---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/07/06: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:43 AM - Re: Re: fitting gascolator (Mike Parkin) 2. 03:03 AM - Spares (Richard Holder) 3. 03:50 AM - XS Monowheel hot cylinders? () 4. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: fitting gascolator (Garry) 5. 06:51 AM - Re: XS Monowheel hot cylinders? (Paul McAllister) 6. 07:28 AM - Re: Ampreg 20 (Flying Farmer) 7. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: fitting gascolator (James) 8. 09:57 AM - Re: Re: fitting gascolator (JEFF ROBERTS) 9. 10:24 AM - Re: Spares (Duncan McFadyean) 10. 10:26 AM - Re: Re: Ampreg 20 (Duncan McFadyean) 11. 10:46 AM - Re: Re: Ampreg 20 (Flying Farmer) 12. 11:36 AM - rotating stand (Paul Stewart) 13. 11:51 AM - Re: XS Monowheel hot cylinders? (ivor.phillips) 14. 11:51 AM - Re: Re: fitting gascolator (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 15. 12:24 PM - Re: XS Monowheel hot cylinders? (Mike Parkin) 16. 12:24 PM - Re: rotating stand (Duncan McFadyean) 17. 12:54 PM - Re: Re: Ampreg 20 (Jeremy Davey) 18. 01:24 PM - Re: Re: fitting gascolator (R.C.Harrison) 19. 01:24 PM - Re: Re: fitting gascolator (R.C.Harrison) 20. 03:18 PM - rescue service [was: Spares] (Rowland Carson) 21. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: fitting gascolator (Bryan Allsop) 22. 04:52 PM - Re: fitting gascolator (josok) 23. 06:34 PM - L.G. FRAME CRACK (SPurpura@AOL.COM) 24. 08:01 PM - Re: L.G. FRAME CRACK (Thomas Scherer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:10 AM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" > Remarkable in this discussion are the people that keep telling that their > fuel has always been clean. They probably do not need filters or > gascolators at all. Or checklists either. It's always OK eh? They probably > forget that just that one, first incident could kill them. Wrong mentality > in this hobby. > Hi Jos, Could not agree more. It is equally remarkable that so many inexperienced pilots have such strong opinions on operating a Europa long before they have built and operated one - don't you agree? kind regards, Mike ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:49 AM PST US From: Richard Holder Subject: Europa-List: Spares --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder Team Who deals with The Europa Rescue Service ? If it is Rowland please make me down as willilng to help. However - the main point of this mail is to make the following announcement. I have started to collect a few spares for my aircraft. When I go to the US (twice a year) I normally bring some stuff back. Pricing is "different" to the Europa/SkyDrive pricing :-) At present I have Oil Pressure Sender A pair of rubber carburettor mounts with the sealing rings A Ducati Rectifier/Regulator As these are spares rather than consumables I am willing to offer them to anyone who is in need and we would split the difference between the cost from the US and the cost from the UK. I would then replace. Does anyone have any ideas for other small but valuable items that I could add to the list ? For example plugs and filters would not be sensible as they are almost as much in the US as in the UK. I would also take orders for stuff like captive nuts or AN bolts, at least three weeks before a trip (next planned first week of March) Any comments or suggestions (polite only please !) Richard Holder G-OWWW High Cross ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:44 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: XS Monowheel hot cylinders? From: --> Europa-List message posted by: Those flying XS Monowheel with 914 which cylinder on each side show highest for EGT and CHT? Those flying XS Monowheel with 912S (with Rotax cooling air baffle installed) which cylinder on each side show highest for EGT and CHT? I will be monitoring just 2 cylinders for 914 XS Monowheel for CHT and EGT and would like to position sensors on the hot "SIDE" of things. Our 914 / XS Monowheel has an Airmaster, intercooler, factory recommended stainless firewall, Rotax cooling air baffle. Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:16 AM PST US From: "Garry" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" Yes, and there are those out there who install audible warning lights to tell them if their doors aren't properly latched, or their seatbelts aren't fully engaged. Probably the same ones who wear elastic waisted pants plus a belt and two pairs of suspenders. There's a difference between being reasonably careful, and being neurotic. The latter should probably stay home watching television in the safety and comfort of their couch. Kick the tires and light the fires. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" > > > >> Remarkable in this discussion are the people that keep telling that their >> fuel has always been clean. They probably do not need filters or >> gascolators at all. Or checklists either. It's always OK eh? They >> probably >> forget that just that one, first incident could kill them. Wrong >> mentality >> in this hobby. >> > > > Hi Jos, > > Could not agree more. It is equally remarkable that so many inexperienced > pilots have such strong opinions on operating a Europa long before they > have > built and operated one - don't you agree? > > kind regards, > > > Mike > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:55 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: RE: Europa-List: XS Monowheel hot cylinders? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Ron, I currently monitor the back starboard and front port. I suspect that the rear port would run hotter than the front port side, but to be honest I can't remeber why I chose to monitor the front one. Paul -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Subject: Europa-List: XS Monowheel hot cylinders? --> Europa-List message posted by: Those flying XS Monowheel with 914 which cylinder on each side show highest for EGT and CHT? Those flying XS Monowheel with 912S (with Rotax cooling air baffle installed) which cylinder on each side show highest for EGT and CHT? I will be monitoring just 2 cylinders for 914 XS Monowheel for CHT and EGT and would like to position sensors on the hot "SIDE" of things. Our 914 / XS Monowheel has an Airmaster, intercooler, factory recommended stainless firewall, Rotax cooling air baffle. Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:09 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: Ampreg 20 From: "Flying Farmer" 0.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "Flying Farmer" Jeremy, Jeff, Ivor, Thank you for your advice on the Ampreg 20 Hardener, I did ring Martin Armstrong and he had all the answers I needed in the dis-coloring of the hardener. It was really bad oxidization which had been caused from some old hardener left in the valve of the resin pump, The solution was to wash out with soapy water, then to allow to air dry, then to flush out with new resin and hardener. Martin also advised in making a floating lid to reduce the surface area in contact with the atmosphere, also suggested by Ivor (Thanks) Thanks All, Richard Wheelwright. ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:08 AM PST US From: "James" Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: "James" I guess I'll reply now that this has gotten heated. There are those that have gotten crud in those filters, and those that will. You CAN NOT clean the plastic tank out fully after drilling it. Not water or air or gasoline will dislodge all the swarf. Only time and some aerobatics seem to help dislodge the junk. If you have flown your plane since new with no crud in the filters, you are either EXTREMELY lucky or flying on borrowed time. A 914 WILL quit if the filter clogs! I have the four deadstick landings, and five precautionary landings to prove it! Water can get in the topside fillers and vents. I have one deadstick from almost three quarts in the tank to prove THAT. I switched to the reserve side to check flow and it promptly quit. Switching back to the main side did not help, seems the bing carbs won't work with just H2O filling the float bowls.;-) You need drains and a good high flow separator/filter setup. Just make sure to check the filters often. Jim T. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" Yes, and there are those out there who install audible warning lights to tell them if their doors aren't properly latched, or their seatbelts aren't fully engaged. Probably the same ones who wear elastic waisted pants plus a belt and two pairs of suspenders. There's a difference between being reasonably careful, and being neurotic. The latter should probably stay home watching television in the safety and comfort of their couch. Kick the tires and light the fires. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" > > > >> Remarkable in this discussion are the people that keep telling that >> their fuel has always been clean. They probably do not need filters >> or gascolators at all. Or checklists either. It's always OK eh? They >> probably forget that just that one, first incident could kill them. >> Wrong mentality >> in this hobby. >> > > > Hi Jos, > > Could not agree more. It is equally remarkable that so many > inexperienced pilots have such strong opinions on operating a Europa > long before they have built and operated one - don't you agree? > > kind regards, > > > Mike > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:26 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS As usual with this list these things get carried way to far past what builders need. If anything, you all are simply hurting the new builder's attitude towards weather he's made a smart purchase in the Europa. If the filters are not the way to go then would all of you that have turned to a different direction take it up with Europa! Sounds like Europa should be selling kits with gascolators instead of filters. If a builder needs help he should ask the list and hopefully get the answers needed. More and more I see this forum being used to defend ones own, or a buddy's opinion or integrity. Remember there people out here needing encouragement and help and all this arguing does is discourage the poor sap that laid down $26K for a kit with cheep inline filters. If they don't serve there intent tell Europa to quit selling them! Jeff A258 Do not archive. On Jan 7, 2006, at 11:06 AM, James wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "James" > > I guess I'll reply now that this has gotten heated. There are those > that > have gotten crud in those filters, and those that will. You CAN NOT > clean > the plastic tank out fully after drilling it. Not water or air or > gasoline > will dislodge all the swarf. Only time and some aerobatics seem to help > dislodge the junk. If you have flown your plane since new with no > crud in > the filters, you are either EXTREMELY lucky or flying on borrowed > time. A > 914 WILL quit if the filter clogs! I have the four deadstick > landings, and > five precautionary landings to prove it! Water can get in the topside > fillers and vents. I have one deadstick from almost three quarts in > the > tank to prove THAT. I switched to the reserve side to check flow and > it > promptly quit. Switching back to the main side did not help, seems > the bing > carbs won't work with just H2O filling the float bowls.;-) You need > drains > and a good high flow separator/filter setup. Just make sure to check > the > filters often. > > Jim T. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" > > Yes, and there are those out there who install audible warning lights > to > tell them if their doors aren't properly latched, or their seatbelts > aren't > fully engaged. Probably the same ones who wear elastic waisted pants > plus a > > belt and two pairs of suspenders. There's a difference between being > reasonably careful, and being neurotic. The latter should probably > stay > home watching television in the safety and comfort of their couch. > > Kick the tires and light the fires. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Parkin" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" >> >> >> >>> Remarkable in this discussion are the people that keep telling that >>> their fuel has always been clean. They probably do not need filters >>> or gascolators at all. Or checklists either. It's always OK eh? They >>> probably forget that just that one, first incident could kill them. >>> Wrong mentality >>> in this hobby. >>> >> >> >> Hi Jos, >> >> Could not agree more. It is equally remarkable that so many >> inexperienced pilots have such strong opinions on operating a Europa >> long before they have built and operated one - don't you agree? >> >> kind regards, >> >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:40 AM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Spares --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" Starter motor spragg clutch! Which is substantially cheaper in the US, but equally a substantial investment to have sitting on a shelf (and assuming that Rotax don't find a better item in the interim). Duncan McF do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holder" Subject: Europa-List: Spares > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder > > Team > > Who deals with The Europa Rescue Service ? If it is > Rowland please make me down as willilng to help. > > However - the main point of this mail is to make the > following announcement. > > I have started to collect a few spares for my aircraft. > When I go to the US (twice a year) I normally bring some > stuff back. Pricing is "different" to the Europa/SkyDrive > pricing :-) > > At present I have > > Oil Pressure Sender > A pair of rubber carburettor mounts with the sealing rings > A Ducati Rectifier/Regulator > > As these are spares rather than consumables I am willing > to offer them to anyone who is in need and we would split > the difference between the cost from the US and the cost > from the UK. I would then replace. > > Does anyone have any ideas for other small but valuable > items that I could add to the list ? > > For example plugs and filters would not be sensible as > they are almost as much in the US as in the UK. > > I would also take orders for stuff like captive nuts or AN > bolts, at least three weeks before a trip (next planned > first week of March) > > Any comments or suggestions (polite only please !) > > Richard Holder > G-OWWW High Cross > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:08 AM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Ampreg 20 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" Don't make the floating lids from polystyrene foam (eg blue foam), because it will dissolve! Duncan McF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Flying Farmer" Subject: Europa-List: RE: Ampreg 20 > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Flying Farmer" > > > Jeremy, Jeff, Ivor, > > Thank you for your advice on the Ampreg 20 Hardener, I did ring Martin > Armstrong and he had all the answers I needed in the dis-coloring of the > hardener. It was really bad oxidization which had been caused from some > old hardener left in the valve of the resin pump, The solution was to wash > out with soapy water, then to allow to air dry, then to flush out with new > resin and hardener. > Martin also advised in making a floating lid to reduce the surface area in > contact with the atmosphere, also suggested by Ivor (Thanks) > > Thanks All, > Richard Wheelwright. > ---------------- > Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:48 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: RE: Ampreg 20 From: "Flying Farmer" 0.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "Flying Farmer" [quote:efc33f4e3c="ami at mcfadyean.freeserv"]Don't make the floating lids from polystyrene foam (eg blue foam), because it will dissolve! Duncan McF[/quote:efc33f4e3c] Thank you Duncan for replying, It was suggested to use the blue foam, but to first seal it up with epoxy to prevent it dissolving. This suggestion came from Martin Armstrong at Ampreg Systems. Richard wheelwright. ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:57 AM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Europa-List: rotating stand --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart For anyone interested I have posted some pics on the owners forum of a rotating stand we built to help with painting - based on what we have seen others do. Cost all of 19.99 GBP from Screwfix (plus a little bit of gentle modification with a hacksaw and welding gun. Pics are at http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=rotating-stand&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php Regards and Happy New year to all Paul Stewart G-GIDY ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:22 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Monowheel hot cylinders? --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" I'm guessing because Rotax only give you two places for CHT probes, Port front and starboard rear, Unless you want to use the spark plug seal type of course, > I currently monitor the back starboard and front port. I suspect that the > rear port would run hotter than the front port side, but to be honest I > can't remeber why I chose to monitor the front one. > Those flying XS Monowheel with 914 which cylinder on each side show > highest for EGT and CHT? Ivor ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:35 AM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Good day All, To follow the thinking of this thread, would a good way to go be installing the kit filter onto the Main side only, then install a gascolator prior to the electric fuel pump in the baggage bay? This way if anything plugs up the main, switching would allow fuel to continue and if there is water or swarf included then the gascolator should be able to handle that for a safe landing and a clearing of the filter and gascolator. Just a thought. Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:01 PM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Monowheel hot cylinders? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" I think the rationale was right rear for tractor configuration and left front for pusher configuration. chus, MP ----- Original Message ----- From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Monowheel hot cylinders? > --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" > > > I'm guessing because Rotax only give you two places for CHT probes, Port > front and starboard rear, Unless you want to use the spark plug seal type > of > course, > >> I currently monitor the back starboard and front port. I suspect that >> the >> rear port would run hotter than the front port side, but to be honest I >> can't remeber why I chose to monitor the front one. > > >> Those flying XS Monowheel with 914 which cylinder on each side show >> highest for EGT and CHT? > > Ivor > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:02 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: rotating stand --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" I found that the third leg of the engine stand wasn't necessary. In fact, it could result in damage to the engine mount if the tail support slips off its stand. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Stewart" Subject: Europa-List: rotating stand > --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart > > For anyone interested I have posted some pics on the owners forum of a > rotating stand we built to help with painting - based on what we have > seen others do. Cost all of 19.99 GBP from Screwfix (plus a little bit > of gentle modification with a hacksaw and welding gun. > > Pics are at > http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=rotating-stand&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php > > Regards and Happy New year to all > > Paul Stewart > G-GIDY > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:17 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: Ampreg 20 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Martin, Glad to hear that was useful. Martin is a top guy. Just a quick tip to be careful putting water through a resin pump. The mild steel springs will rust in no time, and getting water out of the chambers will be near impossible (you'll end up disassembling it to get all the water out). Don't ask how I know - all I'll say it is wasn't me... Kind regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1430 build hours to date, build currently stalled due to house moves and lack of workshop Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Flying Farmer Subject: Europa-List: RE: Ampreg 20 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Flying Farmer" --> Jeremy, Jeff, Ivor, Thank you for your advice on the Ampreg 20 Hardener, I did ring Martin Armstrong and he had all the answers I needed in the dis-coloring of the hardener. It was really bad oxidization which had been caused from some old hardener left in the valve of the resin pump, The solution was to wash out with soapy water, then to allow to air dry, then to flush out with new resin and hardener. Martin also advised in making a floating lid to reduce the surface area in contact with the atmosphere, also suggested by Ivor (Thanks) Thanks All, Richard Wheelwright. ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:41 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Jeff I always publish IMHO details which I hope will enable others to make informed judgement against it is secondary that I fully agree with Jim T. Europa are selling a product which for them (hopefully) makes an adequate profit and with it or not goes the personal specification of additional but non essential mods. A choice which the purchaser can make to satisfy his particular whim or concern. I'm not sure if the water drain mod is optional or not but IMHO it is short sighted to not recognise the potential for sooner or later getting caught out. I agree the list shouldn't be used to justify "one up manship" but I don't think it is valid to advocate ignore and rule out others experiences either. People who are building are mostly grown up and have their own perception of what is sound advice and what is not. Damned if I'm going to attempt to teach Europa to "suck eggs". IMHO the new builder should be well pleased to have the benefit of not needing to eventually "re-invent the wheel" and enjoy the said benefits which the forum provides by the debate it promotes especially so from those who went before and to date have survived. No offence ever intended ......unless I clearly say so ! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI /Jabiru 3300 ( 600 hours survived and one forced landing even with what I thought meticulous handing of fuel ....in fact my main crud discovered in the finger filters was single strands of fibre from the wipers I used to wipe out jugs etc for filling.) Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS As usual with this list these things get carried way to far past what builders need. If anything, you all are simply hurting the new builder's attitude towards weather he's made a smart purchase in the Europa. If the filters are not the way to go then would all of you that have turned to a different direction take it up with Europa! Sounds like Europa should be selling kits with gascolators instead of filters. If a builder needs help he should ask the list and hopefully get the answers needed. More and more I see this forum being used to defend ones own, or a buddy's opinion or integrity. Remember there people out here needing encouragement and help and all this arguing does is discourage the poor sap that laid down $26K for a kit with cheep inline filters. If they don't serve there intent tell Europa to quit selling them! Jeff A258 Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:41 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Mike ... you probably have the message OK except the only way you could better your suggestion would be a mini gascolator on each line. However it is all IMHO and I have just the one gascolator in the main line and the water drain mod and they have together proved to be very capable in all respects including water to date. (It was my finger filters and wiper strands of fibre and bad intersection of the drillings in the tank connectors which caused my forced landing like the wash hand basin or bath plug hole effect) Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Good day All, To follow the thinking of this thread, would a good way to go be installing the kit filter onto the Main side only, then install a gascolator prior to the electric fuel pump in the baggage bay? This way if anything plugs up the main, switching would allow fuel to continue and if there is water or swarf included then the gascolator should be able to handle that for a safe landing and a clearing of the filter and gascolator. Just a thought. Mike Duane A207A ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:13 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: rescue service [was: Spares] --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson At 2006-01-07 11:00 +0000 Richard Holder wrote: >Who deals with The Europa Rescue Service ? If it is >Rowland please make me down as willilng to help. Richard - the Rescue Service data is collected by the Membership Secretary (still Rowland at the time of writing). I have amended your record to show you willing to help. The renewal reminder form that you will receive in late March / early April will have on the reverse the details of what you're prepared to offer (eg radius of cover air/road, trailer, inspector, beds, workshop, spares, language, etc). No doubt you'll wish to submit appropriate data at that time. For those who haven't heard about it, the Rescue Service operates thus: A Europa person in trouble away from base phones any Europa Club Committee member. All Committee members receive at intervals from the Membership Secretary a list of Rescue Service participants sorted by location. The Committee member consults her/his latest list and phones a suitable candidate (depending on resources shown and type of problem reported), asking her/him to contact the person in distress directly. So, to benefit from the Rescue Service, all that members need carry on their travels is a list of Committee members' phone numbers - and those are published near the front of every copy of the newsletter. Hope this helps. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson (retiring) Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info! | Europa 435 G-ROWI (750 hours building) PFA #16532 | e-mail website ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:52 PM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" Jeff, I could not agree with you more. These days I am almost afraid to make any comment on this site in case someone takes issue with it. I too am concerned about the negative impact made on Europa's sales when people persist in putting down the original product to justify their own preferences. My personal contribution regarding ants in the fuel was for general interest. I was able to fly my 'built to the manual' kit plane safely on it's journey with a backup filter and intelligent use of the fuel pressure gauge. I do not need others to subtly suggest that I am an idiot for doing these sorts of things. I have a wife for that! The standard Europa is a great little ship straight from the box. I love it, and feel very safe in it. Sure, I am an accident waiting to happen, but isn't everyone? Let us not get obsessive about to many negatives. Enjoy the thing for the purpose for which it was designed. If you want to make it into something else, fine, but please recognise the wonderful qualities of the original design for it's purpose. Regards. Bryan Allsop From: "JEFF ROBERTS" > As usual with this list these things get carried way to far past what > builders need. If anything, you all are simply hurting the new > builder's attitude towards weather he's made a smart purchase in the > Europa. If the filters are not the way to go then would all of you that > have turned to a different direction take it up with Europa! Sounds > like Europa should be selling kits with gascolators instead of filters. > If a builder needs help he should ask the list and hopefully get the > answers needed. More and more I see this forum being used to defend > ones own, or a buddy's opinion or integrity. Remember there people out > here needing encouragement and help and all this arguing does is > discourage the poor sap that laid down $26K for a kit with cheep inline > filters. If they don't serve there intent tell Europa to quit selling > them! > Jeff > A258 > Do not archive. > > > On Jan 7, 2006, at 11:06 AM, James wrote: > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "James" >> >> I guess I'll reply now that this has gotten heated. There are those >> that >> have gotten crud in those filters, and those that will. You CAN NOT >> clean >> the plastic tank out fully after drilling it. Not water or air or >> gasoline >> will dislodge all the swarf. Only time and some aerobatics seem to help >> dislodge the junk. If you have flown your plane since new with no >> crud in >> the filters, you are either EXTREMELY lucky or flying on borrowed >> time. A >> 914 WILL quit if the filter clogs! I have the four deadstick >> landings, and >> five precautionary landings to prove it! Water can get in the topside >> fillers and vents. I have one deadstick from almost three quarts in >> the >> tank to prove THAT. I switched to the reserve side to check flow and >> it >> promptly quit. Switching back to the main side did not help, seems >> the bing >> carbs won't work with just H2O filling the float bowls.;-) You need >> drains >> and a good high flow separator/filter setup. Just make sure to check >> the >> filters often. >> >> Jim T. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator >> >> >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" >> >> Yes, and there are those out there who install audible warning lights >> to >> tell them if their doors aren't properly latched, or their seatbelts >> aren't >> fully engaged. Probably the same ones who wear elastic waisted pants >> plus a >> >> belt and two pairs of suspenders. There's a difference between being >> reasonably careful, and being neurotic. The latter should probably >> stay >> home watching television in the safety and comfort of their couch. >> >> Kick the tires and light the fires. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mike Parkin" >> To: >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator >> >> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" >>> >>> >>> >>>> Remarkable in this discussion are the people that keep telling that >>>> their fuel has always been clean. They probably do not need filters >>>> or gascolators at all. Or checklists either. It's always OK eh? They >>>> probably forget that just that one, first incident could kill them. >>>> Wrong mentality >>>> in this hobby. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:20 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: fitting gascolator From: "josok" 0.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" Hi Mike, To be honest i am not quite sure if you are politely pulling my leg here. I am an inexperienced pilot after all. And i hope i will never reach the level of experience of survived fuel starvation's that you see here on this forum as well as in the statistics. That experience i gladly leave to the happy folks who think of themselves as experienced pilots. If that makes me paranoid, i am happy with the diagnosis. As already mentioned, we builders have the superb opportunity here to learn from the arguments, and make changes to a magnificent kit if they feel strong about it. For the factory there are a lot of reasons that make it difficult for them to add possible improvements efficiently. That should not prevent us from trying to build as safely as possible. Kind regards, Jos Okhuijsen ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:49 PM PST US From: SPurpura@AOL.COM Subject: Europa-List: L.G. FRAME CRACK --> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com During preflight today I noticed that the spinner was a little offset and hanging a bit low,after removing the cowl I found that the l.g. frame had cracked & separated just behind the port upper motor mount. I believe the crack occured when the manifold cross-over tube was disconnected during carb balancing several months ago and the 914 ran so rough (with the cross-over disconnected ) that it was shut down for fear of breaking a motor mount. If anyone would like to see a pic.,let me know where to post it. Sam N77EU ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:03 PM PST US From: "Thomas Scherer" Subject: Re: Europa-List: L.G. FRAME CRACK --> Europa-List message posted by: "Thomas Scherer" Wow ! You guys keep hitting my fear buttons lately .... clogged fuel filters and broken engine mounts. Whenever I was about to fall asleep during my ocean crossings in N81EU the visualisation of a cracked welding in the mount and both fuel filters closed shut kept a poor soul awake. For the fuel filters I had prepared though ... 2 more new filters and several screens for in-cockpit replacement. 1 Filter has actually clogged up once, but the second took over. Worst was the failure of the entire fuel lines provided with the kit. They were simply leaking with the rubber part dissolving during a flight. Fortunately it was over land and ALL fuel lines were replcaed within 2 hrs and have kept up since. W H A T E L S E C A N G O W R O N G ? ? Anybody needs my wife's eMail adress ? happy landings, ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Europa-List: L.G. FRAME CRACK > --> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com > > During preflight today I noticed that the spinner was a little offset and > hanging a bit low,after removing the cowl I found that the l.g. frame had > cracked > & separated just behind the port upper motor mount. I believe the crack > occured when the manifold cross-over tube was disconnected during carb > balancing > several months ago and the 914 ran so rough (with the cross-over > disconnected ) > that it was shut down for fear of breaking a motor mount. If anyone would > like to see a pic.,let me know where to post it. Sam N77EU > > >