Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:11 AM - Fw: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (William Mills)
2. 03:45 AM - Re: Fw: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (BEBERRY@AOL.COM)
3. 05:56 AM - Re: Fw: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (Mike Gregory)
4. 07:02 AM - Re: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (Gerry Holland)
5. 07:02 AM - FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (Gerry Holland)
6. 07:17 AM - Bob Borger especially (Fergus Kyle)
7. 09:14 AM - Re: Bob Borger especially (josok)
8. 09:16 AM - Re: Bob Borger especially (Richard Holder)
9. 09:17 AM - Re: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (josok)
10. 09:44 AM - NSI CAP 140 prop issue (GLENN CROWDER)
11. 10:53 AM - Re: Bob Borger especially (Robert Borger)
12. 12:27 PM - Re: Bob Borger especially ()
13. 01:10 PM - Re: Bob Borger especially (Fergus Kyle)
14. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (Jim Brown)
15. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: Bob Borger especially (ivor.phillips)
16. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: Bob Borger especially (R.C.Harrison)
17. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (R.C.Harrison)
18. 05:26 PM - Re: Fw: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (Bbryanallsop@wmconnect.com)
19. 10:46 PM - Re: Fw: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (William Mills)
Message 1
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Subject: | Fw: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Burton" <markb@ordern.com>
Subject: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale)
>
> Hi William,
>
> Please forward this email to the Europa mailing list for me.
>
> Here's a story that is relevant to everyone who has a constant speed
> prop fitted (irrespective of prop manufacture). Sorry it's so long but
> it's worth reading.
>
> Yesterday, I went flying in G-NEAT which is fitted with an Arplast
> PV50 electric VP prop and a Smart Avionics CS controller. Before
> starting, I manually adjusted the prop pitch to be fully fine to make
> engine starting as easy as possible. Start up, warm up, taxy, engine
> checks, everything's OK, let's go flying.
>
> Accelerate, liftoff, flying. At about 50' I realise that something's
> wrong, the revs are higher than normal and in no time at all we're off
> to red line city. For a brief moment I considered landing ahead on the
> rapidly shortening runway but with little wind and near gross weight
> that really wasn't a sensible option so I reduced the throttle and
> once I was satisfied that I could actually stay in the air without
> destroying the engine, I flew a very low and slow circuit and arrived
> back on the ground much relieved. Full marks to my passenger (another
> pilot) who kept quiet and let me concentrate on the flying.
>
> So what went wrong? No doubt you have guessed. The prop had stuck in
> the fully fine pitch position. Subsequent investigation found that a
> small wire in the PV50 hub had fractured where it was soldered to the
> diodes/switches. So black mark to Arplast for not providing any form
> of strain relief on the wire joint (pity their electrics are not as
> good as their blade aerodynamics).
>
> Another factor (and this one is my fault) is that the fine pitch limit
> of the propeller was set too fine because at climb speed the red line
> was being reached at less than full throttle. With a CS propeller you
> can get away with this because even though you can start the take off
> run with the propeller too fine for flight, the CS controller will
> coarsen the pitch as you accelerate and by the time you are flying the
> pitch will be OK.
>
> So the message here is that if you have a CS prop (of any type) you
> really should make sure that the mechanical fine pitch limit is set to
> such a position that if the prop remained fully fine you could still
> use full throttle at the normal climb speed. I believe this is
> actually a requirement (JAR/PFA?) but I wonder how many of us have
> made sure that we are compliant. I can see the sense in it
> now! Remember, no matter what prop you have fitted, it could fail at
> any time (bad wiring, brushes worn, motor shagged, controller toasted,
> finger trouble, ...)
>
> So today, I adjusted the position of the fine pitch limit switch on my
> PV50 to make it coarser. Flight testing showed that it could have been
> a little bit coarser still but the microswitch was at its limit of
> travel so it will have to do for now.
>
> One last thing, as you probably all know, I manufacture avionics and
> one of my products is a talking ASI (the SmartASS). I always use it
> for take off because it makes it very easy to maintain Vy while
> looking out the window. During my thrilling circuit yesterday, it
> helped greatly to have the airspeed called out every few seconds
> because it meant I could concentrate on flying the aircraft,
> navigating around the circuit and keeping the revs under control. My
> passenger was so impressed that after landing he immediately said he
> would buy one! That's great, but I'm not going to do any more demo
> flights like that again, even if it does guarantee a sale!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mark
>
>
> --
> 09/12/2005
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Fw: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com
Here's a story that is relevant to everyone who has a constant speed
> prop fitted (irrespective of prop manufacture). Sorry it's so long but
> it's worth reading.
>
> Yesterday, I went flying in G-NEAT which is fitted with an Arplast
> PV50 electric VP prop and a Smart Avionics CS controller.
Hi Mark - read your prop story with some interest. I have just fitted an
Arplast prop but not yet flown it. I have set the microswitch to give a min
pitch of 20 degrees. Is this about right for the Europa or have you other
ideas?
Best wishes.
Patrick
Message 3
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Subject: | Fw: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Gregory" <m.j.gregory@talk21.com>
I'm very grateful to Mark and William for helping to publicise the
consequences of failure of a variable pitch control.
I asked Francis Donaldson of the PFA for advice on the settings for VP
props, and he immediately sent me a copy of the instructions he had issued
last year in connection with a Permit to Test. In this case it was for a
Europa/Rotax/Kremen 2000 set up, but the principles would apply generally.
I have extracted the following, including some general points regarding
installation, cooling and balancing which may be helpful as guidance to
others who may not yet have reached the testing stage:
For this engine/prop installation the stops must be set so that:
a. With the propeller in fully fine, with full throttle set the engine
should not overspeed (ie not exceed 5800) when 'static' on the ground or
when climbing out at the normal climb speed for best angle of climb.
(JAR-VLA 33 (c)(i) refers). We recommend it is set up so that it cannot
exceed 5800 rpm, at full throttle, at a climb speed less than 80 kts.
b. With the propeller pitch in fully coarse, during a glide at Vne with
throttle closed (provided this has no detrimental effect on the engine) the
engine must not exceed 110% of the maximum permitted continuous speed, ie
1.1 x 5500 = 6050 rpm (JAR-VLA 33 (c)(II) refers).
c. With the propeller pitch fully coarse, the aeroplane must demonstrate an
ability to safely go-around, flaps and undercarriage down, and provide a
positive rate of climb,(300 ft/min) with the aeroplane at max gross weight,
under ISA conditions.
This latter is a PFA-imposed requirement which is in recognition of the fact
that this VP propeller has a relatively crude pitch changing control system
in which the reliability of the pitch change system has yet to be
satisfactorily proven in service.
The propeller pitch control must be clearly identified as to function and
sense, and clearly distinguished from the other cockpit controls to avoid
any possibility of confusion. Do not put it directly alongside the pitch
trim switch for example. JAR-VLA 781 requires that propeller controls should
be orientated such that forward motion acts to increase engine rpm ie to
reduce propeller pitch. Ideally the switch should be characteristically
different in shape to the switches for other equipment.
You will need to check not only that the propeller gives satisfactory climb
and cruise performance but also that the engine cooling is not adversely
effected. The cooling may be influenced due to the load applied to the
engine by the prop being different. The VP prop allows the engine to produce
more power, in doing so it creates more waste heat.
The cooling may also be affected by the airflow around the propeller hub and
spinner, particularly if the cooling air intakes are in this area. Removal
of a spinner can upset the airflow, as can a propeller with a large hub or
round shank blade roots which can effectively block the engine cooling inlet
airflow.
You must also check for signs of vibration or buffetting throughout the rpm
range and in all phases of ground running as well as in flight. This may may
result if the natural frequency of vibration of the engine on its mount
rubbers, or the tail surfaces or fuselage, or of the engine/gearbox coupling
should happen to couple in an unfortunate way with the resonant frequency of
the propeller blades in bending, or the aerodynamic buffet coming from the
slipstream. It may also indicate that the propeller (or possibly the
spinner) is out of track or out of balance. Good results have been reported
from dynamically balancing propellers on Europas, at least one balancing
company advertises in 'Popular Flying'.
Fly safely
Mike
Europa Club Safety Officer
safety@europaclub.org.uk
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gholland@gemini-resourcing.com>
> So all said, I do not know what Mark is doing flying an A/C in an un
> airworthy state. Taking all into account I think he would do well to keep
> his mouth shut and get his prop fixed and signed for properly.
Some real encouragement to share bad experiences that could make us all
safety aware! Thank god burning at the stake has been abandoned...physically
if not verbally at least.
Best wishes to all at this obviously charitable time!
BTW. Mark... Thank you for pointing out this occurrence.
Gerry Holland
Still learning every day and thankful to those who share their learning too!
Message 5
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Subject: | FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gholland@gemini-resourcing.com>
As this subject is being shared with all and sundry.
Here is another angle from another Europa Club Member.
Not me I hasten to add! and not conducive either to sharing mistakes or
errors.
Gerry Holland
> I have to say that the PFA are quite clear on this subject and do and always
> have very firmly insisted on the fine pitch stop being set such that engine
> max RPM cannot be exceeded up to climb speed even with the throttle wide
> open.
>
> If (as should have been the case) Mark obtained mod permission to fit this
> C/S prop, then he would have been informed by Francis and his inspector
> would have had to sign to this effect. There are other requirements also,
> including ability to achieve 300 ft/min climb after and aborted landing with
> the prop in full coarse.
>
> So all said, I do not know what Mark is doing flying an A/C in an un
> airworthy state. Taking all into account I think he would do well to keep
> his mouth shut and get his prop fixed and signed for properly.
> PS I am sure Francis will now be checking up on whoever fitted the prop!
Message 6
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Subject: | Bob Borger especially |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
......but not exclusively...........
Bob,
Thank you again for offering photos to chase down the brake line
connector. HOWEVER, there I am, lying on my back under the beast, cutting
the safety wire to free up the brake slave cylinder, cursing my luck,
skinning my knuckles and punctruing bits of this and that with the remnants
of safety wire.............only to loosen the brake cylinder to permit
rotating of the ell connector (so's I can hook up the brake line). Are you
with me?
All that done and I start screwing in the ell. Your photo 133 of
187 in your album shows a perfect attachment. MINE tightens the ell into the
cylinder body exactly 180 degrees out of whack. Can I gronch the little
B******r around to the forward position thus risking a snapped ell ( and the
nearest next one in UK)? ....or can I fashion a washer from the extra nut
which came with the ell so as to unscrew 180 degres and tighten up the nut?
basically how did you (or any other reader!) tighten up the brakeline ell so
that it points forward to accept the brakeline?
Kindest regards to all on board for the Christmas season.
Ferg
A064
lying here waiting, waiting................ I think the furnace just quit.
Message 7
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Subject: | RE: Bob Borger especially |
0.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty
--> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Hi Ferg,
What i did was use some Locktite 577, a thread sealant suitable for gas, oil and
water. This hardens in 24 hrs. Turned it by hand to almost the right position,
and carefully with some pliers to do the last. System is filled and does not
leak a drop. (Now waiting until somebody tells me it is not suitable for brake
fluid :-)
Kind regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Bob Borger especially |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle"
> <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
> ......but not exclusively........... Bob, Thank you
> again for offering photos to chase down the brake line
> connector. HOWEVER, there I am, lying on my back under
> the beast, cutting the safety wire to free up the brake
> slave cylinder, cursing my luck, skinning my knuckles
> and punctruing bits of this and that with the remnants
> of safety wire.............only to loosen the brake
> cylinder to permit rotating of the ell connector (so's
> I can hook up the brake line). Are you with me? All
> that done and I start screwing in the ell. Your photo
> 133 of 187 in your album shows a perfect attachment.
> MINE tightens the ell into the cylinder body exactly
> 180 degrees out of whack. Can I gronch the little
> B******r around to the forward position thus risking a
> snapped ell ( and the nearest next one in UK)? ....or
> can I fashion a washer from the extra nut which came
> with the ell so as to unscrew 180 degres and tighten up
> the nut? basically how did you (or any other reader!)
> tighten up the brakeline ell so that it points forward
> to accept the brakeline? Kindest regards to all on
> board for the Christmas season. Ferg A064 lying here
> waiting, waiting................ I think the furnace
> just quit.
If you cover the (male) thread with PTFE tape. plenty of
it, the thread might go in 180 degrees less.
Richard
Message 9
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Subject: | RE: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
0.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty
--> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Thanks for the sharing of the experience. Having heard of a cs controller that
allows revers pitch i am wondering now how unsafe this would be. On the other
hand, i don't think Mike would have continued his take off with a prop in reverse
pitch!
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
Message 10
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Subject: | NSI CAP 140 prop issue |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
I ran into the same situation with my earlier NSI CAP 140 prop with the
wires going
into the hub. No inflight problem but found one of the wires had almost
worn thru.
There were/are some fairly sharp edges where the wires feed in and no heat
shrink protection. I radiused the sharp corners and added a ton of heat
shrink on the
wires to prevent chafing, then potted the wires with Goop so they coudn't
flex.
Glenn
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Bob Borger especially |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
Ferg,
WRT -
"MINE tightens the ell into the cylinder body exactly 180 degrees out
of whack. Can I gronch the little B******r around to the forward
position thus risking a snapped ell ( and the nearest next one in
UK)? ....or can I fashion a washer from the extra nut which came with
the ell so as to unscrew 180 degres and tighten up the nut? basically
how did you (or any other reader!) tighten up the brakeline ell so
that it points forward to accept the brakeline?"
My sympathies on the removal of the safety wire and brake caliper
assembly. I fear that I shall have to do the same to remove the
wheel so I can get in and talcum powder the inner tube before I pump
it up to full pressure.
I just returned from examining the brake assembly on N914XL. I was
pondering exactly how I was able to get the "L" pointed in the right
direction. Unfortunately, I have slept several times since then and
don't have a specific recollection.
Since I believe we are working with NPT type threads (these are
tapered pipe threads), I don't think that you can back them out and
apply a washer to get it into position. I see two choices: 1. Apply
a wrench to get the needed 180 degrees and hope it doesn't snap off
at 175 degrees (perhaps some teflon pipe thread sealant might help
here), or, 2. Back it out, apply a turn or two of teflon tape to the
threads of the "L" and see if that will allow you to come up tighter
sooner, perhaps close to the needed position.
If I am incorrect about the threads and they are not NPT, then a
washer 1/2 the thickness of the thread pitch might get you what you
want. But, I really don't see a shoulder on the threads for that
washer to come up against. More reason to think these may be NPT
threads.
In any case, I am open to other builders suggestions on this point.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in with Singleton
Mod, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing
incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done, baggage bay
in. Completing the firewall-aft fuel system and fitting the
instrument panel. Working in - 24 Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical,
28 Flaps, 29 Main Gear, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35
Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from
Oregon Aero. Preparing ROTAX 914 for installation.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Bob Borger especially |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
"L" pointed in the right direction"
I have same problem on my Mono. I will apply Redux as a sealant. I checked
and it is safe for DOT 5, I am not sure about DOT 3 or 4 or other types of
Brake Fluid.
Ron Parigoris
Message 13
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"Robert Borger" <rlborger@mac.com>
Subject: | Re: Bob Borger especially |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Bob, Richard, Jos et al,
Thanks for the quick reply (I finally got up for lunch).
I Googled the loctite outfit and stumbled on Loctite 243 data
sheet about the same time I fell upon a bottle of the same in my kit of
bits. the page you may want to peruse (Jos) is:
http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/243-EN.PDF
It especially advertises its resistance to brake fluid, so am
daubing onto the ell threads and praying slightly. I'l give it a couple of
days to find itself, but believe in time it will prove worthy.
I appreciate the value of this list and the friends it coughs
up!
Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, etc.
Ferg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Borger" <rlborger@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Bob Borger especially
| Ferg,
|
| WRT -
|
| "MINE tightens the ell into the cylinder body exactly 180 degrees out
| of whack. Can I gronch the little B******r around to the forward
| position thus risking a snapped ell ( and the nearest next one in
| UK)? ....or can I fashion a washer from the extra nut which came with
| the ell so as to unscrew 180 degres and tighten up the nut? basically
| how did you (or any other reader!) tighten up the brakeline ell so
| that it points forward to accept the brakeline?"
|
| My sympathies on the removal of the safety wire and brake caliper
| assembly. I fear that I shall have to do the same to remove the
| wheel so I can get in and talcum powder the inner tube before I pump
| it up to full pressure.
|
| I just returned from examining the brake assembly on N914XL. I was
| pondering exactly how I was able to get the "L" pointed in the right
| direction. Unfortunately, I have slept several times since then and
| don't have a specific recollection.
|
| Since I believe we are working with NPT type threads (these are
| tapered pipe threads), I don't think that you can back them out and
| apply a washer to get it into position. I see two choices: 1. Apply
| a wrench to get the needed 180 degrees and hope it doesn't snap off
| at 175 degrees (perhaps some teflon pipe thread sealant might help
| here), or, 2. Back it out, apply a turn or two of teflon tape to the
| threads of the "L" and see if that will allow you to come up tighter
| sooner, perhaps close to the needed position.
|
| If I am incorrect about the threads and they are not NPT, then a
| washer 1/2 the thickness of the thread pitch might get you what you
| want. But, I really don't see a shoulder on the threads for that
| washer to come up against. More reason to think these may be NPT
| threads.
|
| In any case, I am open to other builders suggestions on this point.
|
| Good building and great flying,
| Bob Borger
| Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
| http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
| (85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
| system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in with Singleton
| Mod, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing
| incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done, baggage bay
| in. Completing the firewall-aft fuel system and fitting the
| instrument panel. Working in - 24 Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical,
| 28 Flaps, 29 Main Gear, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35
| Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from
| Oregon Aero. Preparing ROTAX 914 for installation.
| 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
| Corinth, TX 76208
| Home: 940-497-2123
| Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: RE: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown <acrojim@cfl.rr.com>
The reverse pitch props are usually installed on float equipped aircraft to help
with docking. They do have some sort of a lock out to keep such a thing from
occurring.
Jim Brown
joss wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
>
> Thanks for the sharing of the experience. Having heard of a cs controller that
allows revers pitch i am wondering now how unsafe this would be. On the other
hand, i don't think Mike would have continued his take off with a prop in reverse
pitch!
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
> ----------------
> Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: RE: Bob Borger especially |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
I used exactly the same on my pipe fittings, All Metal with DOT5.1 Glycol
base Brake fluid, Been Working fine for the last year, No leaks and
fittings in the right place
regards
Ivor Phillips
>
> What i did was use some Locktite 577, a thread sealant suitable for gas,
> oil and water. This hardens in 24 hrs. Turned it by hand to almost the
> right position, and carefully with some pliers to do the last. System is
> filled and does not leak a drop. (Now waiting until somebody tells me it
> is not suitable for brake fluid :-)
Message 16
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Subject: | RE: Bob Borger especially |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Ferg/all
I researched an equivalent swivel unit tighten it up with ptfe tape and
it looks in any direction you wish !
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of josok
Subject: Europa-List: RE: Bob Borger especially
--> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Hi Ferg,
What i did was use some Locktite 577, a thread sealant suitable for gas,
oil and water. This hardens in 24 hrs. Turned it by hand to almost the
right position, and carefully with some pliers to do the last. System is
filled and does not leak a drop. (Now waiting until somebody tells me it
is not suitable for brake fluid :-)
Kind regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
Message 17
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Subject: | RE: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! MT Propellers told me that "Beta Mode" couldn't be done with
electric motored CS props only hydraulic can be made fail safe.
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale)
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown <acrojim@cfl.rr.com>
The reverse pitch props are usually installed on float equipped aircraft
to help with docking. They do have some sort of a lock out to keep such
a thing from occurring.
Jim Brown
joss wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
>
> Thanks for the sharing of the experience. Having heard of a cs
controller that allows revers pitch i am wondering now how unsafe this
would be. On the other hand, i don't think Mike would have continued his
take off with a prop in reverse pitch!
>
> Regards,
>
> Jos Okhuijsen
> ----------------
> Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Fw: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Bbryanallsop@wmconnect.com
Hi all,
Mike said,
< I asked Francis Donaldson of the PFA for advice on the settings for VP
props, and he immediately sent me a copy of the instructions he had issued
last year in connection with a Permit to Test. In this case it was for a
Europa/Rotax/Kremen 2000 set up>
I think it must have been my Woodcomp CS 2000 installation on G BYSA that
F.D. contrived these instructions for. At the time I cursed about the delay, and
the extent of the testing required, but I believed them to be common for all
CS props. He insisted that the prop could not allow the engine to over rev in
the climb state even at its' finest setting. In fact in the variable pitch mode
the prop can be made to go finer than the finest constant speed setting. It
is the finest setting in that VP mode that the engine speed cannot not be
allowed to exceed the limit.
I did find the dive to max knots with the pitch set to course and the engine
idling, an interesting experience. You have to dive very very steeply,
monitor the airspeed, and note the engine revs with the ground coming up at you
fast. As I recall, the revs never got anywhere near the max, so I am confident
the
my engine will not over rev in a dive. If it does, I don't want to be in it.
Has anyone else done this test with a Woodcomp? If so, did they experience
the same?
Cheers Bryan Allsop
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Subject: | Re: Fw: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
Bryan,
I had exactly the same test regime for the Arplast PV50 in 2000 as for the
Woodcomp SR 2000 in 2004. Both included the over-spending in fine, the
positive rate of climb in coarse and the VNE dive. I assumed this testing
was common to all VP props, whether manual VP, or automatic CS. The results
in the dive were about the same for both props, if I can remember correctly.
I had my PV 50 (manual VP prop) get stuck in the fully coarse setting during
a flight, owing to a failed relay, but you just have to cope with each
problem to the best of your ability, in the same way as you have to cope
with the situation if the engine were to stop. The limit switch settings in
the PV 50 can also creep over time. That has happened to mine.
I am very saddened by the comments made by "another Europa Club Member"
about Mark's experience, as reported by Gerry. I thought everyone realised
that mechanical, electrical and electronic components can fail at any time
without notice, when taking off, cruising, or landing. There is nothing you
can do to stop an aircraft from becoming U/S in flight. I consider Mark
handled the situation in a very professional manner, and he should be
congratulated for landing his aircraft safely and sharing his experience
with us all.
Best wishes for a happy Christmas to all,
William
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <Bbryanallsop@wmconnect.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale)
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Bbryanallsop@wmconnect.com
>
> Hi all,
>
> Mike said,
>
> < I asked Francis Donaldson of the PFA for advice on the settings for VP
> props, and he immediately sent me a copy of the instructions he had issued
> last year in connection with a Permit to Test. In this case it was for a
> Europa/Rotax/Kremen 2000 set up>
>
> I think it must have been my Woodcomp CS 2000 installation on G BYSA that
> F.D. contrived these instructions for. At the time I cursed about the
> delay, and
> the extent of the testing required, but I believed them to be common for
> all
> CS props. He insisted that the prop could not allow the engine to over rev
> in
> the climb state even at its' finest setting. In fact in the variable pitch
> mode
> the prop can be made to go finer than the finest constant speed setting.
> It
> is the finest setting in that VP mode that the engine speed cannot not be
> allowed to exceed the limit.
>
> I did find the dive to max knots with the pitch set to course and the
> engine
> idling, an interesting experience. You have to dive very very steeply,
> monitor the airspeed, and note the engine revs with the ground coming up
> at you
> fast. As I recall, the revs never got anywhere near the max, so I am
> confident the
> my engine will not over rev in a dive. If it does, I don't want to be in
> it.
>
> Has anyone else done this test with a Woodcomp? If so, did they experience
> the same?
>
> Cheers Bryan Allsop
>
>
> --
> 14/12/2005
>
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