---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/02/05: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:42 AM - Re: Members (BEBERRY@aol.com) 2. 02:01 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05 (Graham Singleton) 3. 02:23 AM - Re: Nose Gear Springs (Graham Pocock) 4. 02:35 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05 (Tim Weert) 5. 03:31 AM - Re: Nose Gear Springs (G-IANI) 6. 04:06 AM - Classic radiator (Bill Henderson) 7. 04:40 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05 (R.C.Harrison) 8. 05:11 AM - Re: Argentina (William Daniell) 9. 05:19 AM - Re: Springs (Steve Hagar) 10. 09:29 AM - Re: europa flyer #46 (sep 05) (josok) 11. 11:02 AM - Builders in Argentina (nigel charles) 12. 01:04 PM - Nose gear springs (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 13. 02:27 PM - Re: Builders in Argentina (William Daniell) 14. 03:51 PM - Re: Nose gear springs (N55XS) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:42:18 AM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Members --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com Rowland -as you mention that you are polishing the members list before hand over, perhaps you could make an amendment to my details of G PUDS. I have now fitted an Arplst VP prop to replace rthe Warp Drive, Thanks Patrick ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:01:26 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05 --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton Thanks to all those who have declared an interest in the Trigear bungee replacement springs. At this moment 13 builders have said they are interested. Here is some background so you know where we have got to. Two springs have been used to replace the nose wheel bungee and this has been done on at least five aircraft (on the Dutch register). Ian & all Might I suggest some more research into spring availability. First, springs are available using square section wire, which would be less agressive on the gear leg attachment stub, and the LG01. I wonder if 5 years down the line there will be grooves worn in the structure. I would also much prefer to see some sort of protection to prevent this future problem. Danley Spring Co make a huge range of springs, the Long EZ nose gear spring is a Danley and its square wire. (Compression though, not tension) Graham ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:38 AM PST US From: "Graham Pocock" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nose Gear Springs --> Europa-List message posted by: "Graham Pocock" I am interested in these springs too. Fit and forget sounds good, re-tightening bungees and all that entails sounds like a finger nipping job. I haven't got to that bit in the build yet though! Graham Pocock 535 Tri-gear Do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:47 AM PST US From: "Tim Weert" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Weert" Hi Graham, I protected the Spring/bar connection by plastic tubes. This isolates electrical currents which might start between two different metals during a corrosion process and protects the wite paint on the bars. The pics on the web http://www.europaowners.org/album135 are from Jac van Heeswijk's bird. The one "Upper side Coil Spring " with the wite bar is from my own bird. As soon as possible (VFR weather between Holland and the UK) I'lI fly Ian's and Ivor's ciol springs to the UK. I think it's wise to have some patience and wait untill Ian and Ivor have received their PFA approval. Than the conditions for the MOD are clear and there might be some small additional requirements in the specs. list. Regards, Tim. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:08 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nose Gear Springs --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" Thanks for the comments. You have a good point. Andy Draper is aware of the possibility of denting the tube and thinks it will be OK but will do some calculations to check. My aim is to simplify things for the average builder, particularly with the PFA. I have picked up the project "as is" and unfortunately lack the time to do a lot of in depth research. Yes there are probably better options so can anyone out there offer us some further advice/research. Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05 Ian & all Might I suggest some more research into spring availability. First, springs are available using square section wire, which would be less aggressive on the gear leg attachment stub, and the LG01. I wonder if 5 years down the line there will be grooves worn in the structure. I would also much prefer to see some sort of protection to prevent this future problem. Danley Spring Co make a huge range of springs, the Long EZ nose gear spring is a Danley and its square wire. (Compression though, not tension) Graham ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:09 AM PST US From: "Bill Henderson" Subject: Europa-List: Classic radiator --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bill Henderson" Looking for a starbord radiator for the classic. If anyone has one they will not be using, please email me directly with location and price. Thanks, Bill Henderson A010 Classic Monowheel ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:45 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05 --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Graham, That's a very good point you make ...it had crossed my mind to probably get a nylon sleeve pushed on to the ends of the spring and/or a piece of nylon suitably wrapped round the members onto which the springs will act.( probably clipped with Junilee Clips) Regards Bob H Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 ( with upside down bump stop after bungee failure!) Robt.C.Harrison -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 11/01/05 --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton Thanks to all those who have declared an interest in the Trigear bungee replacement springs. At this moment 13 builders have said they are interested. Here is some background so you know where we have got to. Two springs have been used to replace the nose wheel bungee and this has been done on at least five aircraft (on the Dutch register). Ian & all Might I suggest some more research into spring availability. First, springs are available using square section wire, which would be less agressive on the gear leg attachment stub, and the LG01. I wonder if 5 years down the line there will be grooves worn in the structure. I would also much prefer to see some sort of protection to prevent this future problem. Danley Spring Co make a huge range of springs, the Long EZ nose gear spring is a Danley and its square wire. (Compression though, not tension) Graham ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:35 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Argentina --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Rowland, Yes I would like to join the club but the thing is that snail mail does not work for us - the tropical factor. Internet is a much better communication method. However maybe we could do something like invent a Latin America chapter...? I would be happy to set it up. In the meantime can you give me the emails of the Argentine builders? I am setting up a business here and will be here for sometime and am looking to entertain myself on weekends. Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: Argentina --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson At 2005-11-01 08:37 -0500 William Daniell wrote: >Any builders in Argentina?? Will - the only ones I know of are: kit mark builder ARG001 Oscar Ogas ARG002 LV-X263 Oscar Martinelli ARG003 LV-X275 Luis Fernndez (Europa Club member) More info about them is available on the Europa Club CD-ROM, issued to all new members. The Data Protection Act prevents release of personal details to non-members. Club Committee member Nigel Charles has visited with Luis on his stopovers there and found him very congenial. Your old pal David Corbett from Shobdon keeps telling me to twist your arm to join the Club, but with the very unreliable postal service in Colombia it seems that may not be a cost-effective move for you - unless and until we establish an online-only membership category. The membership database I am still polishing prior to transfer to Gerry has provision for that; the Committee have discussed it in the past, but no decision has been reached. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson (retiring) Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info! | Europa 435 G-ROWI (750 hours building) PFA #16532 | e-mail website ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:46 AM PST US From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Springs --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" The easiest way is to go to the guy on this list and ask him what he is using and order springs to the same specifications. Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: N55XS > To: > Date: 11/1/2005 6:24:37 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Springs > > --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS > > Steve, > > How would one go about determining the technical requirements for the > Europa springs? > > Jeff - N55XS > 99.9 hours > > Steve Hagar wrote: > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" > > > >In my job as a manufacturing engineer in a plant I have occasion to use different springs. The characteristics of the spring are wholly determined the material, diameter of the wire and diameter of the coil. There arre several if not many houses out there who do nothing but wind springs. Many are standard and do not have to be specially made. In following this thread about the springs I seem to get the impression that every one thinks there is a special recipe to get these springs from a special unique supplier. What you want is an extension spring with a certain diameter wire, certain diameter coil and of a certain length. You can call Lee Spring, or Capitol spring or many others to see if is one of their stock units or what it would take for them to wind it special which they do all the time. You can find them on the internet. > > > >Steve Hagar > >A143 > >Mesa, AZ > > > > > >Steve Hagar > >hagargs@earthlink.net > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:14 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: europa flyer #46 (sep 05) From: "josok" 0.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" It made a left turn, a few days ago in Gothenburg, won't be long anymore, have a look: Jos Okhuijsen ---------------- This Email contains Photos or Attachments located at the following link: http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p=8178#8178 ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:42 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: Europa-List: Builders in Argentina --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" There are 3 completed trigear Europas in Argentina. I used to visit them most months a few years ago. The only English speaker is Luis Fernandez. He can be contacted at luisaeromarine@yahoo.com.ar. Hope this is of some help. Nigel Charles > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list- server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William > Daniell > Sent: 01 November 2005 13:37 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Argentina > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" > --> > > > Any builders in Argentina?? > > Will > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > EuropaForum > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nose gear springs > > --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum > --> > > This should work also if the long URL is broken for someone. > http://www.europaowners.org/album135 > > Steved > > > I placed some pics in http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php? > > set_albumName=album135&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view > > _album.php > > > > Regards, Tim. > > > > > Unlimited Tiscali Broadband from 14.99! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:39 PM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Europa-List: Nose gear springs --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Hi all, As I have already installed the Dutch designed/Dutch manufactured springs, I have reflected on some of the information/suggestions on the forum today: - Risk of hooks making grooves on the tubes: Cannot be ruled out, of course, but can only happen if the hooks rotate on the tubes. This requires that the springs are stretched, which in turn means unusually hard nose wheel landings. The flexibility of the tire and the nose gear arm takes the first part of landing impact loads. The springs begin to strecth only when a load of approx. 150 kg (310 lbs) is acting on the nose wheel, which is much, much more than experienced with normal trigear landings where the nose wheel touches gently during roll-out. I do not think that square section wire is the way to go in order to increase the contact area/decrease the risk of wear on the tubes. It will be very difficult to manufacture the spring so that a flat side lies squarely aginst both the upper and the lower tube (or any of them, for that matter) in the actual installation. A sharp edge will be much worse for the tubes than a round cross section. - Galvanic corrosion should not be of great concern here. Besides, except in countries where IFR is permitted for Experimental class, dry runways will be the norm. I would not be surprised if a plastic tube over the hooks for insulation will yield quickly with the substantial pressure applied at a very small contact area. Also note that the Dutch springs have hooks rounded to a diameter corresponding very closely to the diameter of the upper and lower tubes (having different diameter, too), so any plastic tube on the hooks will reduce the diameter and therefore will easily be damaged just by installing them. Increasing the hook diameter to allow for a suitable insulation could of course be done, but this must be done at manufacturing as the Ducth wire is 8 mm. Nevertheless, good points, both of them, and only time will tell for sure. Therefore, these points warrant inspection along with all the other areas that must be checked regularly. Regards, Svein A225 - now in Norway ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:04 PM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Builders in Argentina --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Thanks - Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel charles Subject: Europa-List: Builders in Argentina --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" There are 3 completed trigear Europas in Argentina. I used to visit them most months a few years ago. The only English speaker is Luis Fernandez. He can be contacted at luisaeromarine@yahoo.com.ar. Hope this is of some help. Nigel Charles > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list- server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William > Daniell > Sent: 01 November 2005 13:37 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Argentina > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" > --> > > > Any builders in Argentina?? > > Will > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > EuropaForum > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nose gear springs > > --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum > --> > > This should work also if the long URL is broken for someone. > http://www.europaowners.org/album135 > > Steved > > > I placed some pics in http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php? > > set_albumName=album135&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view > > _album.php > > > > Regards, Tim. > > > > > Unlimited Tiscali Broadband from 14.99! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:58 PM PST US From: N55XS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Nose gear springs --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS Svein, Would it be possible for you to post the actual specs of the spring being manufacutred? If it is possible to closely match these specs, off the shelf springs may be attainable more readily and at a reduced cost, here in the US. Thanks in advance for any information you can render... Jeff - N55XS 99.9 hours Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" > >Hi all, > >As I have already installed the Dutch designed/Dutch manufactured springs, I have reflected on some of the information/suggestions on the forum today: > >- Risk of hooks making grooves on the tubes: Cannot be ruled out, of course, but can only happen if the hooks rotate on the tubes. This requires that the springs are stretched, which in turn means unusually hard nose wheel landings. The flexibility of the tire and the nose gear arm takes the first part of landing impact loads. The springs begin to strecth only when a load of approx. 150 kg (310 lbs) is acting on the nose wheel, which is much, much more than experienced with normal trigear landings where the nose wheel touches gently during roll-out. >I do not think that square section wire is the way to go in order to increase the contact area/decrease the risk of wear on the tubes. It will be very difficult to manufacture the spring so that a flat side lies squarely aginst both the upper and the lower tube (or any of them, for that matter) in the actual installation. A sharp edge will be much worse for the tubes than a round cross section. > >- Galvanic corrosion should not be of great concern here. Besides, except in countries where IFR is permitted for Experimental class, dry runways will be the norm. I would not be surprised if a plastic tube over the hooks for insulation will yield quickly with the substantial pressure applied at a very small contact area. Also note that the Dutch springs have hooks rounded to a diameter corresponding very closely to the diameter of the upper and lower tubes (having different diameter, too), so any plastic tube on the hooks will reduce the diameter and therefore will easily be damaged just by installing them. Increasing the hook diameter to allow for a suitable insulation could of course be done, but this must be done at manufacturing as the Ducth wire is 8 mm. > >Nevertheless, good points, both of them, and only time will tell for sure. Therefore, these points warrant inspection along with all the other areas that must be checked regularly. > >Regards, >Svein >A225 - now in Norway > > > >