Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:02 AM - TEST MESSAGE (William Mills)
2. 08:24 AM - LIFT RESERVE INDICATOR (van eldik)
3. 08:26 AM - (van eldik)
4. 08:34 AM - monowheel trailer (paul atkinson)
5. 08:36 AM - LIFT RESERVE INDICATOR (van eldik)
6. 09:00 AM - Fw: LIFT RESERVE INDICATOR (van eldik)
7. 09:20 AM - Stainless steel Firewall (Fergus Kyle)
8. 09:40 AM - Re: Stainless steel Firewall ()
9. 10:04 AM - Re: Stainless steel Firewall (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com)
10. 10:30 AM - Re: monowheel trailer (David Hillam)
11. 10:36 AM - SkyDrive Carb heat system (Richard Holder)
12. 10:37 AM - Re: Stainless steel Firewall (Terry Seaver (terrys))
13. 11:17 AM - Re: monowheel trailer (NevEyre@aol.com)
14. 11:19 AM - Re: Stainless steel Firewall (Rob Housman)
15. 11:48 AM - Re: Stainless steel Firewall (R.C.Harrison)
16. 11:48 AM - Re: monowheel trailer (R.C.Harrison)
17. 11:57 AM - Re: SkyDrive Carb heat system (Terry Seaver (terrys))
18. 01:00 PM - Re: Stainless steel Firewall (William Daniell)
19. 01:13 PM - Re: Stainless steel Firewall (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com)
20. 01:46 PM - Re: Stainless steel Firewall (William Daniell)
21. 01:47 PM - Re: SkyDrive Carb heat system (Richard Holder)
22. 03:05 PM - Re: Stainless steel Firewall (josok)
23. 03:17 PM - Re: SkyDrive Carb heat system (Cliff Shaw)
24. 03:55 PM - Re: Re: Stainless steel Firewall (William Daniell)
25. 04:34 PM - Re: Re: Naca / Paint (JR(Bob) Gowing)
26. 05:55 PM - Re: Re: Naca / Paint (Cliff Shaw)
27. 07:25 PM - Re: Stainless steel Firewall (SteveD)
28. 07:53 PM - Re: Naca / Paint (SteveD)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
Testing testing testing
Do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | LIFT RESERVE INDICATOR |
--> Europa-List message posted by: van eldik <ave@tulips7.demon.co.uk>
Does anyone use the Lift Reserve Indicator from InAir Instruments?
Affirmatively appreciate comments.
Regards
Anthony van Eldik
Mono Classic G-FLOR
Message 3
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1.50 EMPTY_MESSAGE Message appears to be empty with no Subject":
text@roxy.matronics.com
--> Europa-List message posted by: van eldik <ave@tulips7.demon.co.uk>
Message 4
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| Subject: | monowheel trailer |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "paul atkinson" <paul@theatkinsons.demon.co.uk>
A while ago I aquired a monowheel trailer. The previous owner had the car
registration painted on an ali sheet above the light cluster. Apparently
this is no longer legal. A motorcycle rear plate would fit there so I
tried to buy one form Halfords, but they and others will not supply one
for a registration assigned to a car. More than their job's worth
apparently.
Being a law abiding citizen (some of the time)I thought it best to try and
find out what the legal situation is. I spoke to the DVLA after not
finding anything useful on their website. They passed me on to the Dept of
Transport (no joy there) who passed me on to the British Standards
Institute (I don't know why either) who in turn said I should talk to the
DVLA. Aaarghhhhhhh. That is the short version of the story.
In the end I spoke to Constable Plod at the local nick (name and address
withheld to protect the innocent)who didn't think a motorcycle plate was
illegal, but in any case as there are so many adulterated plates in use,
which they haven't got the manpower to deal with, no-one in their right
mind is likely to pull me over. He also told me that I can get a plate
made by any of the merchants who advertise on ebay. They will make them in
any shape you like, in any font, any colour, and any size, and with the
badge of your favourite football team or the Europa logo if you wish.
The purpose of this ramble is to ask if there is anyone who knows what the
law is, or have you all followed PC Plod's advice? :-)
Regards
Paul Atkinson
Message 5
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| Subject: | LIFT RESERVE INDICATOR |
--> Europa-List message posted by: van eldik <ave@tulips7.demon.co.uk>
Does anyone use the LRI from InAir Instruments? Affirmatively
appreciate comments
Kind regards
Anthony van Eldik
Mono Classic G-FLOR
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fwd: LIFT RESERVE INDICATOR |
--> Europa-List message posted by: van eldik <ave@tulips7.demon.co.uk>
Please disregard my previous message. I omitted to look in the archive
Regards
Anthony van Eldik
G-FLOR
Begin forwarded message:
> From: van eldik <ave@tulips7.demon.co.uk>
> Date: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:24:45 PM Europe/London
> To: Europa-List@matronics.com
> Subject: LIFT RESERVE INDICATOR
>
>
> Does anyone use the Lift Reserve Indicator from InAir Instruments?
> Affirmatively appreciate comments.
> Regards
> Anthony van Eldik
>
> Mono Classic G-FLOR
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Stainless steel Firewall |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Cheers,
I diligently fabricated the subject sheets according to the diagrams
in the book, bending the edges as per the pictures and accurately siting the
attachment holes. ........and most of it went together pretty well (not too
many scratches and rims neatly filed for safety) - but not on the engine
frame!
I'm having the darnest time trying to fit the starboard side panel,
feeding it through the spaces past the rudder flanges and attempting to
fiddle it past the bottom frame ends. All the others will doubtless fall in
place.
Are there magic incantations to be said, or strange powder to be
strewed in strategic places? If not, I'm in a bad spell here at
Belli Acres.
Happy landings (mine are getting further away all the time),
Ferg
Message 8
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| Subject: | Stainless steel Firewall |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
Hi Ferg
Sorry, I used up the world's supply of foul incantations installing the
bloody thing. Yes, it was a bit bloody when I got done!
Tom Friedland
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Cheers,
I diligently fabricated the subject sheets according to the diagrams
in the book, bending the edges as per the pictures and accurately siting the
attachment holes. ........and most of it went together pretty well (not too
many scratches and rims neatly filed for safety) - but not on the engine
frame!
I'm having the darnest time trying to fit the starboard side panel,
feeding it through the spaces past the rudder flanges and attempting to
fiddle it past the bottom frame ends. All the others will doubtless fall in
place.
Are there magic incantations to be said, or strange powder to be
strewed in strategic places? If not, I'm in a bad spell here at
Belli Acres.
Happy landings (mine are getting further away all the time), Ferg
--
--
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Stainless steel Firewall |
10/19/2005 01:03:44 PM,
Serialize complete at 10/19/2005 01:03:44 PM
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Ferg,
It will get worse.
I've been sitting at the airport for the last 2 months waiting for the
MD-RA to allow me the privilege of a temporary C of A.
At the moment they are questioning the phenolic firewall material that
forms part of the fuselage, and the use of the Skydrive carb heat system.
If there are any Canadian registered 912S powered Europas using Skydrive
or similar, I would appreciate hearing from them, or from anyone else who
can confirm the efficacy of the system.
Now with regard to your stainless steel firewall, you should not have let
me have Graham's phenolic one. It works great, and I just don't see how
anyone ever got the stainless cut outs to fit well.
In a rather depressed mood
.Dave C-FBZI
"Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
10/19/2005 12:22 PM
Please respond to europa-list
To: "EUROPALIST" <europa-list@matronics.com>
cc:
Subject: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Cheers,
I diligently fabricated the subject sheets according to the
diagrams
in the book, bending the edges as per the pictures and accurately siting
the
attachment holes. ........and most of it went together pretty well (not
too
many scratches and rims neatly filed for safety) - but not on the
engine
frame!
I'm having the darnest time trying to fit the starboard side
panel,
feeding it through the spaces past the rudder flanges and attempting to
fiddle it past the bottom frame ends. All the others will doubtless fall
in
place.
Are there magic incantations to be said, or strange powder to be
strewed in strategic places? If not, I'm in a bad spell here at
Belli Acres.
Happy landings (mine are getting further away all the time),
Ferg
Message 10
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"\"\"europa-list@matronics.com\"\"" <europa-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Re: monowheel trailer |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Hillam" <sqwk7000@cotswoldwireless.co.uk>
My M/C plates were made by Halfords about two and a half years ago - no
problem. I'm not aware that UK law has changed since then.
David
G-SHSH
(still for sale)
A motorcycle rear plate would fit there so I
> tried to buy one form Halfords, but they and others will not supply one
> for a registration assigned to a car. More than their job's worth
> apparently.
Message 11
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| Subject: | SkyDrive Carb heat system |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com wrote:
> It will get worse. I've been sitting at the airport for
> the last 2 months waiting for the MD-RA to allow me the
> privilege of a temporary C of A. At the moment they are
> questioning the phenolic firewall material that forms
> part of the fuselage, and the use of the Skydrive carb
> heat system.
>
> If there are any Canadian registered 912S powered
> Europas using Skydrive or similar, I would appreciate
> hearing from them, or from anyone else who can confirm
> the efficacy of the system.
>
> Now with regard to your stainless steel firewall, you
> should not have let me have Graham's phenolic one. It
> works great, and I just don't see how anyone ever got
> the stainless cut outs to fit well.
>
> In a rather depressed mood
>
>
> .Dave C-FBZI
I can confirm that my 912S engined Europa has the SkyDrive
carb heat kit.
When the PFA was asked they said that this was a
recognised "mod" from the engine distributor and that the
only paperwork I had to go through was to have a PFA
Inspector sign it off after installation.
As the PFA is normally quite pedantic about requiring full
mod application (to themselves) - for them to accept the
SkyDrive carb heat kit was a sign that it was definitely OK !
I note that Lockwood also sells the same thing in the US
so I am not sure whether it is a Brit item, or a Rotax
item, or where it comes from.
Be advised though that the SkyDrive carb heat kit requires
HEAT in the water system. I have been reading
incredulously about builders who have baffled up the
tunnel and have no problems with cooling. Of course
"enough" cooling is fine in the summer and "overcooling"
in the winter is OK for the engine, but not for the carb
heaters.
In fact I see that there are three modes of flying
(although any position between them is also possible)
1. Take off on a very hot day
2. Cruise and descent on a cold day
3. Take off on a cold day/cruise on a hot day
It is not possible to have a fixed baffle set-up which
produces optimum air-flow in the radiators to keep the
temps in the best band (80 - 90 C) at all times.
Adjustable baffles are needed.
Now there are NO thermostats in the engine - water or oil
Ideally an oil thermostat could be used which would allow
quicker warm up, and the radiator (which is too big) could
be uncovered so that hot weather cooling was improved.
Such a thermostat is available from Lockwood in the US
($60 !) and also from Franz the German Rotax
distributors.Unfortunately the PFA intheir wisdom have not
accepted either of these oil thermostats for use here
without he "full mod application process".
The PFA when asked about it told me to talk to Nigel Beale
of SkyDrive. He admitted that he had put an oil
thermostat on one of his 912 enigines in the past but so
far he hasn't responded to a request for the PFA mod
number under which it was approved. I suspect that as a
"engine manufacturer" he could do that without PFA formal
mod (similar to the way Europa made several changes and
experiments with G-KITZ !)
--
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842804 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Stainless steel Firewall |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
Hi Dave,
I am shocked to hear some moron would question your choice to install
a safety feature like the Skydrive carb heat. Providing carb heat via
the engine coolant is superior to the more common exhaust muff, because
it does not rob the engine of power, and can therefore be left on all
the time. Our neighbor at the airport crashed his plane in Nevada this
summer because of carb ice, losing power on short final. He got busy
with other things and forgot to turn on carb heat. He and his wife were
lucky to survive.
We have an XS with 912S that has had the Skydrive installed from the
beginning. We have been flying four years and over 400 hours. We have
tested the engine performance with the carb heat on and off, with no
difference in power. We were having an unrelated problem (turned out to
be vapor lock) and flew for a while with the carb heat normally off.
During that time we experienced carb ice on the ground and in the air,
so we know that the 912S in an XS can get carb ice. On both instances,
the rough running went away in seconds once the carb heat was turned on.
Terry Seaver
A135 / N135TD
Pleasanton, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Ferg,
It will get worse.
I've been sitting at the airport for the last 2 months waiting for the
MD-RA to allow me the privilege of a temporary C of A.
At the moment they are questioning the phenolic firewall material that
forms part of the fuselage, and the use of the Skydrive carb heat
system.
If there are any Canadian registered 912S powered Europas using Skydrive
or similar, I would appreciate hearing from them, or from anyone else
who can confirm the efficacy of the system.
Now with regard to your stainless steel firewall, you should not have
let me have Graham's phenolic one. It works great, and I just don't see
how anyone ever got the stainless cut outs to fit well.
In a rather depressed mood
.Dave C-FBZI
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: monowheel trailer |
--> Europa-List message posted by: NevEyre@aol.com
Trying to buy anything from Halfords can be a task, they only employ Muppets
!
To get a number plate made now, anywhere, needs the Log Book for the car,
and some form of I.D. for the person collecting them.Supposed to stop crooks,
but they will have their own kit to make plates anyway !
Most Motor Factors will do them, either square or rectangular.
Cheers,
Nev.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Stainless steel Firewall |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.us>
Sorry, Ferg, but that's as good as it gets. I've made the @#$%
&* stainless
steel firewall assembly twice and I don't like either one. The holes
required to clear the full range of rudder cable movement are so big that I
wonder why we even bother with a "firewall" at all, and it certainly makes
no sense to seal the overlaps in the sheet metal when there are those gaping
holes.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Cheers,
I diligently fabricated the subject sheets according to the diagrams
in the book, bending the edges as per the pictures and accurately siting the
attachment holes. ........and most of it went together pretty well (not too
many scratches and rims neatly filed for safety) - but not on the engine
frame!
I'm having the darnest time trying to fit the starboard side panel,
feeding it through the spaces past the rudder flanges and attempting to
fiddle it past the bottom frame ends. All the others will doubtless fall in
place.
Are there magic incantations to be said, or strange powder to be
strewed in strategic places? If not, I'm in a bad spell here at
Belli Acres.
Happy landings (mine are getting further away all the time),
Ferg
Message 15
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| Subject: | Stainless steel Firewall |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Ferg.
Mine finished up to be a lash up too so I flashed it all round with
firestop mastic. I'd expect you to have to bend it to locate it then
straighten it insitu!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Cheers,
I diligently fabricated the subject sheets according to the
diagrams
in the book, bending the edges as per the pictures and accurately siting
the
attachment holes. ........and most of it went together pretty well (not
too
many scratches and rims neatly filed for safety) - but not on the
engine
frame!
I'm having the darnest time trying to fit the starboard side
panel,
feeding it through the spaces past the rudder flanges and attempting to
fiddle it past the bottom frame ends. All the others will doubtless fall
in
place.
Are there magic incantations to be said, or strange powder to be
strewed in strategic places? If not, I'm in a bad spell here at
Belli Acres.
Happy landings (mine are getting further away all the time),
Ferg
Message 16
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| Subject: | monowheel trailer |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Paul
I had similar problems getting a bog standard one for my caravan when I
changed cars....had to produce my registration certificate !(The way
they went on about it I nearly had to take the bloody van down to their
works.
Story is that it is to resist the car thieves. I think it may be more
harmonisation with Europe related.!!!!!! The transport authorities have
the plate makers by the "short and curlies" to have traceability. I've
also had problems getting a plate for my aircraft trailer tow board. I
can agree with some standardisation because you see some very spurious
plates about but they never seem to get their "collar felt"!
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul
atkinson
Subject: Europa-List: monowheel trailer
--> Europa-List message posted by: "paul atkinson"
<paul@theatkinsons.demon.co.uk>
A while ago I aquired a monowheel trailer. The previous owner had the
car
registration painted on an ali sheet above the light cluster. Apparently
this is no longer legal. A motorcycle rear plate would fit there so I
tried to buy one form Halfords, but they and others will not supply one
for a registration assigned to a car. More than their job's worth
apparently.
Being a law abiding citizen (some of the time)I thought it best to try
and
find out what the legal situation is. I spoke to the DVLA after not
finding anything useful on their website. They passed me on to the Dept
of
Transport (no joy there) who passed me on to the British Standards
Institute (I don't know why either) who in turn said I should talk to
the
DVLA. Aaarghhhhhhh. That is the short version of the story.
In the end I spoke to Constable Plod at the local nick (name and address
withheld to protect the innocent)who didn't think a motorcycle plate was
illegal, but in any case as there are so many adulterated plates in use,
which they haven't got the manpower to deal with, no-one in their right
mind is likely to pull me over. He also told me that I can get a plate
made by any of the merchants who advertise on ebay. They will make them
in
any shape you like, in any font, any colour, and any size, and with the
badge of your favourite football team or the Europa logo if you wish.
The purpose of this ramble is to ask if there is anyone who knows what
the
law is, or have you all followed PC Plod's advice? :-)
Regards
Paul Atkinson
Message 17
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| Subject: | SkyDrive Carb heat system |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
I'm afraid I will have to disagree here on one point. It is only
necessary to get the carb temperature above 0 deg C to melt the ice. I
find it hard to believe a standard XS with 912S installation (without
thermostats) will not get the coolant to at least 150 deg F, even on a
very cool day. We have seen coolant temps higher than that in the
winter time at 12,500 feet.
On the occasion when we had carb ice on the ground, it was during the
runnup procedure, and the carb heat immediately cured the problem when
turned on, with coolant temps well below 150 deg F.
Regards,
Terry Seaver
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Holder
Subject: Europa-List: SkyDrive Carb heat system
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com wrote:
> It will get worse. I've been sitting at the airport for the last 2
> months waiting for the MD-RA to allow me the privilege of a temporary
> C of A. At the moment they are questioning the phenolic firewall
> material that forms part of the fuselage, and the use of the Skydrive
> carb heat system.
>
> If there are any Canadian registered 912S powered Europas using
> Skydrive or similar, I would appreciate hearing from them, or from
> anyone else who can confirm the efficacy of the system.
>
> Now with regard to your stainless steel firewall, you should not have
> let me have Graham's phenolic one. It works great, and I just don't
> see how anyone ever got the stainless cut outs to fit well.
>
> In a rather depressed mood
>
>
> .Dave C-FBZI
I can confirm that my 912S engined Europa has the SkyDrive carb heat
kit.
When the PFA was asked they said that this was a recognised "mod" from
the engine distributor and that the only paperwork I had to go through
was to have a PFA Inspector sign it off after installation.
As the PFA is normally quite pedantic about requiring full mod
application (to themselves) - for them to accept the SkyDrive carb heat
kit was a sign that it was definitely OK !
I note that Lockwood also sells the same thing in the US so I am not
sure whether it is a Brit item, or a Rotax item, or where it comes from.
Be advised though that the SkyDrive carb heat kit requires HEAT in the
water system. I have been reading incredulously about builders who have
baffled up the tunnel and have no problems with cooling. Of course
"enough" cooling is fine in the summer and "overcooling"
in the winter is OK for the engine, but not for the carb heaters.
In fact I see that there are three modes of flying (although any
position between them is also possible)
1. Take off on a very hot day
2. Cruise and descent on a cold day
3. Take off on a cold day/cruise on a hot day
It is not possible to have a fixed baffle set-up which produces optimum
air-flow in the radiators to keep the temps in the best band (80 - 90 C)
at all times.
Adjustable baffles are needed.
Now there are NO thermostats in the engine - water or oil
Ideally an oil thermostat could be used which would allow quicker warm
up, and the radiator (which is too big) could be uncovered so that hot
weather cooling was improved.
Such a thermostat is available from Lockwood in the US ($60 !) and also
from Franz the German Rotax distributors.Unfortunately the PFA intheir
wisdom have not accepted either of these oil thermostats for use here
without he "full mod application process".
The PFA when asked about it told me to talk to Nigel Beale of SkyDrive.
He admitted that he had put an oil thermostat on one of his 912 enigines
in the past but so far he hasn't responded to a request for the PFA mod
number under which it was approved. I suspect that as a "engine
manufacturer" he could do that without PFA formal mod (similar to the
way Europa made several changes and experiments with G-KITZ !)
--
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842804 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Message 18
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| Subject: | Stainless steel Firewall |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
So what is the general opinion on this one - composite?? Ceramic blanket?
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Ferg.
Mine finished up to be a lash up too so I flashed it all round with
firestop mastic. I'd expect you to have to bend it to locate it then
straighten it insitu!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Cheers,
I diligently fabricated the subject sheets according to the
diagrams
in the book, bending the edges as per the pictures and accurately siting
the
attachment holes. ........and most of it went together pretty well (not
too
many scratches and rims neatly filed for safety) - but not on the
engine
frame!
I'm having the darnest time trying to fit the starboard side
panel,
feeding it through the spaces past the rudder flanges and attempting to
fiddle it past the bottom frame ends. All the others will doubtless fall
in
place.
Are there magic incantations to be said, or strange powder to be
strewed in strategic places? If not, I'm in a bad spell here at
Belli Acres.
Happy landings (mine are getting further away all the time),
Ferg
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Stainless steel Firewall |
10/19/2005 04:11:56 PM,
Serialize complete at 10/19/2005 04:11:56 PM
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
I'm not sure if Graham Singleton still makes the moulded phenolic fire
walls, but they really make an impossible task easy. More important it is
possible to take the firewall off if you need to.
I have my bloodied stainless steel bits hanging on the workshop wall.
Dave C-FBZI
do not archive
"William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
10/19/2005 03:59 PM
Please respond to europa-list
To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
cc:
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
So what is the general opinion on this one - composite?? Ceramic blanket?
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Ferg.
Mine finished up to be a lash up too so I flashed it all round with
firestop mastic. I'd expect you to have to bend it to locate it then
straighten it insitu!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Cheers,
I diligently fabricated the subject sheets according to the
diagrams
in the book, bending the edges as per the pictures and accurately siting
the
attachment holes. ........and most of it went together pretty well (not
too
many scratches and rims neatly filed for safety) - but not on the
engine
frame!
I'm having the darnest time trying to fit the starboard side
panel,
feeding it through the spaces past the rudder flanges and attempting to
fiddle it past the bottom frame ends. All the others will doubtless fall
in
place.
Are there magic incantations to be said, or strange powder to be
strewed in strategic places? If not, I'm in a bad spell here at
Belli Acres.
Happy landings (mine are getting further away all the time),
Ferg
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Stainless steel Firewall |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
How do I get this (sounds like) very necessary item? Or do I make it from
ACS components?
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
I'm not sure if Graham Singleton still makes the moulded phenolic fire
walls, but they really make an impossible task easy. More important it is
possible to take the firewall off if you need to.
I have my bloodied stainless steel bits hanging on the workshop wall.
Dave C-FBZI
do not archive
"William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
10/19/2005 03:59 PM
Please respond to europa-list
To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
cc:
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
So what is the general opinion on this one - composite?? Ceramic blanket?
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Ferg.
Mine finished up to be a lash up too so I flashed it all round with
firestop mastic. I'd expect you to have to bend it to locate it then
straighten it insitu!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Cheers,
I diligently fabricated the subject sheets according to the
diagrams
in the book, bending the edges as per the pictures and accurately siting
the
attachment holes. ........and most of it went together pretty well (not
too
many scratches and rims neatly filed for safety) - but not on the
engine
frame!
I'm having the darnest time trying to fit the starboard side
panel,
feeding it through the spaces past the rudder flanges and attempting to
fiddle it past the bottom frame ends. All the others will doubtless fall
in
place.
Are there magic incantations to be said, or strange powder to be
strewed in strategic places? If not, I'm in a bad spell here at
Belli Acres.
Happy landings (mine are getting further away all the time),
Ferg
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: SkyDrive Carb heat system |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
> I'm afraid I will have to disagree here on one point.
> It is only necessary to get the carb temperature above
> 0 deg C to melt the ice. I find it hard to believe a
> standard XS with 912S installation (without
> thermostats) will not get the coolant to at least 150
> deg F, even on a very cool day. We have seen coolant
> temps higher than that in the winter time at 12,500
> feet. On the occasion when we had carb ice on the
> ground, it was during the runnup procedure, and the
> carb heat immediately cured the problem when turned on,
> with coolant temps well below 150 deg F.
While you make a good point, there are other factors.
The water in the SkyDrive units is 20 - 30 mm from the
actual butterfly, and more like 60 - 70 mm from the jet
orifice which is where the problem occurs
The pipe to the SkyDrive units is fairly small bore
The water flow to the SkyDrive units is cooled water (it
bypasses the heads where it is heated up !)
If you have the standard two holes behind the spinner you
will get a large amount of cold air getting into the
cowling doing its best to negate the effect of the
SkyDrive units.
I believe the figure for carb ice is 2 degrees C not zero.
One carb (port) is more susceptical to carb ice than the
other as there is a nice hot oil tank on the right hand
side restricting the flow of cold air !
At 12,500 feet the temp was 25 degrees Celsius less than
at ground level. Carb ice will not be a problem at 5, 10
or 15 degrees below freezing as there is little water in
the air to freeze in the carb.
At 12,500 feet you are working the engine very hard and so
plenty of heat is being produced (maybe !)
I had quite a bit of stuttering from my engine last
winter, which I attributed to carb ice. WIth the kit I
just get a small stutter about every 30 - 40 minutes in
the cruise. This year I will have comprehensive "bypass
the radiators" baffling for winter and I will report back
on the success (or otherwise !)
I would still like to put an oil thermostat on, but I have
work to do with the PFA !
Anyways - we all have our opinions and yours is no better
or worse than mine :-) [and I am ready to be shot down in
flames !]
Richard
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | RE: Stainless steel Firewall |
0.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty
--> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Sorry, my mistake.
Graham gave me the pictures a long time ago, and they were on the site, but restricted
from view. Corrected now. And i was wondering why so few people seemed
to know about them. So go to gallery, second page, select Graham, select the
europamods album. There is more interesting stuff there!. Until very recently
he was making these firewalls on order so if you are interested:
contact Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: SkyDrive Carb heat system |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Richard and All
I have the SkyDrive Carb Heater and think they work very well.
One thing you said is not the way I installed mine. I followed the instruction
that came with my kit (I believe) and installed a "T" in the hose coming out
of the #2 head. There out hose goes into the hose between the pot and the radiator.
It is my belief that this is the hottest water I can get.
I know for a fact that the carb temp rises instantly when the water valve I installed
is turned on and heat is applied to the SkyDrive heater blocks.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Holder
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: SkyDrive Carb heat system
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
> I'm afraid I will have to disagree here on one point.
> It is only necessary to get the carb temperature above
> 0 deg C to melt the ice. I find it hard to believe a
> standard XS with 912S installation (without
> thermostats) will not get the coolant to at least 150
> deg F, even on a very cool day. We have seen coolant
> temps higher than that in the winter time at 12,500
> feet. On the occasion when we had carb ice on the
> ground, it was during the runnup procedure, and the
> carb heat immediately cured the problem when turned on,
> with coolant temps well below 150 deg F.
While you make a good point, there are other factors.
The water in the SkyDrive units is 20 - 30 mm from the
actual butterfly, and more like 60 - 70 mm from the jet
orifice which is where the problem occurs
The pipe to the SkyDrive units is fairly small bore
The water flow to the SkyDrive units is cooled water (it
bypasses the heads where it is heated up !)
If you have the standard two holes behind the spinner you
will get a large amount of cold air getting into the
cowling doing its best to negate the effect of the
SkyDrive units.
I believe the figure for carb ice is 2 degrees C not zero.
One carb (port) is more susceptical to carb ice than the
other as there is a nice hot oil tank on the right hand
side restricting the flow of cold air !
At 12,500 feet the temp was 25 degrees Celsius less than
at ground level. Carb ice will not be a problem at 5, 10
or 15 degrees below freezing as there is little water in
the air to freeze in the carb.
At 12,500 feet you are working the engine very hard and so
plenty of heat is being produced (maybe !)
I had quite a bit of stuttering from my engine last
winter, which I attributed to carb ice. WIth the kit I
just get a small stutter about every 30 - 40 minutes in
the cruise. This year I will have comprehensive "bypass
the radiators" baffling for winter and I will report back
on the success (or otherwise !)
I would still like to put an oil thermostat on, but I have
work to do with the PFA !
Anyways - we all have our opinions and yours is no better
or worse than mine :-) [and I am ready to be shot down in
flames !]
Richard
Message 24
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| Subject: | RE: Stainless steel Firewall |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
Thanks - Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of josok
Subject: Europa-List: RE: Stainless steel Firewall
--> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Sorry, my mistake.
Graham gave me the pictures a long time ago, and they were on the site, but
restricted from view. Corrected now. And i was wondering why so few people
seemed to know about them. So go to gallery, second page, select Graham,
select the europamods album. There is more interesting stuff there!. Until
very recently he was making these firewalls on order so if you are
interested:
contact Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Naca / Paint |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "JR(Bob) Gowing" <gowingjr@acr.net.au>
Got onto the site http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p7936#7936
downloaded two essays but the only thing that showed up on screen was a
logo on top left cnr of each page.......
Any ideas what my problem might be?
JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Naca / Paint
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
>
> Very interesting reading. Thanks ! I wish I knew enough to design and
build a new lower cowling for my XS. What I did is better than stock, but
people tell me the cowling could be better.
>
> Cliff Shaw
> 1041 Euclid ave.
> Edmonds, WA 98020
> 425 776 5555
> http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: SteveD
> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:15 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: RE: Naca / Paint
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
>
> Googled up some reading on air flow from Cafe Foundation. Part II has
some good stuff about inlets and extractors ...
>
> http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p7936#7936
>
> Steved
> ----------------
> Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Naca / Paint |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Bob
The link is point to a noexisting file. Try http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?t2325
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
----- Original Message -----
From: JR(Bob) Gowing
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 4:05 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Naca / Paint
--> Europa-List message posted by: "JR(Bob) Gowing" <gowingjr@acr.net.au>
Got onto the site http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p7936#7936
downloaded two essays but the only thing that showed up on screen was a
logo on top left cnr of each page.......
Any ideas what my problem might be?
JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Naca / Paint
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
>
> Very interesting reading. Thanks ! I wish I knew enough to design and
build a new lower cowling for my XS. What I did is better than stock, but
people tell me the cowling could be better.
>
> Cliff Shaw
> 1041 Euclid ave.
> Edmonds, WA 98020
> 425 776 5555
> http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: SteveD
> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 6:15 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: RE: Naca / Paint
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
>
> Googled up some reading on air flow from Cafe Foundation. Part II has
some good stuff about inlets and extractors ...
>
> http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p7936#7936
>
> Steved
> ----------------
> Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | RE: Stainless steel Firewall |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
Quick URL to Graham's stuff
http://www.europaowners.org/Graham
Docs:
http://www.europaowners.org/dlman.php?func=select_folder&folder_id=16
Although all we have in the docs section is Graham's tail wheel mod PDF.
Chat Later,
Steved.
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
Message 28
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| Subject: | RE: Naca / Paint |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
Ahhh Pronoun trouble... ( Sorry to many Daffy Duck cartoons as a kid )
Seems some email packages are cutting characters from the php generated urls.
Go to www.EuropaOwners.org
Look down the list to:
Document Storage
PDF, Word, Docs Put them here....
The Articles are under:
Cafe Foundation Air Fow Essays.
Sorry for the confusion,
Steved.
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
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