Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:10 AM - Re: Re: Rotax regulator (William Mills)
2. 02:48 AM - Re: Re: Rotax regulator (Brian Davies)
3. 02:48 AM - Terminals (Richard Holder)
4. 05:17 AM - Re: Mounting 914 waste gate servo (ivor.phillips)
5. 06:57 AM - Re: Sun n Fun (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
6. 06:57 AM - Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Complete Europa Being Parted Out (adam.bruss@gdmac.com)
7. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: Rotax regulator (R.C.Harrison)
8. 07:54 AM - Re: Sun n Fun (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com)
9. 08:18 AM - Legal points (Fergus Kyle)
10. 08:18 AM - Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Complete Europa Being Parted Out (R.C.Harrison)
11. 08:22 AM - MotorGlider Certification (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu)
12. 08:39 AM - XS trailer..... (Fergus Kyle)
13. 12:37 PM - Which Prop (Peter Rees)
14. 01:49 PM - Re: XS trailer..... ()
15. 02:24 PM - Re: XS trailer..... (Bill Henderson)
16. 03:15 PM - Re: Which Prop (Terry Seaver (terrys))
17. 03:29 PM - Re: Which Prop (Bryan Allsop)
18. 03:48 PM - Which Prop (Richard Holder)
19. 08:43 PM - Re: Which Prop (lmorgan822@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax regulator |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
Many thanks, Hans,
I will certainly do that.
I was hoping one of the experts would comment on my suggestion to put a
smear of grease on all the earthing terminals to improve contact and prevent
corrosion.
Best wishes,
William
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "hans jrgen danielsen" <hansjd@online.no>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax regulator
> --> Europa-List message posted by:
> =?iso-8859-1?Q?hans_j=F8rgen_danielsen?= <hansjd@online.no>
>
> Hi William
>
> It might be a good idea - if you havn't done so already - to check the
> grounding wire(s) and connections from the rectifier housing. Poor
> connections in this area will certainly ruin your day!
>
> Best wishes, Hans - hansjd@online.no
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax regulator
>
>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills"
>> <william@wrmills.plus.com>
>>
>> Thanks John and Gilles,
>> I'm afraid I don't have a schematic, but I have several hundred hours
>> with
>> the same loading regime and I have noticed a change in the readings on
>> the
>> VDO voltmeter over the past 3 months or so. It is also intermittent. I
>> will check all my connections, however. Would a smear of grease help to
>> maintain a good connection?
>> B w,
>> William
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gilles Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax regulator
>>
>>
>>> --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee
>>> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>>>
>>> William Mills a crit :
>>>
>>>>Do you consider the Rotax regulator could develop an intermittent fault
>>>>so
>>>>that it is not always charging at full capacity? I have noticed in
>>>>flight
>>>>that sometimes the voltmeter drops to about 13 V and other times it
>>>>stays
>>>>at
>>>>14 V (13.8, I presume). Last time I brought the aircraft home the
>>>>battery
>>>>was not full charged and needed some time on the charger to top it up.
>>>>The
>>>>battery is an Odyssey PC680 and is only one year old.
>>>>Many thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Richard and all,
>>>
>>> It would be interesting to study what electrical devices are on, and
>>> what the engine RPM are, versus voltmeter readings. It is normal to see
>>> the bus voltage drop when the current draw is high. It also depends on
>>> the battery state of charge.
>>>
>>> Now, if there is a problem, yes the regulator could be the culprit, but
>>> there are so many other causes to investigate.
>>> Frequent problems are faulty wiring, especially the connection between
>>> the regulator case and the ship's ground. Remember your 14-18 charging
>>> amps flow through this connection.
>>> Every connection in the circuit should be checked for tightness, absence
>>> of corrosion, correct wire gauge, etc.
>>> Also, you need a thorough load analysis in order to be sure your
>>> permanent draw does not exceed 10-12 amps. And remember the alternator
>>> delivers power when RPM is sufficient, that is around 5000 RPM.
>>>
>>> Do you have a schematic of your aircraft circuit ?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Gilles Thesee
>>> Grenoble, France
>>> http://contrails.free.fr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 27/01/2006
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax regulator |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
Hi William,
A smear of grease might be Ok after you have connected the earth terminals
but not before. You want the best possible electrical contact and this
requires a chemically clean joint- grease on the contact face is not good.
Brian Davies kit 454
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Mills
Sent: 03 February 2006 10:02
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax regulator
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills"
<william@wrmills.plus.com>
Many thanks, Hans,
I will certainly do that.
I was hoping one of the experts would comment on my suggestion to put a
smear of grease on all the earthing terminals to improve contact and prevent
corrosion.
Best wishes,
William
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "hans jrgen danielsen" <hansjd@online.no>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax regulator
> --> Europa-List message posted by:
> =?iso-8859-1?Q?hans_j=F8rgen_danielsen?= <hansjd@online.no>
>
> Hi William
>
> It might be a good idea - if you havn't done so already - to check the
> grounding wire(s) and connections from the rectifier housing. Poor
> connections in this area will certainly ruin your day!
>
> Best wishes, Hans - hansjd@online.no
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax regulator
>
>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills"
>> <william@wrmills.plus.com>
>>
>> Thanks John and Gilles,
>> I'm afraid I don't have a schematic, but I have several hundred hours
>> with
>> the same loading regime and I have noticed a change in the readings on
>> the
>> VDO voltmeter over the past 3 months or so. It is also intermittent. I
>> will check all my connections, however. Would a smear of grease help to
>> maintain a good connection?
>> B w,
>> William
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gilles Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax regulator
>>
>>
>>> --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee
>>> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>>>
>>> William Mills a crit :
>>>
>>>>Do you consider the Rotax regulator could develop an intermittent fault
>>>>so
>>>>that it is not always charging at full capacity? I have noticed in
>>>>flight
>>>>that sometimes the voltmeter drops to about 13 V and other times it
>>>>stays
>>>>at
>>>>14 V (13.8, I presume). Last time I brought the aircraft home the
>>>>battery
>>>>was not full charged and needed some time on the charger to top it up.
>>>>The
>>>>battery is an Odyssey PC680 and is only one year old.
>>>>Many thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Richard and all,
>>>
>>> It would be interesting to study what electrical devices are on, and
>>> what the engine RPM are, versus voltmeter readings. It is normal to see
>>> the bus voltage drop when the current draw is high. It also depends on
>>> the battery state of charge.
>>>
>>> Now, if there is a problem, yes the regulator could be the culprit, but
>>> there are so many other causes to investigate.
>>> Frequent problems are faulty wiring, especially the connection between
>>> the regulator case and the ship's ground. Remember your 14-18 charging
>>> amps flow through this connection.
>>> Every connection in the circuit should be checked for tightness, absence
>>> of corrosion, correct wire gauge, etc.
>>> Also, you need a thorough load analysis in order to be sure your
>>> permanent draw does not exceed 10-12 amps. And remember the alternator
>>> delivers power when RPM is sufficient, that is around 5000 RPM.
>>>
>>> Do you have a schematic of your aircraft circuit ?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Gilles Thesee
>>> Grenoble, France
>>> http://contrails.free.fr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 27/01/2006
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
--
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
William Mills wrote:
> I was hoping one of the experts would comment on my
> suggestion to put a smear of grease on all the earthing
> terminals to improve contact and prevent corrosion.
Whilst I am definitely NOT an expert I would say that
ordinary grease would prevent corrosion it will not
enhance conductivity.
What you really need if you are so concerned is "graphite
grease' which conducts and reduces corrosion. But if it
heats up and melts and flows then you will have a bigger
problem.
I would have recommended on assembly making sure
everything is really clean and bright. Doing up the
bolts/terminals nice and firm and then applying some
Vaseline to the outside. Just a smear to keep the moisture
and air out of the interfaces between the connector.
HTH from a non-expert !
Richard
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Mounting 914 waste gate servo |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
Ferg
I used slightly longer AN 3 bolts so i could put the ancor nuts inside the
tunnel, Where in my opion they should be!
> to mount the subject item on the 'tunnel top' with MS21047-4 anchor nuts
> On
> top (Manual accent)
> of the tunnel. I can't see why, since the servo would then depend on four
> 3/32 inch rivets through the 1/8inch composite.
Ivor
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: jimpuglise@comcast.net
Bryan-
The old company sold Europa baseball caps. Lynne (wife) and I will have ours on
at Lakeland. It may be worth seeing if Andy can bring a handfull.
Jim-A283
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Bryan Allsop" <bryan@blackballclub.com>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop"
>
> It looks like the daily 11am meet-up at the Europa tent has become adopted.
>
> I will try to wear something with a Europa thingy on it. I will have a chat
> with the factory folks to see if they can fix us up with something that
> identifies us for the sake of late comers, etc.
>
> Cheers. Bryan
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 4:17 AM
> Subject: Europa-List: Sun n Fun
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden"
> >
> >
> > The 11:00 meeting time at the europa tent sounds good to me also. No
> > lists-plain and simple-like me.
> >
> > Vaughn Teegarden
> > N914VA Mono XS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Bryan-
The old company sold Europa baseball caps. Lynne (wife) and I will have ours on
at Lakeland. It may be worth seeing if Andy can bring a handfull.
Jim-A283
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Bryan Allsop" bryan@blackballclub.com
-- Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" <BRYAN@BLACKBALLCLUB.COM>
It looks like the daily 11am meet-up at the Europa tent has become adopted.
I will try to wear something with a Europa thingy on it. I will have a chat
with the factory folks to see if they can fix us up with something that
identifies us for the sake of late comers, etc.
Cheers. Bryan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vaughn Gaye Teegarden" <N914VA@STARBAND.NET>
To: <EUROPA-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 4:17 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Sun n Fun
-- Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Gaye Teegar
den"
<N914VA@STARBAND.NET>
The 11:00 meeting time at the europa tent sounds good to me also. No
lists-plain and simple-like me.
Vaughn Teegarden
N914VA Mono XS
===========
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Complete Europa Being Parted Out |
--> Europa-List message posted by: adam.bruss@gdmac.com
Fred:
Thank you for your opinion.
However for my particular situation, your advise is not correct. I have
consulted my attorney at length about this. Your arguments do not take
into consideration that a great deal of money was spent defending
against frivolous lawsuits. Even if settled, some were unable to recoup
the defense expenses. Just because there has not been a successful law
suit prosecuted, does not exclude the builder from spending large
amounts of money to defend their positions. I for one would not want to
battle the John Denver Estate's resources no matter what my position was.
Posting what amounts to a personal opinion concerning a complex legal
issue as this on a email bulletin board may not be in the best interest
of the builders community. Each builder should seek there own legal
advise for such matters.
Thank you for your comments
Adam
Fred Fillinger wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
>
>adam.bruss@gdmac.com wrote:
>
>
>
>>For liability reasons I am parting it out.
>>
>>
>
>You can be conservative as you wish, but numerous articles
>out there by attorneys don't get excited about builder
>liability. Litigation here is rare enough to be considered
>virtually nonexistent (EAA says it hasn't happened yet).
>The problems are: a) Most always no deep pockets for this
>kind of suit; b) No strict liability -- must prove builder
>error and that the error was negligent under possibly a low
>standard of care; and c) Jury reaction. A grieving widow
>never helps, but still, to a jury small planes are
>dangerous. The concept of homebuilts is unfathomable. What
>assumptions was the buyer making? So, to punish a defendant
>like themselves, it must be technically proven to them that
>the builder did something really wrong, and the buyer had a
>right to expect better.
>To play safe anyway, burn your construction log. Save the
>build manual, so you have a record of the revisions used.
>Have a reputable A&P do a condition inspection. He signs
>the log on a blank page, which you carefully remove and
>save. Buyer doesn't know about that; it implies assurance
>of safety (I muse at ads which say "built by an A&P").
>Don't make any statements about its safety. If asked,
>merely refer the seller to the NTSB web site. Re anything
>not done per the manual, save any documentation it works
>just fine on other Europas or other homebuilts.
>
>A case in point is the John Denver case, where a jury might
>try to punish anybody for causing that particular death.
>And the builder appears faulted in this one. Yet reportedly
>the builder didn't have to pay anything. It was settled
>with two corporations who had little to do with the cause of
>the crash.
>
>One of the articles warns of liability in parting it out, to
>the extent there is concern over exposure. You're liable as
>to the parts sold in the same way as the assembled plane,
>and placing them into multiple hands for uses unknown.
>There's deep pockets behind the engine and instruments, but
>you're potentially liable as to fiberglass structure and any
>other component you fabricated or assembled.
>
>Of course, and similar to Lucy's booth in the Peanuts
>cartoon -- "Legal Advice - 5 cents." :-)
>
>Fred F.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax regulator |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! William
My experiences indicate that the grease you need is electrical silicone
grease and is mostly available now in an aerosol can dispenser.
Of course you knew this anyway !!!!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Mills
Sent: 03 February 2006 10:02
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax regulator
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills"
<william@wrmills.plus.com>
Many thanks, Hans,
I will certainly do that.
I was hoping one of the experts would comment on my suggestion to put a
smear of grease on all the earthing terminals to improve contact and
prevent
corrosion.
Best wishes,
William
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "hans jrgen danielsen" <hansjd@online.no>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax regulator
> --> Europa-List message posted by:
> =?iso-8859-1?Q?hans_j=F8rgen_danielsen?= <hansjd@online.no>
>
> Hi William
>
> It might be a good idea - if you havn't done so already - to check the
> grounding wire(s) and connections from the rectifier housing. Poor
> connections in this area will certainly ruin your day!
>
> Best wishes, Hans - hansjd@online.no
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 7:26 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax regulator
>
>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills"
>> <william@wrmills.plus.com>
>>
>> Thanks John and Gilles,
>> I'm afraid I don't have a schematic, but I have several hundred hours
>> with
>> the same loading regime and I have noticed a change in the readings
on
>> the
>> VDO voltmeter over the past 3 months or so. It is also intermittent.
I
>> will check all my connections, however. Would a smear of grease help
to
>> maintain a good connection?
>> B w,
>> William
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gilles Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax regulator
>>
>>
>>> --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee
>>> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>>>
>>> William Mills a crit :
>>>
>>>>Do you consider the Rotax regulator could develop an intermittent
fault
>>>>so
>>>>that it is not always charging at full capacity? I have noticed in
>>>>flight
>>>>that sometimes the voltmeter drops to about 13 V and other times it
>>>>stays
>>>>at
>>>>14 V (13.8, I presume). Last time I brought the aircraft home the
>>>>battery
>>>>was not full charged and needed some time on the charger to top it
up.
>>>>The
>>>>battery is an Odyssey PC680 and is only one year old.
>>>>Many thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Richard and all,
>>>
>>> It would be interesting to study what electrical devices are on, and
>>> what the engine RPM are, versus voltmeter readings. It is normal to
see
>>> the bus voltage drop when the current draw is high. It also depends
on
>>> the battery state of charge.
>>>
>>> Now, if there is a problem, yes the regulator could be the culprit,
but
>>> there are so many other causes to investigate.
>>> Frequent problems are faulty wiring, especially the connection
between
>>> the regulator case and the ship's ground. Remember your 14-18
charging
>>> amps flow through this connection.
>>> Every connection in the circuit should be checked for tightness,
absence
>>> of corrosion, correct wire gauge, etc.
>>> Also, you need a thorough load analysis in order to be sure your
>>> permanent draw does not exceed 10-12 amps. And remember the
alternator
>>> delivers power when RPM is sufficient, that is around 5000 RPM.
>>>
>>> Do you have a schematic of your aircraft circuit ?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Gilles Thesee
>>> Grenoble, France
>>> http://contrails.free.fr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 27/01/2006
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
As I've got a cap and an umbrella, I'm tempted to take the 2 day drive
down, however I've finally received Transport Canada approval on my Sky
drive carb heat, so am also dreaming of flying off the hours about then.
Will see what the weather does in the next couple of months.
Dave
A061 , C-FBZI
jimpuglise@comcast.net
Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
02/03/2006 09:53 AM
Please respond to europa-list
To: europa-list@matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Sun n Fun
--> Europa-List message posted by: jimpuglise@comcast.net
Bryan-
The old company sold Europa baseball caps. Lynne (wife) and I will have
ours on at Lakeland. It may be worth seeing if Andy can bring a handfull.
Jim-A283
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Bryan Allsop" <bryan@blackballclub.com>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop"
>
> It looks like the daily 11am meet-up at the Europa tent has become
adopted.
>
> I will try to wear something with a Europa thingy on it. I will have a
chat
> with the factory folks to see if they can fix us up with something that
> identifies us for the sake of late comers, etc.
>
> Cheers. Bryan
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 4:17 AM
> Subject: Europa-List: Sun n Fun
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden"
> >
> >
> > The 11:00 meeting time at the europa tent sounds good to me also. No
> > lists-plain and simple-like me.
> >
> > Vaughn Teegarden
> > N914VA Mono XS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Bryan-
The old company sold Europa baseball caps. Lynne (wife) and I will have
ours on at Lakeland. It may be worth seeing if Andy can bring a handfull.
Jim-A283
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Bryan Allsop" bryan@blackballclub.com
-- Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop"
<BRYAN@BLACKBALLCLUB.COM>
It looks like the daily 11am meet-up at the Europa tent has become
adopted.
I will try to wear something with a Europa thingy on it. I will have a
chat
with the factory folks to see if they can fix us up with something that
identifies us for the sake of late comers, etc.
Cheers. Bryan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vaughn Gaye Teegarden" <N914VA@STARBAND.NET>
To: <EUROPA-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 4:17 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Sun n Fun
-- Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Gaye Teegar
den"
<N914VA@STARBAND.NET>
The 11:00 meeting time at the europa tent sounds good to me also. No
lists-plain and simple-like me.
Vaughn Teegarden
N914VA Mono XS
===========
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Fred F:
Thanks for the run-down on your appreciation of legal
entanglements in selling Europa/bits. While they don't apply here
(probably), being aware of various points is most interesting.
Thank you,
Ferg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Complete Europa Being Parted Out |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Ahmen! And give the pigs a bigger trough to get their snouts in.
All in my humble "ill considered opinion!" without, of course,prejudice!
Bob Harrison. G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
adam.bruss@gdmac.com
Sent: 03 February 2006 14:52
Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: Europa-List: Complete Europa Being
Parted Out
--> Europa-List message posted by: adam.bruss@gdmac.com
Fred:
Thank you for your opinion.
However for my particular situation, your advise is not correct. I have
consulted my attorney at length about this. Your arguments do not take
into consideration that a great deal of money was spent defending
against frivolous lawsuits. Even if settled, some were unable to recoup
the defense expenses. Just because there has not been a successful law
suit prosecuted, does not exclude the builder from spending large
amounts of money to defend their positions. I for one would not want to
battle the John Denver Estate's resources no matter what my position
was.
Posting what amounts to a personal opinion concerning a complex legal
issue as this on a email bulletin board may not be in the best interest
of the builders community. Each builder should seek there own legal
advise for such matters.
Thank you for your comments
Adam
Fred Fillinger wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
>
>adam.bruss@gdmac.com wrote:
>
>
>
>>For liability reasons I am parting it out.
>>
>>
>
>You can be conservative as you wish, but numerous articles
>out there by attorneys don't get excited about builder
>liability. Litigation here is rare enough to be considered
>virtually nonexistent (EAA says it hasn't happened yet).
>The problems are: a) Most always no deep pockets for this
>kind of suit; b) No strict liability -- must prove builder
>error and that the error was negligent under possibly a low
>standard of care; and c) Jury reaction. A grieving widow
>never helps, but still, to a jury small planes are
>dangerous. The concept of homebuilts is unfathomable. What
>assumptions was the buyer making? So, to punish a defendant
>like themselves, it must be technically proven to them that
>the builder did something really wrong, and the buyer had a
>right to expect better.
>To play safe anyway, burn your construction log. Save the
>build manual, so you have a record of the revisions used.
>Have a reputable A&P do a condition inspection. He signs
>the log on a blank page, which you carefully remove and
>save. Buyer doesn't know about that; it implies assurance
>of safety (I muse at ads which say "built by an A&P").
>Don't make any statements about its safety. If asked,
>merely refer the seller to the NTSB web site. Re anything
>not done per the manual, save any documentation it works
>just fine on other Europas or other homebuilts.
>
>A case in point is the John Denver case, where a jury might
>try to punish anybody for causing that particular death.
>And the builder appears faulted in this one. Yet reportedly
>the builder didn't have to pay anything. It was settled
>with two corporations who had little to do with the cause of
>the crash.
>
>One of the articles warns of liability in parting it out, to
>the extent there is concern over exposure. You're liable as
>to the parts sold in the same way as the assembled plane,
>and placing them into multiple hands for uses unknown.
>There's deep pockets behind the engine and instruments, but
>you're potentially liable as to fiberglass structure and any
>other component you fabricated or assembled.
>
>Of course, and similar to Lucy's booth in the Peanuts
>cartoon -- "Legal Advice - 5 cents." :-)
>
>Fred F.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | MotorGlider Certification |
--> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
Rob Neils wishes to know about minutiae concerning FAA airworthiness
certification of Europa MG
1) I have such a certification/Program Letter for N224XS for two years
now. The Program Letter is the controlling document.
2) Burt Compton is a well known Glider Author and CFI and I enjoy his
books on soaring but he knows
nothing about Europa, Homebuilding, or A/C certification. He and I
have discussed his issues several
times at Oshkosh and I thought he had been enlightened several years
ago. Your information may be old.
3) AC 21-17-2b is totally irrelevant to the Europa, It applies only to
Part 21 Aircraft with official
Type Certification. It plays no regulatory role at all in homebuilt
aircraft. Its definitions do not
apply to to Special Airworthiness Certification - Owner Built A/C.
For homebuilts, the official
requirement is: "intent to use as a glider" and installation of a
feathering prop with glider wings
from factory kit is adequate presumptive evidence.
4) My Certification / Program Letter is actually conditional:
With Short wings installed, N224XS is an airplane, with Long
wings installed it is a self-launching glider
The program letter goes on to declare that the A/C is eligible
and approprate for DAY/NIGHT VFR/IFR
in keeping with 91.205 (and 224XS is fully loaded)
5) For homebuilt A/C, the Gross weight and the CG envelope are just what
YOU the Builder say it is. Period.
6) If you have a DAR who is not "comfortable" or knowledgable with
homebuilts, find another, you can
shop for one as much as you please. The EAA can help. For example,
FlightCrafts was recommending
a local old codger DAR I think because he was cheap for his services.
Unfortunately, he refused to declare
long winged Europas as motorgliders (because he was unfamilar with the
actual rules.). One or more Europa
builders were burned on this. I called EAA and they gave me several
name to call. Several of these DARs
were quite knowledgeable and comfortable writing the Program Letter
the exact way I wanted it. The one
I selected did an excellent, thorough inspection, made me start the
engine for him, fully demonstrate my EFIS system,
and signed me off. It cost more than the local codger. You get what
you pay for.
Get the Right Inspector and Have Fun! Remember the FAA is not the PFA.
No PFA nanny rules apply to you!
Ira, N224XS
Message 12
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
hello,
I am close to using the trailer (an early model) which will no
longer accomodate the extended tailwheel mod I've incorporated. I'm sure
there's a better fix than I could engineer, and am hoping some congenial
co-builder might send a phot or drawing of the requisite change......
Thanks Ferg
Message 13
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" <peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk>
I know that this may descend into the mono vs tri-gear, 912s vs 914
arguements but I'll ask the question anyway:
G-MFHI is fitted with a 912 fitted with a coursly set (18 degrees)
warpdrive - This returns a respectable 118-120kts and a rate of climb that
doesn't cause concern over the trees at Rochester.
The course setting of the prop limits the engine RPM to about 5100 so we
can't legally use the weight upgrade.
If we were to fit a VP/CS prop, we would see the requsite increase in RPM
and could therefore use the 1370 limit.
My question is - would a change to (what looks like) a prop with a more
spohisticated blade design such as the Kremen give me any advantage in the
cruise? If so, does anyone have any comments (positive or negative) which
prop (Rospellor, Kremen etc) may be more suitable to fitting to a Classic
912 - which is about to have the engine removed for sprag clutch replacement
:o(
Peter
Message 14
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--> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
Hi ferg
Can't you lengthen the tongue by bolting on a section to the original
tongue?
Tom Friedland ( have a new type trailer, bloody expensive...)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:36 AM
Subject: Europa-List: XS trailer.....
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
hello,
I am close to using the trailer (an early model) which will no
longer accomodate the extended tailwheel mod I've incorporated. I'm sure
there's a better fix than I could engineer, and am hoping some congenial
co-builder might send a phot or drawing of the requisite change...... Thanks
Ferg
--
--
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: XS trailer..... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bill Henderson" <europabill@bellsouth.net>
Ferg,
Go out to the Europa Owners site at www.europaowners.org . There are some
pictures of the tail wheel setup in Steve Crimm's album. Looks like they
just moved the tail wheel stop further down the tong of the trailer.
Bill
A010 Monowheel Classic
----- Original Message -----
From: <beecho@beecho.org>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 4:42 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: XS trailer.....
> --> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
>
> Hi ferg
>
> Can't you lengthen the tongue by bolting on a section to the original
> tongue?
>
> Tom Friedland ( have a new type trailer, bloody expensive...)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fergus Kyle
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:36 AM
> To: EUROPALIST
> Subject: Europa-List: XS trailer.....
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
> hello,
> I am close to using the trailer (an early model) which will no
> longer accomodate the extended tailwheel mod I've incorporated. I'm sure
> there's a better fix than I could engineer, and am hoping some congenial
> co-builder might send a phot or drawing of the requisite change......
> Thanks
> Ferg
>
>
> --
>
>
> --
>
>
>
Message 16
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
We flew over 100 hours with a Whirlwind 2-blade prop which looked much 'heftier'
than the Warp Drive/Airmaster props. We later-on converted over to the Airmaster
prop with Warp Drive blades. We were able to measure no difference in climb
or cruise performance, but did see an increase in braking effect with the
throttle closed, with the Warp Drive producing greater drag.
Just a random comment, for what it is worth.
Terry Seaver
A135/N135TD
Mono-wheel XS with 912S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Peter Rees
Sent: Fri 2/3/2006 12:29 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Which Prop
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" <peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk>
I know that this may descend into the mono vs tri-gear, 912s vs 914
arguements but I'll ask the question anyway:
G-MFHI is fitted with a 912 fitted with a coursly set (18 degrees)
warpdrive - This returns a respectable 118-120kts and a rate of climb that
doesn't cause concern over the trees at Rochester.
The course setting of the prop limits the engine RPM to about 5100 so we
can't legally use the weight upgrade.
If we were to fit a VP/CS prop, we would see the requsite increase in RPM
and could therefore use the 1370 limit.
My question is - would a change to (what looks like) a prop with a more
spohisticated blade design such as the Kremen give me any advantage in the
cruise? If so, does anyone have any comments (positive or negative) which
prop (Rospellor, Kremen etc) may be more suitable to fitting to a Classic
912 - which is about to have the engine removed for sprag clutch replacement
:o(
Peter
Message 17
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" <bryan@blackballclub.com>
Hi Peter,
I do not know the Rospellor prop, and can make no comparisons.
I have converted my XS to Kremin CS. This enables more efficient, smoother
performance in cruise, but does not seem to seriously improve take off
performance. You should note that the extra weight involves will seriously
detract from useful payload, possibly by as much as 20 pounds.
The consensus is that the conversion is worthwhile with the 80 horse 912 on
short fields. The 100 horse 912S makes the conversion les relevant,
particularly when using longer strips.
You will get plenty of conflicting advice on this I am sure, but my personal
opinion is that the fixed pitch did not come a poor second place. I would
not convert back now that I have spent my money (2300), but perhaps I could
have installed autopilot, or something else to more advantage with the
money.
Cheers! Bryan. G-BYSA XS Mono.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Rees" <peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 8:29 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Which Prop
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees"
> <peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> I know that this may descend into the mono vs tri-gear, 912s vs 914
> arguements but I'll ask the question anyway:
>
> G-MFHI is fitted with a 912 fitted with a coursly set (18 degrees)
> warpdrive - This returns a respectable 118-120kts and a rate of climb that
> doesn't cause concern over the trees at Rochester.
>
> The course setting of the prop limits the engine RPM to about 5100 so we
> can't legally use the weight upgrade.
>
> If we were to fit a VP/CS prop, we would see the requsite increase in RPM
> and could therefore use the 1370 limit.
>
> My question is - would a change to (what looks like) a prop with a more
> spohisticated blade design such as the Kremen give me any advantage in
> the
> cruise? If so, does anyone have any comments (positive or negative) which
> prop (Rospellor, Kremen etc) may be more suitable to fitting to a Classic
> 912 - which is about to have the engine removed for sprag clutch
> replacement
> :o(
>
> Peter
>
>
>
Message 18
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
> The course setting of the prop limits the engine RPM to
> about 5100 so we can't legally use the weight upgrade.
>
> If we were to fit a VP/CS prop, we would see the
> requsite increase in RPM and could therefore use the
> 1370 limit.
>
> My question is - would a change to (what looks like) a
> prop with a more spohisticated blade design such as the
> Kremen give me any advantage in the cruise? If so, does
> anyone have any comments (positive or negative) which
> prop (Rospellor, Kremen etc) may be more suitable to
> fitting to a Classic 912 - which is about to have the
> engine removed for sprag clutch replacement :o(
You will end up with the catch 22 position. The extended
baggage bay which increases the MTOW by 70 pounds to 1370
itself weighs at least 20 pounds !
The upgrade from Warp Drive to Airmaster with WarpDrive
adds another 10 or 15 pounds - I don't have the actual
figure in front of me.
So the extra expense and effort will only increase your
carrying capacity by 35 pounds !
Two steps forward and one step back. Net progress one step
at about 2500 !
Richard
Message 19
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--> Europa-List message posted by: lmorgan822@aol.com
Look for Vari-Prop at space 26, Sun'n'Fun. You will be pleasantly surprised!!!!!!!!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Sent: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 23:42:10 +0000
Subject: Europa-List: Which Prop
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
> The course setting of the prop limits the engine RPM to
> about 5100 so we can't legally use the weight upgrade.
>
> If we were to fit a VP/CS prop, we would see the
> requsite increase in RPM and could therefore use the
> 1370 limit.
>
> My question is - would a change to (what looks like) a
> prop with a more spohisticated blade design such as the
> Kremen give me any advantage in the cruise? If so, does
> anyone have any comments (positive or negative) which
> prop (Rospellor, Kremen etc) may be more suitable to
> fitting to a Classic 912 - which is about to have the
> engine removed for sprag clutch replacement :o(
You will end up with the catch 22 position. The extended
baggage bay which increases the MTOW by 70 pounds to 1370
itself weighs at least 20 pounds !
The upgrade from Warp Drive to Airmaster with WarpDrive
adds another 10 or 15 pounds - I don't have the actual
figure in front of me.
So the extra expense and effort will only increase your
carrying capacity by 35 pounds !
Two steps forward and one step back. Net progress one step
at about 2500 !
Richard
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