---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 10/27/05: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:32 AM - Re: without predudice (paul atkinson) 2. 01:13 AM - Re: Re: without predudice (Nigel Graham) 3. 01:19 AM - Re: Re: without predudice () 4. 10:00 AM - Throttle Cable (Erich Trombley) 5. 10:14 AM - Re: Throttle Cable (BEBERRY@aol.com) 6. 11:58 AM - 10% Alcohol to run a Rotax? () 7. 01:24 PM - Re: 10% Alcohol to run a Rotax? (John & Amy Eckel) 8. 03:01 PM - Re: Re: without predudice (Rowland Carson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:32:08 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: without predudice From: "paul atkinson" --> Europa-List message posted by: "paul atkinson" As Brain Hope has used the Magazine to express his opinions, then he should be prepared to print any other views in the letters column to provide some balance. Why doesn't anyone with an opinion (including non members of the PFA )write to Popular Flying expressing their views about KW and the PFA's actions, and see how many get printed. Non members letters probably won't be printed but it might prove to Brian that we are not a "small number of dissenters". If he was made aware of the what has been written on this list about KW and his antics then he just might have to eat his words. He can be contacted at: The Editor, Popular Flying Magazine, 60 Queensborough Rd, Sheerness, Kent, ME12 3BZ, email: magazine@pfanet.co.uk Does anyone have the wherewithall to copy the letter and Brian's comment to the Photoshare archive for the benefit of those who have not been able to read it? Regards Paul Atkinson On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:56:29 +0100, Europa-List Digest Server wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > peter.rees05@ntlworld.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) > --> Europa-List message posted by: > I was pretty disgusted with the bit that Brian Hope had written on the > end of KWs atricle that went on about what a decent bloke KW was and how > he was honest and reliable! I think that Brian has oversteped the lines > of his remit by writing that and should print some articles by the poor > unfortunates that parted with their hard earned and got nothing. > We need to establish a way of making collective representation to the > PFA and Brian Hope (without anoying everyone else outside the UK who are > not in the PFA) - Any suggestions? > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:36 AM PST US From: "Nigel Graham" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: without predudice --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" ----- Original Message ----- From: "paul atkinson" Subject: Europa-List: Re: without predudice ......................................... Does anyone have the wherewithall to copy the letter and Brian's comment to the Photoshare archive for the benefit of those who have not been able to read it? Regards Paul Atkinson Please send your letters to: The Editor, Popular Flying Magazine, 60 Queenborough Road, Sheerness, Kent ME12 3BZ Email: magazine@pfanet.co.uk Europa Management (International) Ltd. From Keith Wilson (Without prejudice) I am writing in connection with the demise of Europa Management (International) Limited back in July 2004. As is often the case in these situations, it is not one issue that brings things to a head but a series of events controlled by a number of people. That said, I was Managing Director of the company at that time and it is the M.D. who is ultimately responsible for all of them. Right up until the last minute I had been working on a refinancing package, as some will know. However, in the event actions by third parties precipitated the collapse of EM(I)L. Some people lost money as a consequence of the demise, for which I am deeply sorry. I would also like to state that contrary to some people's belief, I have not gained in any way as a result of the collapse of the company. In fact, my personal financial losses, along with those of my family, have been significantly greater than anybody else has suffered - although I am sure that this fact will not help those who have suffered any kind of loss themselves. Since the demise, my ability to work and earn a living in order to provide for my family has been severely hampered. Many doors have been firmly closed to me. However, some readers will be aware of my previous aviation photographic activities and I have been trying to resurrect that occupation in order to support my family - something I am sure you will all agree is completely reasonable. In addition, I would like to find a way, however small, to make some kind of recompense to those who have suffered financial loss. Sadly, I do not see a way where everybody can be repaid completely but thanks to the kind offer of help and cooperation from Peter Kember (President of the Europa Club) I would like to go someway to demonstrating my willingness to try. I am proposing to create a trust fund, to be administered by the Europa Club, the details of which have to be agreed. A proportion of my future freelance aviation photography-related earnings will be paid over to this fund on a regular basis and distributed in accordance with the wishes of the trustees. I am delighted to see that Europa has continued in new hands and I wish that team every success in the future. I would be willing to provide photographic support to that company in order to demonstrate my commitment to their future success. The use of my Europa photographic library, or any future commissions for Europa could be undertaken on an expenses-only basis. I would like to conclude by reiterating my heartfelt apologies for the inconvenience and suffering that has been caused by the sad demise of Europa Management (International) Limited. I am deeply sorry. Keith Wilson Addendum by Brian Hope - editor For more than fifteen years, Keith Wilson has submitted pictures of the highest quality to Popular Flying, and without doubt the magazine would be the worse without his valuable contribution. What many people will not know is that he has always carried out his PFA commissions on an expenses only basis, saving the PFA a great deal of money over what we would normally have to pay a professional air to air photographer. As editor of Popular Flying 1 can say without hesitation that Keith it is a genuine pleasure to deal with, if he promises a picture, it will be delivered the next day, and if he says he will be at a certain location for a shoot, he will be there. Popular Flying is a low budget, part time operation, and just as with any other publication, it has to work to tight deadlines. Such a high level of service and commitment to the task is an absolute godsend. As you will see from the cover feature this month, 1 had the opportunity to fly for Keith's camera very recently. Over a two hour session we shot ten different aeroplanes in thirteen different sequences; it was a lesson in the consummate professionalism with which Keith approaches his work, the safety of all concerned always being paramount. It is unfortunate that there has been some disquiet amongst a small number of members over the continued use of Keith's work in Popular Flying following the unfortunate demise of Europa Management (International) Limited. 1 hope that matter can now be laid to rest, and Keith will be permitted to work freely in his chosen field without undue hindrance. For my part, I hope the excellent relationship between Keith Wilson and Popular Flying will continue for many years to come. Brian Hope. Editor. 50 POPULAR FLYING November 2005 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:58 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: without predudice --> Europa-List message posted by: I've already written to Brian and had a response which I posted yesterday - roughly summarised it was 'We've been through this several times - sorry people lost money but Keiths a good bloke and wer're going to carry on using his pictures' I'd suggest that maybe posting letters to a singe E-mail address and then forwarding them on bulk to Graham Newby and Brian Hope is the best way forward - that way, we would know how many had been sent so there would be no way that Graham Newby could use the same arguement as he did last time that they had only had complaints from 2 or 3 people when we all know that quite a large number of people had written to him. Is this something that the Europa club could organise? If not, I'm happy to set up a Hotmail address we could use. Re the trust fund (Trust / Keith Wilson - very funny!) - at say 5% interest, the amount he would have to put in there to generate any serious money would be astronomic - 1/2 a million would still only give 25k a year - if taking pictures pays that well, I'm off to Dixons! > > From: "paul atkinson" > Date: 2005/10/27 Thu AM 08:30:40 BST > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Re: without predudice > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "paul atkinson" > > As Brain Hope has used the Magazine to express his opinions, then he > should be prepared to print any other views in the letters column to > provide some balance. > > Why doesn't anyone with an opinion (including non members of the PFA > )write to Popular Flying expressing their views about KW and the PFA's > actions, and see how many get printed. Non members letters probably won't > be printed but it might prove to Brian that we are not a "small number of > dissenters". If he was made aware of the what has been written on this > list about KW and his antics then he just might have to eat his words. > > He can be contacted at: The Editor, Popular Flying Magazine, 60 > Queensborough Rd, Sheerness, Kent, ME12 3BZ, email: magazine@pfanet.co.uk > > Does anyone have the wherewithall to copy the letter and Brian's comment > to the Photoshare archive for the benefit of those who have not been able > to read it? > > Regards > Paul Atkinson > > On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 07:56:29 +0100, Europa-List Digest Server > wrote: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > > peter.rees05@ntlworld.com > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: (Without Prejudice) > > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > I was pretty disgusted with the bit that Brian Hope had written on the > > end of KWs atricle that went on about what a decent bloke KW was and how > > he was honest and reliable! I think that Brian has oversteped the lines > > of his remit by writing that and should print some articles by the poor > > unfortunates that parted with their hard earned and got nothing. > > We need to establish a way of making collective representation to the > > PFA and Brian Hope (without anoying everyone else outside the UK who are > > not in the PFA) - Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:00:44 AM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: Throttle Cable --> Europa-List message posted by: "Erich Trombley" Ferg wrote: " I read with interest Erich's suggestion to replace the kit cable internal lines with AS parts, which (I forget who) said were not a good fit. We sometimes speak in generalities, and while I agree that this fills most needs, actual measurements mean a lot more, to me at least. Remember, I'm in an innumerate society, where large become monstrous, extralarge or even professionally big, but the numbers are gone. So I brang out my micorsizer and the diameter of the unsatisfactory innards is 0.060 inches or 1.52mm. I can get "piano wire" at that diameter. Do you think that would work? I understand that the technical standards are missing, but it seems to have the hard characteristics that the throttle 'push' needs to avoid kinking." Ferg, you caught me!! That' s what I get for making assumptions. Just prior to the time I was installing the throttle and choke cables and other FWF components, I had a very bad run in with Europa regarding the delivery of my engine (or rather lack of delivery) and hence vowed never to give Europa another nickel (note: this was several years ago (under the old regime). As such, I fabricated my own FWF package including the throttle lever (per the manual). Since I did not have the Europa supplied cables I purchased bicycle brake cables and discarded the inner cable, utilizing only the sheath. I then installed the ACS bowden cable which has a wire diameter of .078" which fit just fine. Sorry for the confusion and the incorrect assumption that the Europa supplied cables were the same diameter as the bicycle brake cables I used. Regarding you question on the suitability of .060 piano wire? Well, it certainly would be an improvement over .060 stranded cable. Will it provide a kink free solution? I can't say for sure, although I suspect it will. If you look at the throttle quadrant you will see that the risk of kinking is greatest when advancing the throttle from idle to full power. This is because with the Europa throttle quadrant design the throttle cable is unsupported between the throttle lever and the cable sheath (a distance of several inches). As the throttle lever advances the length of unsupported cable is reduced, to finally, when the throttle is at maximum power the cable is almost fully supported in the sheath. If there a significant amount of friction between the cable and sheath then it will be quite easy to kink the cable if the throttle is advance quickly, such as in a go-around situation, since you are relying on the throttle return springs to effectively pull the cable through the sheath. Well, as we all know these springs were not intended for this purpose, rather they are intended solely to advanced the throttle to full power in the event of a cable break. Using a solid wire greatly improves the designs, allowing the throttle lever to actually push the solid wire forward. You can't effectively push a stranded wire cable without risk of kinking, especially with the length of unsupported cable within the throttle quadrant. Well that's my two cents worth. Erich Trombley N28ET Classic Mono 914 Ferg wrote: "I read with interest Erich's suggestion to replace the kit cable internal lines with AS parts, which (I forget who) said were not a good fit. We sometimes speak in generalities, and while I agree that this fills most needs, actual measurements mean a lot more, to me at least. Remember, I'm in an innumerate society, where large become monstrous, extralarge or even professionally big, but the numbers are gone. So I brang out my micorsizer and the diameter of the unsatisfactory innards is 0.060 inches or 1.52mm. I can get "piano wire" at that diameter. Do you think that would work? I understand that the technical standards are missing, but it seems to have the hard characteristics that the throttle 'push' needs to avoid kinking." Ferg, youcaught me!! That' s what I get for making assumptions. Just prior to the time I wasinstalling the throttle and choke cables and other FWF components, I had a very bad run in with Europa regarding the delivery of my engine (or rather lack of delivery) and hence vowed never to give Europa another nickel (note: this was several years ago (under the old regime). As such, I fabricated my own FWF package including the throttle lever (per the manual). Since I did not have the Europa supplied cables I purchased bicycle brake cables and discarded the innercable, utilizing only the sheath. I then installed the ACS bowden cable which has a wire diameter of .078" which fit just fine. Sorry for the confusion and the incorrect assumption that theEuropa supplied cables were the same diameter as the bicycle brake cables I used. Regarding you question on the suitability of .060 piano wire? Well, it certainly would be an improvement over.060 stranded cable. Will it provide a kink free solution? I can't say for sure, although Isuspect it will. If you look at the throttle quadrant you will see that the risk of kinking is greatest when advancing the throttle from idle to full power. This is because with the Europa throttle quadrant designthe throttle cableis unsupported between the throttle lever and the cable sheath (a distance of several inches). As the throttlelever advances the length ofunsupported cableis reduced, to finally, when the throttle is at maximum powerthecable is almost fullysupported in the sheath.If therea significant amount of friction between the cable and sheath then it will be quite easy to kink the cable if the throttleis advance quickly, such as in a go-around situation, since you are relying on thethrottle return springs toeffectively pull the cable through the sheath. Well, as we all know these springswere not intended for this purpose, rather they are intended solelytoadvanced the throttle to fullpower in the event of a cable break. Using asolid wire greatly improves thedesigns, allowing the throttle lever to actually push the solid wire forward. You can't effectively push a stranded wire cable without risk of kinking, especially with the lengthof unsupported cable within the throttlequadrant. Well that's my two cents worth. Erich Trombley N28ET Classic Mono 914 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:29 AM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Throttle Cable --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com Interesting to read all the discussions on throttle cables etc (which I think I started after having some problems). I am fairly happy now with my original stranded inner cable but may change to a solid Bowden wire as some suggest, one day. I have doubled up on the return springs at the carb end and this seems to have done the trick. Easy to do and at little cost. Patrick ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:58:06 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: 10% Alcohol to run a Rotax? From: --> Europa-List message posted by: Rotax recommends a max. of 5% alcohol content in fuel mix. In NY, Mogas is 10% as far as I can find. Anyone have long term experience running 10%? Anyone have any success in obtaining fuel at Depot before it gets mixed? Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:12 PM PST US From: "John & Amy Eckel" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 10% Alcohol to run a Rotax? --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" Ron, I am using Sunoco in my plane and it does not have alcohol. This may be different in NY though. It is easy to test for alcohol in gas. Put some water in a test tube or your airplane gas sampler and fill the rest of the way with gas. Use about a 1:10 ratio water to gas. Shake well and let it settle for a minute or so. If the water level has gone up there is alcohol. Petersen Aviation, the guys that have the Mogas STC's, sell a tester for $15 that is a test tube with calibration marks that will tell you the percent alcohol in the gas. With a little ingenuity you can design you own. John Eckel ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Europa-List: 10% Alcohol to run a Rotax? > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > Rotax recommends a max. of 5% alcohol content in fuel mix. > > In NY, Mogas is 10% as far as I can find. > > Anyone have long term experience running 10%? > > Anyone have any success in obtaining fuel at Depot before it gets mixed? > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:01:53 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: without predudice --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson At 2005-10-27 09:19 +0100 wrote: >Re the trust fund (Trust / Keith Wilson - very funny!) - at say 5% >interest, the amount he would have to put in there to generate any >serious money would be astronomic Peter - I don't see any suggestion that interest would be used - from Keith's letter, my understanding is that the capital would be redistributed to people who had lost money, with the "fund manager" simply acting as agent to see fair play. I do agree that many details would need to be sorted out before such a scheme could be made to work. I should emphasize that I am speaking as an individual rather than as a representative of the Europa Club. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson PFA #16532 | 750 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail