---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/20/05: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:24 AM - Re: Balls (BEBERRY@aol.com) 2. 01:02 AM - DOTH Wed 21st (Paddy Clarke) 3. 02:16 AM - Re: Balls (Bob Fairall) 4. 02:39 AM - Let talk about Fuselage Gaps! (Graham Singleton) 5. 05:12 AM - Re: 914 Stuck Wastegate (Paul McAllister) 6. 05:14 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 09/18/05 (Paul McAllister) 7. 05:31 AM - Re: Fwf Prices (Kingsley Hurst) 8. 05:46 AM - Autopilots (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu) 9. 07:23 AM - Re: Let talk about Fuselage Gaps! (Fergus Kyle) 10. 08:04 AM - Re: Fwf Prices (Nigel Graham) 11. 08:20 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 09/18/05 (Jerry Rehn) 12. 08:46 AM - Fuel Pressure Gauge (Erich Trombley) 13. 09:27 AM - Re: Balls (William Mills) 14. 09:33 AM - Re: Fuel Pressure Gauge (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 15. 09:54 AM - Re: Fwf Prices (William Mills) 16. 10:39 AM - Re: Re: Fwf Prices (Chris Beck) 17. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: Fwf Prices (Chris Beck) 18. 10:47 AM - Re: DOTH Wed 21st (Bryan Allsop) 19. 11:31 AM - Re: Balls (ivor.phillips) 20. 11:45 AM - Re: ENGINES! (Jan de Jong) 21. 11:59 AM - OIL SHORTAGE (Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden) 22. 12:13 PM - Copperstate (Thomas Scherer) 23. 01:06 PM - Re: ENGINES! (Duncan McFadyean) 24. 01:06 PM - Re: ENGINES! (Duncan McFadyean) 25. 01:10 PM - Re: Let talk about Fuselage Gaps! (Gerry Cole) 26. 01:10 PM - Re: Copperstate (Al Stills) 27. 03:11 PM - Was Re: Fwf Prices NOW Automatic Carb Leaning. (R.C.Harrison) 28. 05:51 PM - John's 10-20 (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu) 29. 10:30 PM - Re: Balls (William Mills) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:36 AM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Balls --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com Someine gave me a little red ball to mark the fuel level but I was told not to use it with mogas (or was it avgas?), as it would get saturated and sink. Worth enquiring. Patrick ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:01 AM PST US From: Paddy Clarke Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Wed 21st --> Europa-List message posted by: Paddy Clarke Hi Folks, The weather looks OK for tomorrow ( Wednesday ), so how about a DOTH to Sheffield ?. Voucher in Pilot. It's another place I've never been, but I believe you have to get a fax brief. Cheers Paddy Clarke Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:16:47 AM PST US From: "Bob Fairall" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Balls --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Fairall" Thanks for that info Patrick. I seem to recall a Piper Cub I flew once had a ball in the sight tube, but this may have been larger diameter. I do find that the fuel level can be difficult to see in certain light conditions and I feel something of this nature would be a great asset. Bob Fairall 71 & 494 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Balls --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com Someine gave me a little red ball to mark the fuel level but I was told not to use it with mogas (or was it avgas?), as it would get saturated and sink. Worth enquiring. Patrick ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:56 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Let talk about Fuselage Gaps! --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton At 23:56 19/09/2005 -0700, you wrote: > >--> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS > > I experienced a slight gap >problem, too, however, after checking the proper distance between the >lower fuse flanges, where they go from vertical to horizonal, I found >them a little close to each other. What I did was to open it with a bit >of wood, that I affixed with a bit of 5 minute epoxy. This went a long >way toward closing the gap. The most important thing is to make sure >that your tail fin is square and pulled down tight in the rear. Jeff and everyone The other most important thing is to be aware that any distortion in this area after the tail torque tube is installed will cause excessive friction in the pitch control. That will ruin the pleasant handling that the Europa normally has Graham -- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:54 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Stuck Wastegate --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi Matt, What was the solvent that you used to clean off the lead build up ? Paul ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:07 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 09/18/05 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi Craig, UMA sell a differential pressure sensor and gauge for the fuel pressure. It was developed in conjunction with Europa Aircraft. I assume that it is still available. I have one and it works well Paul ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:59 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > > At 13,000 ft with full throttle, my 912S fuel flow is 14 litres per hour, > whereas on take-off at full throttle it burns 28 litres per hour. I > assume > that proves there is an automatic leaning of the carbs. Hello William, With much respect I am wondering if it really does ? At 13,000 ft your MAP at full throttle is considerably less than at sea level with full throttle. I suspect if you fly at sea level with the same MAP as you are achieving at 13,000 ft, your fuel flow will still be in the order of 14 LPH or most likely even less. If in fact you do have a MAP gauge, I would interested to hear the result of such a test. Regards Kingsley in Oz. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:14 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Autopilots From: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu 09/20/2005 08:43:43 AM, Serialize complete at 09/20/2005 08:43:43 AM --> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu The Blue mountain autopilots were only $3.5k for the cables and servos, the software already included in the CPU box. I'd install them again for their potential utility, not because a 100 hamburger run requires it. Some homebuilt A/C are fussier to fly, Glasairs come to mind where an AP would be more valuable. I also have aileron trim which is more useful on a daily basis to compensate for pass/no pass W&B. After Andy fixed my rudder trim tab at SnF this year, the plane is totally hands and feet off, if you like, at cruise. Ira N224XS ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:01 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Let talk about Fuselage Gaps! --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Brian, I ran into this and put it down to over-stored pair of moldings changing shape somewhat. I used bungees to pull the tail of the top molding ahead toward the rear edges of the cockpit doors and left for several days, while ensuring that they remained in alignment. . During that time, the two molding came closer together and I got all bit about 6-7mm spacing which I buttressed with inner layers of BiD later. All seems minor now but is a trouble at the time. Ferg ...just had fuse painted - gleam! ----- Original Message ----- From: "N55XS" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Let talk about Fuselage Gaps! | --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS | | Well said, Brian. Now, for your delima. I experienced a slight gap | problem, too, however, after checking the proper distance between the | lower fuse flanges, where they go from vertical to horizonal, I found | them a little close to each other. What I did was to open it with a bit | of wood, that I affixed with a bit of 5 minute epoxy. This went a long | way toward closing the gap. The most important thing is to make sure | that your tail fin is square and pulled down tight in the rear. Any | small gaps will be covered with the 4 ply of Bid that you will be | reinforcing the seam with. Once sanded and filled and sanded and filled | and sanded and filled and sanded, you'll never know it was there. The | joint will be plenty strong... | | Jeff - N55XS | 64 hours... | | | EuropaXSA276@aol.com wrote: | | >--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com | > | >Lets take a deep breath and get back to building. | > | >I have a question about the way my top is fitting at the vertical seam in the | >tail area. | > | > I have an 8 to10 mm gap at the vertical line joggles on the tail section. | >The flange on the bottom half of the fuselage will be only 13 mm wide where the | >top bonds in this area. < Probably should have cut the bottom flange wider at | >this point but did not as it was many chapters before this issue came up> | >The top is properly seated at the firewall making sure there are no bumps or | >mold marks to keep it too far forward. | > | >I originally used ratchet straps to close this gap. It helps but the bottom | >half of the fuselage tends to bow a bit. | > | >I have noted this same problem on one or two other airframes. Is this normal? | > | > What is the fix? | > | >Should I fill the gap and do a lay-up on the outside of this area for | >strength? If so how many plies and size? | > | >Brian Skelly | >Texas | >Europa # A276 TriGear | >See My build photos at: | >http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS | > | > | > | > | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:48 AM PST US From: "Nigel Graham" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" Hi William and Kingsley The Rotax engines are fitted with Bing constant vacuum carburettors. On these, the throttle slide and fuel control needle are not connected to the throttle cable (like the majority of motorcycle carbs except BMWs), but suspended under a rubber diaphragm - which is fed from a small venturi into the choke mouth. The position of the throttle slide is therefore controlled by the volume and speed of the air passing over the venturi. The throttle cable only operates a butterfly valve in behind the throttle slide. Open the butterfly, more air is allowed to pass and the throttle slide rises, lifting the tapered fuel control needle and allowing more fuel in proportion to the volume of air passing through the carb. The benefit for aviation applications is that as the density of air drops (when you go up) so the volume of air passing over the venturi will begin to drop and the slide will drop - automatically lowering the fuel control needle. It doesn't "lean" the mixture as such - but attempts to keep the correct stoiometric fuel/air ratio. By operation, this is altitude compensating, but will also compensate for anything else that might reduce the air density - like hot or moist air. Those trained to "lean off" as you fly through cloud really need do no more than "sit back, relax and enjoy the flight" as we are so often invited to do! Apologies for the diversion, I'll let you all get back to squabbling over engine choice now while I slip back into "lurk" mode ;-) Nigel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > > At 13,000 ft with full throttle, my 912S fuel flow is 14 litres per hour, > whereas on take-off at full throttle it burns 28 litres per hour. I > assume > that proves there is an automatic leaning of the carbs. Hello William, With much respect I am wondering if it really does ? At 13,000 ft your MAP at full throttle is considerably less than at sea level with full throttle. I suspect if you fly at sea level with the same MAP as you are achieving at 13,000 ft, your fuel flow will still be in the order of 14 LPH or most likely even less. If in fact you do have a MAP gauge, I would interested to hear the result of such a test. Regards Kingsley in Oz. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:58 AM PST US From: "Jerry Rehn" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 09/18/05 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jerry Rehn" Craig, Aircraft Spruce now carries the differential gauge Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "c w" Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 09/18/05 > --> Europa-List message posted by: c w > > > Hi im a stemme owner and regular monitor this group > > I chosbecause of the 914 info. I was wondering where Ron > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:03 AM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Pressure Gauge --> Europa-List message posted by: "Erich Trombley" Craig, Give John Hurst a call at Lockwood Aviation in Fl. He can be reached at 863-655-5100. He developed a differential pressure Gauge for the 914 working with UMA instruments. Regards, Erich Trombley N28ET Mono-Classic 914. Hi im a stemme owner and regular monitor this group because of the 914 info. I was wondering where Ron got the Differential fuel pressure gauge at or what type to use. The Stemme just has a idiot light that keeps going crazy even though when I check the preasure out all is well. Craig Craig, Give John Hurst a call at Lockwood Aviation in Fl. He can be reached at 863-655-5100. He developed a differential pressure Gauge for the 914 working with UMA instruments. Regards, Erich Trombley N28ET Mono-Classic 914. Hi im a stemme owner and regular monitor this group because of the 914 info. I was wondering where Ron got the Differential fuel pressure gauge at or what type to use. The Stemme just has a idiot light that keeps going crazy even though when I check the preasure out all is well. Craig ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:45 AM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Balls --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Hi Bob, Try Bob Harrison; I think he has one. Regards, William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Fairall" Subject: Europa-List: Balls > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Fairall" > > > Some kind soul recently told me where I could buy a 5mm / 7/32" red ball > to > float on the top of the fuel in the sight gauge tube. > > Can I remember where .............? > > Can I remember who it was told me this ...........? > > Can I find the message ................? > > NO ........! Put it down to old age! > > Sorry everyone, but if you can help me with this I would be very grateful. > > Bob Fairall > Kits 71 & 494 > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:16 AM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Pressure Gauge --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com All, John Hurst now works for Liberty Aircraft near Dallas, Texas. Do Not Archive Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:58 AM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Hi Kingsley, I do have a MAP reading facility on the CS Prop controller, but it was probably set to % power in cruise mode. Anyway, I was up at 13,000 ft in the Alps and will probably not be up at that altitude until I visit them again; perhaps next year. However, I am sure you are right about a reduced MAP, so a reduced fuel flow is exactly what is needed. If the carbs did not compensate for altitude, presumably the fuel flow would still be 28 litres per hour at full throttle, which would be far too rich for the reduced oxygen content and / or reduced airflow. That to me would suggest automatic mixture compensation for altitude, but I am only guessing. If I can remember, I will certainly take some MAP readings next time. Best wishes, William Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > >> At 13,000 ft with full throttle, my 912S fuel flow is 14 litres per hour, >> whereas on take-off at full throttle it burns 28 litres per hour. I >> assume >> that proves there is an automatic leaning of the carbs. > > Hello William, > > With much respect I am wondering if it really does ? At 13,000 ft your > MAP > at full throttle is considerably less than at sea level with full > throttle. > I suspect if you fly at sea level with the same MAP as you are achieving > at > 13,000 ft, your fuel flow will still be in the order of 14 LPH or most > likely even less. > If in fact you do have a MAP gauge, I would interested to hear the result > of > such a test. > > Regards > Kingsley in Oz. > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:17 AM PST US From: Chris Beck Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck From: William Mills Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices That to me would suggest automatic mixture compensation for altitude, but I am only guessing. If I can remember, I will certainly take some MAP readings next time. Best wishes, William ---> From what I recall reading, the carbs used on the 912 series are what are known as "Constant Velocity" carbs. Basically, they are motorcycle carbs. In an old style motorcycle carb, the throttle not a butterfly plate, but a slide that is controlled by the twist grip. As the slide is raised, controlling the air admitted to the engine, it also lifts the needle, which admits more fuel. In a constant velocity carb (aka CV carb), the throttle is now a familiar throttle plate, and the slide is now controlled by a diaphragm. This is the round donut on top of each carb. The diaphragm controls the slide position by way of manifold vacuum and outside air pressure. What this did for motorcycles was to keep up the air velocity through the carb when the twistgrip was whacked open, which improved throttle response as well as allow for a leaner mixture because the carb didn't have to be set artificially rich to compensate for the mixture going lean when the throttle was opened quickly. What does this do for the Rotax? Well, at altitude, you will have the throttle 100% open. But due to the low air pressure, there will not be much vacuum to open the slide. Therefore, the needle will not be lifted up as much and won't admit as much fuel. Bingo - automatic leaning. I don't know how well it really works from a fuel mixture standpoint, but there is no doubt the 912 carbs do lean the mixture at altitude. What I don't understand is why Rotax is even using carbs to begin with? That little engine just BEGS for fuel injection. Rotax needs to make a deal with Bosch and have a nice little fuel injection setup developed. You could probably rip it right off a BMW motorcycle. Maybe by the time we ever get around to buying our engine, Rotax will have a fuelie setup. Chris A159 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:46 AM PST US From: Chris Beck Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck From: Nigel Graham Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" Hi William and Kingsley The Rotax engines are fitted with Bing constant vacuum carburettors. On these, the throttle slide and fuel control needle are not connected to the throttle cable (like the majority of motorcycle carbs except BMWs), but suspended under a rubber diaphragm - which is fed from a small venturi into the choke mouth. Nigel --->Jeez, if I just would have read down a few more messages I could have saved myself a lot of typing.... At least I see I'm on the right track! Thanks, Nigel. Chris ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:34 AM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Wed 21st --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" You do not need a fax brief if you have been to Sheffield before. I believe you can also down-load it from their web site. You do need to phone them though. They are not at all stuffy. I shall be there Paddy. All the way from Chesterfield via somewhere else. See yer. Bryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paddy Clarke" Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Wed 21st > --> Europa-List message posted by: Paddy Clarke > > Hi Folks, > The weather looks OK for tomorrow ( Wednesday ), so how about a DOTH to > Sheffield ?. > Voucher in Pilot. It's another place I've never been, but I believe > you have to get a fax brief. Cheers > Paddy Clarke > > Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:31:01 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Balls --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" That's a bit harsh William!! :-) Try Bob Harrison; I think he has one. Subject: Europa-List: Balls Fuel Sight Gauges Vance Atkinson 3604 Willomet Ct Bedford, TX 76021 (817) 354-8064 (817) 354-1110 fax email: Nostromo56@home.com The fuel sight gauges consist of 1/8" plastic, one white to enhance the fuel line and the other a clear bubble that is extruded from a two-piece mold. They fit over the existing space on the fuselage that the plans call for. They will fit the Vari-Eze, Long-EZ, Cozy, Velocity, Defiant, Berkut and Aerocanard. There is also a small float for easier viewing. They come with optional internal lighting and detailed instructions. I think Vance is the chap to speak too, Ivor Phillips > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Fairall" >> >> >> Some kind soul recently told me where I could buy a 5mm / 7/32" red ball >> to >> float on the top of the fuel in the sight gauge tube. >> >> Can I remember where .............? >> >> Can I remember who it was told me this ...........? >> >> Can I find the message ................? >> >> NO ........! Put it down to old age! >> >> Sorry everyone, but if you can help me with this I would be very >> grateful. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:49 AM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! --> Europa-List message posted by: Jan de Jong BMW developments are apparently still happening; using a centrifugal clutch integrated with the gearbox. http://www.spang-air.de/willkommen/BMW_Engine/bmw_engine.html http://www.takeoff-ul.de/Motoren/motoren.html Jan de Jong ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:01 AM PST US From: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" Subject: Europa-List: OIL SHORTAGE --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" You may be wondering why the USA ended up with an oil shortage. There really is a very simple answer. We just didn't know that we were getting low. Nobody was able to check the oil level. The reason for that is purely geographical. Our OIL is located in: Alaska California Oklahoma Texas Utah and Wyoming Our DIPSTICKS are located in WASHINGTON DC! ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:27 PM PST US From: "Thomas Scherer" Subject: Europa-List: Copperstate --> Europa-List message posted by: "Thomas Scherer" Anybody doing Copperstate this year ? It will be on Oct 6 ~ 9, just south of Phoenix, Arizona. Although I usually do not make such short flights (hihi - it is only 3 hours from LA) I shall be there and get updates on autopilots and ideas how to minimize vibration from the spinner. Sincerely, ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:05 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" Which solves the starting problem and introduces a cooling problem i.e.no cooling airflow below c.1700rpm when the clutch disengages. Useful for float/boat planes though. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan de Jong" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! > --> Europa-List message posted by: Jan de Jong > > BMW developments are apparently still happening; using a centrifugal > clutch integrated with the gearbox. > http://www.spang-air.de/willkommen/BMW_Engine/bmw_engine.html > http://www.takeoff-ul.de/Motoren/motoren.html > > Jan de Jong > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:45 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" Nigel, You smooth talker, knowing fullwell that I was (involved with the BMW project) and didn't (make it work)! Duncan McF do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! > --> Europa-List message posted by: nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk > > Hi Duncan > > Sorry I got it wrong. I don't believe anyone is now considering the BMW so > it doesn't matter too much. I am sure if anyone could have made the BMW > work > satisfactorily it would have been you. > > Regards > > Nigel > > >>-- Original Message -- >>From: "Duncan McFadyean" >>To: >>Subject: Re: Europa-List: ENGINES! >>Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:00:51 +0100 >>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >> >> >>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" >> >> >> >>.<<...> BMW.....torsional vibration proved to be a too difficult >>> problem to overcome after exhaustive development work....>> >> >>Nigel, >>Please note that when running the BMW did NOT suffer from torsional >>vibration problems. Rather, it had the same starting difficulty that the >> >>912S sometimes has (only more extreme) which, by consensus of this forum, >>is >>not torsional vibration (although I don't agree with that). >> >>Rgds., >>Duncan McF. >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "nigel charles" >>To: >>Subject: RE: Europa-List: ENGINES! >> >> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" >>> >>> >>>>Thats easy! >>>>> Get the 140 hp Dual Port Fuel Injected EA81 with redundant injection >>>>>here:< >>> >>> Very easy if you want to substitute baggage capability for engine >>> weight. The extra weight also means the battery has to be in the tail > to >>> keep the C of G within limits. This increases the pitch inertia which >>> degrades the handling characteristics slightly. >>> >>> For those who are new to the forum and are trying to make an engine >>> choice the following might be a useful summary: >>> >>> Subaru - too heavy, NSI (the company producing the engine/gearbox >>> package) have a poor customer relations record. >>> >>> BMW - nice engine but torsional vibration proved to be a too difficult >>> problem to overcome after exhaustive development work. >>> >>> Mid West Rotary - very smooth and light but excessive fuel consumption >>> and very difficult to set up to run smoothly at all rpm's. >>> >>> Wilksch Diesel - lovely engine with many original design patents. It is >>> very fuel efficient and cheap to run due to much cheaper jet fuel. This >>> is an engine to watch in the future for the replacement of >>> Lyco/Continentals but it is just too heavy for the Europa. The radiator >>> adds significantly to the frontal area which may increase drag. >>> >>> Lyco/Continental - too heavy and high fuel consumption. >>> >>> Jabiru - the only workable alternative to the Rotax for the Europa. True >>> it is simpler. If you want a simple aircraft you would probably not have >>> chosen the Europa in the first place. Although it has a higher power >>> output it is at 3300rpm which is too high for the prop to use >>> efficiently so the performance advantage is negated. Being aircooled the >>> fuel efficiency is slightly down on the Rotax. Some cooling issues were >>> apparent from the cowling mods seen on early aircraft. It definitely has >>> a price advantage which is the one area which lets the Rotax down. If > I >>> was cost limited I would sooner spend it on the engine rather than >>> expensive avionics. >>> >>> Rotax - still the most suitable engine for the aircraft if rather >>> expensive. As Ivan Shaw said in the early days of the Europa 'there is >>> more work in developing the engine for the airframe than designing the >>> airframe in the first place'. The P51 argument would be relevant if >>> there was an engine that was significantly more suited to the airframe >>> but so far this is not the case. >>> >>> Choice of versions of the Rotax >>> >>> 912 - very fuel efficient but a little underpowered for the Europa >>> especially at max weight with high density altitudes. Using a VP prop >>> helps to extract maximum power at take-off without affecting cruise >>> performance. >>> >>> 912S - the extra 20hp make all the difference. Probably the first choice >>> for most Rotax users. Make sure the higher power starter is installed > to >>> help prevent kickbacks on start due to the higher compression ratio. >>> >>> 914 Turbo - yet more performance but at a price and increased >>> complexity. Probably the best engine for those who regularly operate at >>> high density altitudes. However the 912S with a VP prop will give >>> adequate performance up to density altitudes of at least 10,000ft and >>> will comfortably exceed Vno at low altitudes. >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005. > Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/ > Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/ > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:06 PM PST US From: "Gerry Cole" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Let talk about Fuselage Gaps! smtp-a02.internal.boltblue.com version=2.60 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Gerry Cole" Brian, I think you were referring to the gap caused by the vertical part of the upper fuselage "zig-zag" being too far forward relative to the flange on the bottom fuselage half. A gap of about 8mm is the norm I think - it can be minimised by careful attention to the fit of the overlapping flanges at the firewall. However I found another problem when fitting my upper fuselage (Classic monowheel), and I almost missed the correct solution. Having fitted the 132mm spacer block to the top of the bottom fuselage zig-zag as per manual I found that the top fuselage moulding was standing out from the bottom moulding by almost 6mm at the top of the zig-zag. It would have required considerable force to get it down. Just by chance I noticed that the base of the lower fuselage flange curved up slightly (2-3mm) over the last two inches. This was enough to push up the aft end of the top moulding slightly which caused the moulding to bulge out significantly at the top of the zig-zig - you can see the effect by lifting the aft end of the top moulding by hand. Sanding a small amount off the last two inches of the top moulding flange allowed the top moulding to sit down perfectly at the top of the zig-zag. Gerry Cole (4750 hours in the workshop and still building) > I have a question about the way my top is fitting at the vertical seam in > the > tail area. > > I have an 8 to10 mm gap at the vertical line joggles on the tail section. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:40 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Copperstate From: "Al Stills" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Al Stills" Thomas, I'm planning on being there all 4 days. Al Stills N625AZ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:47 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: Was RE: Europa-List: Fwf Prices NOW Automatic Carb Leaning. --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Kingsley /William I and Ivor Phillips were slightly above William at about 13,500ft taking photos of him and I can produce a photo of my MAP on full Bing/Jabiru throttle with only one Bing carb. "taps wide open" at 70 kts less than 100ft/minute climb and struggling to get MAP of about 17 inches. Normally in the cruise the MAP for economy is about 22 inches but on full throttle at take off it's up to about 32 inches.The Bing is supposed to be Altitude Compensating in that the mixture is automatically regulated by the diaphragm at all Ambient pressures and Altitudes. At 17 inches the damn carb won't give you any more power but at all time the right mixture ! So now we come to the 914 and the TURBO which artificially increases the MAP and enables the carbs to take in vastly more of still correct proportions of fuel and air and bingo you climb like "shit off a stick" even up there! BUT the down side is to not allow it to over boost on top of low altitude ambient pressures already flowing into the Carb!. Regards Bob Harrison. G-PTAG Europa MKI -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Mills Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Hi Kingsley, I do have a MAP reading facility on the CS Prop controller, but it was probably set to % power in cruise mode. Anyway, I was up at 13,000 ft in the Alps and will probably not be up at that altitude until I visit them again; perhaps next year. However, I am sure you are right about a reduced MAP, so a reduced fuel flow is exactly what is needed. If the carbs did not compensate for altitude, presumably the fuel flow would still be 28 litres per hour at full throttle, which would be far too rich for the reduced oxygen content and / or reduced airflow. That to me would suggest automatic mixture compensation for altitude, but I am only guessing. If I can remember, I will certainly take some MAP readings next time. Best wishes, William Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fwf Prices > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > >> At 13,000 ft with full throttle, my 912S fuel flow is 14 litres per hour, >> whereas on take-off at full throttle it burns 28 litres per hour. I >> assume >> that proves there is an automatic leaning of the carbs. > > Hello William, > > With much respect I am wondering if it really does ? At 13,000 ft your > MAP > at full throttle is considerably less than at sea level with full > throttle. > I suspect if you fly at sea level with the same MAP as you are achieving > at > 13,000 ft, your fuel flow will still be in the order of 14 LPH or most > likely even less. > If in fact you do have a MAP gauge, I would interested to hear the result > of > such a test. > > Regards > Kingsley in Oz. > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:56 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: John's 10-20 From: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu 09/20/2005 08:50:12 PM, Serialize complete at 09/20/2005 08:50:12 PM --> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu John's back at Gulf Coast Avionics. I think he discovered that "the one who shall not be named" learned at the knee of a bigger badder entity. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:08 PM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Balls --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Sorry, Bob! I can't think of a suitable answer without making it worse, but I have no doubt you are well equipped with a full compliment in every department! B w, William Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Balls > --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" > > > That's a bit harsh William!! :-) > > > Try Bob Harrison; I think he has one. > Subject: Europa-List: Balls > > > Fuel Sight Gauges > Vance Atkinson > 3604 Willomet Ct > Bedford, TX 76021 > (817) 354-8064 > (817) 354-1110 fax > email: Nostromo56@home.com > The fuel sight gauges consist of 1/8" plastic, one white to enhance the > fuel > line and the other a clear bubble that is extruded from a two-piece mold. > They fit over the existing space on the fuselage that the plans call for. > They will fit the Vari-Eze, Long-EZ, Cozy, Velocity, Defiant, Berkut and > Aerocanard. There is also a small float for easier viewing. They come with > optional internal lighting and detailed instructions. > > I think Vance is the chap to speak too, > > Ivor Phillips > >> >> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Fairall" >>> >>> >>> Some kind soul recently told me where I could buy a 5mm / 7/32" red ball >>> to >>> float on the top of the fuel in the sight gauge tube. >>> >>> Can I remember where .............? >>> >>> Can I remember who it was told me this ...........? >>> >>> Can I find the message ................? >>> >>> NO ........! Put it down to old age! >>> >>> Sorry everyone, but if you can help me with this I would be very >>> grateful. > > Do not archive > > >