Europa-List Digest Archive

Thu 02/02/06


Total Messages Posted: 9



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 07:31 AM - Maximum gross weight of MG in US (Rob Neils, Ph.D.)
     2. 11:45 AM - Complete Europa Being Parted Out (adam.bruss@gdmac.com)
     3. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: Rotax regulator (=?iso-8859-1?Q?hans_j=F8rgen_danielsen?=)
     4. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: Sun N Fun (Bryan Allsop)
     5. 02:21 PM - Re: Sun n Fun (Bryan Allsop)
     6. 04:34 PM - Re: Maximum gross weight of MG in US (SPurpura@aol.com)
     7. 06:11 PM - Re: Complete Europa Being Parted Out (Fred Fillinger)
     8. 07:10 PM - Official Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) (Matt Dralle)
     9. 09:37 PM - Re: Complete Europa Being Parted Out (Paul Boulet)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 07:31:29 AM PST US
    From: "Rob Neils, Ph.D." <robneils@qwest.net>
    Subject: Maximum gross weight of MG in US
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Neils, Ph.D." <robneils@qwest.net> I'm about to have my certification inspection. I want to get my Europa Motorglider certified at the highest maximum gross weight allowable within by design limitations and legal definitions. My Europa MG is a tri-gear with a Rotax 914 Turbo, an AirMaster prop, and oxygen. I live within the northern Rocky Mountains of the US and anticipate enjoying many high altitude wave flights. Does anyone on the list have what I need and be willing to share it? I need: * An official Weight and Balance statement documenting the increased Gross Weight allowable for a Europa motorglider built in the US. * A graph showing the CG envelop for first and subsequent flights for a motorglider at the 1450 pound max gross weight limit. ................................................................. >From what I understand the US doesn't require the "PFA Superfactor" (safety factor of 1.5 for composite structures) so the maximum gross weight limit on Europa motorgliders in the US can be increased 1450 pounds and still be within design limitations. Meeting the legal definition of a motorglider in the US is problematic. In the US Motorgliders are defined by the FAA (Feds Against Aviation) in Advisory Circular 21.17-2A which states that a motorglider must meet these criteria: 1. Maximum weight not to exceed 1874 pounds (850 kilograms); and 2. Maximum Span Loading (weight to wing span squared) not to exceed 0.62 pounds per square foot (3.0kg/square meter). I figure that a Europa MG doesn't meet the US Maximum Span Loading if its wingspan is only 48 feet and its weight is 1450 (48 squared is 2304 and 1450 / 2304 = .629 which is greater than 0.62, thus exceeding the Maximum Span Loading criterion). I've added wingtip navigation and strobe lights which have extended my Europa MG's wing span to 48.67 feet. My Europa therefore just meets the US Span Loading criterion (48.67 squared is 2368.77and 1450 / 2368.77 = 0.612 which is less than 0.62 thereby just meeting the US Span Loading criterion). The Advisory Circular 21.17-2A was updated April 2004. It is available on the internet at http://webpages.charter.net/engreenwell/ASA/Motorglider_criteria_2004.pdf. It addresses the Europa specifically as a "powered glider."


    Message 2


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    Time: 11:45:13 AM PST US
    From: adam.bruss@gdmac.com
    Subject: Complete Europa Being Parted Out
    --> Europa-List message posted by: adam.bruss@gdmac.com Unfortunately I have to sell my Europa. For liability reasons I am paring it out. This is a completed, flying and proven aircraft. Please visit www.gdmac.com/Europa.htm (use the exact address as typed here the E in Europa needs to be capitalized to get to the page) for complete details and pictures weight/balance, static load test, pricing etc..... Adam Bruss


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:08:19 PM PST US
    From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?hans_j=F8rgen_danielsen?= <hansjd@online.no>
    Subject: Re: Rotax regulator
    --> Europa-List message posted by: =?iso-8859-1?Q?hans_j=F8rgen_danielsen?= <hansjd@online.no> Hi William It might be a good idea - if you havn't done so already - to check the grounding wire(s) and connections from the rectifier housing. Poor connections in this area will certainly ruin your day! Best wishes, Hans - hansjd@online.no ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:26 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax regulator > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > <william@wrmills.plus.com> > > Thanks John and Gilles, > I'm afraid I don't have a schematic, but I have several hundred hours with > the same loading regime and I have noticed a change in the readings on the > VDO voltmeter over the past 3 months or so. It is also intermittent. I > will check all my connections, however. Would a smear of grease help to > maintain a good connection? > B w, > William > > Do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gilles Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:57 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax regulator > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee >> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> >> >> William Mills a crit : >> >>>Do you consider the Rotax regulator could develop an intermittent fault >>>so >>>that it is not always charging at full capacity? I have noticed in >>>flight >>>that sometimes the voltmeter drops to about 13 V and other times it stays >>>at >>>14 V (13.8, I presume). Last time I brought the aircraft home the >>>battery >>>was not full charged and needed some time on the charger to top it up. >>>The >>>battery is an Odyssey PC680 and is only one year old. >>>Many thanks, >>> >>> >> Richard and all, >> >> It would be interesting to study what electrical devices are on, and >> what the engine RPM are, versus voltmeter readings. It is normal to see >> the bus voltage drop when the current draw is high. It also depends on >> the battery state of charge. >> >> Now, if there is a problem, yes the regulator could be the culprit, but >> there are so many other causes to investigate. >> Frequent problems are faulty wiring, especially the connection between >> the regulator case and the ship's ground. Remember your 14-18 charging >> amps flow through this connection. >> Every connection in the circuit should be checked for tightness, absence >> of corrosion, correct wire gauge, etc. >> Also, you need a thorough load analysis in order to be sure your >> permanent draw does not exceed 10-12 amps. And remember the alternator >> delivers power when RPM is sufficient, that is around 5000 RPM. >> >> Do you have a schematic of your aircraft circuit ? >> >> Regards, >> Gilles Thesee >> Grenoble, France >> http://contrails.free.fr >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> 27/01/2006 >> >> > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 02:13:40 PM PST US
    From: "Bryan Allsop" <bryan@blackballclub.com>
    Subject: Re: Sun N Fun
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" <bryan@blackballclub.com> Hi Garry! I look forward to meeting you again. My US phone is 407 346 0629. Cheers! Bryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garry" <garrys@tampabay.rr.com> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 1:51 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sun N Fun > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" <garrys@tampabay.rr.com> > > Great idea Bryan! I will be going to Sun 'N Fun too, but don't know > exactly > which day or days. I love the idea of setting an 11:00 AM meeting at the > Europa booth every day. > > Garry Stout > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bryan Allsop" <bryan@blackballclub.com> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:01 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sun N Fun > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" >> <bryan@blackballclub.com> >> >> I will be there for some of the days. Would it be an idea to have a >> rendezvous point at a specific time of the day for the five days? That >> way >> we can all join up without prior arrangements. For example: 11 am at the >> Europa centre. >> >> If a list evolves, I would like to be on it. >> >> Bryan Allsop. G-BYSA Mono XS >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bill Henderson" <europabill@bellsouth.net> >> To: <europa-list@matronics.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 11:52 AM >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sun N Fun >> >> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bill Henderson" >>> <europabill@bellsouth.net> >>> >>> I'm going to Sun-n-Fun and woudl very much like to get together with my >>> fellow Europa builders. I'll be there Tuesday through Friday. If >>> nothing >>> else, maybe we can all meet at the Europa booth at a designated time. >>> Any >>> chance Andy might be able to arrange something "official"? Maybe we >>> could >>> be nice and take Andy and John out to dinner....... >>> >>> Please add me to the list. >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 02:21:57 PM PST US
    From: "Bryan Allsop" <bryan@blackballclub.com>
    Subject: Re: Sun n Fun
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" <bryan@blackballclub.com> It looks like the daily 11am meet-up at the Europa tent has become adopted. I will try to wear something with a Europa thingy on it. I will have a chat with the factory folks to see if they can fix us up with something that identifies us for the sake of late comers, etc. Cheers. Bryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" <N914VA@starband.net> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 4:17 AM Subject: Europa-List: Sun n Fun > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" > <N914VA@starband.net> > > The 11:00 meeting time at the europa tent sounds good to me also. No > lists-plain and simple-like me. > > Vaughn Teegarden > N914VA Mono XS > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:34:31 PM PST US
    From: SPurpura@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Maximum gross weight of MG in US
    --> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com I BELIEVE THAT THE BUILDER CAN SPECIFY ANY WEIGHT HE WANT'S TO THE FAA.


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:11:06 PM PST US
    From: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Complete Europa Being Parted Out
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net> adam.bruss@gdmac.com wrote: > For liability reasons I am parting it out. You can be conservative as you wish, but numerous articles out there by attorneys don't get excited about builder liability. Litigation here is rare enough to be considered virtually nonexistent (EAA says it hasn't happened yet). The problems are: a) Most always no deep pockets for this kind of suit; b) No strict liability -- must prove builder error and that the error was negligent under possibly a low standard of care; and c) Jury reaction. A grieving widow never helps, but still, to a jury small planes are dangerous. The concept of homebuilts is unfathomable. What assumptions was the buyer making? So, to punish a defendant like themselves, it must be technically proven to them that the builder did something really wrong, and the buyer had a right to expect better. To play safe anyway, burn your construction log. Save the build manual, so you have a record of the revisions used. Have a reputable A&P do a condition inspection. He signs the log on a blank page, which you carefully remove and save. Buyer doesn't know about that; it implies assurance of safety (I muse at ads which say "built by an A&P"). Don't make any statements about its safety. If asked, merely refer the seller to the NTSB web site. Re anything not done per the manual, save any documentation it works just fine on other Europas or other homebuilts. A case in point is the John Denver case, where a jury might try to punish anybody for causing that particular death. And the builder appears faulted in this one. Yet reportedly the builder didn't have to pay anything. It was settled with two corporations who had little to do with the cause of the crash. One of the articles warns of liability in parting it out, to the extent there is concern over exposure. You're liable as to the parts sold in the same way as the assembled plane, and placing them into multiple hands for uses unknown. There's deep pockets behind the engine and instruments, but you're potentially liable as to fiberglass structure and any other component you fabricated or assembled. Of course, and similar to Lucy's booth in the Peanuts cartoon -- "Legal Advice - 5 cents." :-) Fred F.


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:10:49 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> Dear Listers, Please read over the Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Europa-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Europa-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. 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    Message 9


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    Time: 09:37:25 PM PST US
    From: Paul Boulet <possibletodo@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Complete Europa Being Parted Out
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Boulet <possibletodo@yahoo.com> Thanks Fred. I think you did the Europa community a great service with this information and opinion. I'm nearly finished with my tri gear conversion and will be selling it after I finish flying the 40 hours off. Your comments could not have been more timely Paul Boulet, N914PB for sale and NOT parting out ----- Original Message ---- From: Fred Fillinger <n3eu@comcast.net> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 18:03:21 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Complete Europa Being Parted Out --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net> adam.bruss@gdmac.com wrote: > For liability reasons I am parting it out. You can be conservative as you wish, but numerous articles out there by attorneys don't get excited about builder liability. Litigation here is rare enough to be considered virtually nonexistent (EAA says it hasn't happened yet). The problems are: a) Most always no deep pockets for this kind of suit; b) No strict liability -- must prove builder error and that the error was negligent under possibly a low standard of care; and c) Jury reaction. A grieving widow never helps, but still, to a jury small planes are dangerous. The concept of homebuilts is unfathomable. What assumptions was the buyer making? So, to punish a defendant like themselves, it must be technically proven to them that the builder did something really wrong, and the buyer had a right to expect better. To play safe anyway, burn your construction log. Save the build manual, so you have a record of the revisions used. Have a reputable A&P do a condition inspection. He signs the log on a blank page, which you carefully remove and save. Buyer doesn't know about that; it implies assurance of safety (I muse at ads which say "built by an A&P"). Don't make any statements about its safety. If asked, merely refer the seller to the NTSB web site. Re anything not done per the manual, save any documentation it works just fine on other Europas or other homebuilts. A case in point is the John Denver case, where a jury might try to punish anybody for causing that particular death. And the builder appears faulted in this one. Yet reportedly the builder didn't have to pay anything. It was settled with two corporations who had little to do with the cause of the crash. One of the articles warns of liability in parting it out, to the extent there is concern over exposure. You're liable as to the parts sold in the same way as the assembled plane, and placing them into multiple hands for uses unknown. There's deep pockets behind the engine and instruments, but you're potentially liable as to fiberglass structure and any other component you fabricated or assembled. Of course, and similar to Lucy's booth in the Peanuts cartoon -- "Legal Advice - 5 cents." :-) Fred F.




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