---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/18/06: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:37 AM - Re: Cooling pictures (John Cliff) 2. 01:54 AM - Re: Left side panel extension (Richard Holder) 3. 01:58 AM - Re: Left side panel extension (Paul Stewart) 4. 03:29 AM - Re: Wing skin separation HELP (Roger Sheridan) 5. 03:45 AM - Re: Wing skin separation HELP (William Daniell) 6. 04:56 AM - Re: Monowheel Starter switch (Pete Lawless) 7. 06:20 AM - Re: Carb heat mod (willie harrison) 8. 07:49 AM - Re: Carb heat mod (Jack Heijboer) 9. 08:03 AM - Re: Monowheel Starter switch () 10. 08:21 AM - monowheel trailer (klaas de Geus) 11. 08:43 AM - Re: Monowheel Starter switch (Paul McAllister) 12. 08:43 AM - Re: Carb heat mod (Jeremy Davey) 13. 08:58 AM - Re: Carb heat mod (Richard Holder) 14. 10:02 AM - Re: Carb heat mod (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 15. 10:27 AM - Re: Monowheel Starter switch (Fred Fillinger) 16. 11:05 AM - Carb heat mod and Avgas question (willie harrison) 17. 11:14 AM - Re: Monowheel Starter switch (Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden) 18. 12:17 PM - Re: Lord motor mount replacement (Bryan Allsop) 19. 06:30 PM - Re: Carb heat mod (SPurpura@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:55 AM PST US From: "John Cliff" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling pictures --> Europa-List message posted by: "John Cliff" > As far as I can see you did'nt execute the > extra circular inlet in the lower cowl for the fibre cowl around the > cylinders of the 912S engine that you installed. Do you have any special > reason for this different view. Some 912S engines were (are?) supplied with the extra glass shroud around the cylinders and some weren't. If you have it then the extra hole is clearly needed, though it isn't very beautiful. If not, then there's no point. John Cliff #0259 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:00 AM PST US From: Richard Holder Subject: Re: Europa-List: Left side panel extension --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder > Our panel is coming along, now populated with major components laid out to > our liking. > > Instead of haphazardly squeezing in switches, fuses and breakers, we are > thinking about leaving panel clean and adding a lower panel extension on > the left side. > > It seems that 1 inch can be extended downwards the full width (~15"), and > 6" in the center can be extended downwards 3 plus inches. > > Has anyone done this? Like this ? You need to decide the positions of everything BEFORE you cut anything ! Richard Holder G-OWWW Classic tri-Gear High Cross 160 hours ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:58:56 AM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Re: Europa-List: Left side panel extension --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart Ron We certainly extended the panel to accommodate the BMA EFIS 1. I don't quite know how it compares to your dimensions. The upper panel needed enlarging both above and below thus dropping the switch panel down. The top of the module was difficult but the rest was straight forward. There are some pics at http://www.europaowners.org inthe gallery. Regards paul G-GIDY ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:24 AM PST US From: Roger Sheridan Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing skin separation HELP --> Europa-List message posted by: Roger Sheridan I heard a good saying on the radio today: "Anyone who never made a mistake, never made anything" Good luck! Rog S ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:45:40 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wing skin separation HELP --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Thanks - Will PS maybe I was just dumb enough to confess! -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Sheridan Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 06:26 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing skin separation HELP --> Europa-List message posted by: Roger Sheridan I heard a good saying on the radio today: "Anyone who never made a mistake, never made anything" Good luck! Rog S ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:11 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel Starter switch --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" Ron My mono starts fine with just 2 hands, one to hold the choke out and the other to press the starter button. What is the third hand for? Or do you not have a parking brake? Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: 18 January 2006 05:48 Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel Starter switch --> Europa-List message posted by: We have a ACS ignition switch without a starter contact. It seems that a extra hand may be useful when starting a monowheel. Anyone come up with placement of starter switch that does not require using a hand? Thx. Ron Parigoris -- 17/01/2006 -- 17/01/2006 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:17 AM PST US From: "willie harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Carb heat mod --> Europa-List message posted by: "willie harrison" What experience does anyone else have of carb icing on Rotax powered Europas? I had thought that the standard set up was supposed to be largely immune but I encountered some serious icing yesterday. In the cruise at 5,200 rpm, 5000 feet, outside air temp approx zero, in clear air above broken cloud. First of all there was a steady loss of rpm to 4.800 at the same throttle setting and then when full power was applied for 30 seconds there were two "kerthumps", presumably as the two carbs lobbed their two ice cubes into the engine. Fuel is 100% avgas. Coolant and oil were both running at approx 80C. The only thing I can think of which is non standard with the way mine is built is that the inlet air filter has been re-positioned to be directly in line with the NACA inlet so there is no chance for the inlet air to swirl around under the cowlings to pick up some heat. Has anyone else heard of this mod? What is anyone's experience with carb heaters on this engine? Cheers Willie Harrison G-BZNY - now piling on the hours after some grim teething troubles.... ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:21 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Carb heat mod From: "Jack Heijboer" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jack Heijboer" Willie, Would be nice to know which type of rotax you are refering too. Regards jack H -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]Namens willie harrison Verzonden: woensdag 18 januari 2006 15:18 Aan: europa-list@matronics.com Onderwerp: RE: Europa-List: Carb heat mod --> Europa-List message posted by: "willie harrison" What experience does anyone else have of carb icing on Rotax powered Europas? I had thought that the standard set up was supposed to be largely immune but I encountered some serious icing yesterday. In the cruise at 5,200 rpm, 5000 feet, outside air temp approx zero, in clear air above broken cloud. First of all there was a steady loss of rpm to 4.800 at the same throttle setting and then when full power was applied for 30 seconds there were two "kerthumps", presumably as the two carbs lobbed their two ice cubes into the engine. Fuel is 100% avgas. Coolant and oil were both running at approx 80C. The only thing I can think of which is non standard with the way mine is built is that the inlet air filter has been re-positioned to be directly in line with the NACA inlet so there is no chance for the inlet air to swirl around under the cowlings to pick up some heat. Has anyone else heard of this mod? What is anyone's experience with carb heaters on this engine? Cheers Willie Harrison G-BZNY - now piling on the hours after some grim teething troubles.... ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:07 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel Starter switch From: --> Europa-List message posted by: Thx. for the reply. No official parking brake, I was going to try the wedge approach. Even with the parking brake applied, I figured it may be useful to have a free hand when starting in cold, or with a finikey motor on a hot start, to begin cranking with mags off, then turn on either 1 or 2 ignitions to help with preventing kickbacks. May be a non issue with 914 and HD starter, but figured now is the time to scheme? Thx. Ron Parigoris "My mono starts fine with just 2 hands, one to hold the choke out and the > other to press the starter button. What is the third hand for? Or do > you not have a parking brake?" ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:45 AM PST US From: "klaas de Geus" Subject: Europa-List: monowheel trailer --> Europa-List message posted by: "klaas de Geus" Hi europa builders I am getting close to the first flight and have to think about a trailer. At this moment I am working on the instruments and the upholstery. Does anyone knows a used trailer for sale? Thank you very much. From: K. de Geus PH GES Monowheel 912S Netherlands ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:58 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel Starter switch --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Ron, Given what I know now, I probably would install a parking brake. Starting the aircraft isn't the only time you need to lock your brakes. It's not uncommon to be in a situation where you have to stop where the ground isn't level. For example when I taxi up for fuel at my airport it apron isn't level and the aircraft rolls. Paul -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:53 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel Starter switch --> Europa-List message posted by: Thx. for the reply. No official parking brake, I was going to try the wedge approach. Even with the parking brake applied, I figured it may be useful to have a free hand when starting in cold, or with a finikey motor on a hot start, to begin cranking with mags off, then turn on either 1 or 2 ignitions to help with preventing kickbacks. May be a non issue with 914 and HD starter, but figured now is the time to scheme? Thx. Ron Parigoris "My mono starts fine with just 2 hands, one to hold the choke out and the > other to press the starter button. What is the third hand for? Or do > you not have a parking brake?" ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:59 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Carb heat mod --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Willie, It's my understanding that carb icing is not a problem on Rotaxes _with_heated_carbs_. I've certainly heard of problems on Rotaxes with no carb heat. There are two ways I know of of doing this - one is sold over here in the UK by the Rotax agents Skydrive and uses the engine coolant to heat the carb body, the other uses electrical heating of the carb body (I think a recent issue of Popular Flying had details). Note that neither uses heating of the induction air! Hence there is no power loss and they are usually permanently engaged. I hope this helps. Kind regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1430 build hours to date, build currently stalled due to house moves and lack of workshop Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of willie harrison Sent: 18 January 2006 14:18 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Carb heat mod --> Europa-List message posted by: "willie harrison" --> What experience does anyone else have of carb icing on Rotax powered Europas? I had thought that the standard set up was supposed to be largely immune but I encountered some serious icing yesterday. In the cruise at 5,200 rpm, 5000 feet, outside air temp approx zero, in clear air above broken cloud. First of all there was a steady loss of rpm to 4.800 at the same throttle setting and then when full power was applied for 30 seconds there were two "kerthumps", presumably as the two carbs lobbed their two ice cubes into the engine. Fuel is 100% avgas. Coolant and oil were both running at approx 80C. The only thing I can think of which is non standard with the way mine is built is that the inlet air filter has been re-positioned to be directly in line with the NACA inlet so there is no chance for the inlet air to swirl around under the cowlings to pick up some heat. Has anyone else heard of this mod? What is anyone's experience with carb heaters on this engine? Cheers Willie Harrison G-BZNY - now piling on the hours after some grim teething troubles.... ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:07 AM PST US From: Richard Holder Subject: Re: Europa-List: Carb heat mod --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder Jeremy Davey wrote: > It's my understanding that carb icing is not a problem > on Rotaxes _with_heated_carbs_. I've certainly heard of > problems on Rotaxes with no carb heat. There are two > ways I know of of doing this - one is sold over here in > the UK by the Rotax agents Skydrive and uses the engine > coolant to heat the carb body, the other uses > electrical heating of the carb body (I think a recent > issue of Popular Flying had details). The one in Popular Flying has not been approved as a Mod yet ! My 912S with the carb heaters still gave some symptoms of carb ice when the water temperature wasn't high enough. > Note that neither uses heating of the induction air! > Hence there is no power loss and they are usually > permanently engaged. There is a third way. On the Polish AT3 visible at North Weald, which I had some dealings with, the 912S has a full carb air heat system installed along with a cabin heater (using the exhaust silencer [muffler] warmth). Now that I woud like on a brrrrr freezing day up there ! Richard Tri-gear G-OWWW High Cross WIth oil thermostat fitted waiting fro a flyable day to test ! ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:06 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Carb heat mod From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi, We have a mono-wheel XS with 912S and Skydrive carb heaters. We initially left the carb heat on all the time, but found it can cause hot starting problems if left on prior to shutdown. We then installed a water valve to the heaters, turning the carb heat on only when needed. Since then we have had carb ice on the ground and in the air. In all cases, the carb ice went away immediately after turning the heat back on. We also found, through careful testing, that there is indeed no loss of power with the carb heat on. Regards, Terry Seaver A135 / N135TD -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of willie harrison Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:18 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Carb heat mod --> Europa-List message posted by: "willie harrison" --> What experience does anyone else have of carb icing on Rotax powered Europas? I had thought that the standard set up was supposed to be largely immune but I encountered some serious icing yesterday. In the cruise at 5,200 rpm, 5000 feet, outside air temp approx zero, in clear air above broken cloud. First of all there was a steady loss of rpm to 4.800 at the same throttle setting and then when full power was applied for 30 seconds there were two "kerthumps", presumably as the two carbs lobbed their two ice cubes into the engine. Fuel is 100% avgas. Coolant and oil were both running at approx 80C. The only thing I can think of which is non standard with the way mine is built is that the inlet air filter has been re-positioned to be directly in line with the NACA inlet so there is no chance for the inlet air to swirl around under the cowlings to pick up some heat. Has anyone else heard of this mod? What is anyone's experience with carb heaters on this engine? Cheers Willie Harrison G-BZNY - now piling on the hours after some grim teething troubles.... ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:33 AM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel Starter switch --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > Even with the parking brake applied, I figured it may be useful > to have a free hand when starting in cold, or with a finikey motor.... An awful long time ago, cars had a foot switch for the starter. Wild suggestion or not, how you jury-rigged this wouldn't matter, as it would be out of sight. Making your plane virtually theft-proof. For 100% theft-proofing, use a reed switch. Then install one of them little, super-powerful neodymium magnets in your shoe. Perhaps then an insurance discount, like with cars today? Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:12 AM PST US From: "willie harrison" Subject: Europa-List: Carb heat mod and Avgas question --> Europa-List message posted by: "willie harrison" Many thanks for all replies so far. Jack, to answer your question, mine has a 912 ULS, vintage 2002. Also, Leaving aside the cost difference between mogas and avgas, what views does anyone have on their relative merits. I'm aware of Rotax' recommendation to stick to Mogas. Safe Flying ! Willie -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Heijboer Sent: 18 January 2006 15:45 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Carb heat mod --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jack Heijboer" Willie, Would be nice to know which type of rotax you are refering too. Regards jack H -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]Namens willie harrison Verzonden: woensdag 18 januari 2006 15:18 Aan: europa-list@matronics.com Onderwerp: RE: Europa-List: Carb heat mod --> Europa-List message posted by: "willie harrison" What experience does anyone else have of carb icing on Rotax powered Europas? I had thought that the standard set up was supposed to be largely immune but I encountered some serious icing yesterday. In the cruise at 5,200 rpm, 5000 feet, outside air temp approx zero, in clear air above broken cloud. First of all there was a steady loss of rpm to 4.800 at the same throttle setting and then when full power was applied for 30 seconds there were two "kerthumps", presumably as the two carbs lobbed their two ice cubes into the engine. Fuel is 100% avgas. Coolant and oil were both running at approx 80C. The only thing I can think of which is non standard with the way mine is built is that the inlet air filter has been re-positioned to be directly in line with the NACA inlet so there is no chance for the inlet air to swirl around under the cowlings to pick up some heat. Has anyone else heard of this mod? What is anyone's experience with carb heaters on this engine? Cheers Willie Harrison G-BZNY - now piling on the hours after some grim teething troubles.... ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:06 AM PST US From: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel Starter switch --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" Novel idea, just don't wear them on a day when you are flying commercial airlines. Vaughn T. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Fillinger" Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:07 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel Starter switch > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > > rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > >> Even with the parking brake applied, I figured it may be useful >> to have a free hand when starting in cold, or with a finikey motor.... > > An awful long time ago, cars had a foot switch for the starter. Wild > suggestion or not, how you jury-rigged this wouldn't matter, as it would > be out of sight. Making your plane virtually theft-proof. > > For 100% theft-proofing, use a reed switch. Then install one of them > little, super-powerful neodymium magnets in your shoe. Perhaps then an > insurance discount, like with cars today? > > Reg, > Fred F. > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:27 PM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lord motor mount replacement --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" Regarding changing the engine mountings. I advise that you discuss this with Andy before going ahead. I have just replaced my mountings after five year's service. He has advised me not to go to softer alternatives. When Europa tried it they discovered that the engine developed a noticeable sag after a while. They have developed an alternative design using the same bushes, but reducing the compression by securing with slightly longer bolts and spacers. Cheers Bryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul McAllister" Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:11 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Lord motor mount replacement > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > > Sam, > > You are going to have to make up 4 spacers 1.7" long out of .5" tube with > an > internal ID of .306" I seem to recall that the standard ones would not > compress the Lord mounts enough when I made mine. > > Paul > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > SPurpura@aol.com > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 6:17 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Lord motor mount replacement > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com > > I am replacing the soft O-200 type Lord mounts with the stiffer ones > supplied > by Europa. > Do any of you lister's know the length of the spacers in the FWF kit ? > Thank's, Sam N77EU > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:30 PM PST US From: SPurpura@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Carb heat mod --> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com 912 or 914 power?