Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:26 AM - Re: Propellers (David Joyce)
2. 05:00 AM - Re: Re: Propellers (Michel Auvray)
3. 05:57 AM - Re: Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (Chris Beck)
4. 06:50 AM - Re: Preparing for first flight (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com)
5. 07:14 AM - Re: Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (GLENN CROWDER)
6. 08:13 AM - Re: Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (KARL HEINDL)
7. 08:20 AM - Propellers (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
8. 10:18 AM - He Said, She Said... (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle))
9. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: Propellers (David Joyce)
10. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (Chris Beck)
11. 10:59 AM - Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
12. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (Chris Beck)
13. 12:20 PM - Rotax 912 Hi compression Pistons (Thomas Scherer)
14. 12:34 PM - Re: Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (Steve Crimm)
15. 01:17 PM - Re: Propellers (Duncan McFadyean)
16. 01:19 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Hi compression Pistons (ivor.phillips)
17. 01:21 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Hi compression Pistons (Duncan McFadyean)
18. 01:25 PM - Re: Propellers (Duncan McFadyean)
19. 01:37 PM - Re: DOTH Tuesday/Wed? (R.C.Harrison)
20. 01:56 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Hi compression Pistons (Ronald J. Parigoris)
21. 02:10 PM - Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (JTHURSBY@tampabay.rr.com)
22. 02:11 PM - wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] (Rowland Carson)
23. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (GLENN CROWDER)
24. 03:00 PM - Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (Cliff Shaw)
25. 04:16 PM - Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] (Jim Brown)
26. 04:30 PM - Re: Preparing for first flight (Jim Brown)
27. 04:48 PM - Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (Paul McAllister)
28. 06:48 PM - Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
29. 07:23 PM - Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? (Steve Crimm)
30. 07:44 PM - Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] (Chris Beck)
31. 07:50 PM - Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] (Chris Beck)
32. 08:13 PM - Re: Converting to Monowheel (Peter and Chris Timm)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Karl, The SR3000 is a very recent Woodcomp output with first production
props coming out this year, so archives won't be much help directly. However
nearly all you find on their SR2000 will apply. Currently the blades are
identical, although Woodcomp are working on a higher twist version to
optimise performance for faster planes than the 100+ knots that the SR2000
was designed for (which doesn't stop my SR2000 managing 160 kts with my
914). The current differences between SR2000 and 3000 are a totally
redesigned hub which cycles much faster,( like 3 secs instead of 14), is
likely to be more durable and allows feathering or indeed reverse thrust if
you choose those options. The Europa Club contingent of 12 who visited the
factory were thoroughly impressed with the design and quality. Regards,
David Joyce
----- Original Message -----
From: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
>
>
> Sven and Fred,
>
> Thank you for your reply. I will try the archives but I think the SR3000
> with constant speed must be a very recent option. With the trigear
clearance
> should't be a problem if I were to choose the 1700mm, but I don't really
> know at this point. I know in theory there could be a little more noise,
but
> is that a problem ? Weight is important to me as my empty cg is already
> quite far forward.
> Actually, I find the cockpit noise quite loud with my headphones off, but
> who knows how much of that is wind, engine, or propeller noise. Another
> consideration is reduced drag when in glider mode.
> According to Bryan Allsop the 3-blade SR2000 is much smoother than the WD
he
> had previously.
> I have all winter to think about it.
>
> Karl
>
>
> >From: "Sven den Boer" <svendenboer@quicknet.nl>
> >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
> >To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers
> >Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:16:28 +0100
> >
> >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer"
> ><svendenboer@quicknet.nl>
> >
> >Karl
> >
> >SR 3000 seems good choice to me, will fit one myself early next year.
> >Beautifully crafted piece of prop I bought.
> >3 blades save noise and vibration and there is always the nice 2/3 blade
> >compare on required diameter.
> >With a monowheel you definately would like to have some ground clearance.
> >I suggest you also check the archives, loads of stuff on props...
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Sven den Boer
> >A168
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
> >To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Europa-List: Propellers
> >
> >
> > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > Propeller Experts !!
> > >
> > > I wish to upgrade to a CS prop with full feather option, the main
reason
> > > being the feathering capability. The obvious choice for many is the
> > > Airmaster AP332. Now the Woodcomp SR3000 has the same options, and I
> > > believe
> > > is a lot cheaper. In addition it has the option for a 2 or 3-bladed
> > > propeller. My question is this :
> > > What are the pros and cons between 2 and 3 blades, apart from the
> > > considerable weight saving of 4 kg. Why are we all using 3-bladed Warp
> > > Drives ? The Katana, which is a similar but much heavier aircraft uses
a
> > > 2-bladed CS Hoffmann on a Rotax 912.
> > >
> > > Any ideas ?
> > >
> > > Karl
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> "Fantastic service... saves a lot of time for me... I only have to go to
one page."
> http://www.doctors.net.uk/journalwatch
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
>
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michel Auvray" <mau11@free.fr>
Hello David,
Last year september 2004 I am in Woodcomp factory and I buy SR2000. The informations
comming from Jiri are:
The difference between SR2000 and SR3000 is the next:
SR2000 is made for Small aircraft and/or Ultralight. There is no "reverse" position.
The SR3000 is made for seaplane with reverse position. The blades are the same
mechanism same but setting is different.
bientt,
======= le 22/11/2005, 11:21:13 vous criviez: =======
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
>Karl, The SR3000 is a very recent Woodcomp output with first production
>props coming out this year, so archives won't be much help directly. However
>nearly all you find on their SR2000 will apply. Currently the blades are
>identical, although Woodcomp are working on a higher twist version to
>optimise performance for faster planes than the 100+ knots that the SR2000
>was designed for (which doesn't stop my SR2000 managing 160 kts with my
>914). The current differences between SR2000 and 3000 are a totally
>redesigned hub which cycles much faster,( like 3 secs instead of 14), is
>likely to be more durable and allows feathering or indeed reverse thrust if
>you choose those options. The Europa Club contingent of 12 who visited the
>factory were thoroughly impressed with the design and quality. Regards,
>David Joyce
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers
>
>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
>>
>>
>> Sven and Fred,
>>
>> Thank you for your reply. I will try the archives but I think the SR3000
>> with constant speed must be a very recent option. With the trigear
>clearance
>> should't be a problem if I were to choose the 1700mm, but I don't really
>> know at this point. I know in theory there could be a little more noise,
>but
>> is that a problem ? Weight is important to me as my empty cg is already
>> quite far forward.
>> Actually, I find the cockpit noise quite loud with my headphones off, but
>> who knows how much of that is wind, engine, or propeller noise. Another
>> consideration is reduced drag when in glider mode.
>> According to Bryan Allsop the 3-blade SR2000 is much smoother than the WD
>he
>> had previously.
>> I have all winter to think about it.
>>
>> Karl
>>
>>
>> >From: "Sven den Boer" <svendenboer@quicknet.nl>
>> >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> >To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers
>> >Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:16:28 +0100
>> >
>> >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer"
>> ><svendenboer@quicknet.nl>
>> >
>> >Karl
>> >
>> >SR 3000 seems good choice to me, will fit one myself early next year.
>> >Beautifully crafted piece of prop I bought.
>> >3 blades save noise and vibration and there is always the nice 2/3 blade
>> >compare on required diameter.
>> >With a monowheel you definately would like to have some ground clearance.
>> >I suggest you also check the archives, loads of stuff on props...
>> >
>> >Cheers
>> >
>> >Sven den Boer
>> >A168
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
>> >To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> >Subject: Europa-List: Propellers
>> >
>> >
>> > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Propeller Experts !!
>> > >
>> > > I wish to upgrade to a CS prop with full feather option, the main
>reason
>> > > being the feathering capability. The obvious choice for many is the
>> > > Airmaster AP332. Now the Woodcomp SR3000 has the same options, and I
>> > > believe
>> > > is a lot cheaper. In addition it has the option for a 2 or 3-bladed
>> > > propeller. My question is this :
>> > > What are the pros and cons between 2 and 3 blades, apart from the
>> > > considerable weight saving of 4 kg. Why are we all using 3-bladed Warp
>> > > Drives ? The Katana, which is a similar but much heavier aircraft uses
>a
>> > > 2-bladed CS Hoffmann on a Rotax 912.
>> > >
>> > > Any ideas ?
>> > >
>> > > Karl
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> "Fantastic service... saves a lot of time for me... I only have to go to
>one page."
>> http://www.doctors.net.uk/journalwatch
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>
= = = = = = = = = ========= = = = = = = = = =
Michel Auvray
mau11@free.fr
22/11/2005
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net>
From: GLENN CROWDER <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS?
I recently received some wheel landing training in a brand new Citabria
and felt the Citabria was quite a bit touchier on landing than the
Monowheel. With the Mono, as soon as the tail touches, you just pin the
tail with the stick and hold it, with the Citabria if you do that the tail
wheel will start shimmying badly. Also with the Citab, you can occasionally
get a wing to lift on one side after touchdown and have to roll it level
again. This never happens with the Mono. Landing the Mono
seems no harder than a C172, just a bit different! Just my $ .02.
Glenn
--->Glenn, if you were getting a tailwheel shimmy with that Citabria, it had either
a poorly setup or worn out tailwheel assembly. I recently finished up my
10 hours of dual in our 'new' '46 C-140 and am busy flying as much as possible
before the winter weather starts to close in here in the upper Midwest. I've
put probably 70 landings on the plane already with nothing so much as a wiggle
from the tailwheel, and some of those landings weren't real pretty. I've been
on grass the most, with a good bit of pavement work, also.
Indeed, now that I've unlearned most of my 'bad' habits from flying with the training
wheel out front, I find landing the 140 to be very easy. It's an amazingly
responsive plane and very forgiving. It will be interesting to transition
into our monowheel when she's ready to fly and see how they compare from a landing
standpoint.
Happy flying!
Chris
A159
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Preparing for first flight |
22/11/2005 09:49:02 AM,
Serialize complete at 22/11/2005 09:49:02 AM
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Svein,
For time in a Katana, you might want to check pricing in Canada, compared
to USA.
Currently about $105 Canadian per hour with fuel, $45 for the instructor
Dave A061
Do not archive
"Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
11/21/2005 03:41 PM
Please respond to europa-list
To: "Europa List" <europa-list@matronics.com>
cc:
Subject: Europa-List: Preparing for first flight
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen"
<sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
In anticipation of first flight this coming spring and the 50 hours of
verification program after that, I have the following question to the U.S.
participants on this forum:
- I am considering attending FCI's unusual attitude/upset recovery
training course conducted in Mesa, AZ. Do any of you know this company or
their 3 day/5 mission Emergency Maneuver Training course?
- Is there anywhere in the U.S. where I can get transition training in a
Europa, with a CFI? Have valid FAA PPL/medical.
- Will the Diamond Katana offer similar (to a certain extent) flying
characteristics as the Europa? This aircraft is operated by several
flying schools in the U.S., and therefore may be more readily available
for relevant practice than a Europa.
Regards,
Svein
A225 - XS Trigear - now in Norway
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
Hey Chris!
I didn't mean to impugn the Citab, it is a very fun plane. I wish the
Europa could do
wheel landings like the Citab. The main difference I experienced was that
with the
Citab, you're never quite sure when its done flying. With the Mono, as long
as you get
the tail wheel down first and pin it hard, the plane is done flying and will
roll out straight
just like a 172 (with a little help of course). With the all flying tail,
you can pin the
tailwheel so hard that it won't skid and this eliminates any tail wagging.
If you don't
pin the tail all the way, then your'e in for a thrill!
Glenn
>From: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS?
>Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:56:27 -0600 (CST)
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net>
>
>From: GLENN CROWDER <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
>Date: Mon Nov 21 20:06:41 CST 2005
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS?
>
>I recently received some wheel landing training in a brand new Citabria
>and felt the Citabria was quite a bit touchier on landing than the
>Monowheel. With the Mono, as soon as the tail touches, you just pin the
>tail with the stick and hold it, with the Citabria if you do that the tail
>wheel will start shimmying badly. Also with the Citab, you can
>occasionally
>get a wing to lift on one side after touchdown and have to roll it level
>again. This never happens with the Mono. Landing the Mono
>seems no harder than a C172, just a bit different! Just my $ .02.
>
> Glenn
>
>--->Glenn, if you were getting a tailwheel shimmy with that Citabria, it
>had either a poorly setup or worn out tailwheel assembly. I recently
>finished up my 10 hours of dual in our 'new' '46 C-140 and am busy flying
>as much as possible before the winter weather starts to close in here in
>the upper Midwest. I've put probably 70 landings on the plane already with
>nothing so much as a wiggle from the tailwheel, and some of those landings
>weren't real pretty. I've been on grass the most, with a good bit of
>pavement work, also.
>
>Indeed, now that I've unlearned most of my 'bad' habits from flying with
>the training wheel out front, I find landing the 140 to be very easy. It's
>an amazingly responsive plane and very forgiving. It will be interesting
>to transition into our monowheel when she's ready to fly and see how they
>compare from a landing standpoint.
>
>Happy flying!
>
>Chris
>A159
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
Glenn,
Sounds like landing the mono would be a piece of cake for any Navy pilot.
Karl
do not archive
>From: "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS?
>Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:13:28 -0700
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
>
>Hey Chris!
> I didn't mean to impugn the Citab, it is a very fun plane. I wish the
>Europa could do
>wheel landings like the Citab. The main difference I experienced was that
>with the
>Citab, you're never quite sure when its done flying. With the Mono, as
>long
>as you get
>the tail wheel down first and pin it hard, the plane is done flying and
>will
>roll out straight
>just like a 172 (with a little help of course). With the all flying tail,
>you can pin the
>tailwheel so hard that it won't skid and this eliminates any tail wagging.
>If you don't
>pin the tail all the way, then your'e in for a thrill!
>
> Glenn
>
> >From: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net>
> >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
> >To: europa-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS?
> >Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:56:27 -0600 (CST)
> >
> >--> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net>
> >
> >From: GLENN CROWDER <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
> >Date: Mon Nov 21 20:06:41 CST 2005
> >To: europa-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS?
> >
> >I recently received some wheel landing training in a brand new Citabria
> >and felt the Citabria was quite a bit touchier on landing than the
> >Monowheel. With the Mono, as soon as the tail touches, you just pin the
> >tail with the stick and hold it, with the Citabria if you do that the
>tail
> >wheel will start shimmying badly. Also with the Citab, you can
> >occasionally
> >get a wing to lift on one side after touchdown and have to roll it level
> >again. This never happens with the Mono. Landing the Mono
> >seems no harder than a C172, just a bit different! Just my $ .02.
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> >--->Glenn, if you were getting a tailwheel shimmy with that Citabria, it
> >had either a poorly setup or worn out tailwheel assembly. I recently
> >finished up my 10 hours of dual in our 'new' '46 C-140 and am busy flying
> >as much as possible before the winter weather starts to close in here in
> >the upper Midwest. I've put probably 70 landings on the plane already
>with
> >nothing so much as a wiggle from the tailwheel, and some of those
>landings
> >weren't real pretty. I've been on grass the most, with a good bit of
> >pavement work, also.
> >
> >Indeed, now that I've unlearned most of my 'bad' habits from flying with
> >the training wheel out front, I find landing the 140 to be very easy.
>It's
> >an amazingly responsive plane and very forgiving. It will be interesting
> >to transition into our monowheel when she's ready to fly and see how they
> >compare from a landing standpoint.
> >
> >Happy flying!
> >
> >Chris
> >A159
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Greetings all,
Here's what I'm going with in regard to a prop.
http://www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/news.htm
Sensenich tells me they are working with a vendor to develop an electrically
adjustable hub for this blade, but it's likely 6-8 months before it'll be
released. The good news is the manually adjustable blades will retrofit into the
new electric hub. I've heard this prop has been used on a Jabiru 3300 powered
Esqual just up the road from me in Nashville with very good results.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245 (Waiting for my prop so I can mount the spinner, cowls, paint them,
then go fly! Everything else is pretty much done.)
Message 8
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| Subject: | He Said, She Said... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Dear Listers,
I've been getting some great feedback from Listers lately along with
their List Contributions. I thought I share a few more of the nice
thoughts people have had regarding the what the Lists mean to them.
Please take a minute right now and make a Contribution to support these
Lists. Remember that its solely *your* generosity that keeps them
running and without your support they would cease to exist.
The Contribution web site is fast and easy:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics List Administrator
====================== What Listers Are Saying #3 ======================
This is a great deal for aviation info/entertainment.
Christopher R.
Truly a great source of help and information.
Eddie S.
I couldn't imagine building my RV-7A without the 'net
and your lists!
Sebastian T.
Great lists!
Corey C.
Where would I be without the list?
George R.
What a resource!
Clay K.
Great service.
Martin H.
[The List] has such a wealth of information.
David N.
A great resource for builders and flyers.
Gregg W.
I enjoy the Lists.
Gene S.
A great source of information.
Richard N.
This is a great service.
Ralph C.
Great service.
Richard N.
Great resource!
John T.
Very helpfull & we appreciate all your efforts.
Stan B.
Makes me realize how much I don't know that I don't know...
Martin H.
I am not a builder but enjoy the posts.
Doug P.
Great information.
James B.
Thanks to all who share their knowledge and ask the
questions I didn't know enough to ask myself. It will fly
some day.
James M.
Excellent source of information.
Tony C.
While I haven't learned enough to contribute to others very
often, I have learned enough to avoid some mistakes in
building my kit.
CL M.
AeroElectric list is the best!
Dennis J.
[The List] is invaluable.
Benjamin S.
I think of the Kolb List as the daily "Kolb Magazine" of
what's going on.
Bill T.
Great service.
John D.
Have very much appreciated the help, suggestions, and
knowledge of the listers over the course of my project.
Michael S.
A very useful service.
Colin R.
[The List] has saved me from mistakes already several times.
Ron L.
Love the list and hope to see it never change.
David N.
Between the archives, the folks that have already done it,
and the rest of us currently building - I think every tidbit
of knowledge is available to get/keep us in the air.
Ralph C.
====================== What Listers Are Saying #3 ======================
do not archive
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
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Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Michel, The hub mechanism is entirely different in the SR3000, completely
redesigned in fact, with differences in performance as in my previous
message. Regards, David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Auvray" <mau11@free.fr>
Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: Propellers
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Michel Auvray" <mau11@free.fr>
>
> Hello David,
> Last year september 2004 I am in Woodcomp factory and I buy SR2000. The
informations comming from Jiri are:
> The difference between SR2000 and SR3000 is the next:
> SR2000 is made for Small aircraft and/or Ultralight. There is no "reverse"
position.
>
> The SR3000 is made for seaplane with reverse position. The blades are the
same mechanism same but setting is different.
> bientt,
>
> ======= le 22/11/2005, 11:21:13 vous criviez: =======
>
> >--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce"
<davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
> >
> >Karl, The SR3000 is a very recent Woodcomp output with first production
> >props coming out this year, so archives won't be much help directly.
However
> >nearly all you find on their SR2000 will apply. Currently the blades are
> >identical, although Woodcomp are working on a higher twist version to
> >optimise performance for faster planes than the 100+ knots that the
SR2000
> >was designed for (which doesn't stop my SR2000 managing 160 kts with my
> >914). The current differences between SR2000 and 3000 are a totally
> >redesigned hub which cycles much faster,( like 3 secs instead of 14), is
> >likely to be more durable and allows feathering or indeed reverse thrust
if
> >you choose those options. The Europa Club contingent of 12 who visited
the
> >factory were thoroughly impressed with the design and quality. Regards,
> >David Joyce
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
> >To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers
> >
> >
> >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sven and Fred,
> >>
> >> Thank you for your reply. I will try the archives but I think the
SR3000
> >> with constant speed must be a very recent option. With the trigear
> >clearance
> >> should't be a problem if I were to choose the 1700mm, but I don't
really
> >> know at this point. I know in theory there could be a little more
noise,
> >but
> >> is that a problem ? Weight is important to me as my empty cg is already
> >> quite far forward.
> >> Actually, I find the cockpit noise quite loud with my headphones off,
but
> >> who knows how much of that is wind, engine, or propeller noise. Another
> >> consideration is reduced drag when in glider mode.
> >> According to Bryan Allsop the 3-blade SR2000 is much smoother than the
WD
> >he
> >> had previously.
> >> I have all winter to think about it.
> >>
> >> Karl
> >>
> >>
> >> >From: "Sven den Boer" <svendenboer@quicknet.nl>
> >> >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
> >> >To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> >> >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers
> >> >Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:16:28 +0100
> >> >
> >> >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer"
> >> ><svendenboer@quicknet.nl>
> >> >
> >> >Karl
> >> >
> >> >SR 3000 seems good choice to me, will fit one myself early next year.
> >> >Beautifully crafted piece of prop I bought.
> >> >3 blades save noise and vibration and there is always the nice 2/3
blade
> >> >compare on required diameter.
> >> >With a monowheel you definately would like to have some ground
clearance.
> >> >I suggest you also check the archives, loads of stuff on props...
> >> >
> >> >Cheers
> >> >
> >> >Sven den Boer
> >> >A168
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
> >> >To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> >> >Subject: Europa-List: Propellers
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Propeller Experts !!
> >> > >
> >> > > I wish to upgrade to a CS prop with full feather option, the main
> >reason
> >> > > being the feathering capability. The obvious choice for many is the
> >> > > Airmaster AP332. Now the Woodcomp SR3000 has the same options, and
I
> >> > > believe
> >> > > is a lot cheaper. In addition it has the option for a 2 or 3-bladed
> >> > > propeller. My question is this :
> >> > > What are the pros and cons between 2 and 3 blades, apart from the
> >> > > considerable weight saving of 4 kg. Why are we all using 3-bladed
Warp
> >> > > Drives ? The Katana, which is a similar but much heavier aircraft
uses
> >a
> >> > > 2-bladed CS Hoffmann on a Rotax 912.
> >> > >
> >> > > Any ideas ?
> >> > >
> >> > > Karl
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "Fantastic service... saves a lot of time for me... I only have to go
to
> >one page."
> >> http://www.doctors.net.uk/journalwatch
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> = = = = = = = = = ========= = = = = = = = = > Michel Auvray
> mau11@free.fr
> 22/11/2005
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> "Fantastic service... saves a lot of time for me... I only have to go to
one page."
> http://www.doctors.net.uk/journalwatch
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net>
From: GLENN CROWDER <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS?
Hey Chris!
I didn't mean to impugn the Citab, it is a very fun plane. I wish the
Europa could do
wheel landings like the Citab. The main difference I experienced was that
with the
Citab, you're never quite sure when its done flying. With the Mono, as long
as you get
the tail wheel down first and pin it hard, the plane is done flying and will
roll out straight
just like a 172 (with a little help of course). With the all flying tail,
you can pin the
tailwheel so hard that it won't skid and this eliminates any tail wagging.
If you don't
pin the tail all the way, then your'e in for a thrill!
---> I've always wondered why everyone says you can't wheel land a Europa... why???
Is it due to the angle of attack on the ground? Clearance? Seems to me
you should be able to just like any other tailwheel plane (although I indeed
realize the Europa ISN'T just any other tailwheel plane....)
3-pointers in the 140 are just stupid simple. Flaps or not, your choice, and come
down final at 60 mph. Flare, keep pulling the yoke back until it's in your
lap and she'll gracefully set down like a big pillow.
Wheel landings are a bit more challenging, as you come in faster and hold a level
angle as you stop the descent rate. When the mains kiss the ground, nail them
on with a bit of forward yoke. The challenge is that 1) it is a very 'wrong'
feeling from a trike gear training regimen, and 2) if you have too much rate
of descent or a bumpy runway, the spring gear will happily bounce you right
back into the air as you still have enough flying speed. That leads to a bouncing
episode that if not too bad, you can correct just by holding the yoke back
and turning it into a 3-pointer, or if it starts looking ugly, just go around
and try again. My toughest task to learn for wheel landings is nailing it
on with the forward yoke consistently. Done right, though, it's a pretty thing,
and I can hold the tail up all through the rollout almost to a walking speed.
Not to start a big debate or anything, but I find flying a tailwheel plane to be
much more satisfying and fun than the usual 152 or 172. I was all nervous and
uptight about learning to fly a tailwheel, but it really turned out to be more
a matter of unlearning all my trike habits rather than learning the tailwheel
part.
Chris
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good Day All,
So am I to believe that people looking to transit into a Europa are training
in a Citabria? Will this be acceptable to the FAA, CAA, and an insurance
company? Or is the Diamond more closer to the Europa? With no Europa to train in
what are people doing to meet any requirement?
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net>
Good Day All,
So am I to believe that people looking to transit into a Europa are training
in a Citabria? Will this be acceptable to the FAA, CAA, and an insurance
company? Or is the Diamond more closer to the Europa? With no Europa to train in
what are people doing to meet any requirement?
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
----> Mike, by stating 'conventional gear' do you mean the conventional Europa
monowheel? Or have you converted to a true 'conventional gear' with tailwheel?
The way I see it, if you are building a Europa with the little wheel on the wrong
end, i.e. tri-gear, you need nothing more than basic training, and a Katana
is the closest airplane to a Europa (except the Liberty) in size, weight, performance
and power.
If flying a Europa with the little wheel in the back, you definitely need to get
a proper tailwheel endorsement by an instructor. Citabrias are commonly used
for tailwheel instruction as they are both tailwheel and aerobatic, so can be
used for more than one purpose, and also they are good handling planes on the
ground. A Piper J-3 Cub would not be as good of a trainer as they are just
too darn easy to handle on the ground, but I did my first lesson in a Cub before
transitioning to our 140.
I can't imagine trying to perform test flights on a Europa not knowing how to fly
the plane itself very well let along trying to figure out how to handle a tailwheel
plane.
Chris
A159
Message 13
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 Hi compression Pistons |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Thomas Scherer" <thomas@scherer.com>
Greetings,
in my quest to convert N81EU for Altitude operations, I was wondering whether enyone
knows where those hi-compression pistons that were offered for the Rtx 912
some years ago (basically making it a Rtx 912S) are available ? Or somebody
has them lying around in his shack after getting a bad conscience and not installing
them ?
Also ... still looking for glider wings in any condition.
fly well !
<Thomas, N81EU>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm" <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
Mike,
My insurance company (AIG) required me to have 5 hours in type from a Europa
instructor. I used Lee Omerick out of Valrico, FL near Lakeland. Lee is a
retired Air Force and has done test flying etc on several Europa's. Contact
me off list and I will send you his contact information. Also Bob Burbe I
believe has worked with Lee a lot. I purchased my Europa completed and did
my training in this aircraft with Lee.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Beck
Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS?
--> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net>
Good Day All,
So am I to believe that people looking to transit into a Europa are training
in a Citabria? Will this be acceptable to the FAA, CAA, and an insurance
company? Or is the Diamond more closer to the Europa? With no Europa to
train in what are people doing to meet any requirement?
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
----> Mike, by stating 'conventional gear' do you mean the conventional
Europa monowheel? Or have you converted to a true 'conventional gear' with
tailwheel?
The way I see it, if you are building a Europa with the little wheel on the
wrong end, i.e. tri-gear, you need nothing more than basic training, and a
Katana is the closest airplane to a Europa (except the Liberty) in size,
weight, performance and power.
If flying a Europa with the little wheel in the back, you definitely need to
get a proper tailwheel endorsement by an instructor. Citabrias are commonly
used for tailwheel instruction as they are both tailwheel and aerobatic, so
can be used for more than one purpose, and also they are good handling
planes on the ground. A Piper J-3 Cub would not be as good of a trainer as
they are just too darn easy to handle on the ground, but I did my first
lesson in a Cub before transitioning to our 140.
I can't imagine trying to perform test flights on a Europa not knowing how
to fly the plane itself very well let along trying to figure out how to
handle a tailwheel plane.
Chris
A159
Message 15
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
John,
When you've got the new prop., perhaps you could let us know what the pitch
distribution (twist) is in the blade. I'd ask Sensenich, but I fully expect
they would not tell me or provide any performance curves.
Construction and planform are nice; possibly lighter than the WD too.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: <TELEDYNMCS@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Propellers
> --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>
> Greetings all,
>
> Here's what I'm going with in regard to a prop.
>
> http://www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/news.htm
>
> Sensenich tells me they are working with a vendor to develop an
> electrically
> adjustable hub for this blade, but it's likely 6-8 months before it'll be
> released. The good news is the manually adjustable blades will retrofit
> into the
> new electric hub. I've heard this prop has been used on a Jabiru 3300
> powered
> Esqual just up the road from me in Nashville with very good results.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245 (Waiting for my prop so I can mount the spinner, cowls, paint them,
> then go fly! Everything else is pretty much done.)
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Hi compression Pistons |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
I think this is what you where looking for Thomas
http://www.craftworks.biz/pistonsite/6318.htm
Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 912 Hi compression Pistons
Ivor Phillips
XS486
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Hi compression Pistons |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
See:
http://www.rotaxking.com/wst_page9.php
for one version; not sure if hits is the version that was offered a few
years back.
I can't see the benefit of the above forged alternative as piston strength
is not an issue with the 912 and the standard cast pistons likely have a
much higher silicon content, which would make them far more seize-resistant.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Scherer" <thomas@scherer.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 912 Hi compression Pistons
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Thomas Scherer" <thomas@scherer.com>
>
> Greetings,
>
> in my quest to convert N81EU for Altitude operations, I was wondering
> whether enyone knows where those hi-compression pistons that were offered
> for the Rtx 912 some years ago (basically making it a Rtx 912S) are
> available ? Or somebody has them lying around in his shack after getting a
> bad conscience and not installing them ?
>
> Also ... still looking for glider wings in any condition.
>
> fly well !
>
> <Thomas, N81EU>
>
>
>
Message 18
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Yes, but your Subaru engine has such a large surfeit of power that it can
get away with such high amounts of twist whilst retaining acceptable levels
of climb (due to the excess of power). Try that on a 912 and it may all end
in tears!
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
>
> I gained a solid 20 mph by dumping my NSI CAP140 3 bladed electrically
> adjustable prop
> with the Warp Drive blades for a custom designed fixed pitch 3 blade on my
> 125 hp EA81 powered mono.
> Whenever I flew with the NSI, I would be constantly fiddling with with
> the
> pitch control.
> It was just adding too much workload to be fun. I really like the fixed
> pitch. It is far
> smoother than the NSI and since it is custom fitted to my engine climbs
> just
> as well.
> The WD blades were designed for a 100 mph max ultralight and have only an
> 18 degree
> twist on a 74" blade. All WD blades are cut down to length from the same
> 74" blanks. When you cut them down to 64" they have even less twist. A
> proper twist for a 150 mph plane is between 40 and 45 degrees. The WD
> blades are a good climb type blade but were never designed for higher
> speeds.
> I do have a slightly longer takeoff roll as I need some speed for the
> prop
> to start to bite but
> I fly off a 4700 ft runway so is not an issue for me.
>
> Glenn
> Golden, Colorado
> USA
>
>
>>From: grroberts3@juno.com
>>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Propellers
>>Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:39:56 -0700
>>
>>--> Europa-List message posted by: grroberts3@juno.com
>>
>>"The Aviation Consumer" magazine did an article on just that topic in
>>August 2005. Bottom line: for aircraft under 250 HP, gains in
>>performance were subjective and variable. In general, three blades gave
>>better climb, less noise, less vibration, more ground clearance, and
>>looked sexy. Two blades produced higher cruise speed on less fuel , were
>>lighter, and were cheaper: but not always.
>>
>>I don't care to defend these conclusions, I'm merely summarizing the
>>article.
>>
>>GRoberts
>>A187
>>
>>
>>On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:13:23 +0000 "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
>>writes:
>> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
>> >
>> >
>> > Propeller Experts !!
>> >
>> > I wish to upgrade to a CS prop with full feather option, the main
>> > reason
>> > being the feathering capability. The obvious choice for many is the
>> >
>> > Airmaster AP332. Now the Woodcomp SR3000 has the same options, and I
>> > believe
>> > is a lot cheaper. In addition it has the option for a 2 or 3-bladed
>> >
>> > propeller. My question is this :
>> > What are the pros and cons between 2 and 3 blades, apart from the
>> > considerable weight saving of 4 kg. Why are we all using 3-bladed
>> > Warp
>> > Drives ? The Katana, which is a similar but much heavier aircraft
>> > uses a
>> > 2-bladed CS Hoffmann on a Rotax 912.
>> >
>> > Any ideas ?
>> >
>> > Karl
>> >
>> >
>> > =======================================
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | DOTH Tuesday/Wed? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! David and Bryan....others.
I would have enjoyed a trip to the original DOTH strip tomorrow but alas
I am laid low with a chest infection again and I must give the
antibiotics a chance this time !
Have a good day. Fly Safe.
Best regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce
Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday/Wed?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce"
<davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Bryan, I am up for that if the fog (which is being a bit of a problem
hereabouts at present) has cleared. Regards, David, G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Allsop" <bryan@blackballclub.com>
Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday/Wed?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop"
<bryan@blackballclub.com>
>
> The listing has not been accepting my mail recently, and I have not
been
able to respond to DOTHs. Hopefully this has been rectified.
>
> Anyone up for a doth to Peterborough (Conington) EGSF, Tues or Wed?
>
> Cheers. Bryan Allsop
>
>
> "Fantastic service... saves a lot of time for me... I only have to go
to
one page."
> http://www.doctors.net.uk/journalwatch
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Hi compression Pistons |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello Thomas
"I was wondering whether anyone knows where those hi-compression pistons that were
offered for the Rtx 912 some years ago"
I saw them for sale at E-Bay from these guys:
http://www.rotaxking.com/
The 912S is not only higher compression but a larger displacement (Larger bore).
I also saw a Bulletin from Rotax to not use any aftermarket pistons, I think specific
mentioned was higher compression for 912s.
For better altitude performance on a 912, besides variable pitch prop, installing
a kit to lean mixture with 2 EGTs and a Split second O2 Monitor would be my
choice as compared to boring and raising compression:
http://greenskyadventures.com/
Keep in mind with manual control if you lean at altitude in cruise if you descend
and throttle back without richening, you will be running lean and could get
the engine to quit. The Split second will help out with that giving you a lean
picture the second you throttle back.
Of course adding a turbo makes the most sense, for the most "Cents".
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: JTHURSBY@tampabay.rr.com
I have flown a 914 powered monowheel at 1,525.00 LBS. Takeoff at
Montrose Colorado was over 8,500 density. I used about a thousand
feet to get airborne and it was climbing around 700 FPM. If you are
mindfull of the C of G it will handle it fine. Forward loading with a
trike can be a problem as can aft with either configuration. Flying
to and from airshows the planes were ALWAYS heavy.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
Subject: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> Taking more notice of completed aircraft empty weights of Europa
> XS, there
> have been many to come in a lot heavier than 750 pounds.
>
> Flight testing on short wings I don't think exceeded 1370 pounds.
>
> I was wondering if those out there who flew at or over 1450 pounds
> couldshare weights, CG and how aeroplane handeled and general
> comments.
> Especial interested in what it may have taken to wipe out Monowheel
> undercarriage and at what weight.
>
> Also spin entry and recovery handeling, especial in thin air at
> more aft
> CGs.
>
> I learned (the hard way) from models, that a fair manored craft, can
> become a bear , in other words more easily enter a spin, and
essential
> become unrecoverable if you make the air thin,or increase the weight.
> Sometimes a time honored CG is too aft for heavier weights, and
> acceptablecontrol throws for a lighter weight are unacceptable for
> heavy.
> Info on long wings at heavy weights also appreciated.
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
> Here in the US the builder can choose the gross weight. Not
> prudent to
> regularly fly a 1500 pound 912 XS out of a 1500 foot strip that
> has a high
> density altitude. For an occasional long flight with a intercooled
914
> with CS prop flying out @ sunrise from a wide mile long runway over
> reasonable hospitable terrain, near sea level at 60F sounds to be an
> acceptable practice? Problem is if you exceed gross weight listed in
> operating limitations, besides the potential for FAA to get on
> after you,
> even from a plain vanella ramp check, Insurance coverage may be
> void. If a
> plane were ever to be sold, easy to go back into phase 1 and
> change gross
> weight limit.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 2005-11-22 12:45 -0600 Chris Beck wrote:
>I've always wondered why everyone says you can't wheel land a Europa... why???
Chris - some have tried, and many have failed!
Consider the situation: you are rolling along on that one wheel just
after touchdown and slowing down, to the speed where the rudder
becomes ineffective. At this point, you are now in contact with the
ground through one point only, and have lost directional control; you
are no longer the pilot but have become a passenger on the way to a
groundloop or worse.
A similar possibility arises at takeoff. As the elevator is more
powerful than the rudder, you can lift the tail and find yourself
balancing on the head of a pin without directional control; however,
as you should be accelerating smartly here, the rudder may start to
bite before disaster overtakes you.
I must say that I speak as an observer at this stage - I have never
landed a Europa myself yet, but I have seen the sort of mess other
folk have made because they neglected to keep the tailwheel in good
contact with the ground. The old tailwheel habit of getting the tail
up, or of doing wheeler landings, will not serve you well in a
monowheel Europa.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson PFA #16532 <http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/>
| 750 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
One of the most helpful things one can do to transition to the mono in my
opinion is just go out and rent a garden variety POC 172 spam can and
practice soft field landings and takeoffs. The
soft field landing technique is basically identical, just fly into ground
effect and keep pulling
back the yoke until the mains touch, then hold the nosewheel off until you
decide to let it down.
Try to get the timing down so the mains touch just when you achieve full
back yoke.
The runway should start to disappear for a moment or two before touching the
mains.
If the nose wheel touches prematurely, you flunked and possible bounce or
ground loop. Its OK
to grind a little flat spot on the tail tie down! Nobody will notice!
Soft field takeoffs are very similiar too. Use 15 deg flaps and start the
takeoff run with
full back yoke. When you break ground, quickly go forward on the yoke (very
little on the mono)
to avoid a stall and go into ground effect. As you gain speed, retract the
flaps and fly away. This
technique works exactly the same on the mono and works well for windy
crosswind
conditions. For a normal takeoff in light wind conditions, you would
normally gain about 35 kts groundspeed and then go forward on the stick just
slightly to raise the tail, at which point
the ailerons become effective and you get the sensation of balancing on a
beach ball for
a few moments until the plane rotates. This is the only real difference as
far as I can
tell after several hundred landings and takeoffs with the mono. Of course,
you would
still need some actual taildragger time but doing the above exercise could
shorten your
transition time dramatically! Your mileage may vary however!
Glenn
>From: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS?
>Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:46:07 -0600 (CST)
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net>
>
>Good Day All,
>
>So am I to believe that people looking to transit into a Europa are
>training
>in a Citabria? Will this be acceptable to the FAA, CAA, and an insurance
>company? Or is the Diamond more closer to the Europa? With no Europa to
>train in
>what are people doing to meet any requirement?
>
>Mike Duane A207
>Redding, California
>XS Conventional Gear
>
>----> Mike, by stating 'conventional gear' do you mean the conventional
>Europa monowheel? Or have you converted to a true 'conventional gear' with
>tailwheel?
>
>The way I see it, if you are building a Europa with the little wheel on the
>wrong end, i.e. tri-gear, you need nothing more than basic training, and a
>Katana is the closest airplane to a Europa (except the Liberty) in size,
>weight, performance and power.
>
>If flying a Europa with the little wheel in the back, you definitely need
>to get a proper tailwheel endorsement by an instructor. Citabrias are
>commonly used for tailwheel instruction as they are both tailwheel and
>aerobatic, so can be used for more than one purpose, and also they are good
>handling planes on the ground. A Piper J-3 Cub would not be as good of a
>trainer as they are just too darn easy to handle on the ground, but I did
>my first lesson in a Cub before transitioning to our 140.
>
>I can't imagine trying to perform test flights on a Europa not knowing how
>to fly the plane itself very well let along trying to figure out how to
>handle a tailwheel plane.
>
>Chris
>A159
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
All
This past summer, Betty and I came home from Oshkosh with lots of extra load (120
lb over). The plane flew very normally and had no trouble climbing and flying
to 10000 ft. In fact I had to slow down to allow the other Europa to keep
up with me. He was over heating in the clime-out. ( Jerry could out clime me,
but not on a long clime)
I do see a difference is performance when lightly loaded. It is rather fun to fly
by myself and zip around like a bee.
On the Mono ground handling/landing: I would not agree with those who might thing
the rudder on the Europa is not "powerful". I have found that the rudder
will easily steer me on the runway in my tri-gear All the way to the turn-off
(remember there are no cables to my little wheel) In fact when taxing at 2800
RPM and no tail wind, I can steer with the rudder to keep it on the line.
Just my thoughts.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown <acrojim@cfl.rr.com>
I would also suggest, to those of you who want to "TRY" to wheel land a mono
wheel, you need to do one thing first. With the engine off, have a friend or
helper raise the tail to normal flight attitude, then take a look at how close
the
prop is to the ground or pavement. One bounce on landing, and you may be buying
new prop blades.
The center of gravity is behind the mono wheel, which will make the tail drop
down, as soon as the wheel touches the runway, if you counter with some forward
stick, re-read the above paragraph.
I'm a high time Pitts driver, who loves wheel landings, but NEVER in our mono
wheel.
Jim Brown
N398JB
Rowland Carson wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
>
> At 2005-11-22 12:45 -0600 Chris Beck wrote:
>
> >I've always wondered why everyone says you can't wheel land a Europa... why???
>
> Chris - some have tried, and many have failed!
>
> Consider the situation: you are rolling along on that one wheel just
> after touchdown and slowing down, to the speed where the rudder
> becomes ineffective. At this point, you are now in contact with the
> ground through one point only, and have lost directional control; you
> are no longer the pilot but have become a passenger on the way to a
> groundloop or worse.
>
> A similar possibility arises at takeoff. As the elevator is more
> powerful than the rudder, you can lift the tail and find yourself
> balancing on the head of a pin without directional control; however,
> as you should be accelerating smartly here, the rudder may start to
> bite before disaster overtakes you.
>
> I must say that I speak as an observer at this stage - I have never
> landed a Europa myself yet, but I have seen the sort of mess other
> folk have made because they neglected to keep the tailwheel in good
> contact with the ground. The old tailwheel habit of getting the tail
> up, or of doing wheeler landings, will not serve you well in a
> monowheel Europa.
>
> regards
>
> Rowland
> --
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Preparing for first flight |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown <acrojim@cfl.rr.com>
Svein;
There is a company called Flightcrafters just a few miles out of Tampa Florida
USA. They are a builders assist center, and they have pilots available for checkouts
in the Europas.
The phone is 813-655-6411 talk to Russell, or Bob.
I thank their web site is Flightcrafters.com
Jim Brown
Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
>
> In anticipation of first flight this coming spring and the 50 hours of verification
program after that, I have the following question to the U.S. participants
on this forum:
>
> - I am considering attending FCI's unusual attitude/upset recovery training course
conducted in Mesa, AZ. Do any of you know this company or their 3 day/5
mission Emergency Maneuver Training course?
>
> - Is there anywhere in the U.S. where I can get transition training in a Europa,
with a CFI? Have valid FAA PPL/medical.
>
> - Will the Diamond Katana offer similar (to a certain extent) flying characteristics
as the Europa? This aircraft is operated by several flying schools in
the U.S., and therefore may be more readily available for relevant practice than
a Europa.
>
> Regards,
> Svein
> A225 - XS Trigear - now in Norway
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Mike,
I logged about 10 hours in a Citabria as part of my transition training for
my Mono wheel and it worked out fine for me.
Paul
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Flying a heavy Europa XS? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
All,
I have about 25 hours in a Citabria and am already signed off for my
tailwheel. Has anyone needed to do anything else for their "conventional gear"
(two
mains and a tailwheel Berube style) Europa in order to meet any requirements for
FAA, CSA, or insurance company? Being in "very" northern California, I am not
around any other Europa's that do transition training. Bob Berube has been a
very big assistance with my conventional gear modification.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
"Berube" Conventional Gear
Message 29
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| Subject: | Flying a heavy Europa XS? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm" <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
I would say a tail wheel endorsement is a tail wheel endorsement whether it
is a Cessna 140 or a Europa with conventional gear it is a tail wheel
aircraft. I would double check and push the point with the insurance
company it's gear configuration so they don't require anything but a tail
wheel endorsement which you have. Just my thoughts
Steve Crimm
A058
N42AH
Monowheel - Motor Glider
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DuaneFamly@aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flying a heavy Europa XS?
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
All,
I have about 25 hours in a Citabria and am already signed off for my
tailwheel. Has anyone needed to do anything else for their "conventional
gear" (two mains and a tailwheel Berube style) Europa in order to meet any
requirements for FAA, CSA, or insurance company? Being in "very" northern
California, I am not around any other Europa's that do transition training.
Bob Berube has been a very big assistance with my conventional gear
modification.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
"Berube" Conventional Gear
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net>
Rowland Carson wrote:
>
>Chris - some have tried, and many have failed!
>
>Consider the situation: you are rolling along on that one wheel just
>after touchdown and slowing down, to the speed where the rudder
>becomes ineffective.
>
Good point. I notice the size of the rudder on the Europa compared to
our 140. The 140 rudder is really quite huge! In addition, the 140
won't raise the tail on takeoff until 20 kts. or so, and will hold it up
a bit slower on landing, but never even hints of loosing rudder
effectiveness. If anything, it's a bit TOO sensitive to the rudder, and
I end up skidding all over if I don't pay attention with the
coordination while flying.
Is that in fact a problem with ground handling - loss of rudder
effectiveness - in the Monowheel? That could make for some interesting
moments with crosswinds....
Chris
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net>
Jim Brown wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown <acrojim@cfl.rr.com>
>
>I would also suggest, to those of you who want to "TRY" to wheel land a mono
>wheel, you need to do one thing first. With the engine off, have a friend or
>helper raise the tail to normal flight attitude, then take a look at how close
the
>prop is to the ground or pavement. One bounce on landing, and you may be buying
>new prop blades.
>
>The center of gravity is behind the mono wheel, which will make the tail drop
>down, as soon as the wheel touches the runway, if you counter with some forward
>stick, re-read the above paragraph.
>
>
>
Jim, what sort of clearance are we talking about?? 2"? 6"? I've got a
mile on the 140. I'd have to be looking straight at the dirt to get the
prop grounded.
Regarding the C of G, it's the same issue on any taildragger. It's
behind the mains, which causes the tail to drop when landing due to the
inertia. Trick is to zero out the rate of descent just as the mains
touch, then nail it with that bit of forward stick (as I'm sure you know
very well from the Pitts). Again, is it strictly a prop clearance issue
that prevents wheelies in the monowheel? Has this been beaten to death
in the past where I can look it up in the archives?
I'm just very curious about the mechanics of landing a monowheel. I've
flown in a few different ones (a Classic and an XS). Now that I'm
flying a tailwheel plan, I understand a lot more of what's going on.
Chris
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Converting to Monowheel |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Peter and Chris Timm <cptimm@telus.net>
As a former Citabria pilot with several years of glider towing (lots of
take-offs and landings), I still found my first test flight of my Classic
Mono to be different in the landing phase. Speed control on final and a
perfectly executed flare are essential. Not only does the rudder lose it's
effectiveness at this time, but the ailerons do likewise and the outriggers
are only in contact with the ground when the tail is down. You must nail the
tailwheel as soon as possible, especially in a crosswind. A few circuits in
a monowheel would make all the difference. Take-off in a taildragger always
means: stick forward, to get the tail up. Never, never check stick forward
in the monowheel Europa during landing and very little at take-off.
On another subject I find the load carrying ability of our little wonder
quite amazing, even though, as Cliff suggests, it is most fun to fly solo
and lightly loaded.
We are off to Australia this Sunday for a couple of months; Cairns,
Brisbane, Sydney, Albury, Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth, and some places in
between. Would like to meet with Down Under Europa builders and pilots for a
chat and look-see if possible.
Let me know off list if interested. cptimm@telus.net
Peter Timm, #110
Pemberton, British Columbia
>
on 05/11/21 6:06 PM, GLENN CROWDER at gcrowder2@hotmail.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
>
> I flew my 930 lb Monowheel with EA81 power and 125 hp yesterday with a 195
> lb passenger. I am 210. My home base is at 5090 ft. I have a fixed pitch
> 3 bladed prop pitched for cruise. Takeoff was a breeze on my 4700 ft
> runway, breaking ground in about 800 ft, staying in ground effect for
> another 1200 then climbing at about 750 fpm for the first thousand feet.
> Cruising about 4600 rpm
> gives about 145 mph. On part of the flight, we slowed to about 100 and were
> getting 2.0 gph
> on the fuel computer for about 30 minutes. My passenger felt the ailerons
> were very light and
> sensitive but the elevator was sensitive but heavier than the Mustang II he
> had just ridden in last week (probably due to the all flying stab on the
> Mono). The landing was sweet at the normal 70 mph approach speed with no
> bounce or tail wagging common on a lot of taildraggers. Very enjoyable! I
> did weld in some additional steel supports to the swingarm area. Back when
> I was first learning to fly the Mono, I botched some landings not getting
> the tail down far enough (easy to do now!) and got some very severe bouncing
> (almost hit the prop) before I decided to do a go around. I thouroughly
> inspected the swing arm area afterwards and could find nothing bent. That
> was 3 yrs ago and haven't had a landing with more than one extra bounce
> since.
> I recently received some wheel landing training in a brand new Citabria
> and felt the Citabria was quite a bit touchier on landing than the
> Monowheel. With the Mono, as soon as the tail touches, you just pin the
> tail with the stick and hold it, with the Citabria if you do that the tail
> wheel will start shimmying badly. Also with the Citab, you can occasionally
> get a wing to lift on one side after touchdown and have to roll it level
> again. This never happens with the Mono. Landing the Mono
> seems no harder than a C172, just a bit different! Just my $ .02.
>
> Glenn
>
>> From: Jeff B <topglock@cox.net>
>> Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
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