Europa-List Digest Archive

Mon 01/23/06


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:37 AM - Oil Thermostat (Richard Holder)
     2. 02:20 AM - Re: Oil Thermostat (Mike Parkin)
     3. 02:48 AM - Re: Oil Thermostat (Richard Holder)
     4. 04:59 AM - Scoops and 912S Temperatures (Justin Kennedy)
     5. 07:01 AM - Truetrak Autopilot (Klaus Dietrich)
     6. 08:17 AM - Re: Truetrak Autopilot (Cliff Shaw)
     7. 11:16 AM - Fw: Planning Forecasts - Automatic Email Updates (Rowland Carson)
     8. 01:02 PM - Re: Oil Thermostat (Duncan McFadyean)
     9. 01:17 PM - Re: Oil Thermostat (Richard Holder)
    10. 01:45 PM - Re: Oil Thermostat (Duncan McFadyean)
    11. 01:55 PM - Re: Oil Thermostat (Mike Parkin)
    12. 03:00 PM - Re: Oil Thermostat (Pete Lawless)
    13. 03:16 PM - Re: Oil Thermostat (Duncan McFadyean)
    14. 04:26 PM - Message for Ron Parigoris (Fred Fillinger)
    15. 06:51 PM - Pre-heating a Rotax? ()
    16. 07:55 PM - Re: Pre-heating a Rotax? (Paul McAllister)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:37:36 AM PST US
    From: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
    Subject: Oil Thermostat
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk> I have fitted and test flown my oil thermostat. I fear that it is faulty. I was expecting that the oil temperature would go quickly up to 80 or so and stay there whatever I did, unless I went to a really hot place when the temp would go up. I spoke to Steve Slade who currently owns G-MIKI the microlight that Nigel Beale put the original thermostat on, and on which the mod 10179 is based. He confirmed that his plane temp goes to 80 and stays there. he also said that the original purpose of the mod was to get the oil warming up quicker. My oil did not warm up quicker. On take-off the temperature rose to 95 on a very cold day (3 degrees), then it dropped to 60 in the cruise. 60 is where it used to cruise on cold days without the thermostat and with almost all the radiator blanked off. My feeling is that the waxstat in the thermostat is opening too early and is not opening enough so that some oil bypasses the cooler even at over 90. Anyone got any suggestions ? I am contemplating ripping the whole thing off and getting another one. I relate the sad tale now in case anyone else has bought the device and hasn't fitted it yet. The waxstat needs checking (dump in a saucepan of water, heat slowly and I believe it should start to expand at around 75 degrees and be fully extended (12 mm ?) by 85). If anyone has fitted one I would appreciate feed-back as to whether their oil temp goes quickly up to 80 and stays there ! TIA Richard G-OWWW High Cross


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:20:08 AM PST US
    From: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
    Subject: Re: Oil Thermostat
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com> Richard, Please don't shoot!!! But I have to ask the obvious - you are sure it is connected correctly?? regards, Mike PS. Is it OK to fit this Mod (PFA wise), or are you 'pressing to test'. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holder" <rholder@avnet.co.uk> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:35 AM Subject: Europa-List: Oil Thermostat > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk> >


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:48:53 AM PST US
    From: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Oil Thermostat
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk> > Please don't shoot!!! But I have to ask the obvious - > you are sure it is connected correctly?? Bang Bang ! > PS. Is it OK to fit this Mod (PFA wise), or are you > 'pressing to test'. Mod 10179 approved for "all of type" :-) Richard


    Message 4


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    Time: 04:59:07 AM PST US
    Subject: Scoops and 912S Temperatures
    From: "Justin Kennedy" <Justin@systemwise.co.uk>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Justin Kennedy" <Justin@systemwise.co.uk> Hello Everyone, Apart from a few pictures I have not been a contributor to the Forum but Ted has responded a few times, although we have both been avid readers.< Two subjects have cropped up this week which I feel, at last, I can make a useful contribution. The first is the Rotax 912S intake scoop to supply air to the composite cylinder barrel shroud which we have on our Rotax 912S. The factory supplied offering does the job but I was determined that our Classic would have a friendly face as well as be as aerodynamic as possible. I have posted a picture of our scoop which is situated under the spinner and is a great success. It did require some nifty moulding to make a piece that connects it with the Rotax shroud but by the time you get to this stage there is nothing you can't make out of composite. Right? Picture of Scoop posted to the picture section. The second is the carb icing thread. The whole subject of engine temperatures and the control of them was to the fore during our G-ZTED's first 25 hours. On temperatures I took advice from Marcus the CFI of our local Microlight school who is running Rotax 912S engines in the faster Microlights. He swears by the Skydrive coolant carb heater mod. They also put a neoprene shroud over their coolant radiators during the summer to reduce the cooling effect. They adjust the shrouds position dependent on outside temp on the ground. Our Rotax 912S also has a Skydrive carb heater so I was interested to hear his take on the subject. His rule of thumb was to cruise at 90-100 degrees CHT and 100-110 degrees Oil Temp. Initially we weren't getting anything like that, it's colder in Scotland. The CHTs were 80-85 degrees. Marcus shook his head and told me that Carb Icing is quite likely below 85 degrees CHT but with the coolant carb heater it will stay clear above 85 degees CHT. We now have it licked. Remembering we have the Classic cowling with big radiator intakes we blank off the radiator with a Velcro blind depending on outside temperature and control the temps in the climb by opening our cowl flaps (photo supplied). We have operated in summer temps of 35 degrees and -7 degrees at the coldest. We still watch it like a hawk but feel much more in control of it now. At the coldest we blanked of most of the starboard radiator but this prove to be a mistake as it stopped a good air flow through the starboard side of the engine compartment and the coolant overflow bottle distorted with the heat. We are now blanking it off on both sides equally. We would be most interested if people have other ideas on 912S engine temperatures. Justin Kennedy & Ted Gladstone G-ZTED Europa Classic Rotax 912S Airmaster CP Prop Kit No:15 First Flight May 25th 2005


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:01:49 AM PST US
    From: Klaus Dietrich <klaus.dietrich@oracle.com>
    Subject: Truetrak Autopilot
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Klaus Dietrich <klaus.dietrich@oracle.com> I intend to purchase a DigiTrak autopilot for my Europa and would like to conect it to my panel mount Garmin 100AVD. Does anybody know if the 100AVD will work with the DigiTrak or do I need to "upgade" to new GPS? Thanks! Klaus


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:17:04 AM PST US
    From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Truetrak Autopilot
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net> Klaus I had that same problem when I tried to connect my DigiTrack to my GPS (AvMap). I finely found out that the data rate out of my GPS was too slow to work. The DigiTrack people sold me a GPS receiver that solved the problem. It is a "blind" receiver with no display. It has just three wires and connects directly to the AP. Works well and I use it all the time. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE ----- Original Message ----- From: Klaus Dietrich To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:02 AM Subject: Europa-List: Truetrak Autopilot --> Europa-List message posted by: Klaus Dietrich <klaus.dietrich@oracle.com> I intend to purchase a DigiTrak autopilot for my Europa and would like to conect it to my panel mount Garmin 100AVD. Does anybody know if the 100AVD will work with the DigiTrak or do I need to "upgade" to new GPS? Thanks! Klaus


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:16:55 AM PST US
    From: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
    Subject: Fwd: Planning Forecasts - Automatic Email Updates
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net> UK pilots might be interested to know about this service, run by Simon Keeling when he's not doing the forecast on Midlands Today. He also runs weather schools for pilots. >Delivered-To: mailing list aviationweather@weatherweb.net >Subject: Planning Forecasts - Automatic Email Updates >Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:32:43 -0000 > >I've now added an email "push" service. This means that the >forecasts you select will be emailed to you as they are issued. > >To receive the forecasts by email go to <http://www.awis.org.uk> and >click on the area(s) you'd like to receive. Then when the forecasts >are issued, they will be automatically sent to you. > >Please keep the sponsor/subs ideas coming and let any bulletin >boards or forums you might be members of know about AWIS. > >Best wishes, >Simon > >Simon Keeling. > > >Weather Consultancy Services / Weather School >The Weather Centre, 188 Common Road, Wombourne, South Staffordshire. WV5 0LT. >Tel: 01902 895252 >email: <simon@weatherweb.net> > ><http://www.weatherweb.net>http://www.weatherweb.net ><http://www.weatherschool.co.uk>http://www.weatherschool.co.uk ><http://www.atlanticweather.co.uk>http://www.atlanticweather.co.uk I have no connexion with Simon (other than as a subscriber to his free weekend weather email list). Hope this is useful. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson PFA #16532 <http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/> | 750 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:02:27 PM PST US
    From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Oil Thermostat
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> The temperature at which the waxstat opens is usually stamped on the end of the insert (located inside the thermostat). Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holder" <rholder@avnet.co.uk> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:35 AM Subject: Europa-List: Oil Thermostat > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk> > > I have fitted and test flown my oil thermostat. I fear > that it is faulty. > > I was expecting that the oil temperature would go quickly > up to 80 or so and stay there whatever I did, unless I > went to a really hot place when the temp would go up. > > I spoke to Steve Slade who currently owns G-MIKI the > microlight that Nigel Beale put the original thermostat > on, and on which the mod 10179 is based. He confirmed that > his plane temp goes to 80 and stays there. he also said > that the original purpose of the mod was to get the oil > warming up quicker. > > My oil did not warm up quicker. On take-off the > temperature rose to 95 on a very cold day (3 degrees), > then it dropped to 60 in the cruise. 60 is where it used > to cruise on cold days without the thermostat and with > almost all the radiator blanked off. > > My feeling is that the waxstat in the thermostat is > opening too early and is not opening enough so that some > oil bypasses the cooler even at over 90. > > Anyone got any suggestions ? I am contemplating ripping > the whole thing off and getting another one. > > I relate the sad tale now in case anyone else has bought > the device and hasn't fitted it yet. The waxstat needs > checking (dump in a saucepan of water, heat slowly and I > believe it should start to expand at around 75 degrees and > be fully extended (12 mm ?) by 85). > > If anyone has fitted one I would appreciate feed-back as > to whether their oil temp goes quickly up to 80 and stays > there ! > > TIA > > Richard > G-OWWW High Cross > > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:17:52 PM PST US
    From: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Oil Thermostat
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk> Duncan McFadyean wrote: > The temperature at which the waxstat opens is usually > stamped on the end of the insert (located inside the > thermostat). Yes, it may be. I will look at it when I strip it all out again ! Would the waxstat go from closed to open in just a few degrees - so if it is stamped say 80 it would start at 75 and be fully open at 85, or would it be even tighter controlled than that ? Thanks ! Richard


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:45:10 PM PST US
    From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Oil Thermostat
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> Yes they do (i.e. open very rapidly within a few degrees) around the temperature that they are 'rated' for, and close less rapidly. If you try it in water you'll see what I mean; an element rated at 80 will be doing next to nothing at around 78, then be fully open by about 82. Having to dig deep in memory for this one! If the temperature at any time exceeds 140 C then the wax element is permanently destroyed. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holder" <rholder@avnet.co.uk> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:16 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil Thermostat > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk> > > Duncan McFadyean wrote: > >> The temperature at which the waxstat opens is usually >> stamped on the end of the insert (located inside the >> thermostat). > > Yes, it may be. I will look at it when I strip it all out > again ! Would the waxstat go from closed to open in just a > few degrees - so if it is stamped say 80 it would start at > 75 and be fully open at 85, or would it be even tighter > controlled than that ? > > Thanks ! > > Richard > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:55:14 PM PST US
    From: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
    Subject: Re: Oil Thermostat
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com> Duncan, If the waxstat fails does it fail open, closed or in the position where it failed. regards, MP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:43 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil Thermostat > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" > <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> > > Yes they do (i.e. open very rapidly within a few degrees) around the > temperature that they are 'rated' for, and close less rapidly. If you try > it > in water you'll see what I mean; an element rated at 80 will be doing next > to nothing at around 78, then be fully open by about 82. > Having to dig deep in memory for this one! > If the temperature at any time exceeds 140 C then the wax element is > permanently destroyed. > > Duncan McF.


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:00:09 PM PST US
    From: "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
    Subject: Oil Thermostat
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info> If this is the inline oil stat available from Think Automotive the figure they gave me were starts to open 73 degrees fully open 79 degrees. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Duncan McFadyean Sent: 23 January 2006 21:44 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil Thermostat --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> Yes they do (i.e. open very rapidly within a few degrees) around the temperature that they are 'rated' for, and close less rapidly. If you try it in water you'll see what I mean; an element rated at 80 will be doing next to nothing at around 78, then be fully open by about 82. Having to dig deep in memory for this one! If the temperature at any time exceeds 140 C then the wax element is permanently destroyed. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holder" <rholder@avnet.co.uk> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:16 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil Thermostat > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk> > > Duncan McFadyean wrote: > >> The temperature at which the waxstat opens is usually >> stamped on the end of the insert (located inside the >> thermostat). > > Yes, it may be. I will look at it when I strip it all out > again ! Would the waxstat go from closed to open in just a > few degrees - so if it is stamped say 80 it would start at > 75 and be fully open at 85, or would it be even tighter > controlled than that ? > > Thanks ! > > Richard > > > -- 20/01/2006 -- 20/01/2006


    Message 13


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    Time: 03:16:22 PM PST US
    From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Oil Thermostat
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> More often in the open position, AFAIK. Cars with failed thermostats tend to run cold, rather than the reverse. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:53 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil Thermostat > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" > <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com> > > Duncan, > > If the waxstat fails does it fail open, closed or in the position where it > failed. > > regards, > > MP > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:43 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil Thermostat > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" >> <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> >> >> Yes they do (i.e. open very rapidly within a few degrees) around the >> temperature that they are 'rated' for, and close less rapidly. If you try >> it >> in water you'll see what I mean; an element rated at 80 will be doing >> next >> to nothing at around 78, then be fully open by about 82. >> Having to dig deep in memory for this one! >> If the temperature at any time exceeds 140 C then the wax element is >> permanently destroyed. >> >> Duncan McF. > > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 04:26:52 PM PST US
    From: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
    Subject: Message for Ron Parigoris
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net> Excuse the need to do this, but Ron asked an email Q of me, but I can't email him. His ISP bounces 'em. Answer is 6483 Carter Blvd., Mentor, OH 44060. do not archive Fred F.


    Message 15


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    Time: 06:51:30 PM PST US
    Subject: Pre-heating a Rotax?
    From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> What are those flying doing to pre-heat your Rotax? Nothing? Forced air? Water-heater? http://www.ultralightnews.ca/heaters/enginepreheater.htm Some form of Tanis? http://www.tanisaircraft.com/ Or??? Thx. Ron Parigoris


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:55:06 PM PST US
    From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
    Subject: Pre-heating a Rotax?
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net> Ron, I am using a Bob Reiff preheater. It has a patch on the block and a band that goes around the oil tank. The heater on the oil tank has a thermostat on it. With what I know now I think I would have just bought a couple of heater pads from JC Whitney and made up a thermostat myself. I would have cost me $90.00 instead of $200 some dollars. With that said, the Bob Reiff product does the job quite nicely. Paul




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