---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/06/05: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:53 AM - DOTH Wednesday - Definate! (Bryan Allsop) 2. 09:35 AM - Solid Throttle cable centre (Fergus Kyle) 3. 09:35 AM - Re: EZtrim (William Mills) 4. 09:44 AM - Re: Fuel sender etc. (Dan Bish) 5. 09:47 AM - Re: Europa Parts Sor Sale (Arthur Orchard) 6. 10:17 AM - Re: Fuel sender etc. (Peter Rees) 7. 10:22 AM - Re: Fuel sender etc. (GLENN CROWDER) 8. 11:04 AM - Re: Solid Throttle cable centre (BEBERRY@aol.com) 9. 11:10 AM - Re: Fuel sender etc. (BEBERRY@aol.com) 10. 12:17 PM - Re: Fuel sender etc. (N914RB) 11. 12:17 PM - Re: EZtrim (Cliff Shaw) 12. 01:10 PM - Re: EZtrim (Bill Henderson) 13. 01:44 PM - Re: Fuel sender etc. (Peter Rees) 14. 03:26 PM - Re: Solid Throttle cable centre (Pete Lawless) 15. 03:38 PM - Re: Fuel sender etc. (N914RB) 16. 03:38 PM - Re: Solid Throttle cable centre (Gilles Thesee) 17. 04:06 PM - Re: Fuel sender etc. (R.C.Harrison) 18. 06:21 PM - Re: Fuel sender etc. (KARL HEINDL) 19. 08:11 PM - 2005 List of Contributors (Update)... (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:07 AM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Wednesday - Definate! --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" William Mills and I have decided that the UK weather slot tomorrow is too good to miss. The venue will be chosen from Pilot Freebies when we have chance to look at it. We will advise this evening.If you want to drop your hat with us please let us know because it may influence that choice. Sorry to those who cant make tomorrow, but we have to go with the weather. Cheers. Bryan Allsop ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:22 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Solid Throttle cable centre --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Cheers, I'm struggling with marrying the 914 to the firewall and note that already one of the installed throttle cables is kinking. Admittedly, the return spring is not on the engine end, but once is kinks the likelihood exists......... So presume to install a solid wire instead and wonder if someone else has good advice on this. 'Piano' wire comes to mind but not sure of the replacement diameter needed, nor of rusting considerations. fortunately there's a well-equipped model shoppe half a mile away. The guilty twisted cable measures 0.060 inches and presumed something simialr would be required for the clamps, etc. Any relevent suggestions gratefully received. Ferg A064 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:22 AM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: EZtrim --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Hi Bob, Did you have any response to your message re the EZtrim off forum? I have a set of components, but because of the last bout of forum exchanges and folks suggesting it could be improved, I have put it on hold. Cliff Shaw has fitted one but last time we discussed it he had not been able to adjust the sensitivity correctly. If you are reading this Cliff, what is the current position with yours? If anyone else has fitted one, please may we hear how it is performing. Best wishes, William Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "JR(Bob) Gowing" Subject: Europa-List: EZtrim > --> Europa-List message posted by: "JR(Bob) Gowing" > > Please anyone > Did the EZtrim come to anything or fall from interest > JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz > > do not archive > > > -- > 29/11/2005 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:36 AM PST US From: "Dan Bish" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" Patrick, I did this mod after the CM was installed and I can verify to the difficulty. It can really be a major *$#@#!!! I'll be glad to send you some photos of the process when you get the bits and pieces from Phil. But you'll have to position the sender in the left side of the tank, not in the center as you mentioned doing. I put it inside the port headrest. How? By removing a hefty portion of the headrest that will be glassed back in later. It's going to be upholstered later anyway so that'll cover any cosmetic damage done. Anyway, just let me know when you get the parts and I'll start looking around for the photos. Also, order yourself a couple of mirrors on a stick if you haven't got them already. They're for finding the nut plate when (not if) you drop it inside the tank a couple of dozen times! Later, Dan Dan Bish N914RB Kit A144 - About 50% Tucson, AZ, USA ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:59 AM PST US From: "Arthur Orchard" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Parts Sor Sale --> Europa-List message posted by: "Arthur Orchard" Hi Phil, Could you please Ring me on --01407710536-- Regards Arthur Orchard, G-JOST. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Tait" Subject: Europa-List: Europa Parts Sor Sale > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Phil Tait" > > Hello all! > > > Hears your chance to get hold of the last remaining parts of G-JAPS Europa > Tri-gear. > > > Listed below is the itemised parts that are left in my workshop. > > > Item Description. > > Cost > > Cost New inc VAT > > > Top Fuselage Classic top Fuselage > > =A3250.00 > > ? > > > Ceiling panel - pre-moulded panel > > =A320.00 > > =A346.71 > > > Ceiling headset panel provides for fitting mic. and h/phone jacks > > > =A315.00 > > =A325.26 > > > Gascolator > > =A320.00 > > =A350.00 > > > DRE Stereo intercom > > =A3100.00 > > =A3250.00 > > > Mod 54 cranked control cols > > =A335.00 > > =A379.78 > > > 914 Denso Spark Plugs (20 No) Boxed New > > =A3100.00 > > =A3201.16 > > > FS450 Fuel computer (inc return transducer for 914) > > =A3350.00 > > =A3800.00 > > > Turn Co-ordinator > > =A3120.00 > > =A3260.85 > > > Hour Meter > > =A320.00 > > =A350.00 > > > Seat Belts Pr (Std Europa) > > =A370.00 > > =A3135.00 > > > Battery box (Europa) > > =A360.00 > > =A3102.23 > > > Classic Cowls (Brand new) Still in grey gel coat > > =A3250.00 > > =A3500.00 > > > 70 litre Tank (original large Tank) > > =A380.00 > > =A3300.00 > > > Front Screen (New still in plastic) > > =A3100.00 > > =A3250.00 > > > Side Screens (Second hand but good) > > =A3120.00 > > =A3250.00 > > > ASI 1 and 1/4" Witter (as supplied by Europa) > > =A3150.00 > > =A3252.63 > > > Gas struts (Pr with metal ends) > > =A340.00 > > =A388.71 > > > Fuel level kit (Gauge, sender and wiring harness) Mod '60' > > =A3100.00 > > =A3246.75 > > > Instrument Panel with cut-outs for metal panels plus demist > > =A380.00 > > =A3360.00 > > > Instrument Panel Trigear New un-used > > =A3150.00 > > =A3360.00 > > > Horizontal stabilisers (good condition) complete > > =A3200.00 > > =A3400.00 > > > Stall Warner Mod 61a > > =A350.00 > > =A395.00 > > > Cockpit module save 350 hours building (Includes tri-gear lay-ups) > > =A32,000.00 > > =A33,500.00 > > > Wing route fairings Pair (Used but in good condition) > > =A375.00 > > =A3258.50 > > > Garmin GI 106A VOR/ILS 3 1/8" Dia (as new) > > =A3700.00 > > =A31,056.33 > > > Falcon electric horizon (Brand new Never fitted) > > =A3500.00 > > =A3863.63 > > > Manifold pressure gauge inc fitting kit > > =A360.00 > > =A3125.14 > > > Manifold pressure gauge (With coloured markings) > > =A350.00 > > =A3111.63 > > > Big box of Europa parts (Lucky dip) > > =A3200.00 > > > Pair of DRE headsets ANR 'VGC' > > =A3400.00 > > =A31,000.00 > > > Epoxy Resin Pump (Used but as new) > > =A3125.00 > > =A3220.00 > > > Full set of pip pins used (6 in total) > > =A380.00 > > =A3340.00 > > > Rudder assembles complete with blocks coated white (VGC) > > =A3100.00 > > ? > > > If you are interested in any of the above then please email me > phil@archwise.co.uk with the word =91Salvage=92 in the subject box. If > you do > not receive a reply then first check to see that you have included with > the > word =91Salvage=92 in the subject box. > > > I am happy to email specific pictures of any of the items if required. I > will be happy to arrange postage. The costs will be added to the agreed > costs. > > > Please note! The costs are reasonable in my opinion however I am prepared > to take reasonable offers. The more you buy the more you will get. > > > King regards to all Europa builders > > > Phil Tait > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:17:13 AM PST US From: "Peter Rees" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" I spoke to Andy Draper about cutting the headrest and then glassing it back together - he said that it wasn't a good idea as it was part of the seatbelt retention - if you cut it to bits, you'd have to be sure about what you were doing when you put it back together. As for dropping the nut-plate in - tie it (and everything in the immediate are) with string. Its a cow of a job but the result is IMHO worth doing - our avalec capacitance fuel gauge was total rubbish. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Bish" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" > > Patrick, > > > I did this mod after the CM was installed and I can verify to the > difficulty. It can really be a major *$#@#!!! I'll be glad to send you > some > photos of the process when you get the bits and pieces from Phil. But > you'll > have to position the sender in the left side of the tank, not in the > center > as you mentioned doing. I put it inside the port headrest. How? By > removing > a hefty portion of the headrest that will be glassed back in later. It's > going to be upholstered later anyway so that'll cover any cosmetic damage > done. > > > Anyway, just let me know when you get the parts and I'll start looking > around for the photos. > > > Also, order yourself a couple of mirrors on a stick if you haven't got > them > already. They're for finding the nut plate when (not if) you drop it > inside > the tank a couple of dozen times! > > > Later, > > > Dan > > > Dan Bish > > N914RB > > Kit A144 - About 50% > > Tucson, AZ, USA > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:51 AM PST US From: "GLENN CROWDER" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. --> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" You guys be real careful about getting out any residual nylon "swarf" that falls into the tank as a result of cutting the hole. I thought I would be real clever when I did this and made a long skinny and curved nozzle for my vaccuum cleaner to clean the tank but turns out that static electricity causes the swarf to adhere to the corners of the tank (top and bottom). If you get the Canard Aviators list, you would find several engine outs on takeoff have been caused by this exact situation on VariEZ's and LongEZ's. I taxi tested for an hour after making this mod and changed my fuel filters and was shocked to find all these bits of nylon in the filters and gascolator! Glenn >From: "Dan Bish" >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. >Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:43:51 -0700 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" > >Patrick, > > >I did this mod after the CM was installed and I can verify to the >difficulty. It can really be a major *$#@#!!! I'll be glad to send you some >photos of the process when you get the bits and pieces from Phil. But >you'll >have to position the sender in the left side of the tank, not in the center >as you mentioned doing. I put it inside the port headrest. How? By removing >a hefty portion of the headrest that will be glassed back in later. It's >going to be upholstered later anyway so that'll cover any cosmetic damage >done. > > >Anyway, just let me know when you get the parts and I'll start looking >around for the photos. > > >Also, order yourself a couple of mirrors on a stick if you haven't got them >already. They're for finding the nut plate when (not if) you drop it inside >the tank a couple of dozen times! > > >Later, > > >Dan > > >Dan Bish > >N914RB > >Kit A144 - About 50% > >Tucson, AZ, USA > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:58 AM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Solid Throttle cable centre --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com Ferg I have got thoroughly fed up with the thin supplied inners for the throttle cables and have replaced them with motorcycle clutch cables which work perfectly and DO NOT KINK! They will push the throttle open even without the spring. Patrick ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:41 AM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com Hi Dan, Thanks for the warnings - one of several that I have received. I wish I could see an installation and see if one could devise an easier way of doing the job. In my 74th year I am not as supple as in former years and very much doubt my ability to work inside the limited space within the headrest. With a finished aeroplane it is not really appealing to start cutting it up again and repairing on completion so I have put the purchase on hold. Thanks again. Patrick ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:36 PM PST US From: "N914RB" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. --> Europa-List message posted by: "N914RB" Oh! I didn't realize you were talking about doing it with the top on! No, don't think I'd want to try that either. DB -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com Hi Dan, Thanks for the warnings - one of several that I have received. I wish I could see an installation and see if one could devise an easier way of doing the job. In my 74th year I am not as supple as in former years and very much doubt my ability to work inside the limited space within the headrest. With a finished aeroplane it is not really appealing to start cutting it up again and repairing on completion so I have put the purchase on hold. Thanks again. Patrick ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:36 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: EZtrim --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Yes, I am reading ! I still have not worked on setting the pots to make the Europa fly level with he EZ Trim. It works OK, just needs to be adjusted to match the Europa. If some one is reprogramming it, I might have some suggestions. Contact me off-line. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE ----- Original Message ----- From: William Mills To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 9:34 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: EZtrim --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Hi Bob, Did you have any response to your message re the EZtrim off forum? I have a set of components, but because of the last bout of forum exchanges and folks suggesting it could be improved, I have put it on hold. Cliff Shaw has fitted one but last time we discussed it he had not been able to adjust the sensitivity correctly. If you are reading this Cliff, what is the current position with yours? If anyone else has fitted one, please may we hear how it is performing. Best wishes, William Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "JR(Bob) Gowing" To: Subject: Europa-List: EZtrim > --> Europa-List message posted by: "JR(Bob) Gowing" > > Please anyone > Did the EZtrim come to anything or fall from interest > JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz > > do not archive > > > -- > 29/11/2005 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:42 PM PST US From: "Bill Henderson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: EZtrim --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bill Henderson" For any who are interested here's a link to a site with a "pitch control module". very similar to the EZ Trim, but a better concept. Looks like someone would have to write the program for the PIC though..... http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/pcm.htm Bill A010 Classic Monowheel Finally got an engine......912S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: EZtrim > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" > > Yes, I am reading ! > > I still have not worked on setting the pots to make the Europa fly level > with he EZ Trim. It works OK, just needs to be adjusted to match the > Europa. > > If some one is reprogramming it, I might have some suggestions. Contact > me off-line. > > Cliff Shaw > 1041 Euclid ave. > Edmonds, WA 98020 > 425 776 5555 > http://www.europaowners.org/WileE > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Mills > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 9:34 AM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: EZtrim > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > > > Hi Bob, > Did you have any response to your message re the EZtrim off forum? > I have a set of components, but because of the last bout of forum > exchanges > and folks suggesting it could be improved, I have put it on hold. > Cliff Shaw has fitted one but last time we discussed it he had not been > able > to adjust the sensitivity correctly. > If you are reading this Cliff, what is the current position with yours? > If anyone else has fitted one, please may we hear how it is performing. > Best wishes, > William > > Do not archive. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JR(Bob) Gowing" > To: > Subject: Europa-List: EZtrim > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "JR(Bob) Gowing" > > > > > Please anyone > > Did the EZtrim come to anything or fall from interest > > JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz > > > > do not archive > > > > > > -- > > 29/11/2005 > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:56 PM PST US From: "Peter Rees" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" If you follow the Europa way of cutting the hole using a soldering iron, it takes a long time to clean up the holes but doesn't generate any swarf. (though totals your soldering iron bit!) You really need a right angle / 45 degree one - a straight one will be really hard going). We contemplated long and hard to try and find easier ways to do the job but the most tricky bit by a long way is putting the split ring in while working inside the headrest and there is no easy way of doing that. The sender has to go here due to the shape of the tank so no easy way around this. One tip is to use a dremmel or other small cutter to cut the hole in the ply seatback to get access to the tank. Andy (or the instructions) recommended using a starret type cutter on a lever arm and trying to cut the hole this way but there seemed to be no way to get enough pressure to get the thing to bite. Drill a pilot hole to gauge how far in the dremmel can go before it touches the tank (if you drill this in the middle of the ply hole you're going to cut out, if you hit the tank, it doesn't matter as you're going to cut this bit of the tank out). If you're not dexterous and happy with spending several hours kneeling on the stbd seatback, I'd probably try someone who has done the job and see if they could 'give you a hand' (do the job while you make them lots of tea). It really, really wasn't a fun job (though it really does work very well indeed!). ----- Original Message ----- From: "GLENN CROWDER" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. > --> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" > > You guys be real careful about getting out any residual nylon "swarf" > that > falls > into the tank as a result of cutting the hole. I thought I would be real > clever > when I did this and made a long skinny and curved nozzle for my vaccuum > cleaner to clean the tank but turns out that static electricity causes the > swarf to adhere to the corners of the tank (top and bottom). > If you get the Canard Aviators list, you would find several engine outs > on > takeoff have been caused by this exact situation on VariEZ's and LongEZ's. > I taxi tested for an hour after making this mod and changed my fuel > filters and was shocked to find all these bits of nylon in the filters and > gascolator! > Glenn > >>From: "Dan Bish" >>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >>To: >>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. >>Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:43:51 -0700 >> >>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" >> >>Patrick, >> >> >>I did this mod after the CM was installed and I can verify to the >>difficulty. It can really be a major *$#@#!!! I'll be glad to send you >>some >>photos of the process when you get the bits and pieces from Phil. But >>you'll >>have to position the sender in the left side of the tank, not in the >>center >>as you mentioned doing. I put it inside the port headrest. How? By >>removing >>a hefty portion of the headrest that will be glassed back in later. It's >>going to be upholstered later anyway so that'll cover any cosmetic damage >>done. >> >> >>Anyway, just let me know when you get the parts and I'll start looking >>around for the photos. >> >> >>Also, order yourself a couple of mirrors on a stick if you haven't got >>them >>already. They're for finding the nut plate when (not if) you drop it >>inside >>the tank a couple of dozen times! >> >> >>Later, >> >> >>Dan >> >> >>Dan Bish >> >>N914RB >> >>Kit A144 - About 50% >> >>Tucson, AZ, USA >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:08 PM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Solid Throttle cable centre --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" Patrick Are you using the Europa outer or the mc clutch outer as well as the mc clutch inner cable. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Solid Throttle cable centre --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com Ferg I have got thoroughly fed up with the thin supplied inners for the throttle cables and have replaced them with motorcycle clutch cables which work perfectly and DO NOT KINK! They will push the throttle open even without the spring. Patrick -- 02/12/2005 -- 02/12/2005 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:33 PM PST US From: "N914RB" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. --> Europa-List message posted by: "N914RB" Roger that, I took a small section that won't affect the seatbelt attachment but plan to upgrade that anyway to raise the contact point so that it's higher than my shoulders to avoid compression problems in the event they're used. Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" I spoke to Andy Draper about cutting the headrest and then glassing it back together - he said that it wasn't a good idea as it was part of the seatbelt retention - if you cut it to bits, you'd have to be sure about what you were doing when you put it back together. As for dropping the nut-plate in - tie it (and everything in the immediate are) with string. Its a cow of a job but the result is IMHO worth doing - our avalec capacitance fuel gauge was total rubbish. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Bish" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" > > Patrick, > > > I did this mod after the CM was installed and I can verify to the > difficulty. It can really be a major *$#@#!!! I'll be glad to send you > some > photos of the process when you get the bits and pieces from Phil. But > you'll > have to position the sender in the left side of the tank, not in the > center > as you mentioned doing. I put it inside the port headrest. How? By > removing > a hefty portion of the headrest that will be glassed back in later. It's > going to be upholstered later anyway so that'll cover any cosmetic damage > done. > > > Anyway, just let me know when you get the parts and I'll start looking > around for the photos. > > > Also, order yourself a couple of mirrors on a stick if you haven't got > them > already. They're for finding the nut plate when (not if) you drop it > inside > the tank a couple of dozen times! > > > Later, > > > Dan > > > Dan Bish > > N914RB > > Kit A144 - About 50% > > Tucson, AZ, USA > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:58 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Solid Throttle cable centre --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee Fergus Kyle a crit : >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" > >Cheers, > I'm struggling with marrying the 914 to the firewall and note that >already one of the installed throttle cables is kinking. Admittedly, the >return spring is not on the engine end, but once is kinks the likelihood >exists......... > So presume to install a solid wire instead and wonder if someone >else has good advice on this. 'Piano' wire comes to mind but not sure of the >replacement diameter needed, nor of rusting considerations. > I have installed piano wire for throttle cables in our 914 projects, and it works quite well. Not sure of the exact diameter, but I'll check. FWIW Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:23 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! All I don't quite follow where this thread came from but if you get a bendable probe it is by comparison a "piece of cake" to go through the area between the head rests with a large elliptical hole big enough to get your hand through and have future contamination inspections too. There is a mod. with the PFA on this question but there's some re-enforcing to do round the edges of the double skin hole to do and you need to get the three plies of bid wrapped underneath between the tank top and the main structure. I carefully carved my hole out with a Stanley Knife in big chunks therefore not leaving any swarf in the tank. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" If you follow the Europa way of cutting the hole using a soldering iron, it takes a long time to clean up the holes but doesn't generate any swarf. (though totals your soldering iron bit!) You really need a right angle / 45 degree one - a straight one will be really hard going). We contemplated long and hard to try and find easier ways to do the job but the most tricky bit by a long way is putting the split ring in while working inside the headrest and there is no easy way of doing that. The sender has to go here due to the shape of the tank so no easy way around this. One tip is to use a dremmel or other small cutter to cut the hole in the ply seatback to get access to the tank. Andy (or the instructions) recommended using a starret type cutter on a lever arm and trying to cut the hole this way but there seemed to be no way to get enough pressure to get the thing to bite. Drill a pilot hole to gauge how far in the dremmel can go before it touches the tank (if you drill this in the middle of the ply hole you're going to cut out, if you hit the tank, it doesn't matter as you're going to cut this bit of the tank out). If you're not dexterous and happy with spending several hours kneeling on the stbd seatback, I'd probably try someone who has done the job and see if they could 'give you a hand' (do the job while you make them lots of tea). It really, really wasn't a fun job (though it really does work very well indeed!). ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:33 PM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Bob and All, I installed the super expensive Avelec system and find it next to useless. So I have the elliptic large opening between the headrests, with a half inch probe positioned at an angle going to the bottom of the port tank position. Can anyone tell me which fuel sender I could use to replace this, and which would give me a more or less accurate reading of fuel content regardless of which brand of fuel I use ? Karl >From: "R.C.Harrison" >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. >Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:05:48 -0000 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" > >Hi! All >I don't quite follow where this thread came from but if you get a >bendable probe it is by comparison a "piece of cake" to go through the >area between the head rests with a large elliptical hole big enough to >get your hand through and have future contamination inspections too. >There is a mod. with the PFA on this question but there's some >re-enforcing to do round the edges of the double skin hole to do and you >need to get the three plies of bid wrapped underneath between the tank >top and the main structure. I carefully carved my hole out with a >Stanley Knife in big chunks therefore not leaving any swarf in the tank. >Regards >Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sender etc. > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" > > >If you follow the Europa way of cutting the hole using a soldering iron, >it >takes a long time to clean up the holes but doesn't generate any swarf. >(though totals your soldering iron bit!) You really need a right angle / >45 >degree one - a straight one will be really hard going). > >We contemplated long and hard to try and find easier ways to do the job >but >the most tricky bit by a long way is putting the split ring in while >working >inside the headrest and there is no easy way of doing that. The sender >has >to go here due to the shape of the tank so no easy way around this. > >One tip is to use a dremmel or other small cutter to cut the hole in the >ply >seatback to get access to the tank. Andy (or the instructions) >recommended >using a starret type cutter on a lever arm and trying to cut the hole >this >way but there seemed to be no way to get enough pressure to get the >thing to >bite. Drill a pilot hole to gauge how far in the dremmel can go before >it >touches the tank (if you drill this in the middle of the ply hole you're > >going to cut out, if you hit the tank, it doesn't matter as you're going >to >cut this bit of the tank out). > >If you're not dexterous and happy with spending several hours kneeling >on >the stbd seatback, I'd probably try someone who has done the job and see >if >they could 'give you a hand' (do the job while you make them lots of >tea). >It really, really wasn't a fun job (though it really does work very well > >indeed!). > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:45 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: 2005 List of Contributors (Update)... --> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, There seemed to a number of members that were having a problem viewing the List of Contributors this year, particularly for those using some versions of Outlook and some web-based email clients. Just to make sure that everyone is properly acknowledged for their generous support of the Lists this year, I have made a simple web page with the current contributees as of 12/06/05. This can viewed here: http://www.matronics.com/ListOfContributors2005.html Thank you to everyone that made a contribution this year. The Contribution web site with all of this year's great gifts is still open for those of you that would like to show your last minute support! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thanks again to everyone that supported the Lists this year! Matt Dralle Matronics Email Lists Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive