Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:25 AM - Re: Carb heat mod (Richard Holder)
2. 03:28 AM - Mat Leach (Simon Smith)
3. 12:37 PM - Re: Monowheel Starter switch (Tony Bale)
4. 03:15 PM - Panel vibration mounts (EuropaForum)
5. 03:46 PM - part #'s for CHT probes? (D Wysong)
6. 06:24 PM - Re: part #'s for CHT probes? (Cliff Shaw)
7. 07:33 PM - Re: part #'s for CHT probes? (Rman)
8. 07:54 PM - Re: part #'s for CHT probes? (D Wysong)
9. 07:54 PM - Re: part #'s for CHT probes? (Rman)
10. 08:25 PM - Re: part #'s for CHT probes? (D Wysong)
11. 10:45 PM - Re: Monowheel Starter switch (William Mills)
12. 11:06 PM - FW: all Photo Share Groups (R.C.Harrison)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Carb heat mod |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
> 912 or 914 power?
As I understand it the 914 doesn't need one because of the
forced induction.
So carb heaters on 912 and 912S only.
Richard
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
Any one have an up to date number for him?
I spoke to him in November and the number I have (01872 571724) is now
unobtainable. Apparently he has moved again.
cheers
Simon
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Monowheel Starter switch |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Bale" <tony.bale@virgin.net>
Ron,
We have an XS Mono 912S with about 110 hours. We have installed
individual high quality ignition switches with a micro switch (guarded) on
the throttle quadrant housing for the starter, this allows one hand to hold
the choke open and activate the starter. This set up also allows us to
achieve oil pressure with a higher cranking speed prior to first ignition
followed by the second (both switches on check is included in the vital
actions prior to take off) on. One ignition at a time shutdown also helps
the clutch (he said hopefully). We also have a parking brake
It works well, and leaves you a spare hand just incase its needed (no idea
what for mind you) we have found the only two ways to start the engine are
either when fully hot just a touch of throttle and zero choke, or cold, zero
throttle full choke and then tickle choke shut with very gentle throttle
opening once its running, both instances preceded by 3 or 4 seconds of
electric fuel pump to prime the circuit. So far starting has been reliable,
including a few very hot and very cold starts.
Thats our thoughts anyway, hope it helps.
ATB
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:48 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel Starter switch
> --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> We have a ACS ignition switch without a starter contact.
>
> It seems that a extra hand may be useful when starting a monowheel.
>
> Anyone come up with placement of starter switch that does not require
> using a hand?
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Panel vibration mounts |
--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
Jos,
Thanks for the question regarding my panel mounts. About two weeks
ago Jos saw me online and IMed me with a question about my panel mounts
http://www.europaowners.org/modules/gallery/albums/Panel/
DSCN3938.sized.jpg 4403K13 and 4403K27 http://www.mcmaster.com/
The simple question was "Steve, I don't see any loading data in
tension. If you have a sudden acceleration or acceleration stress
over time, are you going to be wearing your panel?"
The learning curve was more like a roller coaster. An email to
McMaster carr said. "Item number 4403k27 is not rated for tension at
all. The mount is designed for compression applications only."
My heart sunk, Then back to the catalog, how could I be so wrong?
Wait... I wasn't, the catalog clearly gives shear loading data.
So I contacted the manufacturer. Good news, the manufacturer
recommended two types of mounts. The first was a wire rope type some
thing like this Mcmaster part 62225K3. Then they recommended the same
type I was installing. I asked about the fact that there was no
tension data, their reply was it's "not rated for tension, because if
we did some one would hang the panel from the ceiling". Ok, give me a
number I said. The mounts can handle shear loading rating in
acceleration. No problem. Meaning that for a short duration,
acceleration of one G the panel won't fall off.
So 35 to 40 lb panel 3 mounts at 15 lb max shear load each will hold
my panel at one G in all directions. I have ten load bearing mounts
so I'm good for 3.75 g before I hit the safety stops.
But I was warned that too many mounts could actually be worse than
none. Depending on the vibration rate and arm of motion, to many
mounts could setup a feed back loop and the panel shake it self to
pieces.
SO.... It's not that I don't have enough mounts it's I may have to
many. The plan is this, remove mounts until I have 1.5g load rating.
Install stops so I have only max deflection, vertical .150",
Compression .09", and 0 in tension. The stops should be easily made
with a bolt some spacer tubing and a couple of washers.
I'm also going to take a couple of the mounts to work and have the
lab test them until destruction... just to be sure.
Photos will be posted when I get it built.
Keep the questions coming,
Steved
When I ask the AP at our EAA meeting, he said the mounts looked just
like the ones in his Cessna 150.......
Message 5
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| Subject: | part #'s for CHT probes? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
I saw this question a few times in the archives but never stumbled upon
an answer...
Anyone have a part number for CHT probes that have been successfully
installed underneath the spark plugs of a Rotax 914?
What other methods have you all used to measure all 4 CHTs on a 914?
(... or CHTs for 1 and 4 if using the VDO probes on 2 and 3)
Thanks!
D
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: part #'s for CHT probes? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
D Wysong
I worried about that too. I did not find good references as to what I should see
if I did install spark plug sensors.
The real question you need answered is "what is the H2O temperature" This is the
"hotspot" in the Rotax 912S. (you don't wnat it boiling over) I installed
a probe in the "coolant pot" using a alum nipple I had welded to the pot. Now
I read the hot water temp on CHT . ( just like oil temp)
My thoughts.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
----- Original Message -----
From: D Wysong
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 3:47 PM
Subject: Europa-List: part #'s for CHT probes?
--> Europa-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
I saw this question a few times in the archives but never stumbled upon
an answer...
Anyone have a part number for CHT probes that have been successfully
installed underneath the spark plugs of a Rotax 914?
What other methods have you all used to measure all 4 CHTs on a 914?
(... or CHTs for 1 and 4 if using the VDO probes on 2 and 3)
Thanks!
D
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: part #'s for CHT probes? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rman <topglock@cox.net>
Aircraft Spruce has one at
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/in/electronicsinternational_probes.html
There is also one provided with the VDO CHT Gauge (the one I use).
Jeff - N55XS
133 hours
D Wysong wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
>
> I saw this question a few times in the archives but never stumbled upon
> an answer...
>
> Anyone have a part number for CHT probes that have been successfully
> installed underneath the spark plugs of a Rotax 914?
>
> What other methods have you all used to measure all 4 CHTs on a 914?
> (... or CHTs for 1 and 4 if using the VDO probes on 2 and 3)
>
> Thanks!
>
> D
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: part #'s for CHT probes? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
Good points, Cliff. Thanks for the idea!
D
-----
Cliff Shaw wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
>
> D Wysong
>
> I worried about that too. I did not find good references as to what I should
see if I did install spark plug sensors.
>
> The real question you need answered is "what is the H2O temperature" This is
the "hotspot" in the Rotax 912S. (you don't wnat it boiling over) I installed
a probe in the "coolant pot" using a alum nipple I had welded to the pot.
Now I read the hot water temp on CHT . ( just like oil temp)
>
> My thoughts.
>
> Cliff Shaw
> 1041 Euclid ave.
> Edmonds, WA 98020
> 425 776 5555
> http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: D Wysong
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 3:47 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: part #'s for CHT probes?
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
>
> I saw this question a few times in the archives but never stumbled upon
> an answer...
>
> Anyone have a part number for CHT probes that have been successfully
> installed underneath the spark plugs of a Rotax 914?
>
> What other methods have you all used to measure all 4 CHTs on a 914?
> (... or CHTs for 1 and 4 if using the VDO probes on 2 and 3)
>
> Thanks!
>
> D
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: part #'s for CHT probes? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rman <topglock@cox.net>
Cliff and anyone else who can help,
I installed a VDO water temp probe in the large hose, exiting the
coolant pot. Temps are reported at 190 to 220 degrees, which I consider
very good for the 912S, however, My CHT, as reported by the spark plug
probe, reads around 275, most of the time. I realize that the temp at
the base of the plug is probably the hottest spot on the engine, but is
this something I should be concerned about?
Has anyone used the Rotax supplied probe (the one in the head)
successfully with a VDO gauge? If so, will it hook directly to the VDO
gauge, or does it require some sort of adapter? What, if any,
difference should I expect in reported temps? Any help is greatly
appreciated...
Jeff - N55XS
133 hours
Cliff Shaw wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
>
> D Wysong
>
> I worried about that too. I did not find good references as to what I should
see if I did install spark plug sensors.
>
> The real question you need answered is "what is the H2O temperature" This is
the "hotspot" in the Rotax 912S. (you don't wnat it boiling over) I installed
a probe in the "coolant pot" using a alum nipple I had welded to the pot.
Now I read the hot water temp on CHT . ( just like oil temp)
>
> My thoughts.
>
> Cliff Shaw
> 1041 Euclid ave.
> Edmonds, WA 98020
> 425 776 5555
> http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: part #'s for CHT probes? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
Thanks Jeff. You able to install a EI P-102 successfully? Got pictures
and any installation tips?
Now I'm wondering now if the plug ports on the 912S and 914 differ??
Looks like those EI probes would be a bit too big (25 mm OD) to fit
inside the plug recess on the 914 (18 mm OD). We tried to install
Westach probes in our 914 but found that the plug + CHT sensor + socket
wrench simply won't exist in the same place at the same time... Grrrr.
Regarding your higher probe temp, the fellow at MGL Avionics (Rainier)
said that the under-the-plug probes will sometimes read hotter because
hot "gas" can make its way past the plug threads and come in contact
with the probe. Not sure what that means in terms of temp deltas, but
at least it's an explanation that folks can argue about. ;-)
Regarding the Rotax VDO, we're reading it with an analog input channel
that is pulled up to +5V. The sensor is grounded through the case. If
your VDO gauge puts out +5V excitation and has a common ground with the
engine then it oughta work. ???
D
Rotax 914 on a test stand in need of CHTs... and an airplane! :-)
---------------------
Rman wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Rman <topglock@cox.net>
>
> Aircraft Spruce has one at
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/in/electronicsinternational_probes.html
> There is also one provided with the VDO CHT Gauge (the one I use).
>
> Jeff - N55XS
> 133 hours
>
> D Wysong wrote:
>
>>--> Europa-List message posted by: D Wysong <hdwysong@gmail.com>
>>
>>I saw this question a few times in the archives but never stumbled upon
>>an answer...
>>
>>Anyone have a part number for CHT probes that have been successfully
>>installed underneath the spark plugs of a Rotax 914?
>>
>>What other methods have you all used to measure all 4 CHTs on a 914?
>>(... or CHTs for 1 and 4 if using the VDO probes on 2 and 3)
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>D
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Monowheel Starter switch |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
Hi Tony,
I can't quite work out where the ignition switches are located, where the
starter button is located (must be somewhere near the choke) and what the
guarded micro switch is for. Perhaps you could explain, because the system
seems quite sprag clutch friendly.
Best wishes,
William
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Bale" <tony.bale@virgin.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel Starter switch
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Bale" <tony.bale@virgin.net>
>
> Ron,
> We have an XS Mono 912S with about 110 hours. We have installed
> individual high quality ignition switches with a micro switch (guarded) on
> the throttle quadrant housing for the starter, this allows one hand to
> hold
> the choke open and activate the starter. This set up also allows us to
> achieve oil pressure with a higher cranking speed prior to first ignition
> followed by the second (both switches on check is included in the vital
> actions prior to take off) on. One ignition at a time shutdown also helps
> the clutch (he said hopefully). We also have a parking brake
> It works well, and leaves you a spare hand just incase its needed (no idea
> what for mind you) we have found the only two ways to start the engine are
> either when fully hot just a touch of throttle and zero choke, or cold,
> zero
> throttle full choke and then tickle choke shut with very gentle throttle
> opening once its running, both instances preceded by 3 or 4 seconds of
> electric fuel pump to prime the circuit. So far starting has been
> reliable,
> including a few very hot and very cold starts.
>
> Thats our thoughts anyway, hope it helps.
>
> ATB
>
> Tony
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:48 AM
> Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel Starter switch
>
>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>>
>> We have a ACS ignition switch without a starter contact.
>>
>> It seems that a extra hand may be useful when starting a monowheel.
>>
>> Anyone come up with placement of starter switch that does not require
>> using a hand?
>>
>> Thx.
>> Ron Parigoris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 18/01/2006
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | FW: all Photo Share Groups |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Guys.
Recently I was on a photo share list and noticed that the folder
containing my aircraft G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 had a couple of
video clips ....one entitled "Flight Test" and the other "take off and
land".... neither of the clips were working.
At the time being not awfully computer clever I forgot to note the
group which the folder it was on!
Some time later I decided to chase up the web page operator to rectify
the problem with the clips.....
You got it ...I can't now find the relevant list or folder !!!!
Anyone aware of such a list I'd be most obliged for some directions
please?
I had thought it was on the Matronics Europa, or Europa Owners, or
Jabiru Engines pages but to no avail.
Thanks, Guys in anticipation of your help
Bob Harrison G-PTAG EuropaMKI/Jabiru 3300
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