Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:42 AM - Re: Members (BEBERRY@aol.com)
2. 02:01 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05 (Graham Singleton)
3. 02:23 AM - Re: Nose Gear Springs (Graham Pocock)
4. 02:35 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05 (Tim Weert)
5. 03:31 AM - Re: Nose Gear Springs (G-IANI)
6. 04:06 AM - Classic radiator (Bill Henderson)
7. 04:40 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05 (R.C.Harrison)
8. 05:11 AM - Re: Argentina (William Daniell)
9. 05:19 AM - Re: Springs (Steve Hagar)
10. 09:29 AM - Re: europa flyer #46 (sep 05) (josok)
11. 11:02 AM - Builders in Argentina (nigel charles)
12. 01:04 PM - Nose gear springs (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
13. 02:27 PM - Re: Builders in Argentina (William Daniell)
14. 03:51 PM - Re: Nose gear springs (N55XS)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com
Rowland -as you mention that you are polishing the members list before hand
over, perhaps you could make an amendment to my details of G PUDS. I have
now fitted an Arplst VP prop to replace rthe Warp Drive,
Thanks
Patrick
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
Thanks to all those who have declared an interest in the Trigear bungee
replacement springs. At this moment 13 builders have said they are
interested.
Here is some background so you know where we have got to.
Two springs have been used to replace the nose wheel bungee and this has
been done on at least five aircraft (on the Dutch register).
Ian & all
Might I suggest some more research into spring availability.
First, springs are available using square section wire, which would be less agressive
on the gear leg attachment stub, and the LG01. I wonder if 5 years down
the line there will be grooves worn in the structure. I would also much prefer
to see some sort of protection to prevent this future problem.
Danley Spring Co make a huge range of springs, the Long EZ nose gear spring is
a Danley and its square wire. (Compression though, not tension)
Graham
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Nose Gear Springs |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Graham Pocock" <graham@pocock56.fsnet.co.uk>
I am interested in these springs too. Fit and forget sounds good,
re-tightening bungees and all that entails sounds like a finger nipping job.
I haven't got to that bit in the build yet though!
Graham Pocock
535 Tri-gear
Do not archive
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Weert" <tim.weert@hccnet.nl>
Hi Graham,
I protected the Spring/bar connection by plastic tubes. This isolates
electrical currents which might start between two different metals during a
corrosion process and protects the wite paint on the bars. The pics on the
web http://www.europaowners.org/album135
are from Jac van Heeswijk's bird. The one "Upper side Coil Spring " with the
wite bar is from my own bird.
As soon as possible (VFR weather between Holland and the UK) I'lI fly Ian's
and Ivor's ciol springs to the UK. I think it's wise to have some patience
and wait untill Ian and Ivor have received their PFA approval. Than the
conditions for the MOD are clear and there might be some small additional
requirements in the specs. list.
Regards, Tim.
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Nose Gear Springs |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
Thanks for the comments. You have a good point.
Andy Draper is aware of the possibility of denting the tube and thinks it
will be OK but will do some calculations to check.
My aim is to simplify things for the average builder, particularly with the
PFA. I have picked up the project "as is" and unfortunately lack the time
to do a lot of in depth research.
Yes there are probably better options so can anyone out there offer us some
further advice/research.
Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Graham
Singleton
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05
Ian & all
Might I suggest some more research into spring availability.
First, springs are available using square section wire, which would be less
aggressive on the gear leg attachment stub, and the LG01. I wonder if 5
years down the line there will be grooves worn in the structure. I would
also much prefer to see some sort of protection to prevent this future
problem.
Danley Spring Co make a huge range of springs, the Long EZ nose gear spring
is a Danley and its square wire. (Compression though, not tension)
Graham
Message 6
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Subject: | Classic radiator |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bill Henderson" <europabill@bellsouth.net>
Looking for a starbord radiator for the classic. If anyone has one they will not
be using, please email me directly with location and price.
Thanks,
Bill Henderson
A010 Classic Monowheel
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Graham,
That's a very good point you make ...it had crossed my mind to probably
get a nylon sleeve pushed on to the ends of the spring and/or a piece of
nylon suitably wrapped round the members onto which the springs will
act.( probably clipped with Junilee Clips)
Regards
Bob H Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 ( with upside down bump stop after bungee
failure!)
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Singleton
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton
<graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
Thanks to all those who have declared an interest in the Trigear bungee
replacement springs. At this moment 13 builders have said they are
interested.
Here is some background so you know where we have got to.
Two springs have been used to replace the nose wheel bungee and this has
been done on at least five aircraft (on the Dutch register).
Ian & all
Might I suggest some more research into spring availability.
First, springs are available using square section wire, which would be
less agressive on the gear leg attachment stub, and the LG01. I wonder
if 5 years down the line there will be grooves worn in the structure. I
would also much prefer to see some sort of protection to prevent this
future problem.
Danley Spring Co make a huge range of springs, the Long EZ nose gear
spring is a Danley and its square wire. (Compression though, not
tension)
Graham
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
Rowland,
Yes I would like to join the club but the thing is that snail mail does not
work for us - the tropical factor.
Internet is a much better communication method.
However maybe we could do something like invent a Latin America chapter...?
I would be happy to set it up.
In the meantime can you give me the emails of the Argentine builders? I am
setting up a business here and will be here for sometime and am looking to
entertain myself on weekends.
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland Carson
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Argentina
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 2005-11-01 08:37 -0500 William Daniell wrote:
>Any builders in Argentina??
Will - the only ones I know of are:
kit mark builder
ARG001 Oscar Ogas
ARG002 LV-X263 Oscar Martinelli
ARG003 LV-X275 Luis Fernndez (Europa Club member)
More info about them is available on the Europa
Club CD-ROM, issued to all new members. The Data
Protection Act prevents release of personal
details to non-members.
Club Committee member Nigel Charles has visited
with Luis on his stopovers there and found him
very congenial.
Your old pal David Corbett from Shobdon keeps
telling me to twist your arm to join the Club,
but with the very unreliable postal service in
Colombia it seems that may not be a
cost-effective move for you - unless and until we
establish an online-only membership category. The
membership database I am still polishing prior to
transfer to Gerry has provision for that; the
Committee have discussed it in the past, but no
decision has been reached.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson (retiring) Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for
info!
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (750 hours building) PFA #16532
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
The easiest way is to go to the guy on this list and ask him what he is
using and order springs to the same specifications.
Steve Hagar
hagargs@earthlink.net
> [Original Message]
> From: N55XS <topglock@cox.net>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 11/1/2005 6:24:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Springs
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS <topglock@cox.net>
>
> Steve,
>
> How would one go about determining the technical requirements for the
> Europa springs?
>
> Jeff - N55XS
> 99.9 hours
>
> Steve Hagar wrote:
>
> >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
> >
> >In my job as a manufacturing engineer in a plant I have occasion to use
different springs. The characteristics of the spring are wholly determined
the material, diameter of the wire and diameter of the coil. There arre
several if not many houses out there who do nothing but wind springs. Many
are standard and do not have to be specially made. In following this thread
about the springs I seem to get the impression that every one thinks there
is a special recipe to get these springs from a special unique supplier.
What you want is an extension spring with a certain diameter wire, certain
diameter coil and of a certain length. You can call Lee Spring, or Capitol
spring or many others to see if is one of their stock units or what it
would take for them to wind it special which they do all the time. You can
find them on the internet.
> >
> >Steve Hagar
> >A143
> >Mesa, AZ
> >
> >
> >Steve Hagar
> >hagargs@earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | RE: europa flyer #46 (sep 05) |
0.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty
--> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
It made a left turn, a few days ago in Gothenburg, won't be long anymore, have
a look:
Jos Okhuijsen
----------------
This Email contains Photos or Attachments located at the following link:
http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p=8178#8178
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
Message 11
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Subject: | Builders in Argentina |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
There are 3 completed trigear Europas in Argentina. I used to visit them
most months a few years ago. The only English speaker is Luis Fernandez.
He can be contacted at luisaeromarine@yahoo.com.ar.
Hope this is of some help.
Nigel Charles
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list- server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
> Daniell
> Sent: 01 November 2005 13:37
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Argentina
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell"
> --> <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
>
>
> Any builders in Argentina??
>
> Will
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> EuropaForum
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nose gear springs
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum
> --> <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
>
> This should work also if the long URL is broken for someone.
> http://www.europaowners.org/album135
>
> Steved
>
> > I placed some pics in http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?
> >
set_albumName=album135&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view
> > _album.php
> >
> > Regards, Tim.
>
>
>
>
>
Unlimited Tiscali Broadband from 14.99!
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
Message 12
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|
Subject: | Nose gear springs |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
Hi all,
As I have already installed the Dutch designed/Dutch manufactured springs, I have
reflected on some of the information/suggestions on the forum today:
- Risk of hooks making grooves on the tubes: Cannot be ruled out, of course, but
can only happen if the hooks rotate on the tubes. This requires that the springs
are stretched, which in turn means unusually hard nose wheel landings.
The flexibility of the tire and the nose gear arm takes the first part of landing
impact loads. The springs begin to strecth only when a load of approx. 150
kg (310 lbs) is acting on the nose wheel, which is much, much more than experienced
with normal trigear landings where the nose wheel touches gently during
roll-out.
I do not think that square section wire is the way to go in order to increase the
contact area/decrease the risk of wear on the tubes. It will be very difficult
to manufacture the spring so that a flat side lies squarely aginst both the
upper and the lower tube (or any of them, for that matter) in the actual installation.
A sharp edge will be much worse for the tubes than a round cross
section.
- Galvanic corrosion should not be of great concern here. Besides, except in countries
where IFR is permitted for Experimental class, dry runways will be the
norm. I would not be surprised if a plastic tube over the hooks for insulation
will yield quickly with the substantial pressure applied at a very small contact
area. Also note that the Dutch springs have hooks rounded to a diameter
corresponding very closely to the diameter of the upper and lower tubes (having
different diameter, too), so any plastic tube on the hooks will reduce the
diameter and therefore will easily be damaged just by installing them. Increasing
the hook diameter to allow for a suitable insulation could of course be
done, but this must be done at manufacturing as the Ducth wire is 8 mm.
Nevertheless, good points, both of them, and only time will tell for sure. Therefore,
these points warrant inspection along with all the other areas that must
be checked regularly.
Regards,
Svein
A225 - now in Norway
Message 13
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|
Subject: | Builders in Argentina |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
Thanks - Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel charles
Subject: Europa-List: Builders in Argentina
--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles"
<nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
There are 3 completed trigear Europas in Argentina. I used to visit them
most months a few years ago. The only English speaker is Luis Fernandez.
He can be contacted at luisaeromarine@yahoo.com.ar.
Hope this is of some help.
Nigel Charles
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list- server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
> Daniell
> Sent: 01 November 2005 13:37
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Argentina
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell"
> --> <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
>
>
> Any builders in Argentina??
>
> Will
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> EuropaForum
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nose gear springs
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum
> --> <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
>
> This should work also if the long URL is broken for someone.
> http://www.europaowners.org/album135
>
> Steved
>
> > I placed some pics in http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?
> >
set_albumName=album135&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view
> > _album.php
> >
> > Regards, Tim.
>
>
>
>
>
Unlimited Tiscali Broadband from 14.99!
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Re: Nose gear springs |
--> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS <topglock@cox.net>
Svein,
Would it be possible for you to post the actual specs of the spring
being manufacutred? If it is possible to closely match these specs, off
the shelf springs may be attainable more readily and at a reduced cost,
here in the US. Thanks in advance for any information you can render...
Jeff - N55XS
99.9 hours
Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
>
>Hi all,
>
>As I have already installed the Dutch designed/Dutch manufactured springs, I have
reflected on some of the information/suggestions on the forum today:
>
>- Risk of hooks making grooves on the tubes: Cannot be ruled out, of course,
but can only happen if the hooks rotate on the tubes. This requires that the
springs are stretched, which in turn means unusually hard nose wheel landings.
The flexibility of the tire and the nose gear arm takes the first part of landing
impact loads. The springs begin to strecth only when a load of approx.
150 kg (310 lbs) is acting on the nose wheel, which is much, much more than experienced
with normal trigear landings where the nose wheel touches gently during
roll-out.
>I do not think that square section wire is the way to go in order to increase
the contact area/decrease the risk of wear on the tubes. It will be very difficult
to manufacture the spring so that a flat side lies squarely aginst both
the upper and the lower tube (or any of them, for that matter) in the actual installation.
A sharp edge will be much worse for the tubes than a round cross
section.
>
>- Galvanic corrosion should not be of great concern here. Besides, except in
countries where IFR is permitted for Experimental class, dry runways will be the
norm. I would not be surprised if a plastic tube over the hooks for insulation
will yield quickly with the substantial pressure applied at a very small
contact area. Also note that the Dutch springs have hooks rounded to a diameter
corresponding very closely to the diameter of the upper and lower tubes (having
different diameter, too), so any plastic tube on the hooks will reduce the
diameter and therefore will easily be damaged just by installing them. Increasing
the hook diameter to allow for a suitable insulation could of course be
done, but this must be done at manufacturing as the Ducth wire is 8 mm.
>
>Nevertheless, good points, both of them, and only time will tell for sure. Therefore,
these points warrant inspection along with all the other areas that must
be checked regularly.
>
>Regards,
>Svein
>A225 - now in Norway
>
>
>
>
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