Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:01 PM - Ampreg 20 (Flying Farmer)
2. 12:28 PM - Europa-list: fitting gascolator (Rmi Guerner)
3. 12:54 PM - Re: Ampreg 20 (Jeremy Davey)
4. 01:46 PM - Re: Ampreg 20 (Jeff B)
5. 02:17 PM - Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator (Cliff Shaw)
6. 02:25 PM - Re: Ampreg 20 (ivor.phillips)
7. 02:45 PM - Re: Fuel Filler hose (Peter Rees)
8. 02:54 PM - Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator (karelvranken)
9. 02:58 PM - Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator (karelvranken)
10. 04:26 PM - Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator (Garry)
11. 06:28 PM - Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator (SPurpura@AOL.COM)
Message 1
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0.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Flying Farmer" <funnyphone@btinternet.com>
Hi All,
Im looking for some advice on the state of my Ampreg 20 hardener, been a new builder
and getting ready for my very first lay-up of the rudder. The hardener seems
to have become contaminated in my resin pump. It has turned brown in colour
and I fear it is no good for use. The expiry date is 2007. It turned in colour
in the second hand resin pump, I did clean it out the best I could but fear
the contamination has come from within the pump. I did make my Europa chock
with this resin and seems OK ( PFA Inspector still to see it)
Has anyone ells had the same problem and what do you advise?
Thank you in advance
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
Message 2
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| Subject: | Europa-list: fitting gascolator |
From: "R\351mi Guerner" <ai...
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rmi Guerner" <air.guerner@wanadoo.fr>
William wrote:=E2=80=9D I was going to fit a mini Andair a couple of years ago,
when they were all
the rage, but when I talked to Nev, he persuaded me not to bother because he
considered the twin filters was a better system, apart from the water
aspect=E2=80=9D.
I am surprised to read this while Europas keep force-landing or crashing due to
fuel filter contamination (read the article on the forced landing of OY-ODA
in Europa Flyer # 46)
A fuel filter should have at least:
- a screen area large enough for the fuel flow.
- a drain valve for draining the contaminants (water and solid stuff)
before each day of flight.
The filters supplied by Europa Aircraft have none of those characteristics and
are therefore potentially dangerous. This is especially true as most of us are
using Mogas which is more likely to be contaminated, even when using a filtering
funnel at every fill up. The dual filter arrangement is a big improvement
but is not fully satisfactory. Keep in mind that the filter has the most chance
to clog and the engine to stop, when the fuel flow is maximum, i.e. during
the take off phase. I believe you would crash before having time to switch to
the other filter, should that happen to you.
When I was flying with the Rotax 914, I experienced several engine stoppages, at
cruise, due to filter contamination. Fortunately, thanks for the dual filter
arrangement, the engine resumed running when the second fuel pump was turned
on, and I managed to land safely on an airport every time. Some others have not
been as lucky.
Replacing the dual in-line filters by dual gascolators was the first modification
I made to my aircraft.
When I installed the 912S, I removed 1 of them. 914 owners have to consider that
the fuel flow through the filter can be as much as 4 to 5 times the fuel consumption
of the engine, due to the huge flow returned back to the tank. Therefore
the filter(s) on 914 installation must be designed as for a 500 HP engine!
My recommendation is to throw away the supplied in-line filters and use one (or
two) gascolators big enough for the task. There are plenty of sources on the
market. A gascolator will also be a lot easier to service than the in-line filters.
If you are using the Andair GAS375, make sure you have the new filter screen
which is has a lot bigger screen area than the original model.
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 288 hours on a 914 + 89 hours since fitted with
the 912S.
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <europaflyer_3@msn.com>
Sounds like oxidation to me. Your best bet is to give SP Systems a call -
they make Ampreg 20. Martin Armstrong on +44 (1983) 828103 is the man I've
often talked to in the past.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation."
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1430 build hours to date, build currently stalled due to house moves and
lack of workshop
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Flying Farmer
Subject: Europa-List: Ampreg 20
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Flying Farmer"
--> <funnyphone@btinternet.com>
Hi All,
Im looking for some advice on the state of my Ampreg 20 hardener, been a new
builder and getting ready for my very first lay-up of the rudder. The
hardener seems to have become contaminated in my resin pump. It has turned
brown in colour and I fear it is no good for use. The expiry date is 2007.
It turned in colour in the second hand resin pump, I did clean it out the
best I could but fear the contamination has come from within the pump. I did
make my Europa chock with this resin and seems OK ( PFA Inspector still to
see it)
Has anyone ells had the same problem and what do you advise?
Thank you in advance
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff B <topglock@cox.net>
The color change is simple oxidation, a natural occurance, once the
material is exposed to the atmosphere. If like AeroPoxy, it will not
affect the outcome. N55XS is flying with one wing in maroon epoxy and
one in clear. Haven't noticed anything coming apart, yet... ;)
Jeff - N55XS
127 hrs
Flying Farmer wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Flying Farmer" <funnyphone@btinternet.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Im looking for some advice on the state of my Ampreg 20 hardener, been a new
builder and getting ready for my very first lay-up of the rudder. The hardener
seems to have become contaminated in my resin pump. It has turned brown in colour
and I fear it is no good for use. The expiry date is 2007. It turned in colour
in the second hand resin pump, I did clean it out the best I could but fear
the contamination has come from within the pump. I did make my Europa chock
with this resin and seems OK ( PFA Inspector still to see it)
>
> Has anyone ells had the same problem and what do you advise?
>
> Thank you in advance
> ----------------
> Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
All
I fitted the Mini Gascolator GAS125 to a Rotax 912S. It works very well and has
far more capacity than the fuel pumps can demand. It is a very good water trap
and catches the very smallest of FOD that find there way into my tank. I do
not think that a larger unit is needed for this installation. Just my two cense
worth.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
PS: I wish it would stop raining :(
. Therefore the filter(s) on 914 installation must be designed as for a 500 HP
engine!
My recommendation is to throw away the supplied in-line filters and use one (or
two) gascolators big enough for the task. There are plenty of sources on the
market. A gascolator will also be a lot easier to service than the in-line filters.
If you are using the Andair GAS375, make sure you have the new filter
screen which is has a lot bigger screen area than the original model.
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
Its possible to put a floating lid on top of the Hardener to reduce the
Oxidation, It will slow it down but wont stop it altogether,
> The color change is simple oxidation, a natural occurance, once the
> material is exposed to the atmosphere.
Ivor Phillips
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Filler hose |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" <peter.rees05@ntlworld.com>
Hi Bob
You recently sent me an E-mail regarding filler hoses for a Europa classic.
Can you please let me have some details, price etc
Thanks
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Berube" <bberube@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Filler hose
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube"
> <bberube@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Peter,
> We have the aluminum elbows in stock at Flight Crafters.
> Contact me offline for information.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Berube
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Filler hose
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees"
> <peter.rees05@ntlworld.com>
>
> I seem to recall that someone had devised an aluminium replacement for the
> classic filler hose which Europa can no longer supply - Can anyone shed
> any
> light on this? I guess the only alternative (other than Europas suggestion
> to install the XS filler) is to build a filler from parts from a 'boy
> racer'
>
> car shop.
>
> Happy new year to everyone on the forum and thanks to everyone for their
> help over the last year.
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "karelvranken" <karelvranken@hotmail.com>
Bravo Remi for your courage to denounce a system that failed.
Karel Vranken
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rmi Guerner" <air.guerner@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Europa-List: Europa-list: fitting gascolator
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rmi Guerner" <air.guerner@wanadoo.fr>
>
>
> William wrote:=E2=80=9D I was going to fit a mini Andair a couple of years
> ago, when they were all
> the rage, but when I talked to Nev, he persuaded me not to bother because
> he
> considered the twin filters was a better system, apart from the water
> aspect=E2=80=9D.
>
> I am surprised to read this while Europas keep force-landing or crashing
> due to fuel filter contamination (read the article on the forced landing
> of OY-ODA in Europa Flyer # 46)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "karelvranken" <karelvranken@hotmail.com>
Well done Cliff.
Karel Vranken
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa-list: fitting gascolator
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
>
> All
>
> I fitted the Mini Gascolator GAS125 to a Rotax 912S. It works very well
> and has far more capacity than the fuel pumps can demand. It is a very
> good water trap and catches the very smallest of FOD that find there way
> into my tank. I do not think that a larger unit is needed for this
> installation. Just my two cense worth.
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" <garrys@tampabay.rr.com>
Hmmmmmmm. My experience with the two inline 914 filters has been just fine.
I changed the filters once after the first 10 hours, and then again at 175
hours. I now have 400 hours and will probably change them at my next annual
inspection. I've never had a problem. Oh, and I use mogas, unfiltered, and
I've never had any water in my tanks either.
Garry Stout
N4220S A060 Trigear 914, 400 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rmi Guerner" <air.guerner@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Europa-List: Europa-list: fitting gascolator
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rmi Guerner" <air.guerner@wanadoo.fr>
>
>
> William wrote:=E2=80=9D I was going to fit a mini Andair a couple of years
> ago, when they were all
> the rage, but when I talked to Nev, he persuaded me not to bother because
> he
> considered the twin filters was a better system, apart from the water
> aspect=E2=80=9D.
>
> I am surprised to read this while Europas keep force-landing or crashing
> due to fuel filter contamination (read the article on the forced landing
> of OY-ODA in Europa Flyer # 46)
>
> A fuel filter should have at least:
> - a screen area large enough for the fuel flow.
> - a drain valve for draining the contaminants (water and solid
> stuff) before each day of flight.
>
> The filters supplied by Europa Aircraft have none of those characteristics
> and are therefore potentially dangerous. This is especially true as most
> of us are using Mogas which is more likely to be contaminated, even when
> using a filtering funnel at every fill up. The dual filter arrangement is
> a big improvement but is not fully satisfactory. Keep in mind that the
> filter has the most chance to clog and the engine to stop, when the fuel
> flow is maximum, i.e. during the take off phase. I believe you would crash
> before having time to switch to the other filter, should that happen to
> you.
>
> When I was flying with the Rotax 914, I experienced several engine
> stoppages, at cruise, due to filter contamination. Fortunately, thanks for
> the dual filter arrangement, the engine resumed running when the second
> fuel pump was turned on, and I managed to land safely on an airport every
> time. Some others have not been as lucky.
>
> Replacing the dual in-line filters by dual gascolators was the first
> modification I made to my aircraft.
> When I installed the 912S, I removed 1 of them. 914 owners have to
> consider that the fuel flow through the filter can be as much as 4 to 5
> times the fuel consumption of the engine, due to the huge flow returned
> back to the tank. Therefore the filter(s) on 914 installation must be
> designed as for a 500 HP engine!
>
> My recommendation is to throw away the supplied in-line filters and use
> one (or two) gascolators big enough for the task. There are plenty of
> sources on the market. A gascolator will also be a lot easier to service
> than the in-line filters. If you are using the Andair GAS375, make sure
> you have the new filter screen which is has a lot bigger screen area than
> the original model.
>
> Remi Guerner
>
> F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 288 hours on a 914 + 89 hours since fitted
> with the 912S.
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator |
--> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com
I disagree that Mogas is not a clean fuel. The only place you will get dirty
fuel over in the USA would be at the airport as auto fuel retailers have a
much
cleaner product as they are held to a higer standard than the FBO retailer and
after checking your filters after using 100LL you would agree.
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