---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/23/05: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:31 AM - Re: Rotax 912 Hi compression Pistons (Nigel Graham) 2. 02:34 AM - intercom (Paul Stewart) 3. 02:43 AM - intercom (Paul Stewart) 4. 02:52 AM - Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] (R.C.Harrison) 5. 04:58 AM - Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] (Jim Brown) 6. 05:25 AM - Re: Propellers. (Mike Parkin) 7. 05:44 AM - Re: intercom (Paul McAllister) 8. 06:43 AM - Tailwheel antics..... (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 9. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: door push rods (Raimo Toivio) 10. 07:29 AM - Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] (Fergus Kyle) 11. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] (Chris Beck) 12. 10:16 AM - Preparing for the first flight (Erich Trombley) 13. 11:05 AM - Re: DOTH Tuesday/Wed? (Bryan Allsop) 14. 11:49 AM - Spark Plugs and Oil Filters for the 912ULS (jim) 15. 12:02 PM - Preparing for first flight (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 16. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] () 17. 12:47 PM - Re: Spark Plugs and Oil Filters for the 912ULS (Tim Ward) 18. 01:51 PM - Re: Spark Plugs and Oil Filters for the 912ULS (BEBERRY@aol.com) 19. 02:47 PM - Plenum chamber (Gavin & Anne) 20. 03:38 PM - Current sales & production (Fred Klein) 21. 03:40 PM - Re: Tailwheel antics..... (Paul McAllister) 22. 05:05 PM - Re: Current sales & production (Paul McAllister) 23. 06:00 PM - What We Are Thankful For... (Matt Dralle) 24. 06:22 PM - Re: Current sales & production (Cliff Shaw) 25. 06:54 PM - Re: Current sales & production (Fred Klein) 26. 07:40 PM - Re: Current sales & production (Cliff Shaw) 27. 08:38 PM - Re: Current sales & production (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:53 AM PST US From: "Nigel Graham" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 912 Hi compression Pistons --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" Hi Thomas, I believe that Kim Prout used a set of these 912 Xtra pistons on his first Europa with great success. It might be worth contacting him for confirmation/sage advice? Nigel ----- Original Message ----- From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax 912 Hi compression Pistons --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" I think this is what you where looking for Thomas http://www.craftworks.biz/pistonsite/6318.htm Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 912 Hi compression Pistons Ivor Phillips XS486 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:22 AM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Europa-List: intercom --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart Does anyone have experience of either the XCOM or Microair intercoms - good or bad ? regards Paul G-GIDY ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:37 AM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Europa-List: intercom --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart I've just realised the 'microair' intercom is infact made by ps engineering (the PM501) Paul ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:54 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! All Well said Rowland, even the most practiced and previously competent guys have had their moments. The big variable is the wind direction. In to wind directly down the runway can be a delight but any cross wind from either side and particularly from the prop.wash side is in need of instinctive reactions when transitioning from a crab approach to a dead ahead touch down. If you haven't done it before there's an awful lot to pull together simultaneously. There's plenty for my experience (Only on Europa 600 hours)even with the trike and differential braking so I intend to stay that way thanks. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson At 2005-11-22 12:45 -0600 Chris Beck wrote: >I've always wondered why everyone says you can't wheel land a Europa... why??? Chris - some have tried, and many have failed! Consider the situation: you are rolling along on that one wheel just after touchdown and slowing down, to the speed where the rudder becomes ineffective. At this point, you are now in contact with the ground through one point only, and have lost directional control; you are no longer the pilot but have become a passenger on the way to a groundloop or worse. A similar possibility arises at takeoff. As the elevator is more powerful than the rudder, you can lift the tail and find yourself balancing on the head of a pin without directional control; however, as you should be accelerating smartly here, the rudder may start to bite before disaster overtakes you. I must say that I speak as an observer at this stage - I have never landed a Europa myself yet, but I have seen the sort of mess other folk have made because they neglected to keep the tailwheel in good contact with the ground. The old tailwheel habit of getting the tail up, or of doing wheeler landings, will not serve you well in a monowheel Europa. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson PFA #16532 | 750 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:23 AM PST US From: Jim Brown Subject: Re: Europa-List: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] --> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown Chris My son has the Europa for about a week. Once its back in the hanger I will measure clearance and advise the forum. Jim Chris Beck wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck > > Jim Brown wrote: > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown > > > >I would also suggest, to those of you who want to "TRY" to wheel land a mono > >wheel, you need to do one thing first. With the engine off, have a friend or > >helper raise the tail to normal flight attitude, then take a look at how close the > >prop is to the ground or pavement. One bounce on landing, and you may be buying > >new prop blades. > > > >The center of gravity is behind the mono wheel, which will make the tail drop > >down, as soon as the wheel touches the runway, if you counter with some forward > >stick, re-read the above paragraph. > > > > > > > Jim, what sort of clearance are we talking about?? 2"? 6"? I've got a > mile on the 140. I'd have to be looking straight at the dirt to get the > prop grounded. > > Regarding the C of G, it's the same issue on any taildragger. It's > behind the mains, which causes the tail to drop when landing due to the > inertia. Trick is to zero out the rate of descent just as the mains > touch, then nail it with that bit of forward stick (as I'm sure you know > very well from the Pitts). Again, is it strictly a prop clearance issue > that prevents wheelies in the monowheel? Has this been beaten to death > in the past where I can look it up in the archives? > > I'm just very curious about the mechanics of landing a monowheel. I've > flown in a few different ones (a Classic and an XS). Now that I'm > flying a tailwheel plan, I understand a lot more of what's going on. > > Chris > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:58 AM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Europa-List: Re: Propellers. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" It seems to me that there is a lot of 'hearsay' being used about the various pro's and con's of the available propellers for the Europa. Whether this twist or that twist is right for cruise seems somewhat esoteric to me. The choice of a prop is, I believe, a little like the choice of engine - very subjective and is influenced by how much cash one has and what the individual 'likes the look of'. Most of us are very proud of our aircraft and tend to defend our choice of this item and that item. The bottom line is that no one could live on the difference between the propeller installations. I have only seen a few of the different installations and as such am not an expert. David Joyce's woodcomp looks particularly nice and David is obviously very pleased with it. My own Airmaster is an early model and is not without warts. However, there is not a lot wrong with an installation that gives: a: 130kt (IAS) cruise at 18lts/hr. b: Take Off distance of less that 300m on grass with nil wind. c: An aircraft that can reach Vne (165 kIAS) in straight and level flight at 5000ft. d: A climb rate in excess of 1200 fpm. All these figures are typical with a weight on the heavy side of average (it must be my streamlined figure). GJULZ is a monowheel XS fuselage with classic wings, Rotax 914 and Airmaster 308 constant speed prog. On the point of prop strikes during take-of or landing. I am not very experienced on my monowheel < 250 hours. Having had the ground loop experience, my recollection of the incident was that the tail high/wheelbarrow attitude was particularly excessive before the prop blade struck the tarmac - not an attitude one would get in under normal circumstances. The advice I have read about holding the tail down until lift-off followed by a check forward of the stick, does not fit with my experience. For what it is worth, I find that on take-off the following works best for me. Hold the stick hard back to enhance the tailwheel steering, I find that on take off that the rudder is quickly effective because of the propwash. As the IAS rises through 40 KIAS the ailerons are effective and relaxing the back pressure on the stick allows the tail to rise. As the aircraft accellerates I find it is necessary to apply a gentle but increasing forward pressure to prevent the aircraft trying to fly before it really has the speed (this is particularly important on rough ground as a good bump can launch you airborne before the aircraft is really ready to fly). At about 50 knots or so, just releasing the forward pressure with perhaps a slight pull will fly the aircraft gracefully into the air. When you get this right (it is a red letter day - put it in the diary), the Europa seems to transfer from ground to air without any fuss at all - almost like levitation - that is very satisfying. Once airborne, accellerate to an initial climb speed of 65-70 knots - wheel and flaps gently up/in and the pocket rocket is away. On landing, it really is time to wake up and take notice!! I aim to flair just off the ground and keep the stick coming back, as the speed decays, the stall warner sounds shortly followed by the tailwheel touching just before the mainwheel. All that is left is to keep the aircraft perfectly straight ( as well as you are able) and bring the speed under control. Avoid hard breaking, particularly if the aircraft is not perfectly straight and, once on the ground always keep the stick fully back until at walking pace. I have also found that an approach speed of 60-65 KIAS works in normal conditions with perhaps a 'trickle more' power at heavy gross weights. regards, Mike ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:39 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: intercom --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Paul, I have an XCOM and it works fine. I did have an intermittent problem early on and the support was excellent. The guy air mailed me another one and gave me a return envelope for the old one. I made my own wiring loom and despite my care I did make some mistakes. If you want to make you own loom XCOM have really good instructions on their WEB site. They do sell a wiring loom and I thought it was expensive at first, however after messing around for a day the ready made one seemed like a bargain. Regards, Paul ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:22 AM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Tailwheel antics..... --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com In a message dated 11/23/2005 2:58:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes: Hi Glenn, > The main difference I experienced was that with the Citab, you're never > quite sure when its done flying. > > Very true, especially when you have oleo gear like mine. A stiff cross wind, > sticky asphalt and oleo gear will definately keep your attention. After 350+ > hours in my Citabria and another 180 in my Pawnee towing gliders, I've found > one sure fire way to know when they are done flying: When the wheels are > chocked in the hangar! The instructor who transitioned me to tailwheel told me some very insightful words. He said most people get in trouble with taildraggers because they think it's over when the wheels are on the ground. The truth is it ain't over until the wheels are in the hangar! Regards, John Lawton Dunlap, TN A-245 (Waiting on my prop so I can finish the cowls and spinner.) DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:38 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: door push rods --> Europa-List message posted by: "Raimo Toivio" thanks Steve, its helps but anyway I remade them and now the doors are almost too tight (from point to point exactly 947 mm). Raimo #417 ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve v." Subject: Europa-List: RE: door push rods > --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." > > hi Raimo, > > i too constructed the shoot bolts " within a mm " of the manual spec., and , as you have described , i also had variations in the protruding distance of the shootbolts when extended. the factory reply was that if there is " 1/2" of the flat area of the shoot bolt protruding " then that is suficient for the installation - i did not remake them as mine were within spec. hope this is of some help. > > steve #573. > ---------------- > Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:19 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Chris, The main impression you want to take with you is that a tri-gear can be landed at any speed below that which touches nosewheel first - so you can slide in a few knots fast and nail the main gear then lower the nosewheel. That's what the 'big guys' do. It gives them latitude and flexibility. This is mainly true also for the conventional tailwheel types (with some reservations). BUT the answer to the monwheel Europa is that it should be landed on the stall, so that the she's not flying when you touch. Thus the tailwheel (if not first) is prompted to earth quickly in order to transfer directional control from the limpid rudder. Crosswinds are, yes, trickier. Fore the first two types (kiddycar and conventional) the trick is to fly in, dip the upwind wheel onto the tarmac and rudder the aircraft straight before the rest of the main gear takes the weight. All this happens in a short time with a heavy machine because of inertia. Again that's what the 'big guys' do. Slight misjudgement as to height makes a jolt but little else. BUT on a monowheel, you are like a Tiger moth - feather in the wind - susceptible to every whim and fancy of a gust. The difference in the Europa is the wonderful pitch control the stabilator gives you. The real answer is to practice landing into a steady wind and mark yourself on the accuracy of your estimate of the touchdown instant. When you can say "now" as the mainwheel touches, five times in a row, you are ready for crosswinds, and later gusts. The entire exercise is based on your knowledge of the impending stall and that takes practice. You don't want to be untrained in that before you try crosswind approaches and landings. Be prepared to go around the instant you are unsure of the touchdown - hand on throttle and stick. Having instructed on Harvards and Otters, I can bet Tony K and Nigel will agree with me. The best place to stall any aircraft is one inch off the surface. When you can do that, you are master. Flames invited. Ferg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Beck" Subject: Re: Europa-List: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] | --> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck | | Jim Brown wrote: | | >--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown | > | >I would also suggest, to those of you who want to "TRY" to wheel land a mono | >wheel, you need to do one thing first. With the engine off, have a friend or | >helper raise the tail to normal flight attitude, then take a look at how close the | >prop is to the ground or pavement. One bounce on landing, and you may be buying | >new prop blades. | > | >The center of gravity is behind the mono wheel, which will make the tail drop | >down, as soon as the wheel touches the runway, if you counter with some forward | >stick, re-read the above paragraph. | > | > | > | Jim, what sort of clearance are we talking about?? 2"? 6"? I've got a | mile on the 140. I'd have to be looking straight at the dirt to get the | prop grounded. | | Regarding the C of G, it's the same issue on any taildragger. It's | behind the mains, which causes the tail to drop when landing due to the | inertia. Trick is to zero out the rate of descent just as the mains | touch, then nail it with that bit of forward stick (as I'm sure you know | very well from the Pitts). Again, is it strictly a prop clearance issue | that prevents wheelies in the monowheel? Has this been beaten to death | in the past where I can look it up in the archives? | | I'm just very curious about the mechanics of landing a monowheel. I've | flown in a few different ones (a Classic and an XS). Now that I'm | flying a tailwheel plan, I understand a lot more of what's going on. | | Chris | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:20 AM PST US From: Chris Beck Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] --> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Chris, The main impression you want to take with you is that a tri-gear can be landed at any speed below that which touches nosewheel first - so you can slide in a few knots fast and nail the main gear then lower the nosewheel. That's what the 'big guys' do. It gives them latitude and flexibility. This is mainly true also for the conventional tailwheel types (with some reservations). BUT the answer to the monwheel Europa is that it should be landed on the stall, so that the she's not flying when you touch. Thus the tailwheel (if not first) is prompted to earth quickly in order to transfer directional control from the limpid rudder. ---> Good points, Ferg. It's really an issue of directional control with the fairly weak rudder on the Europa, then (Along with limited prop clearance for 'oops' wheel landings)? Interesting, as my tailwheel training centered around making 3-point landings for 'good' conditions, but wheel landings for crosswinds and/or gusty days due to the added control you have over the airplane. Sounds like the monowheel doesn't give you that option. Well, I suppose until I'm actually flying ours, it's all just so much discussion. It will be interesting to be able to compare flying the 140 to the Europa. Chris ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:29 AM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: Preparing for the first flight --> Europa-List message posted by: "Erich Trombley" Regarding transition training for the Europa. This what I did. I have a classic mono that has been flying now for almost three years. Prior to the first flight I worked with the local FSDO to amend my Operating Limitations to include the following: During the flight testing phase, no person may be carried in this aircraft during flight unless that person is a qualified certificated flight instructor. I did this for several reasons. First, there aren't very many Europas around my neck of the woods and as such I wanted to perform transition training in my Europa with a CFI. Two, I need ten (10) hours dual in the Europa for insurance purposes. I worked with Bob Lindsay, a retired Navy test pilot and CFII, who is fantastic!!!! Can't say enough great things about him ,as well as Kim Prout ,who recommended Bob to me. Bob required that the aircraft first be inspected by Kim. In the days leading up to the first flight I worked with Kim, who not only inspected the aircraft, but worked with me on the ground handling of the Europa. Boy, did we have some fun taxing the plane to and fro. With two thumbs up from Kim, Bob agreed to perform the first flight. Bob conducted the first flight in such an organized and professional manner you would have thought he was test flying a military fighter. He conducted several test flights before checking out a local CFI in the Europa. Due to time constraints Bob wasn't able to transition me into the Europa, hence the need to get a local CFI checked out. With my CFI current and competent in the Europa I received my ten hours of dual, and a tail wheel endorsement to boot! I had contemplated getting my tail wheel endorsement in a traditional taildragger but decided that the Europa is just too unique and therefore decided that I would just learn in the Europa. Although I can't speak for others. I am sure glad I took this approach. I didn't have to worry if a C140 or a Citabria would mimic the characteristics of the Europa since I was learning in the EUROPA. Both Bob and my CFI are great instructors! What a great feeling it was transitioning into the Europa from my many hours in Cessna's and other tri-cycle gear aircraft. Was I nervous? You bet I was. Was it challenging? Yes, but learning a new skill always is. Was it worth it? Without a doubt. Erich Trombley N28ET Classic Mono 914 Las Vegas, NV Regarding transition training for the Europa. This what I did. I have a classic mono that has been flying now for almost three years. Prior to the first flight I worked with the local FSDOto amend my Operating Limitations to include the following: During the flight testing phase, no person may be carried in this aircraft during flight unless that person is a qualified certificated flight instructor. I did this for several reasons. First, there aren't very many Europas around my neck of the woods and as such I wanted to performtransition training in my Europa with a CFI. Two, I needten (10) hours dual in the Europa for insurance purposes. I worked with Bob Lindsay, a retired Navy test pilot and CFII, whois fantastic!!!! Can't say enough great things about him ,as well as Kim Prout ,who recommended Bob to me. Bob required that the aircraft firstbe inspected by Kim. In the days leading up to the first flight I worked with Kim, who not only inspected the aircraft, but worked with me on the ground handling of the Europa.Boy, did we have some funtaxing the plane to and fro. Withtwo thumbs upfrom Kim, Bob agreed to perform the first flight. Bob conducted the first flight in such an organized and professional manner you would have thought he was test flyinga military fighter. He conducted several test flights before checking outa local CFI in the Europa. Due to time constraints Bob wasn't able to transition me into the Europa, hence the need to geta local CFI checked out. With my CFI current and competent in the Europa I received my ten hours of dual, and a tail wheel endorsement to boot! I had contemplated getting my tail wheel endorsement in a traditional taildragger but decided that the Europa is just too unique and therefore decided that I would just learn in the Europa. Although I can't speak for others. I am sure glad I took this approach.I didn't have to worry if a C140 or aCitabria would mimic the characteristics of the Europasince I was learning in the EUROPA. Both Bob and my CFIare great instructors! What a great feeling it was transitioning into the Europa from my many hours in Cessna's and other tri-cycle gear aircraft. Was I nervous? You bet I was. Was it challenging? Yes, but learning a new skill always is. Was it worth it? Without a doubt. Erich Trombley N28ET Classic Mono 914 Las Vegas, NV ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:41 AM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday/Wed? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" Hi Bob, Sorry to hear that you are not well. You missed nothing in Doth terms. Twas fogged off on Tuesday and just not go enough for some today. Get well soon. See yer! Bryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday/Wed? > --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" > > Hi! David and Bryan....others. > I would have enjoyed a trip to the original DOTH strip tomorrow but alas > I am laid low with a chest infection again and I must give the > antibiotics a chance this time ! > Have a good day. Fly Safe. > Best regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday/Wed? > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" > > > Bryan, I am up for that if the fog (which is being a bit of a problem > hereabouts at present) has cleared. Regards, David, G-XSDJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bryan Allsop" > To: > Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday/Wed? > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" > >> >> The listing has not been accepting my mail recently, and I have not > been > able to respond to DOTHs. Hopefully this has been rectified. >> >> Anyone up for a doth to Peterborough (Conington) EGSF, Tues or Wed? >> >> Cheers. Bryan Allsop >> >> >> "Fantastic service... saves a lot of time for me... I only have to go > to > one page." >> http://www.doctors.net.uk/journalwatch >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:49 AM PST US From: "jim" Subject: Europa-List: Spark Plugs and Oil Filters for the 912ULS --> Europa-List message posted by: "jim" Does anybody know of a cheap place to buy spark plugs and oil filters for the Rotax 912ULS engine? Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 jim@sportsplanes.com Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:52 PM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Europa-List: Preparing for first flight --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Many thanks to all who responded to my questions, some of whom I have already been in touch with off-list. The experience Erich shared with us today seems to be very much the way to go, in principle, and is also used here in Norway, if the builder is not doing the first flight himself. For some unexplainable reason, I just want to do that first flight myself! Although the trigear is easier to land and handle on the ground than the monowheel, I would still like to get some feel of it beforehand. Flightcrafters in Florida have helped out builders in their shop with qualified first flight/transition training pilots from the area, using the builder's own Europa. Flightcrafters have no Europa to lend. I talked with Liberty Aerospace today, thinking that Liberty XL might be the closest thing to Europa as far as flying characteristics. The person I talked to (also a CFI) told me that even though the wings are the same as on the Europa, Liberty XL does not fly just like the Europa (apart from the fact that no Liberty has yet been sold to a flying school and therefore is not readily available for training). His opinion on the Diamond DA20 Katana was that it is a different airplane altogether, further away from Europa than the Liberty is. Hmmm - still want to do that first flight, safely - - - - - - - Regards, Svein ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] From: --> Europa-List message posted by: Thx. to all who replied to "Flying a heavy Europa XS?" I owned a 1948 Cessna 170 for some time. When landing within what a reasonable crosswind may be (POH) full stall or wheel didn't matter much, both relative straight forward. Now if you were landing in what is considered unreasonable by most, the best approach I found was to fly the airplane unbelievable fast 80MPH plus and try and get the side slip to match the crosswind. The faster you fly the faster you are flying sideways. I have landed where I had full right rudder in a sideslip with left wing down and still needed a crab to keep things going down the runway. As long as your timing is superb as to kick it straight at the right second, it was a very controllable landing. I suspect the Europa is the same, you need to time things just right. Since there are a number of Europa fliers out there who fly Cessna 140s perhaps they can pursuaded into modifying their planes to more resemble a monowheel and allow some prospective pilots a try ?? What I am talkin bout is toe in. The Cessna 170 steel axles are prone to cracking. The cessna 170 club made harsh warnings to switch to solid aluminium ski axles. I allowed my A+P to make the change. HE DIDN"T REALIGN!!! It had a little toe in. I have never flown an airplane so touchy in my life. It ended up since my plane was a 1948 there was no cross for wheel shims so i needed to trig things out and used measured off the shelf cessna shims for other craft. Since I was set up and foolin I was able to try different amounts of toe in. Better to start with Max toe out that is reccomended, this way when plane begins to pull Gs in a turn it gets thrown out of the turn. If you have toe in the opposite happens! Anyway just like aft CG, the less Toe out you have the more "Responsive" your handeling will be. I think it would be easy to have 2 sets of shims, 1 training and 1 set near europalike. If you have too much toe out, you would not want to lose your brakes when landing in a crosswind. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:33 PM PST US From: "Tim Ward" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Spark Plugs and Oil Filters for the 912ULS --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Ward" Jim, Try sparkplugs.com Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, Christchurch, 8005 New Zealand. Ph +64 3 3515166 Mobile 021 0640221 ward.t@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim" Subject: Europa-List: Spark Plugs and Oil Filters for the 912ULS > --> Europa-List message posted by: "jim" > > Does anybody know of a cheap place to buy spark plugs and oil filters for > the Rotax 912ULS engine? > > Jim > > Jim Pellien > Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes > www.MASPL.com > 703-313-4818 > jim@sportsplanes.com > > > Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:34 PM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Spark Plugs and Oil Filters for the 912ULS --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com Jim , if it is like in U.K. your best bet is your local motorcycle dealers who will have the rcommended plugs at about one quarter the Rotax ot Eurpoa Price. Patrick ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:05 PM PST US From: "Gavin & Anne" Subject: Europa-List: Plenum chamber --> Europa-List message posted by: "Gavin & Anne" Hello all When I purchased my engine installation kit from the previous Europa factory they sent me a plenum chamber for a Classic Europa whereas mine is an XS=85=85.I didn't know the plenums where different, but the classic plenum is about an inch taller and has a 45 degree chamfer on the front right hand corner Is anyone out there in the opposite situation =85..ie have a classic Europa and an XS plenum? In retrospect I guess an XS plenum would easily fit under a classic cowling. The other option is to modify my existing Plenum or purchase a XS one as there is just not enough room under an XS cowling to comfortably fit it. Gavin Lee=85=85.#355 -- Checked by AVG Free Edition. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:59 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Current sales & production From: Fred Klein --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein All, As I recall, a few months ago, there was an announcement from Europa 2004 of the shipping of their first complete kit. A few days ago, I emailed the company with an enquiry as to current sales and production levels. I received a very courteous reply from John Wheeler but zero information; as John explained, "We're keeping our plans for the next year or so pretty close to our chests at the moment and we don't wish to reveal production figures or targets! Nothing personal you understand!" Is there anyone out there in cyberspace who's not sworn to secrecy and has any information in this regard? Fred A194 PS: I've enjoyed (with no small amount of envy) the recent thread on take off/landing techniques among those of you with flying Europas! DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:14 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tailwheel antics..... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Isn't that the truth !! - Paul do not archive > The instructor who transitioned me to tailwheel told me some very > insightful > words. He said most people get in trouble with taildraggers because they > think > it's over when the wheels are on the ground. The truth is it ain't over > until > the wheels are in the hangar! > > Regards, > > John Lawton ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:56 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Current sales & production --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Fred, I can say that I know that they are re focusing there efforts on the Motor glider market in Europe, but what that means in terms of kits sales I don't know. I asked if they were still interested in the US market and the reply was yes, and that they intend to come to Sun 'n fun every year, but probably not Oshkosh. do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:12 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: What We Are Thankful For... --> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, In the United States, Thursday is our National day of Thanksgiving. Many of us will be traveling to be with our families and friends and share in generous feasts of plenty. Many have expressed over the last couple of weeks how thankful they are for the Aviation Lists here on the Matronics servers and for all of the assistance and comradery they have experienced being a part of the Lists. I think one of my favorite comments is when someone says something like, "Its the first thing I do in the morning while I'm having my morning coffee!". That's a wonderful tribute to the purpose and function of these Lists. Its always great to hear I'm not the only one that jumps out of bed each morning to check my List email!! I'm not sure why, but the number of Contributions have been a little low this year compared to years past. Hopefully people are just waiting until the last minute to make their List Support Contribution this year. Won't you take a minute today and show your appreciation for these Lists and for their continued operation and upgrade? Don't make me beg... :-) lol The List Contribution Site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thanks to everyone that already made their Contribution! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:40 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Current sales & production --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" All In July when Betty and I visited Europa04, I got the idea they were working hard of something. I did not get a hint, but there was a lot of "work" being done. The Europa kit could have new all molded parts, I saw the prototypes. I hope they get it all going soon so the Europa stays in the "popular" list. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul McAllister To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 5:01 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Current sales & production --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Fred, I can say that I know that they are re focusing there efforts on the Motor glider market in Europe, but what that means in terms of kits sales I don't know. I asked if they were still interested in the US market and the reply was yes, and that they intend to come to Sun 'n fun every year, but probably not Oshkosh. do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Current sales & production From: Fred Klein --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein Cliff, That sound's fascinating...when you say the kit could "have new all molded parts, I saw the prototypes.", do you literally mean "all"?...e.g., did you see new moulds for...say...cowls?, wings?, fuselage? What evidence did you see of complete kits going out the door? With the new Light Sport Aircraft category, I've wondered whether they might put the Europa on a diet, discard the retractable mono, go back to the 80 hp 912, and just slip under the maximum allowable performance for the LSA(?). ...just speculation on my part, Fred On Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 06:20 PM, Cliff Shaw wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" > > All > > In July when Betty and I visited Europa04, I got the idea they were > working hard of something. I did not get a hint, but there was a lot > of "work" being done. > > The Europa kit could have new all molded parts, I saw the prototypes. > I hope they get it all going soon so the Europa stays in the "popular" > list. > > Cliff Shaw ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:14 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Current sales & production --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Fred , All I guess I should have been more explicit. I was shown by Andy replacement molded parts for the "glass over foam" parts. They had a fuselage and other parts setting there getting ready for shipping to a UK customer. They said that there most urgent effort was to support the builder who are in the process of building their kit. I did over hear a conversation (before the door was closed) of "flight test" on something that is being worked on. You suggest LSA , very possible. I know for sure they are not just sitting around and taking it easy. There is something going on. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Klein To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 6:51 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Current sales & production --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein Cliff, That sound's fascinating...when you say the kit could "have new all molded parts, I saw the prototypes.", do you literally mean "all"?...e.g., did you see new moulds for...say...cowls?, wings?, fuselage? What evidence did you see of complete kits going out the door? With the new Light Sport Aircraft category, I've wondered whether they might put the Europa on a diet, discard the retractable mono, go back to the 80 hp 912, and just slip under the maximum allowable performance for the LSA(?). ...just speculation on my part, Fred On Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 06:20 PM, Cliff Shaw wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" > > All > > In July when Betty and I visited Europa04, I got the idea they were > working hard of something. I did not get a hint, but there was a lot > of "work" being done. > > The Europa kit could have new all molded parts, I saw the prototypes. > I hope they get it all going soon so the Europa stays in the "popular" > list. > > Cliff Shaw ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Current sales & production From: Fred Klein --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein Cliff, Regarding Europa 04, you write that, "their most urgent effort was to support the builders who are in the process of building their kit"...that's good to know, and I salute them for doing so...but that's not much of a revenue generator. Time will tell! Fred On Wednesday, November 23, 2005, at 07:38 PM, Cliff Shaw wrote: > > They had a fuselage and other parts setting there getting ready for > shipping to a UK customer. They said that there most urgent effort > was to support the builder who are in the process of building their > kit. >