the install now. > > My home airport is at 4120 feet and summer temps reach 110 F. Lets see, > thats uh, pretty high desity altitude. And I look forward to being able > to cruise up to 18000 and take advantage of higher true airspeeds. Plus > I just like cruising way up there. > > With the Jabiru 3300 producing 127 hp at 3300 rpm (correct?) and 3300 > rpm being too fast for a given prop (correct?), what is the max rpm and > HP for a 3300 and best prop combo, on a Europa mono-wheel? > > Just curious... Kevin N211KA, still workin on it... > > Garry wrote: > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" > > > >I totally disagree with Sam N77EU. As an owner and builder I am constantly > >looking for information on products and accessories related to the Europa. > >I encourage vendors of Europa products to contribute to this forum, and thus > >keep us informed on what's available and how it performs. In particular, > >Andy Sylvester of Jabiru has done a marvelous job of educating us all on the > >merits, performance, costs, etc. of the Jabiru engine. Thanks Andy! For > >those of you who want to keep your heads buried in the sand, there is > >something on your keyboard called a delete key. > > > >Garry Stout > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: > >To: > >Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! > > > > > > > > > >>--> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com > >> > >>THIS FORUM IS MEANT FOR EUROPA BUILDERS & OWNERS. > >>IF YOU ARE SELLING AN ENGINE YOU SHUOULD PAY MATRONICS > >>FOR YOUR ADVERTIZING OR PLACE AN ADD > >>IN THE MAGAZINES AND LEAVE US TO OUR AIRCRAFT. > >>SAM N77EU > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:20 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Steve Congratulations. It sounds like you love it like the rest of us do. Welcome aboard !!! Your Rocky Mountain has a special hook-up for the tach. I will look it up and see what it was I did on Bob's and my planes. Get back to you later. congratulations !!! Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE The engine runs smooth like an electric motor. ------I The neighbors didn't even take notice, -----