---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/25/05: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:12 AM - Re: Re: (Without Prejudice) () 2. 01:53 AM - Re: Re: (Without Prejudice) (Alan Burrows) 3. 03:47 AM - Re: Re: (Without Prejudice) (Alan Burrows) 4. 05:27 AM - Re: 914 Air baffle (Paul McAllister) 5. 10:32 AM - mounting base for finger brake cylinder (Bruce) 6. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: (Without Prejudice) (Carl Pattinson) 7. 11:09 AM - Wilson and the PFA (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 8. 11:17 AM - Re: mounting base for finger brake cylinder (G-IANI) 9. 11:24 AM - Re: Oil cooler thermostat (Pete Lawless) 10. 11:29 AM - Throttle Cables. (Erich Trombley) 11. 11:33 AM - Re: mounting base for finger brake cylinder (William Daniell) 12. 11:44 AM - Re: mounting base for finger brake cylinder (KARL HEINDL) 13. 12:00 PM - Re: 914 Air baffle (Ronald J. Parigoris) 14. 12:02 PM - Re: mounting base for finger brake cylinder (KARL HEINDL) 15. 12:40 PM - Re: mounting base for finger brake cylinder (Cliff Shaw) 16. 12:49 PM - Re: 914 Air baffle (Duncan McFadyean) 17. 12:49 PM - Re: mounting base for finger brake cylinder (William Daniell) 18. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: (Without Prejudice) (Duncan McFadyean) 19. 01:54 PM - Re: mounting base for finger brake cylinder (Cliff Shaw) 20. 03:15 PM - Re: mounting base for finger brake cylinder (KARL HEINDL) 21. 03:23 PM - Re: Re: (Without Prejudice) (lmorgan822@aol.com) 22. 03:43 PM - Re: mounting base for finger brake cylinder (Cliff Shaw) 23. 05:03 PM - Re: mounting base for finger brake cylinder (Steve Crimm) 24. 08:26 PM - Re: Throttle Cables. (Fergus Kyle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:32 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) --> Europa-List message posted by: I was pretty disgusted with the bit that Brian Hope had written on the end of KWs atricle that went on about what a decent bloke KW was and how he was honest and reliable! I think that Brian has oversteped the lines of his remit by writing that and should print some articles by the poor unfortunates that parted with their hard earned and got nothing. We need to establish a way of making collective representation to the PFA and Brian Hope (without anoying everyone else outside the UK who are not in the PFA) - Any suggestions? ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:27 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Hey guys I still haven't seen this article, is it in the latest PFA mag and when did everyone get it? -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of peter.rees05@ntlworld.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) --> Europa-List message posted by: I was pretty disgusted with the bit that Brian Hope had written on the end of KWs atricle that went on about what a decent bloke KW was and how he was honest and reliable! I think that Brian has oversteped the lines of his remit by writing that and should print some articles by the poor unfortunates that parted with their hard earned and got nothing. We need to establish a way of making collective representation to the PFA and Brian Hope (without anoying everyone else outside the UK who are not in the PFA) - Any suggestions? ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:47:58 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" I have now finally read a copy of the letter written by KW published in the PFA magazine and I must say it typifies his "head in the clouds" attitude to the demise of EMIL. Is anyone interested in another concerted effort at the PFA or has anyone written to them in a personal capacity as yet? -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of peter.rees05@ntlworld.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) --> Europa-List message posted by: I was pretty disgusted with the bit that Brian Hope had written on the end of KWs atricle that went on about what a decent bloke KW was and how he was honest and reliable! I think that Brian has oversteped the lines of his remit by writing that and should print some articles by the poor unfortunates that parted with their hard earned and got nothing. We need to establish a way of making collective representation to the PFA and Brian Hope (without anoying everyone else outside the UK who are not in the PFA) - Any suggestions? ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:57 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Air baffle --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi Ron, I had a question about: >I am also installing a slick Split Second mixture display that is driven >by a O2 sensor. I will weld a bung on the muffler just after the turbo >flange to hold the sensor. This should give a good indication along with >other how overall things are doing. Will the sensor be affected by leaded fuel ? Paul do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:56 AM PST US From: "Bruce" Subject: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bruce" Greetings, I have a Jamar US2002X dual brake cylinder that I believe is quite similar if not identical to the hand brake Europa currently utilizes for Tri-Gears. I need to fabricate a mounting shelf for that brake cylinder and since I have a cut-down tunnel, I can't utilize the Europa Mod 65 which includes a molded mounting base for the brake cylinder. I looked at the un-dimensioned photos in the Mod 65 instructions and am guessing that the mounting base for the brake cylinder is located approximately 4.5 to 5 inches (11 to 13 CM) below the top of the tunnel. Can anyone verify this dimension for me? Does anyone wish that this distance was higher or lower? I did a quick search of the list archives and found entries that suggest the handles should be fabricated to be 7.5 inches in length measured from the pivot hole to the center of the knob. Thickness of aluminum ranged from 1/8 to 3/16 inch. Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on what has worked well for them? Thanks, Bruce XS142 Conventional Gear Tracy, CA ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:39 AM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) --> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Pattinson" Why are you disgusted that Keith Wilson and the PFA have put their side of the story. There is a premise in this country, that a person is innocent until proven guilty. Despite all the bad feeling and the fact that people have lost a lot of money there is no proof that it is Keiths fault. Is there any evidence that he funded a lavish lifestyle at the companys/ customers expense? The worst you can accuse him is of bad management and even that would be difficult to prove. Its a sad fact of life but aircraft manufacturers seem to get into financial trouble all the time. The list of companies that have gone out of business is endless. Companies go to the wall every day and people lose large sums as a result of it. Quite often the directors involved lose large sums too and sometimes their homes. I know this because I nearly lost my home and 300,000 in exactly the same way. At the end of the day I still lost a large sum of money and I am still repaying the debt, 5 years after the event. Keith Wilson has personally lost similar sums of money. The idea that he has walked away scott free is total rubbish. When a company gets into financial trouble there is a fine dividing line between going on when the company is losing money and pulling the plug before it is too late. The demise of the Rover group is a prime example. If managers/ directors pulled the plug at the first sign of financial difficulty there wouldnt be many companies left in business. Whatever Keith is alleged to have done, he is entitled to defend himself and to earn a living for himself and his family. I understand that people have had their dreams shattered and lost considerable amounts of money but all these things can be rebuilt with time. What has happened does not give anyone the right to conduct a personal vendetta against Keith or to insist that the PFA dosen't use his work. The fact that he is offered to make the recompense should be applauded and it is time this episode in the Europa's history was brought to a close and Keith was allowed to get on with his life. Carl Pattinson G-LABS PS: Just in case people want to accuse me of being biased I will tell you of my connection with Keith. Before he took the reins at EML I did business with him in his capacity of Aviation Photographer and I never had reason to question his personal integrity. I have had no dealings with him since the closure of EML nor is there any prospect of doing so as my company has closed. I have spoken to him once since that time to hear his side of the story, which in my opinion is only fair. I have also spoken to Graham Newby of the PFA. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > I was pretty disgusted with the bit that Brian Hope had written on the end > of KWs atricle that went on about what a decent bloke KW was and how he > was honest and reliable! I think that Brian has oversteped the lines of > his remit by writing that and should print some articles by the poor > unfortunates that parted with their hard earned and got nothing. > > We need to establish a way of making collective representation to the PFA > and Brian Hope (without anoying everyone else outside the UK who are not > in the PFA) - Any suggestions? > > > ----------------------------------------- > Email sent from www.ntlworld.com > Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software > Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:58 AM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Wilson and the PFA --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com In a message dated 10/25/2005 5:26:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes: > KW is a prime example that crime does pay! He did try to sell me a FWF > package > in late June or 04 at a reduced price to go with the Phase II and III kits I > didn't > get. > > Wilson tried to put the "hard sell" on me at Sun-N-Fun in April of 2004 to > purchase my FWF and engine so that it would be sure to "come on the next > container" and before "the price goes up". I think it was about two months later > that Europa Ltd went Tango Uniform. I could tell by talking to John Hurst that > year that something was up with Europa, Ltd, but he wouldn't say exactly > what. Something told me something was bad wrong because Wilson was trying way > too hard to get me to pay for a FWF kit compared to his demeanor regarding kits > and componets in previous discussions. Fortunately for me at the time I > wasn't quite ready for a FWF kit and I was looking hard at the Jabiru 3300 as my > engine of choice. It seems to me what KW needs is a good old fashion > Tennessee ass whoopin'......... > > Regards, > > John Lawton > Dunlap, TN > A-245 (Waiting on my new Sensenich hollow carbon prop so I can mount my > cowls) > > DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:18 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" Bruce You are right the Europa brake cylinder is the Jamar US2002X I will send you direct a photo of my installation bracket. Have a look and I can send you more details if needed. On the levers I would buy the Europa parts. They carry quite a load so strength and hardness are important as well as size. Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:24:50 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Oil cooler thermostat --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" Richard Have a word with Think Automotive 0208 568 1172. They do a couple of inline oil stats for the race/rally car market. I seem to remember they start at about 15 quid. They cannot fail such that the oil is cut off, it might not be cooled but it will flow. I was thinking of moving my oil cooler and installing one of these last year, but the hasle of dealling with the PFA put me off. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Holder Subject: Europa-List: Oil cooler thermostat --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder > Ivor > > Nobody I know of has done an oil thermostat for the > Europa XS. I think the logic for this is that with the > close coupling of the oil rad behind the water rad it > is not needed on an XS. The man to ask is Nigel Beale > of Skydrive. > > > Skydrive have a water thermostat design which Nigel > Beale has used on his own aircraft. I believe another > copy may also be flying. I have a picture of the parts > which I will send direct to you. > > When I discussed this with him at FFF Nigel has not had > time to finalise it as a mod. If the demand is there I believe he > will and I have offered to do the documentation to get it through as a > Standard Mod. > > > Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear As I said in an earlier post there are oil thermostats available from Franz in Germany and from Lockwood in the US ($60 !) Neither approved by the PFA ! Although two thermostats would increase the connectors and pipes it would be the best solution as the air could be all channelled through the radiators and the thermostats would control the oil and water temperatures to a sensible figure (82 - 90 C) at all times. Warm-up would be improved. I am debating with myself about which thermostat I would want if only one was available ..... If the water thermostat increased the water capacity I would probably go for that ... But on the other hand as there is plenty of oil capaciy which slows down warm-up, and oil thermostat would also be very useful. Hmmmmm ! Then, the range of acceptable oil temperatures is much wider than the water temperature range ... So veering towards a water thermostat ! But I can't see a UK available product being sold for 35 (=$60) ! Ian, would you send me those pictures of the water thermostat please ? rholder@avnet.co.uk TIA Nigel told me about an aircraft that he has sold which had an oil thermostat on it. But he hasn't replied (yet) after I asked him for the registration, or the current owner's name, or the PFA mod number under which it was done. Richard G-OWWW -- Checked by AVG Free Edition. 21/10/2005 -- Checked by AVG Free Edition. 21/10/2005 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:03 AM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: Throttle Cables. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Erich Trombley" Patrick, Regarding the throttle cables. Remove and throw away the inner cable and replace it with a solid Bowden cable/wire from ACS part number 05-15500. It comes with a metal casing that you will not need so discard it. You will need to form the end of the cable over an AN111 Cable Bushing and Redux in place. This will be attached to the standard Europa throttle lever. The open end attaches to the Rotax engine as per the manual. As an engineer I could never understand why Europa used a cable for the throttle linkage. Cables are designed for tension not compression. It is quite easy to kink a cable when using it in compression. The solid wire Bowden cable is designed for compressive loads. Also using the Bowden cables will over come and 'stiction' and there is virtually no play in the throttle linkage. Good luck Erich Trombley N28ET Classic Mono 914 Patrick wrote "Having just fitted two new (massively expensive) throttle cables to cure the apparent problem of 'stiction', I find that nothing has changed, Despite being meticulously careful in the fitting (no kinks etc) and following the build manual instructions, I cannot find a way to get the throttle cables to operate properly i.e. the throttle will not open when the lever is moved forward as the throttle lever spring does not overcome the friction between inner and outer. Any suggestions for a solution (stronger springs, oil??) would be welcomed. Patrick" Patrick, Regarding the throttle cables. Remove andthrow awaythe inner cable and replace it with a solid Bowden cable/wire from ACS part number 05-15500. It comes with a metal casing that youwill not need sodiscard it. You will need to form the end of the cable over an AN111 Cable BushingandRedux in place. This will be attached to the standard Europa throttle lever. The open end attaches to the Rotax engine as per the manual. As an engineer I could never understandwhy Europa usedacable for the throttle linkage. Cables are designed for tension not compression. It is quite easy to kink a cable when using it in compression. The solid wire Bowden cable is designed for compressive loads. Also using the Bowden cables will over come and 'stiction' and there is virtually no play in the throttle linkage. Good luck Erich Trombley N28ET Classic Mono 914 Patrick wrote "Having just fitted two new (massively expensive) throttle cables to cure the apparent problem of 'stiction', I find that nothing has changed, Despite being meticulously careful in the fitting (no kinks etc) and following the build manual instructions, I cannot find a way to get the throttle cables to operate properly i.e. the throttle will not open when the lever is moved forward as the throttle lever spring does not overcome the friction between inner and outer. Any suggestions for a solution (stronger springs, oil??) would be welcomed. Patrick" ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:53 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Has anyone mounted the foot brake cylinders as finger brakes? Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" Bruce You are right the Europa brake cylinder is the Jamar US2002X I will send you direct a photo of my installation bracket. Have a look and I can send you more details if needed. On the levers I would buy the Europa parts. They carry quite a load so strength and hardness are important as well as size. Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:05 AM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Bruce, The mod 65 is really complicated and adds unnecessary weight. I mounted the dual cylinder directly underneath the tunnel top like this: Turn the assembly back to front ( output ports point to front), Turn the assembly upside down ( the bracket is on top). Now put the bracket on top of the tunnel, drill 4 holes for the screws, and put the cylinder underneath the tunnel top, and screw tightly together. The handles then project above the tunnel, but in my case theyare not obstructing anything, except maybe the choke knob. In that position they are also easier to operate. The 4 screws I changed for shorter ones from the hardware store. I would also recommend that that portion of the tunnel top is a removable plate. You can thus attach all the brake lines first before bolting it into place. I assume you are also installing the brake valve in the recommended postion between the seats. I didn't think I needed it, but now I wouldn't be without it. Advantages: Dead simple installation, Easy future access and maintenance, Takes up virtually no space in the tunnel (unlike mod 65) Looks good if you can make up some sharp looking handles. No work at all with glass and epoxy. Think about it. Cheers, Karl >From: "Bruce" >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder >Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:30:55 -0700 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bruce" > >Greetings, > >I have a Jamar US2002X dual brake cylinder that I believe is quite similar >if not identical to the hand brake Europa currently utilizes for Tri-Gears. > > >I need to fabricate a mounting shelf for that brake cylinder and since I >have a cut-down tunnel, I can't utilize the Europa Mod 65 which includes a >molded mounting base for the brake cylinder. I looked at the >un-dimensioned >photos in the Mod 65 instructions and am guessing that the mounting base >for >the brake cylinder is located approximately 4.5 to 5 inches (11 to 13 CM) >below the top of the tunnel. > >Can anyone verify this dimension for me? > >Does anyone wish that this distance was higher or lower? > >I did a quick search of the list archives and found entries that suggest >the >handles should be fabricated to be 7.5 inches in length measured from the >pivot hole to the center of the knob. Thickness of aluminum ranged from >1/8 to 3/16 inch. Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on what has >worked well for them? > >Thanks, >Bruce >XS142 Conventional Gear >Tracy, CA > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:53 PM PST US From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Air baffle --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Hello Paul "Will the sensor be affected by leaded fuel ?" I contacted several Mfgs of O2 Mixture displays and the answer is it will work for a while with leaded fuel. Upon power up of the Split Second, it does the hebegeebees, and you can see the sweep from lean to rich / lean to rich. It will be full deflection. Then once lead contamination begins, it will slow down but still go full deflection. Unlike on a auto where the response needs to be licketey split to control mixture, in this application even if it took a few seconds to display correct that is complete acceptable. When the sensor loses its ability to deflect full scale upon power up it is time to change. It is supposedly very apparent and easy to see things going south. Split Second spent plenty of time precise mapping the O2 sensor they sell, and they tout it as more than just a switch. Aircraft Spruce sells a mixture display that uses a O2 sensor, I forget if they recommend 1 or 200 hour replacement of O2 sensor. I have not yet tried so all the above is only what was told me. My dart throw is even with 100% use of 100LL ~ 75 plus hours??? It is an accumulative thing, use a tank of 100LL here and there and should get years and years. Probably not very much an issue, but Silicone kills O2 sensors. O2 sensors do draw in outside air, if there is any fumes around it can hurt. Also because use of Silicone based heat sink compound on the plug threads was a bit of concern, will probably put in a plug and run motor for a few minutes upon re application of silicone heat sink compound. Supposedly the exact results of lead contamination are experienced with silicone contamination, very noticeable. Some coolants have silicone as a corrosion preventative in them, I forget if rotax wants silicone free?? Anyway if coolant ever gets into combustion chamber, besides cleaning out some carbon, if it has silicone in it it will probably fail the O2 sensor if used for mixture control. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:14 PM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Will, Yes, I did originally, but with limited success, mainly because I used the original levers with short extensions. Whatever cylinders you use, you need long and strong handles. The original gokart cylinders were certainly less troublesome otherwise. Myself and other builders had to fiddle around quite a bit with the Jamar dual cylinder before it worked properly. Karl >From: "William Daniell" >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder >Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:31:57 -0500 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" > >Has anyone mounted the foot brake cylinders as finger brakes? > >Will > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" > >Bruce > >You are right the Europa brake cylinder is the Jamar US2002X > >I will send you direct a photo of my installation bracket. Have a look and >I can send you more details if needed. > >On the levers I would buy the Europa parts. They carry quite a load so >strength and hardness are important as well as size. > > >Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear >Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) >e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk > or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:51 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Bruce I mounted my dual cylinder finger brakes up-side down too. As Karl said, it is easy that way. The handles will want to be as long as you can stand. That way you have a much softer pull with the finger of your right hand. I am very happy with mine. There are pictures some where in the pile of pictures at the link below. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:30 AM Subject: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bruce" Greetings, I have a Jamar US2002X dual brake cylinder that I believe is quite similar if not identical to the hand brake Europa currently utilizes for Tri-Gears. I need to fabricate a mounting shelf for that brake cylinder and since I have a cut-down tunnel, I can't utilize the Europa Mod 65 which includes a molded mounting base for the brake cylinder. I looked at the un-dimensioned photos in the Mod 65 instructions and am guessing that the mounting base for the brake cylinder is located approximately 4.5 to 5 inches (11 to 13 CM) below the top of the tunnel. Can anyone verify this dimension for me? Does anyone wish that this distance was higher or lower? I did a quick search of the list archives and found entries that suggest the handles should be fabricated to be 7.5 inches in length measured from the pivot hole to the center of the knob. Thickness of aluminum ranged from 1/8 to 3/16 inch. Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on what has worked well for them? Thanks, Bruce XS142 Conventional Gear Tracy, CA ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:15 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Air baffle --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" Yes. It will wipe out a normal automotive O2 sensor in about a tank-full. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Air baffle > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > > Hi Ron, > > I had a question about: > >>I am also installing a slick Split Second mixture display that is driven >>by a O2 sensor. I will weld a bung on the muffler just after the turbo >>flange to hold the sensor. This should give a good indication along with >>other how overall things are doing. > > Will the sensor be affected by leaded fuel ? > > Paul > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:21 PM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Ah so the secret is longer levers? I am thinking is that you mount everything within the tunnel with two slits for the levers and no other openings on the top of the tunnel - all maintenance done from the belly. Is this right? Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KARL HEINDL Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Will, Yes, I did originally, but with limited success, mainly because I used the original levers with short extensions. Whatever cylinders you use, you need long and strong handles. The original gokart cylinders were certainly less troublesome otherwise. Myself and other builders had to fiddle around quite a bit with the Jamar dual cylinder before it worked properly. Karl >From: "William Daniell" >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder >Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:31:57 -0500 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" > >Has anyone mounted the foot brake cylinders as finger brakes? > >Will > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" > >Bruce > >You are right the Europa brake cylinder is the Jamar US2002X > >I will send you direct a photo of my installation bracket. Have a look and >I can send you more details if needed. > >On the levers I would buy the Europa parts. They carry quite a load so >strength and hardness are important as well as size. > > >Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear >Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) >e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk > or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:43:42 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <> You might be right to quote this in context with KW. But if only you knew some of the finer details of the Rover debate. I do! Nuff said. Duncan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Pattinson" > > > Why are you disgusted that Keith Wilson and the PFA have put their side of > the story. > > There is a premise in this country, that a person is innocent until proven > guilty. Despite all the bad feeling and the fact that people have lost a > lot > of money there is no proof that it is Keiths fault. Is there any evidence > that he funded a lavish lifestyle at the companys/ customers expense? The > worst you can accuse him is of bad management and even that would be > difficult to prove. Its a sad fact of life but aircraft manufacturers seem > to get into financial trouble all the time. The list of companies that > have > gone out of business is endless. > > Companies go to the wall every day and people lose large sums as a result > of > it. Quite often the directors involved lose large sums too and sometimes > their homes. I know this because I nearly lost my home and 300,000 in > exactly the same way. At the end of the day I still lost a large sum of > money and I am still repaying the debt, 5 years after the event. Keith > Wilson has personally lost similar sums of money. The idea that he has > walked away scott free is total rubbish. > > When a company gets into financial trouble there is a fine dividing line > between going on when the company is losing money and pulling the plug > before it is too late. The demise of the Rover group is a prime example. > If > managers/ directors pulled the plug at the first sign of financial > difficulty there wouldnt be many companies left in business. > > Whatever Keith is alleged to have done, he is entitled to defend himself > and > to earn a living for himself and his family. > > I understand that people have had their dreams shattered and lost > considerable amounts of money but all these things can be rebuilt with > time. > > What has happened does not give anyone the right to conduct a personal > vendetta against Keith or to insist that the PFA dosen't use his work. The > fact that he is offered to make the recompense should be applauded and it > is > time this episode in the Europa's history was brought to a close and Keith > was allowed to get on with his life. > > Carl Pattinson > G-LABS > > PS: Just in case people want to accuse me of being biased I will tell you > of > my connection with Keith. Before he took the reins at EML I did business > with him in his capacity of Aviation Photographer and I never had reason > to > question his personal integrity. I have had no dealings with him since the > closure of EML nor is there any prospect of doing so as my company has > closed. I have spoken to him once since that time to hear his side of the > story, which in my opinion is only fair. I have also spoken to Graham > Newby > of the PFA. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: >> >> I was pretty disgusted with the bit that Brian Hope had written on the >> end >> of KWs atricle that went on about what a decent bloke KW was and how he >> was honest and reliable! I think that Brian has oversteped the lines of >> his remit by writing that and should print some articles by the poor >> unfortunates that parted with their hard earned and got nothing. >> >> We need to establish a way of making collective representation to the PFA >> and Brian Hope (without anoying everyone else outside the UK who are not >> in the PFA) - Any suggestions? >> >> >> ----------------------------------------- >> Email sent from www.ntlworld.com >> Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software >> Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:09 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" >I am thinking is that you mount everything within the tunnel with two slits for the levers and no other openings on the top of the tunnel - all maintenance done from the belly. >Is this right? Yes! We said it was easy !!!!!!! Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:18 PM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Will, No, I beg to dffer from Cliff. I do all interior tunnel maintenance from the top ( why does everybody like to crawl underneath the fuselage ?). The brake cylinder assembly is mounted on a removable plate, and I have a removable lid over the rest of the tunnel, so I can use it also for storage, and in my case aerial photography through a window in the bottom of the fuselage. Karl >From: "William Daniell" >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder >Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:48:35 -0500 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" > >Ah so the secret is longer levers? > >I am thinking is that you mount everything within the tunnel with two slits >for the levers and no other openings on the top of the tunnel - all >maintenance done from the belly. > >Is this right? > >Will > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KARL HEINDL >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" > > >Will, > >Yes, I did originally, but with limited success, mainly because I used the >original levers with short extensions. Whatever cylinders you use, you need >long and strong handles. The original gokart cylinders were certainly less >troublesome otherwise. Myself and other builders had to fiddle around quite >a bit with the Jamar dual cylinder before it worked properly. > >Karl > > > >From: "William Daniell" > >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder > >Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:31:57 -0500 > > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" > > > > >Has anyone mounted the foot brake cylinders as finger brakes? > > > >Will > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI > >To: europa-list@matronics.com > >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder > > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" > > > >Bruce > > > >You are right the Europa brake cylinder is the Jamar US2002X > > > >I will send you direct a photo of my installation bracket. Have a look >and > >I can send you more details if needed. > > > >On the levers I would buy the Europa parts. They carry quite a load so > >strength and hardness are important as well as size. > > > > > >Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear > >Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) > >e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk > > or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:40 PM PST US From: lmorgan822@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) --> Europa-List message posted by: lmorgan822@aol.com Ditto!!!! I can't speak for the others involved, only myself. What I know, as far as I'm concerned, is that KW is a cheat, a thief and a liar. I hope KW tries to sue me for those comments, as I would love to get him in an American court. I have written proof of what I said. When I finally had enough, I said I wanted a refund, and for a 2 to 3 week period of time "the funds were coming". I also have a bogus copy of a phony wire transfer. KW put the same hard sell on me at S n F in 04 and promised me that a container was "on the docks" ready to ship. I had even hired a guy to fly across the country and drive back the phase II and III kits. I even paid for two airline tickets based on what KW told me about ship dates. I called the factory and was informed that not only was there no container, but there hadn't been one since the previous Jan or Feb. He wasn't content with that, but tried to get additional funds out of me in the month of June for an FWF package that didn't exist. I'm not saying anything that I would not say to KW's face, fortunately for both of us it is probably a good idea that it probably won't happen. -----Original Message----- From: Duncan McFadyean Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <> You might be right to quote this in context with KW. But if only you knew some of the finer details of the Rover debate. I do! Nuff said. Duncan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Pattinson" > > > Why are you disgusted that Keith Wilson and the PFA have put their side of > the story. > > There is a premise in this country, that a person is innocent until proven > guilty. Despite all the bad feeling and the fact that people have lost a > lot > of money there is no proof that it is Keiths fault. Is there any evidence > that he funded a lavish lifestyle at the companys/ customers expense? The > worst you can accuse him is of bad management and even that would be > difficult to prove. Its a sad fact of life but aircraft manufacturers seem > to get into financial trouble all the time. The list of companies that > have > gone out of business is endless. > > Companies go to the wall every day and people lose large sums as a result > of > it. Quite often the directors involved lose large sums too and sometimes > their homes. I know this because I nearly lost my home and 300,000 in > exactly the same way. At the end of the day I still lost a large sum of > money and I am still repaying the debt, 5 years after the event. Keith > Wilson has personally lost similar sums of money. The idea that he has > walked away scott free is total rubbish. > > When a company gets into financial trouble there is a fine dividing line > between going on when the company is losing money and pulling the plug > before it is too late. The demise of the Rover group is a prime example. > If > managers/ directors pulled the plug at the first sign of financial > difficulty there wouldnt be many companies left in business. > > Whatever Keith is alleged to have done, he is entitled to defend himself > and > to earn a living for himself and his family. > > I understand that people have had their dreams shattered and lost > considerable amounts of money but all these things can be rebuilt with > time. > > What has happened does not give anyone the right to conduct a personal > vendetta against Keith or to insist that the PFA dosen't use his work. The > fact that he is offered to make the recompense should be applauded and it > is > time this episode in the Europa's history was brought to a close and Keith > was allowed to get on with his life. > > Carl Pattinson > G-LABS > > PS: Just in case people want to accuse me of being biased I will tell you > of > my connection with Keith. Before he took the reins at EML I did business > with him in his capacity of Aviation Photographer and I never had reason > to > question his personal integrity. I have had no dealings with him since the > closure of EML nor is there any prospect of doing so as my company has > closed. I have spoken to him once since that time to hear his side of the > story, which in my opinion is only fair. I have also spoken to Graham > Newby > of the PFA. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: >> >> I was pretty disgusted with the bit that Brian Hope had written on the >> end >> of KWs atricle that went on about what a decent bloke KW was and how he >> was honest and reliable! I think that Brian has oversteped the lines of >> his remit by writing that and should print some articles by the poor >> unfortunates that parted with their hard earned and got nothing. >> >> We need to establish a way of making collective representation to the PFA >> and Brian Hope (without anoying everyone else outside the UK who are not >> in the PFA) - Any suggestions? >> >> >> ----------------------------------------- >> Email sent from www.ntlworld.com >> Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software >> Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:51 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Karl You have built a very interesting "Tunnel" I remember looking at it and thinking "why did I not think of doing that " I wish I had. The dream I have now is to make doors on the belly of my trygear that open up like a bomb-bay. It would be fun to see the "security people" look at my plane then. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE ----- Original Message ----- From: KARL HEINDL To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:13 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Will, No, I beg to dffer from Cliff. I do all interior tunnel maintenance from the top ( why does everybody like to crawl underneath the fuselage ?). The brake cylinder assembly is mounted on a removable plate, and I have a removable lid over the rest of the tunnel, so I can use it also for storage, and in my case aerial photography through a window in the bottom of the fuselage. Karl >From: "William Daniell" >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder >Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:48:35 -0500 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" > >Ah so the secret is longer levers? > >I am thinking is that you mount everything within the tunnel with two slits >for the levers and no other openings on the top of the tunnel - all >maintenance done from the belly. > >Is this right? > >Will > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KARL HEINDL >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" > > >Will, > >Yes, I did originally, but with limited success, mainly because I used the >original levers with short extensions. Whatever cylinders you use, you need >long and strong handles. The original gokart cylinders were certainly less >troublesome otherwise. Myself and other builders had to fiddle around quite >a bit with the Jamar dual cylinder before it worked properly. > >Karl > > > >From: "William Daniell" > >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder > >Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:31:57 -0500 > > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" > > > > >Has anyone mounted the foot brake cylinders as finger brakes? > > > >Will > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI > >To: europa-list@matronics.com > >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder > > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" > > > >Bruce > > > >You are right the Europa brake cylinder is the Jamar US2002X > > > >I will send you direct a photo of my installation bracket. Have a look >and > >I can send you more details if needed. > > > >On the levers I would buy the Europa parts. They carry quite a load so > >strength and hardness are important as well as size. > > > > > >Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear > >Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) > >e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk > > or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:42 PM PST US From: "Steve Crimm" Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm" Karl, Pictures would be great to look at... Steve Crimm -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KARL HEINDL Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Will, No, I beg to dffer from Cliff. I do all interior tunnel maintenance from the top ( why does everybody like to crawl underneath the fuselage ?). The brake cylinder assembly is mounted on a removable plate, and I have a removable lid over the rest of the tunnel, so I can use it also for storage, and in my case aerial photography through a window in the bottom of the fuselage. Karl >From: "William Daniell" >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder >Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:48:35 -0500 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" >--> > >Ah so the secret is longer levers? > >I am thinking is that you mount everything within the tunnel with two >slits for the levers and no other openings on the top of the tunnel - >all maintenance done from the belly. > >Is this right? > >Will > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KARL >HEINDL >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" > > >Will, > >Yes, I did originally, but with limited success, mainly because I used >the original levers with short extensions. Whatever cylinders you use, >you need long and strong handles. The original gokart cylinders were >certainly less troublesome otherwise. Myself and other builders had to >fiddle around quite a bit with the Jamar dual cylinder before it worked properly. > >Karl > > > >From: "William Daniell" > >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder > >Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:31:57 -0500 > > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" > > > > >Has anyone mounted the foot brake cylinders as finger brakes? > > > >Will > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI > >To: europa-list@matronics.com > >Subject: RE: Europa-List: mounting base for finger brake cylinder > > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" > > > >Bruce > > > >You are right the Europa brake cylinder is the Jamar US2002X > > > >I will send you direct a photo of my installation bracket. Have a > >look >and > >I can send you more details if needed. > > > >On the levers I would buy the Europa parts. They carry quite a load > >so strength and hardness are important as well as size. > > > > > >Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear > >Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) > >e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk > > or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:05 PM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Throttle Cables. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Erich, Boy, do I wish I'd read that two months ago. I appreciate the gesture, but I'll be wriggling into the occupied monowheel tunnel to free the throttle box and rebuilding with bowden wire............ Guess I should have had the sense to see that on my own! Cheers, Ferg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: Throttle Cables. | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Erich Trombley" | | Patrick, | Regarding the throttle cables. Remove and throw away the inner cable and replace it with a solid Bowden cable/wire from ACS part number 05-15500. It comes with a metal casing that you will not need so discard it. You will need to form the end of the cable over an AN111 Cable Bushing and Redux in place. This will be attached to the standard Europa throttle lever. The open end attaches to the Rotax engine as per the manual. | As an engineer I could never understand why Europa used a cable for the throttle linkage. Cables are designed for tension not compression. It is quite easy to kink a cable when using it in compression. The solid wire Bowden cable is designed for compressive loads. Also using the Bowden cables will over come and 'stiction' and there is virtually no play in the throttle linkage. Good luck | | Erich Trombley | N28ET Classic Mono 914 | Patrick wrote | | "Having just fitted two new (massively expensive) throttle cables to cure the | apparent problem of 'stiction', I find that nothing has changed, | | Despite being meticulously careful in the fitting (no kinks etc) and | following the build manual instructions, I cannot find a way to get the | throttle | | cables to operate properly i.e. the throttle will not open when the lever is | moved forward as the throttle lever spring does not overcome the friction | between inner and outer. | | Any suggestions for a solution (stronger springs, oil??) would be welcomed. | | Patrick" | | | Patrick, | | | Regarding the throttle cables. Remove andthrow awaythe inner cable and replace it with a solid Bowden cable/wire from ACS part number 05-15500. It comes with a metal casing that youwill not need sodiscard it. You will need to form the end of the cable over an AN111 Cable BushingandRedux in place. This will be attached to the standard Europa throttle lever. The open end attaches to the Rotax engine as per the manual. | | | As an engineer I could never understandwhy Europa usedacable for the throttle linkage. Cables are designed for tension not compression. It is quite easy to kink a cable when using it in compression. The solid wire Bowden cable is designed for compressive loads. Also using the Bowden cables will over come and 'stiction' and there is virtually no play in the throttle linkage. Good luck | | | Erich Trombley | | | N28ET Classic Mono 914 | | | Patrick wrote | | | "Having just fitted two new (massively expensive) throttle cables to cure the | apparent problem of 'stiction', I find that nothing has changed, | | Despite being meticulously careful in the fitting (no kinks etc) and | following the build manual instructions, I cannot find a way to get the | throttle | | cables to operate properly i.e. the throttle will not open when the lever is | moved forward as the throttle lever spring does not overcome the friction | between inner and outer. | | Any suggestions for a solution (stronger springs, oil??) would be welcomed. | | Patrick" | | | | | |