---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/05/06: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:05 AM - Fuel testing (Fergus Kyle) 2. 11:23 AM - Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator (Mike Parkin) 3. 11:59 AM - Europa-list: fitting gascolator (Rmi Guerner) 4. 12:14 PM - Rotax Engines for Sale (N914RB) 5. 12:46 PM - Europa-list: fitting gascolator (Rmi Guerner) 6. 01:56 PM - Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator (JEFF ROBERTS) 7. 03:37 PM - Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator (R.C.Harrison) 8. 03:37 PM - Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator (R.C.Harrison) 9. 11:06 PM - Re: Europa-list: fitting gascolator (Mike Parkin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:07 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Fuel testing --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Cheers, I follow the thread on gascolators and water drains with interest. Some of the solutions are insightful regarding what fuel goes through from stroage tank to engine, and some are not. However, much depends on where you get your fuel. If you're flying in the early spring in Northern Canada, you want to ask, "How long has this fuel been in your tanks?", and "when was the last aircraft fueled?" because there could be all sorts of gup in there. So one guy's advice is another's beware...... Also from having checked fuel tanks in many different machines I can swear that each needs its own routine. The Harvard requires you to lie in the dirt dripping the wing tanks, and then dripping the gascolator - one for overnight storage, the other for water in the lines (and any dirt that gets by the filters). I have both water drains for tank storage checks and gascolator for dirt in the lines. You can bet your bippy that they get checked before every first flight and whenever contaminated fuel is remotely suspected. They are also tested before every second flight - sometimes the vibration loosens hiding dirt. AND they are located not under the wings, but behind them (where I can reach them handily) so I'm not tempted to avoid looking. Yes I have the extended wire gauze gascolator cup for greater catch-itude. These are things some may not have contemplated before......? Happy Landings, Ferg A064 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:23:50 AM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa-list: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" > Hmmmmmmm. My experience with the two inline 914 filters has been just > fine. 250 hrs in and never a filter problem in G-JULZ. I echo your comments. Please let us not criticise a system that is operating successfully in dozens of aircraft because of a suspect installation/fuel supply. regards, MP ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:31 AM PST US From: "Rmi Guerner" Subject: Europa-List: Europa-list: fitting gascolator From: "R\351mi Guerner" Europa-List message posted by: "Rmi Guerner" My own experience is just the opposite. I flew my previous aircraft (a certified ROBIN with a O-360 Lycoming running exclusively on AVGAS) for 10 years and 800 hours, without having ever found anything in the gascolator screen. Since I fly the Europa, mainly on MOGAS, I keep finding some dirt, most of it stays in the filtering funnel, some find its way to the tank. So, better be careful and have a good filter/gascolator. Remi Guerner F-PGKL, S/N395, XS monowheel, 288 hours on a 914 + 89 hours since fitted with the 912S. --> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com I disagree that Mogas is not a clean fuel. The only place you will get dirty fuel over in the USA would be at the airport as auto fuel retailers have a much cleaner product as they are held to a higer standard than the FBO retailer and after checking your filters after using 100LL you would agree. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:43 PM PST US From: "N914RB" Subject: Europa-List: Rotax Engines for Sale --> Europa-List message posted by: "N914RB" Hi all, A few weeks ago there was a post here by Bruce about some Rotax Engines for sale. I just thought I'd let anyone interested know that there are 3- 912 and 1- 914 left. The 914 is the certified version (F) and the 912 probably are too (I forgot to ask) They been sitting around a while but most are new in the box. You'll have to sort through any factory bulletins that are needed but basically it's a significant reduction off of the Rotax new price. I have no financial stake in this; I just know how proud Rotax i$ of their engine$. The guy selling them is Dave Dent who's got 40 years engine experience and also flies a nice looking Velocity which you can see at http://www.cattoprops.com/html/velocity_xl_props.html. I found him to be a real straight shooter and he even did some checking around to keep the shipping/insurance costs down on the 914F that I bought. There's a little info on him at his former company's site: http://www.hyperspectral.com . He also worked on the Raptor built by Scaled Composites: http://www.scaled.com/projects/raptor.html. You may reach Dave at davedent@comcast.net. Anyway, caveat emptor still applies but do your research as I did and you should come out fine. This is just a heads up to those of you who might be interested. All the best and happy building/safe flying. Dan ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:46:58 PM PST US From: "Rmi Guerner" Subject: Europa-List: Europa-list: fitting gascolator From: "R\351mi Guerner" Europa-List message posted by: "Rmi Guerner" Gary Stout wrote: Hmmmmmmm. My experience with the two inline 914 filters has been just fine Gary, Obviously you belong to the majority of Europa owners who have yet to experience an engine stoppage due to fuel contamination and therefore say that the original in line filters are just fine. We had two Europa accidents here in France due to clogged filters: one killed the pilot; the other one damaged the airplane extensively and the pilot was very lucky. This is for a small fleet of 17 Europas flying in this country. So one out of ten crashed due to clogged filters ! This can happen to you! Don't take chances, upgrade your fuel system with a good gascolator. Remi Guerner F-PGKL, S/N395, XS monowheel, 288 hours on a 914 + 89 hours since fitted with the 912S. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:43 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa-list: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS I've been following this thread and I think I want to step in here. I mounted my filters under an armrest door/ cover in the tunnel just between the seats. I can open the hatch and look at the filters in flight and on pre flight instantly. My thoughts are if your engine goes silent, change to the other side of the tank as that filter should be clear. Land and replace both. I mean isn't that why we have two anyway? Jeff A258 Towing to the airport as soon as I get over this flu! > > > Gary Stout wrote: Hmmmmmmm. My experience with the two inline 914 > filters has been just fine > Gary, > Obviously you belong to the majority of Europa owners who have yet to > experience an engine stoppage due to fuel contamination and therefore > say that the original in line filters are just fine. We had two > Europa accidents here in France due to clogged filters: one killed the > pilot; the other one damaged the airplane extensively and the pilot > was very lucky. This is for a small fleet of 17 Europas flying in this > country. So one out of ten crashed due to clogged filters ! This can > happen to you! Don't take chances, upgrade your fuel system with a > good gascolator. > Remi Guerner > F-PGKL, S/N395, XS monowheel, 288 hours on a 914 + 89 hours since > fitted with > the 912S. > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:37:29 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa-list: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Well said "Rmi". I think it's rather like landing "gear up"....there's those that have and those that will!!!!!! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 c/w gascolator, water drain valves, filler gauze and tank connectors re-drilled .! -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rmi Guerner Subject: Europa-List: Europa-list: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rmi Guerner" Gary Stout wrote: Hmmmmmmm. My experience with the two inline 914 filters has been just fine Gary, Obviously you belong to the majority of Europa owners who have yet to experience an engine stoppage due to fuel contamination and therefore say that the original in line filters are just fine. We had two Europa accidents here in France due to clogged filters: one killed the pilot; the other one damaged the airplane extensively and the pilot was very lucky. This is for a small fleet of 17 Europas flying in this country. So one out of ten crashed due to clogged filters ! This can happen to you! Don't take chances, upgrade your fuel system with a good gascolator. Remi Guerner F-PGKL, S/N395, XS monowheel, 288 hours on a 914 + 89 hours since fitted with the 912S. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:37:29 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa-list: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Jeff Sorry about the 'flu. It's more topical over here! I hear your theory but it has one slight draw back..... the reserve side will attract a bigger deposit of contamination (since that side gets all the fill up fuel and the main side on the other side of the tunnel has consequently less chance of contamination.) So when you switch to the reserve side(having had the "splutters" from the main)you can bet it will be for a very short time ! Sorry guys IMHO and experience the inline filters just can not accommodate, or for that matter certainly not separate any water. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 c/w gascolator ....etc etc.! then there's the dog hairs!!!! Beat you to the punch Nev! -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa-list: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS I've been following this thread and I think I want to step in here. I mounted my filters under an armrest door/ cover in the tunnel just between the seats. I can open the hatch and look at the filters in flight and on pre flight instantly. My thoughts are if your engine goes silent, change to the other side of the tank as that filter should be clear. Land and replace both. I mean isn't that why we have two anyway? Jeff A258 Towing to the airport as soon as I get over this flu! > > > Gary Stout wrote: Hmmmmmmm. My experience with the two inline 914 > filters has been just fine > Gary, > Obviously you belong to the majority of Europa owners who have yet to > experience an engine stoppage due to fuel contamination and therefore > say that the original in line filters are just fine. We had two > Europa accidents here in France due to clogged filters: one killed the > pilot; the other one damaged the airplane extensively and the pilot > was very lucky. This is for a small fleet of 17 Europas flying in this > country. So one out of ten crashed due to clogged filters ! This can > happen to you! Don't take chances, upgrade your fuel system with a > good gascolator. > Remi Guerner > F-PGKL, S/N395, XS monowheel, 288 hours on a 914 + 89 hours since > fitted with > the 912S. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:06:37 PM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa-list: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" > I hear your theory but it has one slight draw back..... the reserve side > will attract a bigger deposit of contamination (since that side gets all > the fill up fuel and the main side on the other side of the tunnel has > consequently less chance of contamination.) So when you switch to the > reserve side(having had the "splutters" from the main)you can bet it > will be for a very short time ! > Sorry guys IMHO and experience the inline filters just can not > accommodate, or for that matter certainly not separate any water. > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 c/w gascolator ....etc etc.! > then there's the dog hairs!!!! Beat you to the punch Nev! > Bob, This seems to me to be a question of care and good practices. If one is careful to keep any rubbish out of the system during the building, and filter all fuel that goes into the tank, clogging should not be an issue. The small deposits that will accumulate overtime are adequately handled by routine filter changes. I don't think the Proline filters are intended to be water seperators - just inline filters. Of course large filters might be required if one's power unit uses a lot of fuel.(teehee!!) regards, Mike 3 German Shepherds but never a problem of doghair in the workshop.