---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/16/06: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:18 AM - Re: Wing skin separation HELP (William Daniell) 2. 10:23 AM - Re: Wing skin separation HELP (Jeremy Davey) 3. 12:17 PM - Subject: Monowheel Tire & Tube life (Rmi Guerner) 4. 03:28 PM - Inner tube source (Paul McAllister) 5. 03:55 PM - Re: Inner tube source (Rman) 6. 04:18 PM - Lord motor mount replacement (SPurpura@AOL.COM) 7. 04:40 PM - Re: Inner tube source () 8. 05:12 PM - Re: Lord motor mount replacement (Paul McAllister) 9. 09:32 PM - Cooling pictures (Cliff Shaw) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:50 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wing skin separation HELP --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Here is what I wrote to Jerry. Let me say it was very pleasant to have a group of guys rooting for one in the face of a great disappointment. Only someone who has built one of these can understand the feeling of having made a significant mistake and having to go back and correct it. Thanks to all. Will "I have attacked the wing skin. Weapons of choice wood chisel, wood plane and sanding disk. Thatll teach the bugger! New skins ordered. No way that I can see of saving the skin or more accurately - might save the skin but ruin the wing I thought of making a new top skin (making a polyester mould) but discarded this idea when I realized that the upper skin changes in construction from tip to root the root area is considerably stronger. Two steps forward one (and ) steps back." Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Fillinger Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 13:17 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing skin separation HELP --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" My attempt to soften Redux, after it had cured a couple weeks, was too a failure. Too much heat required, verses heat to damage the glass structure, which conducts heat poorly to get at the green stuff. For my safety at least, I would be assuming this procedure might give me a potential airworthiness problem to forever worry me in severe turbulence. I'm surprised the factory would advise -- not knowing any builder's skill level -- removal by any method other than panel destruction and replacement (requiring essentially $$, that's all!). Otherwise a Hobson's choice on structural integrity, attempting a fix, the moral equivalent of "don't force it...use a bigger hammer." I don't have this style wing, but merely perused the XS manual online. It's my opinion that the primary purpose of the tapes is such that improper orientation of the fibers matters only a little, but I have no credentials to say that. But, when we add two more tapes, we do stiffen the ass'y there further, concentrating stresses elsewhere. That could mean a "seven yard gain, with a five yard penalty," as in U.S. football. So, if the factory can analyze that one with engineering analysis to say no harm, they should be able to say computationally why -- in stress paths -- 90 on the tapes is not good. Or more likely just their gut reaction and "usual rules" for FG construction. The only thing I would not do was a fix which may compromise the structure worse than the original problem. Reg, Fred F. (nickname "Hobson") ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:23 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wing skin separation HELP --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Indeed! We've all got that T-shirt in one form or another, and I sympathise wholeheartedly with someone like Will who has obviously been unfortunate enough to have got an XXXXL one. Not a fun repair job, but it sounds like he attacked it with gusto and I hope his new skins arrive quickly! Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1430 build hours to date, build currently stalled due to house moves and lack of workshop Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 16 January 2006 15:17 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wing skin separation HELP --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" --> Here is what I wrote to Jerry. Let me say it was very pleasant to have a group of guys rooting for one in the face of a great disappointment. Only someone who has built one of these can understand the feeling of having made a significant mistake and having to go back and correct it. Thanks to all. Will "I have attacked the wing skin. Weapons of choice wood chisel, wood plane and sanding disk. Thatll teach the bugger! New skins ordered. No way that I can see of saving the skin or more accurately - might save the skin but ruin the wing I thought of making a new top skin (making a polyester mould) but discarded this idea when I realized that the upper skin changes in construction from tip to root the root area is considerably stronger. Two steps forward one (and ) steps back." Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Fillinger Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 13:17 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing skin separation HELP --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" My attempt to soften Redux, after it had cured a couple weeks, was too a failure. Too much heat required, verses heat to damage the glass structure, which conducts heat poorly to get at the green stuff. For my safety at least, I would be assuming this procedure might give me a potential airworthiness problem to forever worry me in severe turbulence. I'm surprised the factory would advise -- not knowing any builder's skill level -- removal by any method other than panel destruction and replacement (requiring essentially $$, that's all!). Otherwise a Hobson's choice on structural integrity, attempting a fix, the moral equivalent of "don't force it...use a bigger hammer." I don't have this style wing, but merely perused the XS manual online. It's my opinion that the primary purpose of the tapes is such that improper orientation of the fibers matters only a little, but I have no credentials to say that. But, when we add two more tapes, we do stiffen the ass'y there further, concentrating stresses elsewhere. That could mean a "seven yard gain, with a five yard penalty," as in U.S. football. So, if the factory can analyze that one with engineering analysis to say no harm, they should be able to say computationally why -- in stress paths -- 90 on the tapes is not good. Or more likely just their gut reaction and "usual rules" for FG construction. The only thing I would not do was a fix which may compromise the structure worse than the original problem. Reg, Fred F. (nickname "Hobson") ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:27 PM PST US From: "Rmi Guerner" Subject: Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel Tire & Tube life --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rmi Guerner" Paul, The max pressure mentioned on my original tyre was 24 PSI. As I was not confident in the strength of this tyre and wanted to increase that pressure, I replace it by a Mac Creary Air Trac 8.00-6/6 after 150 hours. I had to keep the original tube as the valve of the new tube I bought from ACS was incompatible with the Europa wheel. I inflate now at 30 PSI. The new tire and increased pressure greatly improves handling on both hard and grass runways. It also increases slightly the prop clearance. I have now 378 hours. The tyre does not show any sign of wear. Remi Guerner F-PGKL, S/N395 XS monowheel, 288 hours on a 914 + 90 hours since fitted with the 912S, Airmaster prop ordered. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" I am wondering how folks are making out with Monowheel tires and tube life. If I keep the tube inflation in the 18~20 psi then I find that it is really tough on the tubes. Yesterday I had my second tube failure while on landing. If you have ever had this happen is tough going, it is impossible to move the aircraft by hand. At this stage I am thinking of changing my tubes every 100 hours, but I am wondering about the tire. The tire I have now has 370 hours on it and it still has tread, how ever its obvious that the side walls have been weakened by the constant running at low pressure, so perhaps I need to change it more often as well. Thoughts ? Paul N378PJ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:28:53 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Europa-List: Inner tube source --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi all, I just got off the telephone from AC Spruce and they tell me that the 7/8-600 inner tube with a right angle valve is no longer available from McCleary. Other than order it from Europa and wait, can anyone in the US suggest where I can purchase one from. Thanks, Paul ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:10 PM PST US From: Rman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Inner tube source --> Europa-List message posted by: Rman Paul, Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but try this link. Picture is of a tire, but number is for a tube with 90 degree valve... http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=7970~subid=1993/index.html Jeff - N55XS 133 hours Paul McAllister wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > Hi all, > > I just got off the telephone from AC Spruce and they tell me that the > 7/8-600 inner tube with a right angle valve is no longer available from > McCleary. > > Other than order it from Europa and wait, can anyone in the US suggest where > I can purchase one from. > > Thanks, > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:14 PM PST US From: SPurpura@AOL.COM Subject: Europa-List: Lord motor mount replacement --> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com I am replacing the soft O-200 type Lord mounts with the stiffer ones supplied by Europa. Do any of you lister's know the length of the spacers in the FWF kit ? Thank's, Sam N77EU ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Inner tube source From: --> Europa-List message posted by: Hello Paul Try giving Desser a call, let us know if they offer. http://www.desser.com/ Ron P. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:47 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lord motor mount replacement --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Sam, You are going to have to make up 4 spacers 1.7" long out of .5" tube with an internal ID of .306" I seem to recall that the standard ones would not compress the Lord mounts enough when I made mine. Paul -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of SPurpura@aol.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 6:17 PM Subject: Europa-List: Lord motor mount replacement --> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com I am replacing the soft O-200 type Lord mounts with the stiffer ones supplied by Europa. Do any of you lister's know the length of the spacers in the FWF kit ? Thank's, Sam N77EU ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:39 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Europa-List: Cooling pictures --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" All I finely added some pictures to my page at EUROPAOWNERS. They are in am album named "Cooling" (if you are interested) Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE ----- Original Message ----- From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 4:39 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Inner tube source --> Europa-List message posted by: Hello Paul Try giving Desser a call, let us know if they offer. http://www.desser.com/ Ron P.