---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/18/05: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:11 AM - G-IRON; Empty weight (Fred Klein) 2. 08:40 AM - Re: G-IRON; Empty weight (G-IANI) 3. 10:15 AM - Re: G-IRON; Empty weight (KARL HEINDL) 4. 12:33 PM - Flaps on Trigear (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 5. 12:44 PM - Firewall Integrity (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 6. 12:46 PM - Re: Flaps on Trigear (BEBERRY@aol.com) 7. 01:00 PM - Re: Flaps on Trigear (Cliff Shaw) 8. 01:30 PM - Re: door push rods (steve v.) 9. 01:43 PM - Re: Flaps on Trigear (R.C.Harrison) 10. 02:08 PM - Re: Firewall Integrity (D Wysong) 11. 02:17 PM - interior carpet (steve v.) 12. 02:43 PM - Re: interior carpet (William Daniell) 13. 02:43 PM - Re: interior carpet (Cliff Shaw) 14. 02:45 PM - Re: interior carpet (Jeff B) 15. 03:16 PM - Display of the Pound Symbol : WAS 914 Spark Plugs (Bruce) 16. 05:00 PM - Re: Display of the Pound Symbol : WAS 914 Spark Plugs (Cliff Shaw) 17. 05:15 PM - Re: interior carpet (JEFF ROBERTS) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:52 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: G-IRON; Empty weight From: Fred Klein --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein Congratulations on a successful first flight! Thank you for including your empty weight of 950 lb. I assume this figure includes fluids (other than useable fuel) and follows the protocols (though I for one, would not be able to spell them out) for determining weight. By any chance, does a log exist for posting the weights and performances of flying Europas outside of the Europa Club list which, I've noted, Rowland works hard to keep current? Fred A194 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:12 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: G-IRON; Empty weight --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" Weight is with all fluids including unusable fuel and includes fire extinguisher, headsets, speed kit etc. Everything except personal possessions. G-IANI and G_Iron are very similar except G-IRON is a Hightop. We both have heavy vacuum panels. G-IANI is 920lbs and we expected G-IRON to be say 920 so 950 came as a bit of a surprise. We have not yet had time to investigate in detail. G-IRON's paint is probably heavier but not 30lbs? I am not aware of any posting of Europa weights and performance except Rolland's valiant efforts. Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:15:21 AM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: RE: Europa-List: G-IRON; Empty weight --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Ian, Your note implies a full tank of fuel ? I thought empty weight was with unusable fuel only. Cheers, Karl >From: "G-IANI" >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: Europa-List: G-IRON; Empty weight >Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:39:48 -0000 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" > >Weight is with all fluids including unusable fuel and includes fire >extinguisher, headsets, speed kit etc. Everything except personal >possessions. > >G-IANI and G_Iron are very similar except G-IRON is a Hightop. We both >have >heavy vacuum panels. G-IANI is 920lbs and we expected G-IRON to be say 920 >so 950 came as a bit of a surprise. We have not yet had time to >investigate >in detail. G-IRON's paint is probably heavier but not 30lbs? > >I am not aware of any posting of Europa weights and performance except >Rolland's valiant efforts. > >Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear >Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) >e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk > or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:38 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Flaps on Trigear --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Good Day All, I had a quick question......in spite of the fact that I'm still about a year, or so, from flying. With the monowheel aircraft, the flaps are extended with the same control that brings the main wheel and outriggers up and down. On a tri gear takeoff, do you extend your flaps since they are now independent? Do you ever make flap up landings? Any big difference in the two approaches? Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:22 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Firewall Integrity --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Good Day All, I'm working on my wiring layout and I have a little question for those before me. I have come across a couple of terminal boards that are designed to plug into perforated boards. The pins extend straight down from the terminal board approx. 5/8" (15mm) from it's underside. Does anyone see any problem with me drilling two series of seven small holes in a line and then backfilling with heat resistant sealer? I could then solder the connections on the engine side going to the oil temp and pressure, CHT's, EGT, ammeter, warning light, starter switch, etc. In order to remove the panel I would simply unscrew from the terminal boards. This would save from having to cut a large hole for a round bulkhead connector...not to mention the expense. Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:46:17 PM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flaps on Trigear --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com Mike - use the flaps as you would for any 'normal 'aeroplane. I always use one stage for take off regardless of length of runway as I think this is good practice. For landing use as much as you need but I find that with a strong crosswind it is often better to use just two stages. All depends on what runway you are using - length, surface etc. Patrick ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:00:12 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flaps on Trigear --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Mike Yes Yes Yes You can fly the plane as you see fit. I usually use half flaps on take off. That is recommended in the Europa POH. I have made no flap take-offs, too. They require a higher speed for lift-off. The plane accelerates a little faster with the flaps up, but roles further to get up to lift-off speed. I land with full flaps. I can't see the runway otherwise. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE ----- Original Message ----- From: DuaneFamly@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 12:29 PM Subject: Europa-List: Flaps on Trigear --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Good Day All, I had a quick question......in spite of the fact that I'm still about a year, or so, from flying. With the monowheel aircraft, the flaps are extended with the same control that brings the main wheel and outriggers up and down. On a tri gear takeoff, do you extend your flaps since they are now independent? Do you ever make flap up landings? Any big difference in the two approaches? Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:30:30 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: door push rods From: "steve v." 0.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." hi Raimo, i too constructed the shoot bolts " within a mm " of the manual spec., and , as you have described , i also had variations in the protruding distance of the shootbolts when extended. the factory reply was that if there is " 1/2" of the flat area of the shoot bolt protruding " then that is suficient for the installation - i did not remake them as mine were within spec. hope this is of some help. steve #573. ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:43:49 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Flaps on Trigear --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Mike. Independent Electric Flaps on a trike enable recommended 18deg of flap for take off, and full flap for landing gives a better insurance against wind shear on landing. Also the slower touch down speed with full flaps saves some tyre wear. Regards Bob Harrison Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Flaps on Trigear --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Good Day All, I had a quick question......in spite of the fact that I'm still about a year, or so, from flying. With the monowheel aircraft, the flaps are extended with the same control that brings the main wheel and outriggers up and down. On a tri gear takeoff, do you extend your flaps since they are now independent? Do you ever make flap up landings? Any big difference in the two approaches? Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:02 PM PST US From: D Wysong Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall Integrity --> Europa-List message posted by: D Wysong Playing "Devil's Advocate" here, Mike... On the hot side of the firewall, will there be enough room to get to those solder joints and repair/rewire them after you've installed everything under your cowl? This is, of course, when things will go wrong with those sensor leads. When you want to pull your panel, do you REALLY want to hunt down a tiny screwdriver and a flashlight to go after all those screw terminals? Wouldn't you rather be able to blindly reach under the panel and twist a single disconnect for all of those sensors? Better yet, when go to reinstall your panel, will your wire labels still be there? Will you be able to read them in the dark (because the wife "borrowed" (stole) the flashlight)? Will you remember which terminal hooks to what? Yikes... Instead of a bulkhead connector, how about feeding the sensor wires into the cockpit via a properly sealed, "small" hole. Bob Nuckolls describes firewall penetrations and sealing here: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Firewall_Penetration/firewall.html Once inside the cockpit, terminate your wires into a regular old inline connector and secure the bundle to your firewall. Bring your panel wires into a mating connector, hook up the single harness, and you're done. No screwdriver/flashlight/batteries required. D -------- DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com > > Good Day All, > > I'm working on my wiring layout and I have a little question for those > before me. I have come across a couple of terminal boards that are designed to > plug into perforated boards. The pins extend straight down from the terminal > board approx. 5/8" (15mm) from it's underside. Does anyone see any problem with > me drilling two series of seven small holes in a line and then backfilling > with heat resistant sealer? I could then solder the connections on the engine > side going to the oil temp and pressure, CHT's, EGT, ammeter, warning light, > starter switch, etc. In order to remove the panel I would simply unscrew from > the terminal boards. > This would save from having to cut a large hole for a round bulkhead > connector...not to mention the expense. > > Mike Duane A207A > Redding, California > XS Conventional Gear > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:56 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: interior carpet From: "steve v." 0.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." hi, can anyone give me details of a supplier of light weight interior carpet so that i can compare it to the cost of a "supplied kit ", thanks , steve #573 by the way , can anyone explain why the last 30% is taking longer than the first 70% ? ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:11 PM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: interior carpet --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" AS they say 90% done - 90% to do. Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve v. Subject: Europa-List: interior carpet --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." hi, can anyone give me details of a supplier of light weight interior carpet so that i can compare it to the cost of a "supplied kit ", thanks , steve #573 by the way , can anyone explain why the last 30% is taking longer than the first 70% ? ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:11 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: interior carpet --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Steve Wate till you are 90% with only 90% left to go. I don't know why, but it seems to just be that way. I know, I did it twice. (and it was worse the second time) Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: steve v. Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 2:17 PM Subject: Europa-List: interior carpet --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." hi, can anyone give me details of a supplier of light weight interior carpet so that i can compare it to the cost of a "supplied kit ", thanks , steve #573 by the way , can anyone explain why the last 30% is taking longer than the first 70% ? ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:32 PM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: interior carpet --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff B Auto stores such as Auto Zone, in the US have extremely light weight carpet for around $8 a roll. Takes 3 or 4 rolls to do the entire cockpit... Jeff - N55XS 106+ hours steve v. wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." > > hi, > > can anyone give me details of a supplier of light weight interior carpet so that i can compare it to the cost of a "supplied kit ", > thanks , steve #573 > > by the way , can anyone explain why the last 30% is taking longer than the first 70% ? > ---------------- > Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ > > > > > > > > -- Checked by AVG Free Edition. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:08 PM PST US From: "Bruce" Subject: Display of the Pound Symbol : WAS Europa-List: 914 Spark Plugs --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bruce" All, ---------- I had some time to kill on a commercial flight earlier today, so put this together with the hope that it might be helpful. Sorry for the length, but I tried to keep it as non-technical as I could. That made the explanation longer, but perhaps more understandable to the masses. ---------- I spent a number of years in the font industry dealing with both technical and artistic issues so this issue of displaying special characters is an issue that I'm somewhat familiar with. I don't consider myself an expert by any means especially since I know engineers who have spent their entire careers dealing with these display and compatibility issues, so please don't jump on my comments below as being too simplistic. Before I start my explanation, I should mention that some of you may recognize this as a MIME error. You can easily spot MIME display problems anytime you see an "=" (equals sign) that seems to be out of place. Sometimes you will see this "=" sign as part of a string such as "=A3" which is discussed below, or you may see at the end of each line. You are also likely viewing a MIME problem when the entire page is gibberish. Let's skip the history of the internet, its use of the 7-bit US ASCII character set with 128 characters, and the later development of numerous technologies that support extended character sets. (extended character sets can contain tens of thousands of unique characters in addition to the 128 characters supported by US ASCII). I should mention too that the internet can only transport those 128 unique US ASCII characters, and that anything and everything other than those 128 characters must first be encoded by your e-mail or browser software into combinations or codes made up of those 128 characters before it can be transmitted. The scenario: You type an e-mail and you include the UK Pound symbol. Unbeknownst to you, YOUR e-mail software will convert this to the code "=A3" before it is sent. Your software does this since it knows that the internet can't transport special symbols or characters unless they are first converted to character codes made up of the 128 permissible US ASCII characters. As the sender of this message, your e-mail software is also smart enough to know that it needs to make a comment in the HEADER so that the RECEPIENT'S software is informed that the message BODY contains codes that need to be decoded in the manner specified. (Think of the header as an envelope wrapped around the message body). Under normal circumstances when you transmit this message directly to another person, the RECEPIENT'S e-mail software will look at the HEADER to learn what decoding method, if any, was used before it opens the message-BODY and swaps out the "=A3" for the Pound symbol which it will display. Realize that after this e-mail left your computer headed for the internet, neither the BODY nor the HEADER of your message ever actually contained the Pound symbol (which means there is no Pound symbol that could have been stripped out.) Realize also that the BODY of your message does not contain any clue that the "=A3" is a code that needs to be decoded before it is displayed, and without that clue, it will be displayed as just plain old ASCII text. The clue that the message text actually contains codes that need to be decoded is in the HEADER, not the message BODY and that is the problem. The Problem: The display problem arises because like most legacy (older but well established) news-lists, the software used by our Europa-List host (Matronics) strips off much of the HEADER information along with all attachments and formatting information. It does this for a number of good reasons relating to document size, archive size, size of list digests, search engine speed, and virus elimination. After all that filtering and reformatting is accomplished on your e-mail, the "sanitized" version of the e-mail is forwarded to the list-subscribers and stored in the archives. But because the HEADER information that would inform the RECEPIENT'S e-mail software about the need to decode is no longer present, the RECEPIENT'S software just simply displays the "=A3" contained in the message body as plain ASCII text. I hope that long-winded explanation made sense. Unfortunately, I've addressed only a couple of MIME issues. People who have MIME issues more severe than the occasional display of a few codes and equal signs are facing issues that can arise from your choice of computing platform, operating systems, and encoding options. By the way, I'm not aware of any way in MS Outlook to eliminate the sending of special characters. I tried "plain text" but that did not trap symbols entered from the keyboard. Perhaps fooling around with the international options may work, but maybe it would be easier just to remember not to use them. I imagine there is no easy fix that can be made to the list-server software either, and perhaps that explains why so many discussion groups, especially the newer ones are web-based HTML rather than e-mail based ASCII text. Regards, Bruce XS142 - Berube Conventional Gear Tracy, CA ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:51 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Display of the Pound Symbol : WAS Europa-List: 914 Spark Plugs --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Thanks Bruce !!! That is the best explanation I have seen. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:57 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: interior carpet --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS On Nov 18, 2005, at 4:17 PM, steve v. wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." > > hi, > > can anyone give me details of a supplier of light weight interior > carpet so that i can compare it to the cost of a "supplied kit ", > thanks , steve #573 > > by the way , can anyone explain why the last 30% is taking longer than > the first 70% ? Yes, Because the last 30 is really the last 70%. The first parts are bigger and that is very deceiving. Do not archive, Jeff A258 Installing interior, have a coolant leak, and RPM's are reading wrong. But it's running great and it looks great! > ---------------- > Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ > >