---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/21/05: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:11 AM - Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... (Matt Dralle) 2. 04:12 AM - Re: DOTH Tuesday/Wed? (David Joyce) 3. 10:03 AM - Flying a heavy Europa XS? () 4. 10:13 AM - Flying a heavy Europa XS? () 5. 12:43 PM - Preparing for first flight (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 6. 01:13 PM - Propellers (KARL HEINDL) 7. 01:14 PM - Re: Preparing for first flight (Al Stills) 8. 03:18 PM - Re: Propellers (Fred Klein) 9. 03:18 PM - Re: Propellers (Sven den Boer) 10. 04:19 PM - Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (Jeff B) 11. 05:24 PM - Re: Propellers (Tony Krzyzewski) 12. 05:25 PM - Re: Propellers (KARL HEINDL) 13. 06:10 PM - Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (GLENN CROWDER) 14. 06:45 PM - Re: Propellers (grroberts3@juno.com) 15. 07:47 PM - Re: Propellers (GLENN CROWDER) 16. 09:51 PM - Re: Propellers (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:16 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... --> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great services!! The Contribution Site is fast and easy: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:22 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday/Wed? --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" Bryan, I am up for that if the fog (which is being a bit of a problem hereabouts at present) has cleared. Regards, David, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday/Wed? > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" > > The listing has not been accepting my mail recently, and I have not been able to respond to DOTHs. Hopefully this has been rectified. > > Anyone up for a doth to Peterborough (Conington) EGSF, Tues or Wed? > > Cheers. Bryan Allsop > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > "Fantastic service... saves a lot of time for me... I only have to go to one page." > http://www.doctors.net.uk/journalwatch > _______________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:41 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS? From: --> Europa-List message posted by: Taking more notice of completed aircraft empty weights of Europa XS, there have been many to come in a lot heavier than 750 pounds. Flight testing on short wings I don't think exceeded 1370 pounds. I was wondering if those out there who flew at or over 1450 pounds could share weights, CG and how aeroplane handeled and general comments. Especial interested in what it may have taken to wipe out Monowheel undercarriage and at what weight. Also spin entry and recovery handeling, especial in thin air at more aft CGs. I learned (the hard way) from models, that a fair manored craft, can become a bear , in other words more easily enter a spin, and essential become unrecoverable if you make the air thin,or increase the weight. Sometimes a time honored CG is too aft for heavier weights, and acceptable control throws for a lighter weight are unacceptable for heavy. Info on long wings at heavy weights also appreciated. Thx. Ron Parigoris Here in the US the builder can choose the gross weight. Not prudent to regularly fly a 1500 pound 912 XS out of a 1500 foot strip that has a high density altitude. For an occasional long flight with a intercooled 914 with CS prop flying out @ sunrise from a wide mile long runway over reasonable hospitable terrain, near sea level at 60F sounds to be an acceptable practice? Problem is if you exceed gross weight listed in operating limitations, besides the potential for FAA to get on after you, even from a plain vanella ramp check, Insurance coverage may be void. If a plane were ever to be sold, easy to go back into phase 1 and change gross weight limit. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:13:09 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS? From: --> Europa-List message posted by: Taking more notice of completed aircraft empty weights of XS Europas, there have been many to come in a lot heavier than 750 pounds. Flight testing on short wings I don't think exceeded 1370 pounds. I was wondering if those out there who flew at or over 1450 pounds could share weights, CG and how aeroplane handeled and general comments. Especial interested in what it may have taken to wipe out Monowheel undercarriage and at what weight. Also spin entry and recovery handeling, especial in thin air at more aft CGs. I learned (the hard way) from models, that a fair manured craft, can become a bear , in other words more easily enter a spin, and essential become unrecoverable if you make the air thin,or increase the weight. Sometimes a time honored CG is too aft for heavier weights, and acceptable control throws for a lighter weight are unacceptable for heavier weight. Info on long wings at heavy weights also appreciated. Thx. Ron Parigoris Here in the US the builder can choose the gross weight. Not prudent to regularly fly a 1500 pound 912 XS out of a 1500 foot strip that has a high density altitude. For an occasional long flight with a intercooled 914 with CS prop flying out @ sunrise from a wide mile long runway over reasonable hospitable terrain, near sea level at 60F sounds to be an acceptable practice? Problem is if you exceed gross weight listed in operating limitations, besides the potential for FAA to get on after you, even from a plain vanilla ramp check, Insurance coverage may be void. If a plane were ever to be sold, easy to go back into phase 1 and change gross weight limit. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:06 PM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Europa-List: Preparing for first flight --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" In anticipation of first flight this coming spring and the 50 hours of verification program after that, I have the following question to the U.S. participants on this forum: - I am considering attending FCI's unusual attitude/upset recovery training course conducted in Mesa, AZ. Do any of you know this company or their 3 day/5 mission Emergency Maneuver Training course? - Is there anywhere in the U.S. where I can get transition training in a Europa, with a CFI? Have valid FAA PPL/medical. - Will the Diamond Katana offer similar (to a certain extent) flying characteristics as the Europa? This aircraft is operated by several flying schools in the U.S., and therefore may be more readily available for relevant practice than a Europa. Regards, Svein A225 - XS Trigear - now in Norway ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:55 PM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: Europa-List: Propellers --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Propeller Experts !! I wish to upgrade to a CS prop with full feather option, the main reason being the feathering capability. The obvious choice for many is the Airmaster AP332. Now the Woodcomp SR3000 has the same options, and I believe is a lot cheaper. In addition it has the option for a 2 or 3-bladed propeller. My question is this : What are the pros and cons between 2 and 3 blades, apart from the considerable weight saving of 4 kg. Why are we all using 3-bladed Warp Drives ? The Katana, which is a similar but much heavier aircraft uses a 2-bladed CS Hoffmann on a Rotax 912. Any ideas ? Karl ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:06 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Preparing for first flight From: "Al Stills" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Al Stills" Svein, I've been wanting to take the same class from FCI. I live in Phoenix, just a short hop ovet to Mesa. I've heard nothing but "good" from anyone who's been there. I have a friend scheduled for 11/29/05 for one of their flights. Good school with """"very""" experienced pilots. As for the Katana, I've logged approximately 40 Hrs in the DA20 and can confirm it's probabbly as close as we can get to the Europa. Great flying plane and a great trainer. Very hot in the summer with that "Big" window.The Europa is a little faster but pretty close. If you come this way let me or Steve Hager know....(Steve lives in Mesa) Al Stills N625AZ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers From: Fred Klein --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein I'm certainly not an expert, but I suspect that available ground clearance and allowable prop diameter would factor into any Europa/Katana comparison rather than the use of the same engine. I suspect that with the small area of Europa prop, three blades can absorb more hp for a given diameter at a given rpm than two blades, and keeping the rpm down is key to the low noise level of the Europa. A factor to consider w/ the Airmaster/Europa combination is the cut down WD blade length which results in insufficient twist which in turn...according to some knowledgeable folks I've corresponded with...leads to negative thrust being generated by the inner portions of the blade at coarse pitch. Airmaster acknowledges that the WP blades are not optimal for the Europa due to diameter limits; unfortunately, WD has no apparent interest in producing a small diameter blade w/ more twist. I'm not familiar w/ the blades used in the Woodcomp set up. Fred A194 On Monday, November 21, 2005, at 01:13 PM, KARL HEINDL wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" > > > Propeller Experts !! > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:07 PM PST US From: "Sven den Boer" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer" Karl SR 3000 seems good choice to me, will fit one myself early next year. Beautifully crafted piece of prop I bought. 3 blades save noise and vibration and there is always the nice 2/3 blade compare on required diameter. With a monowheel you definately would like to have some ground clearance. I suggest you also check the archives, loads of stuff on props... Cheers Sven den Boer A168 ----- Original Message ----- From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: Europa-List: Propellers > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" > > > Propeller Experts !! > > I wish to upgrade to a CS prop with full feather option, the main reason > being the feathering capability. The obvious choice for many is the > Airmaster AP332. Now the Woodcomp SR3000 has the same options, and I > believe > is a lot cheaper. In addition it has the option for a 2 or 3-bladed > propeller. My question is this : > What are the pros and cons between 2 and 3 blades, apart from the > considerable weight saving of 4 kg. Why are we all using 3-bladed Warp > Drives ? The Katana, which is a similar but much heavier aircraft uses a > 2-bladed CS Hoffmann on a Rotax 912. > > Any ideas ? > > Karl > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:28 PM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS? --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff B Ron, I listed N55XS, a tri-gear, at 1450, gross. The plane weighs 925 lbs and CG comes in at about 60". With the wife and I and a full load of fuel, it is impossible to go beyond the aft CG and still remain within the gross weight. We made a 900 mile cross country at, or very close to gross, taking off from various fields, some of which were at 3500 ft, without any problems. The Europa seems to be happy with this configuration, at these altitudes. Handling, in the air was delightful... rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > Taking more notice of completed aircraft empty weights of XS Europas, > there have been many to come in a lot heavier than 750 pounds. > > Flight testing on short wings I don't think exceeded 1370 pounds. > > I was wondering if those out there who flew at or over 1450 pounds could > share weights, CG and how aeroplane handeled and general comments. > > Especial interested in what it may have taken to wipe out Monowheel > undercarriage and at what weight. > > Also spin entry and recovery handeling, especial in thin air at more aft > CGs. > > I learned (the hard way) from models, that a fair manured craft, can > become a bear , in other words more easily enter a spin, and essential > become unrecoverable if you make the air thin,or increase the weight. > Sometimes a time honored CG is too aft for heavier weights, and acceptable > control throws for a lighter weight are unacceptable for heavier weight. > > Info on long wings at heavy weights also appreciated. > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris > > Here in the US the builder can choose the gross weight. Not prudent to > regularly fly a 1500 pound 912 XS out of a 1500 foot strip that has a high > density altitude. For an occasional long flight with a intercooled 914 > with CS prop flying out @ sunrise from a wide mile long runway over > reasonable hospitable terrain, near sea level at 60F sounds to be an > acceptable practice? Problem is if you exceed gross weight listed in > operating limitations, besides the potential for FAA to get on after you, > even from a plain vanilla ramp check, Insurance coverage may be void. If a > plane were ever to be sold, easy to go back into phase 1 and change gross > weight limit. > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:59 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Propellers From: "Tony Krzyzewski" Received-SPF: none --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" >> A factor to consider w/ the Airmaster/Europa combination is the cut down WD blade length which results in insufficient twist which in turn... What cut down blade length? Airmaster don't alter the blade length from the standard warp drive supplied by the factory, all they do to the standard blade is add a fitting in the base to allow the airmaster hub to rotate the blade. Tony ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:00 PM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Sven and Fred, Thank you for your reply. I will try the archives but I think the SR3000 with constant speed must be a very recent option. With the trigear clearance should't be a problem if I were to choose the 1700mm, but I don't really know at this point. I know in theory there could be a little more noise, but is that a problem ? Weight is important to me as my empty cg is already quite far forward. Actually, I find the cockpit noise quite loud with my headphones off, but who knows how much of that is wind, engine, or propeller noise. Another consideration is reduced drag when in glider mode. According to Bryan Allsop the 3-blade SR2000 is much smoother than the WD he had previously. I have all winter to think about it. Karl >From: "Sven den Boer" >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers >Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:16:28 +0100 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer" > > >Karl > >SR 3000 seems good choice to me, will fit one myself early next year. >Beautifully crafted piece of prop I bought. >3 blades save noise and vibration and there is always the nice 2/3 blade >compare on required diameter. >With a monowheel you definately would like to have some ground clearance. >I suggest you also check the archives, loads of stuff on props... > >Cheers > >Sven den Boer >A168 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "KARL HEINDL" >To: >Subject: Europa-List: Propellers > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" > > > > > > Propeller Experts !! > > > > I wish to upgrade to a CS prop with full feather option, the main reason > > being the feathering capability. The obvious choice for many is the > > Airmaster AP332. Now the Woodcomp SR3000 has the same options, and I > > believe > > is a lot cheaper. In addition it has the option for a 2 or 3-bladed > > propeller. My question is this : > > What are the pros and cons between 2 and 3 blades, apart from the > > considerable weight saving of 4 kg. Why are we all using 3-bladed Warp > > Drives ? The Katana, which is a similar but much heavier aircraft uses a > > 2-bladed CS Hoffmann on a Rotax 912. > > > > Any ideas ? > > > > Karl > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:43 PM PST US From: "GLENN CROWDER" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS? --> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" I flew my 930 lb Monowheel with EA81 power and 125 hp yesterday with a 195 lb passenger. I am 210. My home base is at 5090 ft. I have a fixed pitch 3 bladed prop pitched for cruise. Takeoff was a breeze on my 4700 ft runway, breaking ground in about 800 ft, staying in ground effect for another 1200 then climbing at about 750 fpm for the first thousand feet. Cruising about 4600 rpm gives about 145 mph. On part of the flight, we slowed to about 100 and were getting 2.0 gph on the fuel computer for about 30 minutes. My passenger felt the ailerons were very light and sensitive but the elevator was sensitive but heavier than the Mustang II he had just ridden in last week (probably due to the all flying stab on the Mono). The landing was sweet at the normal 70 mph approach speed with no bounce or tail wagging common on a lot of taildraggers. Very enjoyable! I did weld in some additional steel supports to the swingarm area. Back when I was first learning to fly the Mono, I botched some landings not getting the tail down far enough (easy to do now!) and got some very severe bouncing (almost hit the prop) before I decided to do a go around. I thouroughly inspected the swing arm area afterwards and could find nothing bent. That was 3 yrs ago and haven't had a landing with more than one extra bounce since. I recently received some wheel landing training in a brand new Citabria and felt the Citabria was quite a bit touchier on landing than the Monowheel. With the Mono, as soon as the tail touches, you just pin the tail with the stick and hold it, with the Citabria if you do that the tail wheel will start shimmying badly. Also with the Citab, you can occasionally get a wing to lift on one side after touchdown and have to roll it level again. This never happens with the Mono. Landing the Mono seems no harder than a C172, just a bit different! Just my $ .02. Glenn >From: Jeff B >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS? >Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:18:17 -0600 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff B > >Ron, > >I listed N55XS, a tri-gear, at 1450, gross. The plane weighs 925 lbs >and CG comes in at about 60". With the wife and I and a full load of >fuel, it is impossible to go beyond the aft CG and still remain within >the gross weight. We made a 900 mile cross country at, or very close to >gross, taking off from various fields, some of which were at 3500 ft, >without any problems. The Europa seems to be happy with this >configuration, at these altitudes. Handling, in the air was delightful... > >rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > > > Taking more notice of completed aircraft empty weights of XS Europas, > > there have been many to come in a lot heavier than 750 pounds. > > > > Flight testing on short wings I don't think exceeded 1370 pounds. > > > > I was wondering if those out there who flew at or over 1450 pounds could > > share weights, CG and how aeroplane handeled and general comments. > > > > Especial interested in what it may have taken to wipe out Monowheel > > undercarriage and at what weight. > > > > Also spin entry and recovery handeling, especial in thin air at more aft > > CGs. > > > > I learned (the hard way) from models, that a fair manured craft, can > > become a bear , in other words more easily enter a spin, and essential > > become unrecoverable if you make the air thin,or increase the weight. > > Sometimes a time honored CG is too aft for heavier weights, and >acceptable > > control throws for a lighter weight are unacceptable for heavier weight. > > > > Info on long wings at heavy weights also appreciated. > > > > Thx. > > Ron Parigoris > > > > Here in the US the builder can choose the gross weight. Not prudent to > > regularly fly a 1500 pound 912 XS out of a 1500 foot strip that has a >high > > density altitude. For an occasional long flight with a intercooled 914 > > with CS prop flying out @ sunrise from a wide mile long runway over > > reasonable hospitable terrain, near sea level at 60F sounds to be an > > acceptable practice? Problem is if you exceed gross weight listed in > > operating limitations, besides the potential for FAA to get on after >you, > > even from a plain vanilla ramp check, Insurance coverage may be void. If >a > > plane were ever to be sold, easy to go back into phase 1 and change >gross > > weight limit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers From: grroberts3@juno.com --> Europa-List message posted by: grroberts3@juno.com "The Aviation Consumer" magazine did an article on just that topic in August 2005. Bottom line: for aircraft under 250 HP, gains in performance were subjective and variable. In general, three blades gave better climb, less noise, less vibration, more ground clearance, and looked sexy. Two blades produced higher cruise speed on less fuel , were lighter, and were cheaper: but not always. I don't care to defend these conclusions, I'm merely summarizing the article. GRoberts A187 On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:13:23 +0000 "KARL HEINDL" writes: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" > > > Propeller Experts !! > > I wish to upgrade to a CS prop with full feather option, the main > reason > being the feathering capability. The obvious choice for many is the > > Airmaster AP332. Now the Woodcomp SR3000 has the same options, and I > believe > is a lot cheaper. In addition it has the option for a 2 or 3-bladed > > propeller. My question is this : > What are the pros and cons between 2 and 3 blades, apart from the > considerable weight saving of 4 kg. Why are we all using 3-bladed > Warp > Drives ? The Katana, which is a similar but much heavier aircraft > uses a > 2-bladed CS Hoffmann on a Rotax 912. > > Any ideas ? > > Karl > > > ======================================= > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:16 PM PST US From: "GLENN CROWDER" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers --> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" I gained a solid 20 mph by dumping my NSI CAP140 3 bladed electrically adjustable prop with the Warp Drive blades for a custom designed fixed pitch 3 blade on my 125 hp EA81 powered mono. Whenever I flew with the NSI, I would be constantly fiddling with with the pitch control. It was just adding too much workload to be fun. I really like the fixed pitch. It is far smoother than the NSI and since it is custom fitted to my engine climbs just as well. The WD blades were designed for a 100 mph max ultralight and have only an 18 degree twist on a 74" blade. All WD blades are cut down to length from the same 74" blanks. When you cut them down to 64" they have even less twist. A proper twist for a 150 mph plane is between 40 and 45 degrees. The WD blades are a good climb type blade but were never designed for higher speeds. I do have a slightly longer takeoff roll as I need some speed for the prop to start to bite but I fly off a 4700 ft runway so is not an issue for me. Glenn Golden, Colorado USA >From: grroberts3@juno.com >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers >Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:39:56 -0700 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: grroberts3@juno.com > >"The Aviation Consumer" magazine did an article on just that topic in >August 2005. Bottom line: for aircraft under 250 HP, gains in >performance were subjective and variable. In general, three blades gave >better climb, less noise, less vibration, more ground clearance, and >looked sexy. Two blades produced higher cruise speed on less fuel , were >lighter, and were cheaper: but not always. > >I don't care to defend these conclusions, I'm merely summarizing the >article. > >GRoberts >A187 > > >On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:13:23 +0000 "KARL HEINDL" >writes: > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" > > > > > > Propeller Experts !! > > > > I wish to upgrade to a CS prop with full feather option, the main > > reason > > being the feathering capability. The obvious choice for many is the > > > > Airmaster AP332. Now the Woodcomp SR3000 has the same options, and I > > believe > > is a lot cheaper. In addition it has the option for a 2 or 3-bladed > > > > propeller. My question is this : > > What are the pros and cons between 2 and 3 blades, apart from the > > considerable weight saving of 4 kg. Why are we all using 3-bladed > > Warp > > Drives ? The Katana, which is a similar but much heavier aircraft > > uses a > > 2-bladed CS Hoffmann on a Rotax 912. > > > > Any ideas ? > > > > Karl > > > > > > ======================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers From: Fred Klein --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein Hi Tony, ...I didn't mean to imply that Airmaster alters the blades they receive; rather, my understanding is that Warp Drive produces a "generic" blade (actually 2 blades, one tapered, on not tapered) of a given length from their moulds and shortens them if necessary for specific installations by whacking off the tip end of the blade; I presume that WD supplies Airmaster with blades to meet Airmaster's specified lengths. Consequently, the more of the tip which is removed, the less twist in what remains. Glenn C. mentions an 18 degree twist in the WD blade...if I recall correctly, I believe I've been told that the WD blades on a Europa have only a 13 degree twist due to their reduced length. (About a year ago I went over this w/ a number of folks including Airmaster; I can retrieve the thread if you're interested.) Though serviceable, Airmaster conceded that the WD blade was less than optimal for the Europa given the limitations on diameter. Cheers, Fred A194 On Monday, November 21, 2005, at 05:24 PM, Tony Krzyzewski wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" > > >>> A factor to consider w/ the Airmaster/Europa combination is the cut > down WD blade length which results in insufficient twist which in > turn... > > What cut down blade length? > > Airmaster don't alter the blade length from the standard warp drive > supplied by the factory, all they do to the standard blade is add a > fitting in the base to allow the airmaster hub to rotate the blade. > > Tony >