---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/24/05: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:55 AM - (Richard Holder) 2. 03:50 AM - Wilson and the PFA (Nigel Graham) 3. 04:20 AM - Re: Wilson and the PFA (Alan Burrows) 4. 04:25 AM - Re: Wilson and the PFA (Nigel Graham) 5. 04:43 AM - Re: Wilson and the PFA (David Hillam) 6. 04:47 AM - Re: Wilson and the PFA (Jeremy Davey) 7. 04:50 AM - 914 Air baffle (ivor.phillips) 8. 05:42 AM - Re: Stainless steel Firewall (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com) 9. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: Wilson and the PFA () 10. 07:32 AM - Re: Alternator (John & Paddy Wigney) 11. 08:21 AM - Re: 914 Air baffle/Oil cooler thermostat (G-IANI) 12. 08:29 AM - Re: Wilson and the PFA (Trevpond@aol.com) 13. 08:48 AM - Re: 914 Air baffle/Oil cooler thermostat (ivor.phillips) 14. 08:48 AM - Re: Wilson and the PFA (David Hillam) 15. 09:44 AM - Oil cooler thermostat (Richard Holder) 16. 10:02 AM - Re: Wilson and the PFA (lmorgan822@aol.com) 17. 02:36 PM - Re: (Without Prejudice) (R.C.Harrison) 18. 02:36 PM - Stiction (BEBERRY@aol.com) 19. 07:36 PM - Re: 914 Air baffle/Oil cooler thermostat (Paul McAllister) 20. 07:49 PM - Re: 914 Air baffle () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:55:09 AM PST US From: Richard Holder --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder I see the PFA have used a Keith Wilson picture on the front cover of the November magazine and for one or two inside. Time for another orchestrated series of complaints to their chief exec Graham Newby -- Richard Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842804 (fax) Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:38 AM PST US From: "Nigel Graham" Subject: Europa-List: Wilson and the PFA --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" Richard, Have you read the diatribe on Page 50 by Messrs Wilson and Hope, with Brian Hope, praising the good Mr Wilson and expressing regret over "some disquiet amongst a small number of members". Time for some serious representation I feel. Nigel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holder" --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder I see the PFA have used a Keith Wilson picture on the front cover of the November magazine and for one or two inside. Time for another orchestrated series of complaints to their chief exec Graham Newby -- Richard Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842804 (fax) Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:02 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wilson and the PFA --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" I haven't seen the publication as yet, but if they are trying to sneak Mr Wilson back into favour, then I agree, its time for another round of "comment" from as many people as we can muster. Please lets not allow this clown back into our midst. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Graham Subject: Europa-List: Wilson and the PFA --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" --> Richard, Have you read the diatribe on Page 50 by Messrs Wilson and Hope, with Brian Hope, praising the good Mr Wilson and expressing regret over "some disquiet amongst a small number of members". Time for some serious representation I feel. Nigel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holder" --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder I see the PFA have used a Keith Wilson picture on the front cover of the November magazine and for one or two inside. Time for another orchestrated series of complaints to their chief exec Graham Newby -- Richard Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842804 (fax) Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:46 AM PST US From: "Nigel Graham" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wilson and the PFA --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" Sorry Guys .............that was intended for Richard and not the group. N ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:08 AM PST US From: "David Hillam" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wilson and the PFA --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Hillam" I also suffered at the hands of KW, but only to a very minor degree compared with others. I am no friend of his but I think that the approach of some Europhiles is wrong. I am not a laywer, but I understand that trading whilst knowingly insolvent is a criminal offence. I think this is the allegation that some people have made against KW. The people who should know whether this is the case, or not, are the official Administrators (if that is the correct term). We should be challenging them to make a proper investigation (if not already done) and, if the evidence is there, persuade them to bring charges. If the evidence is not there, I'm afraid we should bite the bullet and shut up, otherwise we leave ourselves open to the charge of libel. (IMHO and not knowing all the facts). David G-SHSH > I haven't seen the publication as yet, but if they are trying to sneak > Mr Wilson back into favour, then I agree, its time for another round of > "comment" from as many people as we can muster. Please lets not allow > this clown back into our midst. > > Have you read the diatribe on Page 50 by Messrs Wilson and Hope, with > Brian > Hope, praising the good Mr Wilson and expressing regret over "some > disquiet > amongst a small number of members". > Time for some serious representation I feel. > > Nigel > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:05 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wilson and the PFA --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Hold steady, chaps, before we get carried away. Let's look into this and decide the best response before we start firing salvos, potentially at the wrong people. As an EC Member, this is the first intimation I've seen of KW's letter and BH's response. I would have expected more notice. As Europa Club Vice-Chairman, this is the first intimation I've seen of the proposed trust fund. I would have expected more notice. I'm in the middle of moving house, but will try to do some digging. Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1430 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Burrows Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wilson and the PFA --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" I haven't seen the publication as yet, but if they are trying to sneak Mr Wilson back into favour, then I agree, its time for another round of "comment" from as many people as we can muster. Please lets not allow this clown back into our midst. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nigel Graham Subject: Europa-List: Wilson and the PFA --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" --> Richard, Have you read the diatribe on Page 50 by Messrs Wilson and Hope, with Brian Hope, praising the good Mr Wilson and expressing regret over "some disquiet amongst a small number of members". Time for some serious representation I feel. Nigel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holder" --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder I see the PFA have used a Keith Wilson picture on the front cover of the November magazine and for one or two inside. Time for another orchestrated series of complaints to their chief exec Graham Newby -- Richard Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842804 (fax) Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:20 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Europa-List: 914 Air baffle --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" Anybody using the Rotax engine cooling air baffle (975796) on a 914, And if so did you have any appreciable drop in cylinder head temps, Also i believe that sealing two of the four top cowling slots per side helps to direct more air across the engine for better cooling, Rotax service letter SL-914-009 recommend fitting a oil thermostat in cooler climates, Any PFA mod approved for this installation, Or anybody considering doing this in the near future? Any Views on these would be a help, Thanks Ivor XS 486 Tri-Gear ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall From: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com 24/10/2005 08:41:14 AM, Serialize complete at 24/10/2005 08:41:14 AM --> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com Peter and Chris Timm Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com 10/23/2005 03:02 PM Please respond to europa-list To: cc: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stainless steel Firewall Thanks Peter, Your article in the COPA newsletter was excellent, it's a pity that it was only available to Canadian readers - has a copy gone to the Europa Flyer ? I'm trying to persuade the local inspector to accept my carb heat system, and every bit of information that I can assemble will help. I'm told that Wayne Juniper from transport will be contacting the PFA re the Skydrive, I hope the response is positive. I have cabin heat, taking air from the duct on the bottom right side of the cowling, over a glove on the muffler, through an air box to the cabin. If push comes to shove, I can modify this to provide heat to the air box, but it will end up being a redundant system Dave A061 > Dave, You wanted to now, if anybody in B.C. or Alberta is flying without the benefits of carb heat. My 912 S powered Classic has been operating for 265 hrs with a modified air-box, which operates with combustion air from a Naca inlet in the lower cowling and can be switched to combustion air from inside the cowling when icing occurs. It is very hot under the Classics cowling! The interesting part is ,that I have never had to use this hot air option, even though we have crossed the Coastal Range and the Rockies several times and flown all the way to the Maritimes and the Yukon with never any indication of carb ice ( read the story in the October Copa Newsletter ).The air is routed from the Naca inlet through 3" Scat tubing into a homebuilt distributing box on top of the airbox, then through the flat JR filter into the airbox. Within the Scat tube I installed a 3" x 2" " Y" , which provides cockpit ventilation air to two metal eye-ball vents in the lower centre of the cockpit module. Works very well. I believe that the XS cowling does not provide as much heat as the Classic , which in many ways is good. I still do not fully understand , why some Europa owners have problems with carb ice. I frequently fly at the condensation level with temperatures at the critical level with never a murmur from the Rotax, as I am sure, other Rotax operators do as well. These are my two-bits worth . Hope it helps. Peter Timm U.K. # 110 Pemberton, B.C. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:32 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RE: Europa-List: Wilson and the PFA --> Europa-List message posted by: After the previous representations, I was under the very strong impression from Graham Newby that we wouldn't be troubled by pictures from KW in the future. If this is not the case we need a way to make a collective representation where we can stand up and be counted - last time, he tried to dismiss the complaints as 'from one or two members' when we know that many of us contacted him. Could we set up a section on the Club forum where anyone who objects to the magazine having dealings with Mr wilson can leave an e-mail expressing this fact - once we have sufficient support, we can point Mr Newby at this site and ask for his response. Peter ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:09 AM PST US From: John & Paddy Wigney Subject: Re: Europa-List: Alternator --> Europa-List message posted by: John & Paddy Wigney Hi Patrick, I had a problem with an intermittent charge from my alternator at about 400 hours engine time. After consulting with Kerry at Lockwood Aviation in Sebring, I changed the Ducati voltage regulator. Result - problem fixed. Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S Mooresville, North Carolina <<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:33 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: 914 Air baffle/Oil cooler thermostat --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" Ivor Nobody I know of has done an oil thermostat for the Europa XS. I think the logic for this is that with the close coupling of the oil rad behind the water rad it is not needed on an XS. The man to ask is Nigel Beale of Skydrive. Skydrive have a water thermostat design which Nigel Beale has used on his own aircraft. I believe another copy may also be flying. I have a picture of the parts which I will send direct to you. When I discussed this with him at FFF Nigel has not had time to finalise it as a mod. If the demand is there I believe he will and I have offered to do the documentation to get it through as a Standard Mod. Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:48 AM PST US From: Trevpond@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wilson and the PFA --> Europa-List message posted by: Trevpond@aol.com Hi All, Unfortunately the Administrators would only be prepared to investigate further if someone was prepared to meet their costs. From our point of view that would be another huge waste of money because we would never get back any monies owed to us in any event! I'm afraid that KW will keep on winning. Trev G-LINN ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:19 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Air baffle/Oil cooler thermostat --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" Thanks Ian Thats useful to Know, Regards Ivor ----- Original Message ----- From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: 914 Air baffle/Oil cooler thermostat > --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" > > Ivor > > Nobody I know of has done an oil thermostat for the Europa XS. I think > the > logic for this is that with the close coupling of the oil rad behind the > water rad it is not needed on an XS. The man to ask is Nigel Beale of > Skydrive. > > > Skydrive have a water thermostat design which Nigel Beale has used on his > own aircraft. I believe another copy may also be flying. I have a > picture > of the parts which I will send direct to you. > > When I discussed this with him at FFF Nigel has not had time to finalise > it > as a mod. If the demand is there I believe he will and I have offered to > do > the documentation to get it through as a Standard Mod. > > > Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear > Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) > e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk > or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:45 AM PST US From: "David Hillam" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wilson and the PFA --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Hillam" It seems to be a very strange state of affairs if a suspected criminal offence can only be investigated if someone comes up with the costs of undertaking it! Am I in Cloud Cuckoo Land or Alice in Wonderland? David G-SHSH > --> Europa-List message posted by: Trevpond@aol.com > > Hi All, > > Unfortunately the Administrators would only be prepared to investigate > further if someone was prepared to meet their costs. From our point of view that > would be another huge waste of money because we would never get back any > monies owed to us in any event! I'm afraid that KW will keep on winning. > > > Trev > G-LINN > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:17 AM PST US From: Richard Holder Subject: Europa-List: Oil cooler thermostat --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder > Ivor > > Nobody I know of has done an oil thermostat for the > Europa XS. I think the logic for this is that with the > close coupling of the oil rad behind the water rad it > is not needed on an XS. The man to ask is Nigel Beale > of Skydrive. > > > Skydrive have a water thermostat design which Nigel > Beale has used on his own aircraft. I believe another > copy may also be flying. I have a picture of the parts > which I will send direct to you. > > When I discussed this with him at FFF Nigel has not had > time to finalise it as a mod. If the demand is there I > believe he will and I have offered to do the > documentation to get it through as a Standard Mod. > > > Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear As I said in an earlier post there are oil thermostats available from Franz in Germany and from Lockwood in the US ($60 !) Neither approved by the PFA ! Although two thermostats would increase the connectors and pipes it would be the best solution as the air could be all channelled through the radiators and the thermostats would control the oil and water temperatures to a sensible figure (82 - 90 C) at all times. Warm-up would be improved. I am debating with myself about which thermostat I would want if only one was available ..... If the water thermostat increased the water capacity I would probably go for that ... But on the other hand as there is plenty of oil capaciy which slows down warm-up, and oil thermostat would also be very useful. Hmmmmm ! Then, the range of acceptable oil temperatures is much wider than the water temperature range ... So veering towards a water thermostat ! But I can't see a UK available product being sold for 35 (=$60) ! Ian, would you send me those pictures of the water thermostat please ? rholder@avnet.co.uk TIA Nigel told me about an aircraft that he has sold which had an oil thermostat on it. But he hasn't replied (yet) after I asked him for the registration, or the current owner's name, or the PFA mod number under which it was done. Richard G-OWWW ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:01 AM PST US From: lmorgan822@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wilson and the PFA --> Europa-List message posted by: lmorgan822@aol.com KW is a prime example that crime does pay! He did try to sell me a FWF package in late June or 04 at a reduced price to go with the Phase II and III kits I didn't get. -----Original Message----- From: David Hillam Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wilson and the PFA --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Hillam" It seems to be a very strange state of affairs if a suspected criminal offence can only be investigated if someone comes up with the costs of undertaking it! Am I in Cloud Cuckoo Land or Alice in Wonderland? David G-SHSH > --> Europa-List message posted by: Trevpond@aol.com > > Hi All, > > Unfortunately the Administrators would only be prepared to investigate > further if someone was prepared to meet their costs. From our point of view that > would be another huge waste of money because we would never get back any > monies owed to us in any event! I'm afraid that KW will keep on winning. > > > Trev > G-LINN > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:36:04 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Richard Graham can't even reply to mail two months old so I can't expect you to get any prompt action !!! I'm afraid the British system of legal justice on such blatant illegal trading does nothing for bringing such people as the perpetrator "to book". I have a string of similar bad debt accounts during my business career so you have to take the knocks with the smooth until the Criminal Prosecution Agency get their bums into gear! The misfortune here is that it is individual members of the general public who have their fingers burnt. BTW there is about as much chance of him suing for libel as a "snow ball in hell", because then he would have to air his "dirty linen" for all to see. I'm quite sure there are plenty of witnesses to prove the case against him anyway. IMHO the Europa Club should take the bull by the horns and get the PFA to maintain the agreed stance......Not occasionally but for all time so there's no way back for the jerk. Regards Bob Harrison. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Holder Subject: --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder I see the PFA have used a Keith Wilson picture on the front cover of the November magazine and for one or two inside. Time for another orchestrated series of complaints to their chief exec Graham Newby -- Richard Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842804 (fax) Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:36:15 PM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Stiction --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com Many thanks to all those who have come up with suggestions about how to remedy sticky throttle cables. I have drastically shortened the cables so that the run is as straight as possible, lubricated the outers with Sylkolene and doubled up on the return springs. All now working perfectly. Cheers , Patrick ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:39 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Air baffle/Oil cooler thermostat --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Guys, I believe Dave Anderson set something up for his motor glider. He was trying to prevent a cold slug of oil going through his system when he restarted the engine after an extended soaring session. Dave is no longer a member of the list, but can be contacted off list. Paul ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Air baffle From: --> Europa-List message posted by: Hello Ivor "Anybody using the Rotax engine cooling air baffle" We have and will be installing a Rotax cooling air baffle on our 914 XS Monowheel. I forget if it C or F but the drop in CHT is supposed to be 15 degrees. One downside is upon shut down it may hold in more heat??? I am not sure just how much extra drag will be created, especial if I can close up cowl flap?? We have both long and short wings. We are much in favor of providing ample cooling for severe conditions, and have ability to warm things up/reduce drag if desirable. In addition to cooling air baffle, will drop water and oil radiators and seal well, and streamline air intake a bit. May even waste some time and try and fabricate a slick looking cooling air brow as seen on Katana Extreme Motorglider. Will be installing a Mocal oil thermostat, which I hear is superior to Lockwoods offered oil thermostat. Will begin with 190 degree F. Even when closed, it allows bout 10% through flow. Will also be installing an in-flight adjustable aft cowl flap. Will also fool with a rich button, that will probably equate to cooler running if needed. If less than 108% power is being produced, the solenoid will select airbox pressure instead of impact air. I will be installing a switch that can select impact air below 108%. I anticipate it will lower temperatures on a fine running motor in hot conditions. Higher than airbox pressure run to float bowl will equate to a richer mixture. On a motor that has run out of water, low or out of oil, leaking intake either at boot or other, leaking float bowl vent line, clogged or leaking carb or trying to run lean for some reason, I don't mind having the rich button at my call at all. I have 2 EGTs, left and right. Also selectable 2 CHTs. These should give somewhat a clue if 1 side is going south. I am also installing a slick Split Second mixture display that is driven by a O2 sensor. I will weld a bung on the muffler just after the turbo flange to hold the sensor. This should give a good indication along with other how overall things are doing. Will be installing a DC-3 windshield washer needle valve on the panel, that will allow me to lean mixture by leaking airbox pressure to manifold, thus reducing floatbowl pressure compared to airbox pressure. Ron Parigoris N4211W