Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:16 AM - Last "Official" Day To Make Your List Contribution!! (Matt Dralle)
2. 12:34 AM - Re: woodcomp/kremen props [was: conventional gear] (Michel Auvray)
3. 12:43 AM - Re: Re: Drag Reduction (Michel Auvray)
4. 12:54 AM - Re: Hey Guys... (BEBERRY@AOL.COM)
5. 01:02 AM - Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... (BEBERRY@aol.com)
6. 01:46 AM - Re: Lies, Damned Lies .... and Statistics (Paddy Clarke)
7. 02:49 AM - Re: Lies, Damned Lies .... and Statistics (Raimo Toivio)
8. 03:11 AM - FW: Test - please ignore (Paul Sweeting)
9. 04:13 AM - Re: Lies, Damned Lies .... and Statistics (Raimo Toivio)
10. 06:06 AM - Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com)
11. 06:18 AM - Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com)
12. 06:40 AM - Re: woodcomp/kremen props [was: conventional gear] (R.C.Harrison)
13. 06:40 AM - Re: Drag Reduction (R.C.Harrison)
14. 06:40 AM - Re: Battery location (R.C.Harrison)
15. 07:26 AM - Re: woodcomp/kremen props [was: conventional gear] (Trevpond@aol.com)
16. 08:50 AM - Positive seals (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
17. 09:19 AM - Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... (Terry Seaver (terrys))
18. 09:43 AM - Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com)
19. 10:11 AM - Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... (Terry Seaver (terrys))
20. 10:49 AM - PFA Centre Tunnel Modification: was Battery location (Bruce)
21. 11:09 AM - Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... (Sven den Boer)
22. 11:26 AM - Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... (Duncan McFadyean)
23. 11:51 AM - Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... (Paul McAllister)
24. 12:16 PM - Re: woodcomp/kremen props [was: conventional gear] (R.C.Harrison)
25. 12:20 PM - Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com)
26. 12:44 PM - Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... (R.C.Harrison)
27. 01:27 PM - Re: PFA Centre Tunnel Modification: was Battery location (G-IANI)
28. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... (Chris Beck)
29. 01:42 PM - Re: fuel system (ivor.phillips)
30. 02:18 PM - Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] (Fergus Kyle)
31. 02:27 PM - modification of the rudder hinge (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Stanislav_=A9vec?=)
32. 02:34 PM - Re: Lies, Damned Lies .... and Statistics (Fergus Kyle)
33. 02:41 PM - Re: PFA Centre Tunnel Modification: was Battery location (BEBERRY@aol.com)
34. 03:06 PM - EZtrim (JR(Bob) Gowing)
35. 03:09 PM - Re: modification of the rudder hinge (SteveD)
36. 03:23 PM - Re: woodcomp/kremen props [was: conventional gear] (Rowland Carson)
37. 04:13 PM - Re: Hey Guys... (Jeff B)
38. 04:16 PM - Re: Hey Guys... (Jeff B)
39. 04:31 PM - Re: PFA Centre Tunnel Modification: was Battery location (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
40. 04:33 PM - Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] (Jim Brown)
41. 05:19 PM - Re: Hey Guys... (Paul McAllister)
42. 09:23 PM - Re: Hey Guys... (Fred Fillinger)
43. 09:34 PM - Re: Drag Reduction (Fred Fillinger)
44. 10:37 PM - Re: modification of the rudder hinge (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Stanislav_=A9vec?=)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Last "Official" Day To Make Your List Contribution!! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Well, its November 30th and that means three things...
1) Today I am officially 42 years old (sympathy is appreciated)!
2) It marks that last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser!
3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year! :-)
If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising,
no-spam, and no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a
Contribution today to support their continued operation and
upkeep. Your $20 or $30 goes a long way to further the List
operation and keep the bills paid.
A Lister wrote a funny message in the comments field of his
Contribution that I thought summed things up pretty well:
"Worth every penny and I'm a tightwad!"
Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this
year! It is greatly appreciated.
Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: woodcomp/kremen props [was: conventional gear] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michel Auvray" <mau11@free.fr>
Bonjour Rowland,
I use a SR2000 on my aircraft since 9 month the result is good.
But the problem in France is French civil aviation administration (DGAC) they recognize
only the kit manufacturer not the PFA.
To day this propeller is not recognize by Europa because they sales Airmaster propeller,
and the company do not give a letter to the French administration to
use the woodcomp propeller, and to day we are grounded with this propeller.
In France many ultralight aircraft use this propeller with 912. Sames engine same
propeller.
But with Europa aircraft is no authorised for the reason explained on top.
What solution do we have?
I think this attitude is a high brakes and contrary the sales of many kits aircraft.
Now mainly of the customers buy ultralight aircraft. The sales exploded in France
mainly for the non open attitude of kit manufacturers in accordance with aviation
administration.
Personnally I am satisfied of my aircraft, but my next aircraft is not Europa for
this attitude.
bientt,
Michel AUVRAY
Builder N145 "F-PFGT"
======= le 28/11/2005, 22:12:00 vous criviez: =======
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
>
>At 2005-11-28 20:30 +0100 Jac van Heeswijk wrote:
>
>>Are you able (and willing) to mail me a survey of the Europa's that
>>are flying with a 912S Rotax engine and a Woodcomp (or Kremen)
>>propeller type SR 200 (3 blades)
>
>I have sent a fuller response direct to Jack. As far as I know, the
>only Europas that have flown with any type of Kremen/Woodcomp
>propellers are:
>
>F-PSLY 912
>G-XSDJ 914
>HB-YIE 912S
>OK-EUR 914
>
>(I just remembered that Tim Houlihan's G-BZTH with a 912 is getting
>one fitted, but not sure if it has flown or been cleared for flight
>with it yet.)
>
>In addition to Jack, builders 402, 438, 486, 529, 556, A064, A061 all
>plan to fit Kremen/Woodcomp props of some type.
>
>If anyone knows of any other Europas fitted with Kremen/Woodcomp
>props, please let us know!
>
>regards
>
>Rowland
>--
>| Rowland Carson (retiring) Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info!
>| Europa 435 G-ROWI (750 hours building) PFA #16532
>| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
>
>
= = = = = = = = = ========= = = = = = = = = =
Michel Auvray
mau11@free.fr
30/11/2005
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Drag Reduction |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michel Auvray" <mau11@free.fr>
Bonjour NEEL Jean Philippe,
bientt,
======= le 29/11/2005, 21:50:58 vous criviez: =======
>--> Europa-List message posted by: NEEL Jean Philippe <jeanphilippeneel@yahoo.fr>
>
>Salut Michel
> Il s'agit tout simplement d'appliquer des solutions tres connues dans le monde
du vol voile. Tu peux voir ca sur les planeurs plastiques modernes.
>On pose un scotch cot charniere et un joint a levre de l'autre cot pour empecher
une circulation parasite entre l'intrados en pression et l'extra dos en depression.
Cette circulation est generatrice de traine.On peut appliquer ca au aileron
au tab et la derive.
> Par contre le faire sur les volets me semble etre une mauvaise ide, car cela
supprimerait l'effet de soufflage du a la fente des volets de l'europa . Ce soufflage
ameliore beaucoup l'efficacit des volets.
> En ce qui me concerne je vole depuis le debut avec un scotch cot charniere.
> Ne me demande pas combien de Kt ca m'a rapport!
> Vole bien
> JP
>Michel Auvray <mau11@free.fr> a crit :
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Michel Auvray"
>
>Hello John;
>I am inerested by your information concerning laminar flow.
>What is your idea to reduce drag?
>
>bientt,
>Michel Auvray builder 145, 270 hours fly with my Europa (monowheel)
>
>======= le 29/11/2005, 09:38:52 vous criviez: =======
>
>>--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>>
>>In a message dated 11/29/2005 2:58:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>>europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
>>
>>
>>> So get rid of much of that drag; it need be only relative to
>>> a big, even faired bump on the fuselage bottom, and stowed
>>> outriggers but in a place where some wing lift suffers.
>>> Like laminar flow wheel pants, if one has a way to trust the
>>> fairing mfr's sales literature. With laminer flow, fairing
>>> drag goes down something like 60%.
>>>
>>> I've seen a dozen or so flying Europas now and I've been very surprised that
>>> no one I've seen is installing flap gap seals and positive seals on the
>>> ailerons, rudder and trim tabs. Stopping the pressure equalization between
the
>>> upper and lower surfaces of the wings and stab, plus the left and right side
of
>>> the rudder has been shown to significantly improve sailplane performance.
>>> It's puzzling to me that more Europaphiles aren't using these techniques.
>>>
>>> On another note, my Sensenich hollow carbon prop arrived yesterday. All I
>>> can say is "WOW". The quality is excellent! I'll let everybody know what it
>>> weighs shortly.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> John Lawton
>>> Dunlap, TN
>>> A-245 (Installing the prop today....)
>>
>>
>
>= = = = = = = = = ========= = = = = = = = = =
>Michel Auvray
>mau11@free.fr
>29/11/2005
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
> Tlchargez le ici !
>
>
= = = = = = = = = ========= = = = = = = = = =
Michel Auvray
mau11@free.fr
30/11/2005
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com
Hi Jeff,
The answers I have had vary from a 6 knot to a 9 knot gain. Not quite the
10 that the manufacturers but encouraging.
Thanks. Patrick
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com
Recent correspondence on drag seems to indicate that the only significant
improvement (after speed kit for the Tri Gear) would be a mod to the lower
engine cowling. Has anyone any suggestions about method?
Patrick (Classic)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Lies, Damned Lies .... and Statistics |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paddy Clarke <paddyclarke@lineone.net>
Raimo,
I would just settle for micro switches on the rear shoot bolts. I've
never seen anyone manage to get the rear ones home without the front
ones being properly in. Wire the micro switches to a bright warning
light at the top of the panel,
Cheers
On 29 Nov 2005, at 20:40, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> I am going to install 2 microswitches per door
> to tell the shoot bolt position.
>
Do Not Archive
Paddy Clarke
Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Lies, Damned Lies .... and Statistics |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
Paddy,
I do understand your point
but in the other hand:
if man wants to add gizmos,
it is better to add enough them.
two switches connected serial plus
yellow and green leds per door is my
choise. System is almost weightless...
One pilot here forgot to lock his canopy
att all (or it opened suddenly because the spring
was missing), plane (not Europa) was
crashed and he lost his life. So, everything
is possible.
Terveisin, Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paddy Clarke" <paddyclarke@lineone.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lies, Damned Lies .... and Statistics
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Paddy Clarke <paddyclarke@lineone.net>
>
> Raimo,
> I would just settle for micro switches on the rear shoot bolts. I've
> never seen anyone manage to get the rear ones home without the front
> ones being properly in. Wire the micro switches to a bright warning
> light at the top of the panel,
> Cheers
> On 29 Nov 2005, at 20:40, Raimo Toivio wrote:
> >
> > I am going to install 2 microswitches per door
> > to tell the shoot bolt position.
> >
> Do Not Archive
> Paddy Clarke
>
> Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | FW: Test - please ignore |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul Sweeting" <europa@percyville.plus.com>
Testing new smtp outgoing email server
Paul
Do not archive
--
--
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Lies, Damned Lies .... and Statistics |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
Exellent explanation!
Stubid I am!
I love those (english) abbreviations!
What about "RQIDANC-A.S."?
Raimo
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <DuaneFamly@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lies, Damned Lies .... and Statistics
> --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
>
> My guess would be "Pre Flight Inspection".
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... |
11/30/2005 09:03:28 AM,
Serialize complete at 11/30/2005 09:03:28 AM
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Terry,
Chris Staines re-worked his 914 mono cowl last winter.
Moved the "chin" back to just in front of the radiator and cut down the
size a bit. Also cleaned up the outflow area at the rear of the cowl.
As the cowling is now closer to the muffler and exhaust pipes he had to
add some reflective heat shield material to the inside of the cowl.
Looks neat, sort of Mustang like and seems to have improved cooling.
As to speed, Chris thinks he has picked up 1 or 2 knots, really hard to
measure as so many things come into play.
It is a lot of work for a small gain.
Dave
"Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
11/29/2005 06:16 PM
Please respond to europa-list
To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
cc:
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag...
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)"
<terrys@cisco.com>
No one has said anything about the XS cowl.
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] |
11/30/2005 09:15:29 AM,
Serialize complete at 11/30/2005 09:15:29 AM
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Thanks Cliff,
That seems like an neat and easy solution, I don't have the old tail wheel
mount so cannot utilise Duncan's suggestion.
Will have to get my calculator out on the weekend and see what sort of
sort of weight would be optimal.
Dave
do not archive
"Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
11/29/2005 05:16 PM
Please respond to europa-list
To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
cc:
Subject: Re: Europa-List: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa
XS?]
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Dave
Kim Prout put me on to a slick way to add weight to the Europa tail. He
showed me a short section of pipe of brass rod that was sized just right.
He pulled off his TPs and slipped this weighted pipe inside the tube that
the TPs mount on.
I did this with an alum pipe filled with melted tire weights. I made two
5.5 lb pipes and moved my CG one inch aft. I am now fly this way and
think that it is easier to land.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
The next question would be, has anyone come up with a safe, secure and
simple method of adding weight in the tail.
Dave A061
Message 12
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| Subject: | woodcomp/kremen props [was: conventional gear] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Michel.
I REALLY don't think you are entitled to decry Europa for promoting the
propeller of their choice. Would you "shoot yourself in the foot"?
Seems to me that your own authority has it's head up it's anus.
You should make an approach to Kremen and and get the French Authorities
to re-examine their "eyes closed attitude.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 MT CS Prop.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Auvray
Subject: Re: Europa-List: woodcomp/kremen props [was: conventional gear]
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michel Auvray" <mau11@free.fr>
Bonjour Rowland,
I use a SR2000 on my aircraft since 9 month the result is good.
But the problem in France is French civil aviation administration (DGAC)
they recognize only the kit manufacturer not the PFA.
To day this propeller is not recognize by Europa because they sales
Airmaster propeller, and the company do not give a letter to the French
administration to use the woodcomp propeller, and to day we are grounded
with this propeller.
In France many ultralight aircraft use this propeller with 912. Sames
engine same propeller.
But with Europa aircraft is no authorised for the reason explained on
top.
What solution do we have?
I think this attitude is a high brakes and contrary the sales of many
kits aircraft.
Now mainly of the customers buy ultralight aircraft. The sales exploded
in France mainly for the non open attitude of kit manufacturers in
accordance with aviation administration.
Personnally I am satisfied of my aircraft, but my next aircraft is not
Europa for this attitude.
bientt,
Michel AUVRAY
Builder N145 "F-PFGT"
======= le 28/11/2005, 22:12:00 vous criviez: =======
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
>
>At 2005-11-28 20:30 +0100 Jac van Heeswijk wrote:
>
>>Are you able (and willing) to mail me a survey of the Europa's that
>>are flying with a 912S Rotax engine and a Woodcomp (or Kremen)
>>propeller type SR 200 (3 blades)
>
>I have sent a fuller response direct to Jack. As far as I know, the
>only Europas that have flown with any type of Kremen/Woodcomp
>propellers are:
>
>F-PSLY 912
>G-XSDJ 914
>HB-YIE 912S
>OK-EUR 914
>
>(I just remembered that Tim Houlihan's G-BZTH with a 912 is getting
>one fitted, but not sure if it has flown or been cleared for flight
>with it yet.)
>
>In addition to Jack, builders 402, 438, 486, 529, 556, A064, A061 all
>plan to fit Kremen/Woodcomp props of some type.
>
>If anyone knows of any other Europas fitted with Kremen/Woodcomp
>props, please let us know!
>
>regards
>
>Rowland
>--
>| Rowland Carson (retiring) Europa Club Membership Secretary - email
for info!
>| Europa 435 G-ROWI (750 hours building) PFA #16532
>| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
>
>
= = = = = = = = = ========= = = = = = = = = =
Michel Auvray
mau11@free.fr
30/11/2005
Message 13
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Cliff/Fred/all
I extended my flaps and faired them to fit the fuselage with a close out
when flaps are up.
I also included a tapered guide tube to direct the flap drive on to the
pin automatically for single man rigging. See:-
http://www.crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk/europa.htm
Click on "Bob Harrison's Europa G-PTAG and scroll to "Flap slot covers".
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cliff Shaw
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Drag Reduction
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Fred
I found help looking at pages like this.
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/textindex.htm
After building as careful as I could, I decided that gap seals on the
ailerons would not be of much help. My fit is very close and works
smoothly.
Now on your rudder you might need some help if you don't use a 48" hinge
like I did. On the flaps, I think something might help, but remember
they are slotted /fowler flaps and must vent air when deployed. The gap
seal would only be active when the flaps are up and mine fit nearly as
tight as my ailerons. I have not installed any glider type gap seals.
A note here, I did close-out all the ends of my control surfaces
smoothly fining in the void after the regular close-out. I think this
makes for less air turbulence spilling over the end of the surfaces.
Also I made a smooth faring from my flaps to the fuselage. I would build
it a bit bigger and a little differently if I were to do it again.
I know your guys in the UK have a devil of a time making these kinds of
mods to your Europas, but us in the left side have still some latitude
to "experiment". I love building, only if my wife would let me do
anothere one :) !
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
Message 14
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| Subject: | Battery location |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Alex
Sounds a good idea! There is a PFA mod (G-OGAN) for reworking the centre
console and lowering it but it has to be to a good standard since the
tunnel is a major structural strength item.
However with it in there it could be accessible for charge up without
removing the cowl.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alexander
Kaarsberg
Subject: Europa-List: Battery location
--> Europa-List message posted by: Alexander Kaarsberg
<kaarsber@terra.com.br>
Has anybody ever considered putting the battery under the center console
in the trigear?
I was thinking of a sleigh-type arrangement for the battery with a trim
handle input to it, could kill a few birds with one stone...(?)
It would obviously need some extra strength in the area to support the
weight, but could be worth some work.
Alex, kit 529
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: woodcomp/kremen props [was: conventional gear] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Trevpond@aol.com
Hi Bob,
Have you ever tried to tell the French Authorities anything!!!!
Trev
Kit 598
Message 16
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--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 11/30/2005 2:58:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
> Can you describe the nature of the gap seals you allude to?
> With regard to flap seals, would they be on the top, underside, or on
> both wing surfaces?
> If on the underside, are you suggesting a closure strip attached to the
> wing and tight to the underside of the flap which would flex and slide
> along the flap surface when the flaps are lowered?
> Would such a strip be taped to the wing, or glued, with the forward
> edge faired into the wing surface to mitigate any bump caused by the
> thickness off the gap seal strip?
> What material would you propose to use for such seals?
Hi Fred,
Positive seals are fairly common in modern sailplanes, especially the racers.
They involve using a strip of lightweight dacron (parachute material) which
is attached to the aileron closeout and the forward edge of the aileron, either
with yellow contact cement (preferably) or double stick tape. This prevents,
or at least reduces, the tendency for pressure equalization between the upper
and lower surfaces of the wing, thus reducing drag and making the aileron more
effective. The same can be done on the rudder.
A thin strip of mylar is often installed over the gap between the aileron and
the rear edge of the wing, top and bottom. This helps the flow to stay
attached and results in better control, less drag, etc. The rudder can also be
mylared, as well as the trim tab top.
The Europa flap closeout must have been designed for a flap gap seal. The
flat portion of the closeout where the flap noses up to when the flaps are up
simply begs for a seal. A simple piece of foam weather-strip here installed so
that the nose of the flap touches it when up is all it would take. Mine is only
about 1/8" thick. Use something UV stable, though. Since the Europa has Fowler
type flaps, I'd avoid using any mylar on them so as to not disrupt the
airflow when the flaps are down. I don't think the weather-strip will interfere
with
the airflow, though. It's likely in a turbulent location when the flaps are
down, so any effects are minimized. I've also installed a thin layer of foam on
the end of the flap so that it seals to the side of the fuselage when the
flaps are up.
There's a good tutorial about positive seals and mylar at
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page28.htm Tim also sells all the goodies you need to seal up an
airplane.
Bruce Carmicheal's book about personal aircraft drag reduction has a lot of
very good information on drag reduction, too, although it is a bit heavy on the
math. Certainly not light reading. He says the wing root and cooling flow are
the two biggest places to reduce drag in small airplanes.
BTW, the new prop, hub, spinner, backplate and bolts come in at 10.2 lbs. I'm
going to measure the blade twist today and I'll post it later.
Anyway, hope it helps!
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245 (Left to do: Prop, spinner, cowls, go fly.....)
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
Hi Dave,
I have long believed that moving the chin back to just in front of the
radiators could help improve cooling on the ground, placing the opening
behind a more outboard section of the prop (more prop wash) and reducing
drag in the duct. Any gain in speed would just be icing on the cake for
me. In comparison to other aircraft of much greater horsepower, the
lower duct inlet seems much larger than needed for only 100 HP. An
efficient duct should be able to get by with a smaller duct, with less
drag.
Also, the 'gills' on the sides of the upper cowl seem to be counter
productive for cooling (based on our instrumented mods). Closing them
up should also reduce drag.
Any pictures of Charles Staines modified cowl? Has he commented on any
changes to ground cooling?
Regards,
Terry Seaver
A135
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag...
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Terry,
Chris Staines re-worked his 914 mono cowl last winter.
Moved the "chin" back to just in front of the radiator and cut down the
size a bit. Also cleaned up the outflow area at the rear of the cowl.
As the cowling is now closer to the muffler and exhaust pipes he had to
add some reflective heat shield material to the inside of the cowl.
Looks neat, sort of Mustang like and seems to have improved cooling.
As to speed, Chris thinks he has picked up 1 or 2 knots, really hard to
measure as so many things come into play.
It is a lot of work for a small gain.
Dave
Message 18
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| Subject: | Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... |
11/30/2005 12:43:08 PM,
Serialize complete at 11/30/2005 12:43:08 PM
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Hi Terry,
One of Chris's objectives was to improve cooling on the ground, he seems
to have done this.
He stretched the two circular openings in the centre of the cowl, and
actually doubled the number of "gills".
He was thinking of writing an article for the Europa Flyer, but is a
particularly busy person, and of course this is very much a trial and
error sort of mod, so it may not meet with unanimous approval.
I'm very low tech and will probably be the last person in the world
without a digital camera or cell phone, but I've got some photos of
Chris's plane around the house and would be happy to stick them in the
mail.
Dave
"Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
11/30/2005 12:19 PM
Please respond to europa-list
To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
cc:
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag...
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)"
<terrys@cisco.com>
Hi Dave,
I have long believed that moving the chin back to just in front of the
radiators could help improve cooling on the ground, placing the opening
behind a more outboard section of the prop (more prop wash) and reducing
drag in the duct. Any gain in speed would just be icing on the cake for
me. In comparison to other aircraft of much greater horsepower, the
lower duct inlet seems much larger than needed for only 100 HP. An
efficient duct should be able to get by with a smaller duct, with less
drag.
Also, the 'gills' on the sides of the upper cowl seem to be counter
productive for cooling (based on our instrumented mods). Closing them
up should also reduce drag.
Any pictures of Charles Staines modified cowl? Has he commented on any
changes to ground cooling?
Regards,
Terry Seaver
A135
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag...
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Terry,
Chris Staines re-worked his 914 mono cowl last winter.
Moved the "chin" back to just in front of the radiator and cut down the
size a bit. Also cleaned up the outflow area at the rear of the cowl.
As the cowling is now closer to the muffler and exhaust pipes he had to
add some reflective heat shield material to the inside of the cowl.
Looks neat, sort of Mustang like and seems to have improved cooling.
As to speed, Chris thinks he has picked up 1 or 2 knots, really hard to
measure as so many things come into play.
It is a lot of work for a small gain.
Dave
Message 19
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| Subject: | Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
Hi Dave,
I am surprised Chris actually increased the gill openings. We found
them very harmful to engine cooling (in flight) and closed them off
(three of the four). The air from the two round inlets (on each side of
the prop) would flow across the top of the engine and out the gills,
without cooling anything significant. After closing them off, we saw
the cooling air from the round inlets go down the back of the engine and
out the bottom of the cowl, also without providing much cooling of
anything useful. After closing off the area behind the engine (between
the foot wells), we finally got sufficient cooling air past the
cylinders and exhaust, lowering oil temps 20 degF and peak in-cowl temps
200 degF.
Remember, the Rotax has liquid cooled heads and air cooled cylinders. It
is the air from the small round inlets that is supposed to cool the
cylinders (and exhaust system), not pass directly out of the cowl
through the gills.
Even after closing off the gills and between the foot wells, the
temperatures at the top of the cowl (carbs, ignition, etc) remained
within a few degrees of ambient.
Regards,
Terry Seaver
A135
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag...
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Hi Terry,
One of Chris's objectives was to improve cooling on the ground, he seems
to have done this.
He stretched the two circular openings in the centre of the cowl, and
actually doubled the number of "gills".
He was thinking of writing an article for the Europa Flyer, but is a
particularly busy person, and of course this is very much a trial and
error sort of mod, so it may not meet with unanimous approval.
I'm very low tech and will probably be the last person in the world
without a digital camera or cell phone, but I've got some photos of
Chris's plane around the house and would be happy to stick them in the
mail.
Dave
Message 20
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| Subject: | PFA Centre Tunnel Modification: was Battery location |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bruce" <bruce@justbruce.com>
Hi Bob (or others),
Bob mentioned a PFA mod for lowering the centre tunnel. Like many of us
here on the western side of the Atlantic with Trikes or Tri-draggers (i.e.:
Bob Berube's Conventional Gear Kit), I have a cut-down tunnel. I'm thinking
that it would be nice to check out the details of that PFA mod just so I
could verify in my own mind that the reinforcements I did were on the right
track.
I spent a few minutes up on the PFA web-site and found lots of information
about how to submit mods. I also found a list of standard mods and on that
list I saw Europa mod #10601 relating to the "Modification of Centre
Tunnel". It was not apparent how one would download or access this mod. I
would appreciate a brief description of this mod, or suggestions on how to
download the mod.
Regards,
Bruce
XS142
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Battery location
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison"
<ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Alex
Sounds a good idea! There is a PFA mod (G-OGAN) for reworking the centre
console and lowering it but it has to be to a good standard since the
tunnel is a major structural strength item.
However with it in there it could be accessible for charge up without
removing the cowl.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer" <svendenboer@quicknet.nl>
Has anybody made a comparisson on an engine with and without the Rotax
airbafle on a 912S
Cheers
Sven den Boer
PH-SBR
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
<<Also, the 'gills' on the sides of the upper cowl seem to be counter
productive for cooling>>
Now your talking! I reckon these gills throw out a plume of air that (at
least locally) destroys the airflow down the side of the fus., creating
significant drag.
Has anyone blocked these off to see what speed advantage is gained?
Downside would be overheating/short life of alternator regulator, but
cooling for this could be separately provided for.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag...
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)"
> <terrys@cisco.com>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> I have long believed that moving the chin back to just in front of the
> radiators could help improve cooling on the ground, placing the opening
> behind a more outboard section of the prop (more prop wash) and reducing
> drag in the duct. Any gain in speed would just be icing on the cake for
> me. In comparison to other aircraft of much greater horsepower, the
> lower duct inlet seems much larger than needed for only 100 HP. An
> efficient duct should be able to get by with a smaller duct, with less
> drag.
>
> Also, the 'gills' on the sides of the upper cowl seem to be counter
> productive for cooling (based on our instrumented mods). Closing them
> up should also reduce drag.
>
> Any pictures of Charles Staines modified cowl? Has he commented on any
> changes to ground cooling?
>
> Regards,
> Terry Seaver
> A135
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag...
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
>
> Terry,
>
> Chris Staines re-worked his 914 mono cowl last winter.
> Moved the "chin" back to just in front of the radiator and cut down the
> size a bit. Also cleaned up the outflow area at the rear of the cowl.
> As the cowling is now closer to the muffler and exhaust pipes he had to
> add some reflective heat shield material to the inside of the cowl.
> Looks neat, sort of Mustang like and seems to have improved cooling.
> As to speed, Chris thinks he has picked up 1 or 2 knots, really hard to
> measure as so many things come into play.
> It is a lot of work for a small gain.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
Dave's mod seems like something that I have been thinking of doing. Do you
happen to know if he reduced the size of the air inlet or was it left the
same. I seem to recall that Duncan reduced his by about a third with no ill
effect on cooling, so it would seem that there is a bit of opportunity to
reduce drag in this area. The other opportunity is where the exhaust exits
on the 914. That was an after thought if I ever saw one. I think I could
move the bend closer to the muffler, add a fairing onto the cowl and maybe
even some exhaust augmentation like the canard guys do.
I can't help but think that by moving the inlet back, reducing the frontal
area, creating an expansion area before the radiator and a compression to re
accelate the air after the radiators, along with some improvements in how
the exhaust works that I must be able to pick up 4 or 5 knots..... but you
never know, this type of thing is generally pretty fickle.
By the way, when I cut my gills out I accidentally cut the wrong side, so
they don't really provide a means of outflow, in actual fact air might even
flow in!! Any how I didn't realize my mistake until Andy pointed it out to
me about a year latter. I suspect things run cooler under my cowl because I
don't see things like melted cable ties that Terry did.
Paul
Message 24
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| Subject: | woodcomp/kremen props [was: conventional gear] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Trev.
If I did the bloody EU would lock me up! but that's the state of play
we're in !
Bob H .
Do not archive....
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Trevpond@aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: woodcomp/kremen props [was: conventional gear]
--> Europa-List message posted by: Trevpond@aol.com
Hi Bob,
Have you ever tried to tell the French Authorities anything!!!!
Trev
Kit 598
Message 25
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| Subject: | Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... |
11/30/2005 03:20:17 PM,
Serialize complete at 11/30/2005 03:20:17 PM
--> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
Paul,
It's not a mod that I have made, but yes Chris did cut down on the area of
the intake.
I've not measured it, but it looks to be about 2.5" deep and also wider
than the original.
He had done a lot of reading on cooling drag, and a lot of the work went
into smoothing the outflow of air, and reducing the downward exit angle.
Dave
"Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
11/30/2005 02:50 PM
Please respond to europa-list
To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
cc:
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag...
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
<paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
Dave's mod seems like something that I have been thinking of doing. Do you
happen to know if he reduced the size of the air inlet or was it left the
same.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! All
It may not be relevant but on G-PTAG there are no gills and since it is
the Jab 3300 it is entirely air cooled so all the cooling air has to
exit the lower rear part of the cowl with no bad effects on the
alternator situated at the rear of the engine.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Duncan
McFadyean
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag...
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean"
<ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
<<Also, the 'gills' on the sides of the upper cowl seem to be counter
productive for cooling>>
Now your talking! I reckon these gills throw out a plume of air that (at
least locally) destroys the airflow down the side of the fus., creating
significant drag.
Has anyone blocked these off to see what speed advantage is gained?
Downside would be overheating/short life of alternator regulator, but
cooling for this could be separately provided for.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag...
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)"
> <terrys@cisco.com>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> I have long believed that moving the chin back to just in front of the
> radiators could help improve cooling on the ground, placing the
opening
> behind a more outboard section of the prop (more prop wash) and
reducing
> drag in the duct. Any gain in speed would just be icing on the cake
for
> me. In comparison to other aircraft of much greater horsepower, the
> lower duct inlet seems much larger than needed for only 100 HP. An
> efficient duct should be able to get by with a smaller duct, with less
> drag.
>
> Also, the 'gills' on the sides of the upper cowl seem to be counter
> productive for cooling (based on our instrumented mods). Closing them
> up should also reduce drag.
>
> Any pictures of Charles Staines modified cowl? Has he commented on
any
> changes to ground cooling?
>
> Regards,
> Terry Seaver
> A135
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag...
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
>
> Terry,
>
> Chris Staines re-worked his 914 mono cowl last winter.
> Moved the "chin" back to just in front of the radiator and cut down
the
> size a bit. Also cleaned up the outflow area at the rear of the cowl.
> As the cowling is now closer to the muffler and exhaust pipes he had
to
> add some reflective heat shield material to the inside of the cowl.
> Looks neat, sort of Mustang like and seems to have improved cooling.
> As to speed, Chris thinks he has picked up 1 or 2 knots, really hard
to
> measure as so many things come into play.
> It is a lot of work for a small gain.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | PFA Centre Tunnel Modification: was Battery location |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
Bruce
The Mod 10601 is mine (G-IANI). The G-OGAN mod is now superseded. 10601 is
classified "All of Type" so anyone can use it with PFA approval. The PFA do
not have it in a machine readable form and I am in the process of converting
it to a "Standard" mod which will be available on the PFA site. All
Standard Mods should be available on the site but they have not got it
working properly as yet.
As you are interested I can e-mail you direct with the basic mod
application. If you let me know (and are interested) I have the engineering
calculation that supported the application.
Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
Subject: Europa-List: PFA Centre Tunnel Modification: was Battery
location
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bruce" <bruce@justbruce.com>
Hi Bob (or others),
Bob mentioned a PFA mod for lowering the centre tunnel. Like many of us
here on the western side of the Atlantic with Trikes or Tri-draggers (i.e.:
Bob Berube's Conventional Gear Kit), I have a cut-down tunnel. I'm thinking
that it would be nice to check out the details of that PFA mod just so I
could verify in my own mind that the reinforcements I did were on the right
track.
I spent a few minutes up on the PFA web-site and found lots of information
about how to submit mods. I also found a list of standard mods and on that
list I saw Europa mod #10601 relating to the "Modification of Centre
Tunnel". It was not apparent how one would download or access this mod. I
would appreciate a brief description of this mod, or suggestions on how to
download the mod.
Regards,
Bruce
XS142
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Hey Guys...Speaking of drag... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net>
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
Hi Dave,
I am surprised Chris actually increased the gill openings. We found
them very harmful to engine cooling (in flight) and closed them off
(three of the four). The air from the two round inlets (on each side of
the prop) would flow across the top of the engine and out the gills,
without cooling anything significant. After closing them off, we saw
the cooling air from the round inlets go down the back of the engine and
out the bottom of the cowl, also without providing much cooling of
anything useful. After closing off the area behind the engine (between
the foot wells), we finally got sufficient cooling air past the
cylinders and exhaust, lowering oil temps 20 degF and peak in-cowl temps
200 degF.
Remember, the Rotax has liquid cooled heads and air cooled cylinders. It
is the air from the small round inlets that is supposed to cool the
cylinders (and exhaust system), not pass directly out of the cowl
through the gills.
Even after closing off the gills and between the foot wells, the
temperatures at the top of the cowl (carbs, ignition, etc) remained
within a few degrees of ambient.
Regards,
Terry Seaver
A135
---> I would think you would want a cooling setup similar to any other air-cooled
aircraft, then. The engine should have a sort of plenum setup and baffling
like you'd see on a Lyc. or Continental. This would block off the rear portion
of the cowling from the incoming air with baffle seals to the top cowling,
forcing the incoming air to flow down past the cylinders, out the bottom of the
engine, and out the lower portion of the cowl. If there are areas of the rear
of the engine and/or firewall that need cooling, you can then tap off from
the rear engine baffle with SCAT duct and blast tubes to keep stuff cool.
That's how our little 140 is setup and it works just fine, like all the other air
cooled bug smashers flying. Of course, the cowl openings are large enough
to drive a Buick through and I'm sure there is a very large amount of cooling
drag (as well as every other type of drag).
I've not studied the Europa XS cowling setup that much, and we're not to that point
yet, but it indeed seems like a valuable place to spend time, as I've read
alot about cooling problems and such with the Europa on the ground, and even
marginal cooling in the air.
Chris
A159
Message 29
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
Hi Gary
I used a Andair FS20X2-F fuel valve, Off to the Right, Main straight ahead
and reserve to the left,
The return fuel from the Rotax 914 regulator can go back into the Reserve
side of the fuel tank,
Ivor Phillips
XS486
Subject: Europa-List: fuel system
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "gleinberger"
> <gleinberger@millersville.edu>
>
> I am working on the cockpit module and am trying to assemble the parts for
> the fuel system. I want to use a 914 Turbo Rotex - do I need the Andair
> FS22D2 Duplex Valve? My understanding is that the 914 needs a return line.
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
After landing all four planes were refueled. The two tri-gear's took over
two
gallons each, more fuel than my mono wheel. I had used over a gallon more
than the glider winged mono wheel,
We were all at about the same airspeed, in the same area for the flight, so
the conditions were the same on each aircraft.
Jim:
That's got to be some smooth formation work....... Any
fourplane I've been in the poor old number four ran short a lot sooner than
Lead. usually me.
Ferg
Message 31
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| Subject: | modification of the rudder hinge |
--> Europa-List message posted by: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Stanislav_=A9vec?= <standa.svec@volny.cz>
Please, could somebody give me some contact or link to the modification of the
rudder hinge (additional pivot)? I know only, that this modification is flying
in Sweden.
Thanks very much in advance for help.
Stanislav
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Lies, Damned Lies .... and Statistics |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
"read Mike's posting with interest as his observations match the
statistical evidence.
................some statistics - which among other things illustrated to
my great surprise, that the type of pilot most likely to "loose it"
(usually
on landing) was the high time airline professional."
Nigel,
I'll buy all that stat research, but part of the 'Damned lies' is
leaving out the odd word. "High time airline professionals" conjour up some
impressive gray-haired four-ringer with bags of experience - BUT he may
never have flown a stick, or choked a cylinder - and these days might not
even understand 'tail wheel'.
They're putting out Captains these days with the minimum lightplane
experience (less than a year, and no bush pilot time), then rehearsing them
through boxes and written pooh and then serve an apprenticeship in the back
of a behemoth.
I'd be more interested in his hands-and-feet time before letting my
eyes glisten over. That should say "Only Airline Experience". We have the
same thing here......
Cheers, Ferg
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: PFA Centre Tunnel Modification: was Battery location |
--> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com
Ian,
I have been thinking for some time that while I am working on my 914 I would
like to alter the centre tunnel, in particular to get the fuel cock to sit
horizontally on top. Details of your mod would be much appreciated. As I have
the parallel fuel pumps and filters on the deck of the tunnel, I would need
to retain easy access. Advice welcomed.
Patrick
Message 34
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "JR(Bob) Gowing" <gowingjr@acr.net.au>
Please anyone
Did the EZtrim come to anything or fall from interest
JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz
do not archive
Message 35
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| Subject: | RE: modification of the rudder hinge |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
(additional pivot)
If you mean Grahams Tail Wheel mod. that also affects the rudder. You can download
the PDF at:
http://www.europaowners.org/dlman.php?func=file_info&file_id=111
You can also try:
http://www.europaowners.org/Gallery
In the search block type, Rudder or Tail wheel, you'll get lots of pictures of
the back end of Europas.
Hope that helps,
Steved
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: woodcomp/kremen props [was: conventional gear] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 2005-11-30 09:33 +0100 Michel Auvray wrote:
>I use a SR2000 on my aircraft since 9 month the result is good
Michel - thanks for the update - I have not heard any bad reports of
the Kremen/Woodcomp props.
>But the problem in France is French civil aviation administration
>(DGAC) they recognize only the kit manufacturer not the PFA.
>To day this propeller is not recognize by Europa because they sales
>Airmaster propeller, and the company do not give a letter to the
>French administration to use the woodcomp propeller, and to day we
>are grounded with this propeller
If I understand correctly - you're saying that your Europa is now
grounded after operating OK with this prop for the previous 9 months.
And if you cannot get some sort of approval document from the Europa
factory, you must fit a different prop (Warp Drive, I assume) before
you can fly again. If the DGAC allowed it to be fitted and used in
the first place, why did they change their mind - was there an
incident that prompted this grounding?
>What solution do we have?
I know that for various changes ("mods") to the Europa, PFA
Engineering have asked the Europa company for a "letter of no
technical objection" before approving the change. Perhaps this is
also the case when fitting a prop different from the
factory-recommended one. If so, Bryan Allsop would know as it seems
he (or maybe William Mills? - more info is coming in daily!) was the
first to fit a Kremen / Woodcomp prop to a 912S in UK. I am certain
that David Joyce was the pioneer for the Kremen / 914 combination.
IF such a letter was sent to the PFA by Europa, and IF Europa could
be persuaded to send a similar letter (or just a photocopy?) to the
right person at the DGAC, and IF that would be enough to satisfy the
DGAC, maybe there is a solution!
I suggest Bryan (912S), David (914) or Tim Houlihan (912) contact you
off-list if they know of the existence of a "letter of no technical
objection" referring to the Kremen / Woodcomp prop. The letter (if it
exists) may be specific to the type of engine, so I think Tim might
be your best contact as I believe you have a 912. If not
engine-specific, probably David might be best.
Hope this is of some help!
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson (retiring) Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info!
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (750 hours building) PFA #16532
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
Message 37
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff B <topglock@cox.net>
Jeff,
Mary says that if there has to be "The Other Woman", Baby Blue is the
only one she will accept... ;)
Jeff - N55XS
110 hrs
do not archive
JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
>
> Oh Know! If my wife hears anyone call the Europa sexy one more time
> I'll have to move into the shop.
> Jeff
> A258 128LJ
> Interior going in.
>
> Ah Do Not Archive
>
>
> On Nov 29, 2005, at 5:32 PM, Jeff B wrote:
>
>
>>--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff B <topglock@cox.net>
>>
>>Patrick,
>>
>>I got a 6kt gain in cruise and it looks a hell of a lot better...
>>Sexy,
>>it has been called, on many occasions...
>>
>>Jeff - N55XS
>>110 hrs
>>
>>BEBERRY@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>--> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Speed Kit,
>>>
>>>
>>>Still no answers! I am fitting my speed kit to my Tri Gear and
>>>still hoped
>>>that someone would tell me if I am doing this to gain extra
>>>performance/better fuel figures , or am I just doing a cosmetic job?
>>>
>>>Any more comments?. The correspondence has been interesting and I
>>>suppose
>>>that we shall only get subjective points of view on many aspects of
>>>the
>>>aeroplane but the question of whether a speed kit is effective,
>>>performance wise,
>>>should be relatively easy to answer - or do I have to wait until I
>>>can get
>>>airborne again.?
>>>
>>>Please !!!
>>>
>>>Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 38
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff B <topglock@cox.net>
Patrick,
Since first flight, I've been "tweaking" my bird. Total improvement is
almost 15 kts. Some is attributable to the fairings, some to the prop
controller, some to cleaning up the bird in other ways. At any rate,
the overall rate is good. Averaging 130 kts at 75%. Good enough for me...
Jeff - N55XS
110 hrs...
BEBERRY@aol.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com
>
>
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> The answers I have had vary from a 6 knot to a 9 knot gain. Not quite the
> 10 that the manufacturers but encouraging.
>
> Thanks. Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: PFA Centre Tunnel Modification: was Battery location |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Ian,
Could some of us other people bother you to post the write up of of the mod
explaining what was done but without the calculations? I would like to make
sure that the modifying that I did will not weaken my structure.
Mike Duane
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: wheel landings [was: Flying a heavy Europa XS?] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown <acrojim@cfl.rr.com>
Ferg
Thanks,
I was lucky, I had the # 3 slot. Jim Thursby was tail end charlie.
We did get a few breaks, when Keith was changing film in the cameras, and when
he had each of us, join up, one at a time for individual pictures.
I didn't realize how tired I was until we broke formation and headed back to
Lakeland. But given the opportunity I would be first in line to do it again.
Jim
Fergus Kyle wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
> After landing all four planes were refueled. The two tri-gear's took over
> two
> gallons each, more fuel than my mono wheel. I had used over a gallon more
> than the glider winged mono wheel,
>
> We were all at about the same airspeed, in the same area for the flight, so
> the conditions were the same on each aircraft.
>
> Jim:
> That's got to be some smooth formation work....... Any
> fourplane I've been in the poor old number four ran short a lot sooner than
> Lead. usually me.
> Ferg
>
Message 41
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Guys,
A few numbers from my mono 914
MAP = 29
RPM = 5050
OAT = 12 c
Alt = 3400' @ 29.92
I get 136 knots calcuated as follows:
VTAS = SQRT( V1sqr + V2sqr + V3sqr + V1sqr * V3sqr / V2sqr ) / 2
V1 first leg
V2 perpendicular to first
V3 parallel to first in opposite direction
100% power is 5500 @ 34" so I think the above numbers are close to 75%
Fuel burn at 75% is 5.4 US Gallons / hour, 100% is 7.2 gallons per hour.
If I ran at 5500 @ 34" I got 154 knots at the same OAT/Alt. If my maths is
wrong I am happy to be corrected. I think its pretty close, I file IFR @
8000' for 140 knots and it generally turns out that way.
Cheers, Paul
Message 42
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> ...
> I got a further 10 mph from leg fairings, but in this instance you
> have to bear in mind that the rectangular section gearleg provides
> about 50 sq. ins of flat plate area; whereas the tri-gear legs
> present an elliptical section to the relative airflow.
> ....
> Duncan McF.
A rectangular section is actually worse than a flat plate, but the
ellipse formed by the round, gear leg is very draggy too. If it works
out to 2/1 effective ratio (thickness/chord), Hoerner sez drag
coefficient of .75, or call it only 25% better than a flat plate. It
should have a fairing.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Drag Reduction |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> Hello John;
> I am interested by your information concerning laminar
> flow. What is your idea to reduce drag?
>
> bientt,
>
I was the one suggesting laminar flow wheel pants. A theoretical,
laminar-flow shape is not fully rounded at the front, but more pointy as
on the Europa wing. It's fattest part is around 40-50% back. Toward
the tail end of the fairing, it is concave, IOW, squished inward at the
back, meaning then the tail is not pointy, but like a vertical fin.
This means also that the sides are more flattish than rounded when
viewed from the front. Also true might be the manufacturer of this
thing doesn't have a wind tunnel, so what they claim in sales literature
is based on whatever crude method used to test it if they did. On a
"fat" airfoil like this, maintaining flow attachment gets tricky.
When we add a fairing to a necessarily smaller tire, we're adding
significant pressure drag (looking at the thing from the front, and
friction drag (wetted area). Hoerner's text, e..g, documents the drag
of exposed wheels and fat faring shapes, and in the chapter on wheel
fairings (not of laminar flow type), he suggests a drag reduction of
less than one-half that of a tire in the breeze, even with a "hubcap."
He does document, however, much greater drag reduction if a round gear
leg is faired, and that fairings are placed where the leg meets the
fairing and up at the fuselage junction (eliminate interference drag).
An example of this are the fairings on the Grumman AA-5, which they
claim as only 2 MPH boost and which I can't really see when they're on
or off. Too small, and thus requiring controlled testing. These are
not laminar flow, but classic airfoil shape, and they did little to
clean up the turbulent mess around the brake caliper, nor the
interference drag at the gear-leg junction.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: modification of the rudder hinge |
--> Europa-List message posted by: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Stanislav_=A9vec?= <standa.svec@volny.cz>
Steve, thanks very much for your reply. But I don`t mean this Grahams mod. Mod
I mean is much more simple. It is only a simple additional swivel pin mounted
under the lower rudder hinge. In Sweden was some accident, the lower rudder hinge
was turn off and this mod was reaction of the sweden av. auth. on this incident.
In Gallery I can find nothing.
Stanislav
----- Original Message -----
From: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
Subject: Europa-List: RE: modification of the rudder hinge
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
>
> (additional pivot)
> If you mean Grahams Tail Wheel mod. that also affects the rudder. You can download
the PDF at:
> http://www.europaowners.org/dlman.php?funcfile_info&file_id111
> You can also try:
> http://www.europaowners.org/Gallery
> In the search block type, Rudder or Tail wheel, you'll get lots of pictures of
the back end of Europas.
>
> Hope that helps,
> Steved
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