Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:52 AM - FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (Mike Gregory)
2. 10:46 AM - Re: FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (Mike Parkin)
3. 11:14 AM - Re: FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (Trevpond@aol.com)
4. 12:10 PM - Re: FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (rmrrick)
5. 01:35 PM - Re: FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (Mike Parkin)
6. 03:17 PM - Re: FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) (rmrrick)
7. 06:21 PM - UV Smooth prime ()
8. 07:05 PM - Re: UV Smooth prime (Michael Grass)
9. 07:48 PM - Fuel consumption - Cold day (Paul McAllister)
10. 07:48 PM - Vertical Card Compass (Paul McAllister)
11. 08:02 PM - Re: UV Smooth prime (Bbryanallsop@wmconnect.com)
12. 10:06 PM - Re: Fuel consumption - Cold day (R.C.Harrison)
13. 10:27 PM - Re: Vertical Card Compass (Cliff Shaw)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Gregory" <m.j.gregory@talk21.com>
I had been concerned to find out why the limit switches on Mark's aircraft
had not been in the correct position to prevent the engine over-speeding on
takeoff when the connection to the electric pitch-adjustment motor failed
after he'd left it at fully fine for starting. Mark has responded as
follows to my points (marked >) and I have accepted his invitation to
publish his reply verbatim on the list to complete the picture. Once again,
I'm grateful to Mark for "baring his chest" on this incident.
Mike
Europa Club Safety Officer
safety@europaclub.org.uk
Hello Mike,
> I'm not sure what you have to reproach yourself with, unless there was
some requirement (e.g. at Annual) for you to check the fine pitch stop
subsequent to the original installation flight test and sign off for the
permit that you failed to carry out.
All I can do is explain how it all happened. You as a safety officer will
recognise that as it is often the case, it took a sequence events to cause
the end result.
Back in 2001, I fitted my first PV50. I carried out all the adjustments and
flight tests required by the PFA. It is worth noting that to obtain an
acceptable fine pitch limit position I had to round the corner on the small
piece of brass that secures the fine limit microswitch so that it could
travel another 1/2 mm or so in its adjustment slot. Without that tiny mod,
the range of adjustment was too small.
Everything was fine for a couple of years until I foolishly ground looped
G-NEAT and comprehensively destroyed the PV50. So a new PV50 was obtained
and hung on the front. By then, I had forgotten about having to mod the
limit switch securing block and so I simply put the switches in
approximately the right positions and started ground testing. As you know,
the final positions can only be determined by flight testing.
Once flight testing started, I discovered that my brand new PV50 had a
problem in that the pitch change motor had an intermittent fault and so the
motor was swapped. After that, the normal PFA flight test was carried out
but not the VP prop test that we have been discussing. I can't say why I
didn't do the VP prop test at that time, it probably got forgotten due to
the hassle of the broken pitch motor. I certainly didn't deliberately avoid
doing it. I suppose my inspector could have checked whether I had done it or
not but, really, he had done his part
in insuring that the aircraft was airworthy following the repairs needed
after the ground loop and left it to me to carry out the flight testing.
I claim full responsibility for the limit being incorrect.
Incidentally, my CS controller has a "soft fine pitch limit" that stops the
pitch reducing below a preset point. This means that unless, I deliberately
reduced the pitch by using the manual control, it would not normally be
actually at the hard limit during take off. The other day, because it is
winter and I have always had problems starting my engine in winter, I
manually reduced the pitch to the hard limit. If I had remembered to coarsen
the pitch again before take off as I often do, the flight would have been
much less scary.
> When I spoke to Pete yesterday he was surprised that there was not enough
adjustment on your fine pitch stop to achieve the ideal setting ~ he
expected there to be more than enough to meet the requirement.
On the 2 PV50s that I have have had experience with, neither have provided
sufficient adjustment. In fact, they were dispatched from the factory with
the limit switches set to completely unrealistic positions. But hell, they
are French, so perhaps that is to be expected.
> What is of concern to me (and would no doubt exercise Francis) is why
there was any significant change in the setting from your original setup,
assuming no disturbance/ damage. Is there a case for calling up a periodic
check for this particular propeller, or indeed for all VP props?
No, the setting didn't change over time so I don't believe that it is an
issue. Having said that, when I carry out my annual, I always check that the
switches have not moved as a matter of course.
> From Francis's reply to my message of yesterday afternoon (copied to Mark)
I would not expect him to be in "punishment" mode in respect of your
incident.
Well that's nice to know. I shall, of course, be shortly providing FD with
the explanation given above along with a new VP prop flight test report.
> Thanks again for your full and frank disclosure ~ I've already had
somebody e-mail me direct with a query about his Arplast propeller.
Overall, I do not believe that the Arplast is a bad product. Its weakest
point is the pitch motor which has a poor track record (they tend to burn
out rather too easily (that's another story)). Also, their wiring could be
better. To compensate, the hub is OK and the blades are very good indeed. I
would still choose an Arplast instead of an Airmaster any day.
Finally, I have no problem at all with anyone discussing these issues either
privately or publicly but it would be more polite if they could at least
take the time to learn the facts before making pronouncements about what I
or my inspector may or may not have done.
Feel free to send verbatim copies of this email to anyone you wish
(including the Europa list if you feel that is appropriate).
Regards,
Mark
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
> On the 2 PV50s that I have have had experience with, neither have provided
> sufficient adjustment. In fact, they were dispatched from the factory with
> the limit switches set to completely unrealistic positions. But hell, they
> are French, so perhaps that is to be expected.
>
> Overall, I do not believe that the Arplast is a bad product. Its weakest
> point is the pitch motor which has a poor track record (they tend to burn
> out rather too easily (that's another story)). Also, their wiring could be
> better. To compensate, the hub is OK and the blades are very good indeed.
> I
> would still choose an Arplast instead of an Airmaster any day.
>
You have never owned an Airmaster???? - But you would still choose an
Arplast over an Airmaster -----the mind boggles.
MP
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Trevpond@aol.com
In a message dated 18/12/2005 18:52:26 GMT Standard Time,
mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com writes:
On the 2 PV50s that I have have had experience with, neither have provided
> sufficient adjustment. In fact, they were dispatched from the factory with
> the limit switches set to completely unrealistic positions. But hell, they
> are French, so perhaps that is to be expected.
>
> Overall, I do not believe that the Arplast is a bad product. Its weakest
> point is the pitch motor which has a poor track record (they tend to burn
> out rather too easily (that's another story)). Also, their wiring could be
> better. To compensate, the hub is OK and the blades are very good indeed.
> I
> would still choose an Arplast instead of an Airmaster any day.
>
You have never owned an Airmaster???? - But you would still choose an
Arplast over an Airmaster -----the mind boggles.
MP
Here Here Mike!!!
TP
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: rmrrick <rmrrick@aol.com>
Dear Mike
I'm sorry that your mind boggles. I have chosen a 912S, having never
having owned a Subaru for example, but I would choose a Rota x again for
what I consider to be good reasons having done a little research. Is
this illogical?
All the best and a very happy Xmas to one and all.
Rick Morris
G-RIKS 912S Tri gear (Arplast PV50).
>
>You have never owned an Airmaster???? - But you would still choose an
>Arplast over an Airmaster -----the mind boggles.
>
>MP
>
>
>
>
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
Yes, but I wouldn't choose a Rotax again if it had a known list of
weaknesses - while at the same time the Subaru was free of similar
weaknesses.
Is that illogical?
LSD is a feature here - not the hallucogenic type.
And a Merry Christmas to all.
MP
----- Original Message -----
From: "rmrrick" <rmrrick@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale)
> --> Europa-List message posted by: rmrrick <rmrrick@aol.com>
>
> Dear Mike
>
> I'm sorry that your mind boggles. I have chosen a 912S, having never
> having owned a Subaru for example, but I would choose a Rota x again for
> what I consider to be good reasons having done a little research. Is
> this illogical?
>
> All the best and a very happy Xmas to one and all.
>
> Rick Morris
>
> G-RIKS 912S Tri gear (Arplast PV50).
>
>>
>>You have never owned an Airmaster???? - But you would still choose an
>>Arplast over an Airmaster -----the mind boggles.
>>
>>MP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: rmrrick <rmrrick@aol.com>
mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
>
>Yes, but I wouldn't choose a Rotax again if it had a known list of
>weaknesses - while at the same time the Subaru was free of similar
>weaknesses.
>
>Is that illogical?
>
>LSD is a feature here - not the hallucogenic type.
>
>And a Merry Christmas to all.
>
>MP
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "rmrrick" <rmrrick@aol.com>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: FW: CS Prop Failure (a cautionary tale)
>
>
>
>
>>--> Europa-List message posted by: rmrrick <rmrrick@aol.com>
>>
>>Dear Mike
>>
>>I'm sorry that your mind boggles. I have chosen a 912S, having never
>>having owned a Subaru for example, but I would choose a Rota x again for
>>what I consider to be good reasons having done a little research. Is
>>this illogical?
>>
>>All the best and a very happy Xmas to one and all.
>>
>>Rick Morris
>>
>>G-RIKS 912S Tri gear (Arplast PV50).
>>
>>
>>
>>>You have never owned an Airmaster???? - But you would still choose an
>>>Arplast over an Airmaster -----the mind boggles.
>>>
>>>MP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
The initial cost, blade effiency and geographic support are three
negatives in my mind......
Either way no one should accuse Mark, of all people, of not having
carefully considered his decision.
Rick
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
Hi Folks
An Xmas present for some one! I have a gallon of Poly Fiber uv Smoothe
Prime free to the first that responds and will pay for the packaging and
shipping. Probably best in the US.
It is unopened and comes with the catalyst.
Merry holiday.
Tom (XS mono that is getting really dangerous to becoming airborne.)
--
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: UV Smooth prime |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net>
I would be delighted to receive that early Xmas gift
Michael Grass
A266 Trigear
----- Original Message -----
From: <beecho@beecho.org>
Subject: Europa-List: UV Smooth prime
> --> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
>
> Hi Folks
>
> An Xmas present for some one! I have a gallon of Poly Fiber uv Smoothe
> Prime free to the first that responds and will pay for the packaging and
> shipping. Probably best in the US.
>
> It is unopened and comes with the catalyst.
>
> Merry holiday.
>
> Tom (XS mono that is getting really dangerous to becoming airborne.)
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Fuel consumption - Cold day |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
For some reason that is hard to explain, I took my airplane out flying today
when it was really, really cold. I guess I hadn't had a "Europa fix" for 3
weeks.
Anyhow, the OAT was -13 centigrade and I noticed that my fuel burn for the
same power settings was significantly lower. At 28" @ 5000 I usually run at
5 US gallons an hour.
Today it was 4.2 I was wondering what was the major contributing factor.
For example, given that it was so cold, would the fuel density been
significantly different and I was still burning at the same pounds / per
hour rate, or was the dense air allowing the propeller / airfoil to be that
much more efficient ?
Second question for those that are more familiar with Bing carburetors.
When I reduce power from around 28" to 23 " the EGT's spike. If I do it too
quickly then the will hit the maximum allowable temperatures. Why is this,
and is there an adjustment that I can make ?
Paul
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Vertical Card Compass |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone had put in a vertical card compass in there panel
and been able to successfully adjust the offsets.
Paul
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: UV Smooth prime |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Bbryanallsop@wmconnect.com
In a message dated 12/18/2005 9:44:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
beecho@beecho.org writes:
> XS mono that is getting really dangerous to becoming airborne.)
>
> Really, I must protest! Mono's are really friendly little things. They do
> not harm a soul until the pilot gets in.
>
> Happy Christmas.
>
> Bryan Allsop (mono owner)
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Fuel consumption - Cold day |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi!Paul
During my quest for improved fuel usage on my Jabiru 3300 I used to
blast around at generally 2,400 RPM with manifold pressure at approx. "
squared " (the general rule of thumb) at 24" at around 120 kts cruise
using about 6 Imp. Gallons per hour. I now have generally 5 Imp Gallons
per hour with 2,600RPM and manifold pressure of 20" but 110 kts cruise.
I can often improve on that but only by flying high. The colder ambient
temperatures allow a more efficient mix combination so you save fuel and
increase power
Hence Intercooler Technology.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
McAllister
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel consumption - Cold day
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
<paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
For some reason that is hard to explain, I took my airplane out flying
today
when it was really, really cold. I guess I hadn't had a "Europa fix"
for 3
weeks.
Anyhow, the OAT was -13 centigrade and I noticed that my fuel burn for
the
same power settings was significantly lower. At 28" @ 5000 I usually
run at
5 US gallons an hour.
Today it was 4.2 I was wondering what was the major contributing
factor.
For example, given that it was so cold, would the fuel density been
significantly different and I was still burning at the same pounds / per
hour rate, or was the dense air allowing the propeller / airfoil to be
that
much more efficient ?
Second question for those that are more familiar with Bing carburetors.
When I reduce power from around 28" to 23 " the EGT's spike. If I do it
too
quickly then the will hit the maximum allowable temperatures. Why is
this,
and is there an adjustment that I can make ?
Paul
Message 13
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Vertical Card Compass |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Paul
Bob and I could NOT get his to work well. I put in a regular compass mounted to
the overhead.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul McAllister
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 7:47 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Vertical Card Compass
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone had put in a vertical card compass in there panel
and been able to successfully adjust the offsets.
Paul
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|