Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:51 AM - SL-30 (Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden)
2. 07:36 AM - Re: SL-30 (ivor.phillips)
3. 09:03 AM - Re: Throttle cable failure (Erich Trombley)
4. 09:18 AM - SL-30 (Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden)
5. 09:26 AM - Re: SL-30 (Rob Housman)
6. 09:56 AM - Re: SL-30 (ivor.phillips)
7. 11:05 AM - Re: Throttle cable failure (josok)
8. 11:18 AM - AW: SL-30 (Europa (Alfred Buess))
9. 11:25 AM - Re: Flap Washout (Flying Farmer)
10. 12:46 PM - Re: creation date July 2003 and not November, 2002? (Scout)
11. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: Europa - how much does it really cost? (TERRY SMITH)
12. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: Europa - how much does it really cost? (Pete Lawless)
13. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: Throttle cable failure (Pete Lawless)
14. 04:35 PM - Re: SL-30 (rlborger)
15. 04:56 PM - Re: Throttle cable failure (josok)
16. 05:29 PM - SL-30 (Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" <N914VA@starband.net>
I see from my search that a few of you have put a Garmin SL-30 nav/com in their
Europa. I have purchased 0ne, but it appears to be too long to install in the
panel. I haven't cut anything, so I'm looking for someone to tell me how they
did it and where in the panel did they put it.
Thanks in advance.
Vaughn Teegarden, the wiring idiot
XS mono
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
Hi Vaughn
I have set the instrument panel on 1 inch rubber mounts for isolation
purposes, And this gives 12 inches clearance to the firewall,
The SL30 carrier and wiring is 11 1/2 inches, It will leave the SL30 radio
protruding about 1/2 inch from the front of the avionic panel, which is
normal for most avionics
It will go above the Dynon EMS-D10, The flush bracket being 4 1/2 inches
high, followed by a Narco 890 DME then the SL30.
Subject: Europa-List: SL-30
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden"
> <N914VA@starband.net>
>
> I see from my search that a few of you have put a Garmin SL-30 nav/com in
> their Europa. I have purchased 0ne, but it appears to be too long to
> install in the panel. I haven't cut anything, so I'm looking for someone
> to tell me how they did it and where in the panel did they put it.
regards
Ivor Phillips
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Throttle cable failure |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Erich Trombley" <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
Sorry to learn of yet another throttle cable failure. Fortunately it occurred
on the ground. I fear that this will not be last failure to be reported with
the next chap not being so lucky. As I have posted several times over the years
on this forum good engineering practice would not call for the use of a stranded
wire cable for compressive loads. The stranded wire cable used in Europa
throttle quadrant is especially vulnerable to kinking and fatigue failure.
Just because it hasn't failed on you yet doesn't mean it won't. It is only a
matter of time.
How many certified aircraft do you see using this type of arrangement? Most use
a solid wire vernier/bowden cable...which is most suitable to the task. The
good news is that the Europa throttle is easily modified for use of a solid wire
bowden cable. I will not go into the details on the modification as it can
be found in the archives.
Regards,
Erich Trombley P.E.
N28ET Classic Mono 914
For some reason yet to be determined this message will be repeated by Juno. I
apologize.
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Sorry to learn of yet another throttle cable failure. Fortunately it occurred on
the ground. I fear that this will not be last failure to be reported with the
next chap not being so lucky. As I have posted several times over the years
on this forum good engineering practice would not call for the use of a stranded
wire cable for compressive loads. The stranded wire cable used in Europa throttle
quadrant is especially vulnerable to kinking and fatigue failure. Just
because it hasn't failed on you yet doesn't mean it won't. It is only a matter
of time.
How many certified aircraft do you see using this type of arrangement? Most use
asolid wire vernier/bowden cable...which is most suitable to the task. The good
news is that the Europa throttle is easily modified for use of a solid wire
bowden cable. I will notgo into the details on the modification asitcan be found
in the archives.
Regards,
Erich Trombley P.E.
N28ET Classic Mono 914
For some reason yet to be determined this message will be repeated by Juno. I apologize.
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" <N914VA@starband.net>
Thanks Ivor. Do you have the monowheel?
Vaughn
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.us>
Apparently the factory folks never checked the dimensions of commonly
installed radios.
I wanted to avoid encroaching on the already limited knee room, so rather
than simply mounting the entire panel with a spacer at the firewall I
modified the radio stack portion of the panel to increase the depth
sufficiently to clear several of the Garmin products. First I made a
"splash" of the original radio stack area with a layup of several layers of
bid using plastic film as a mold release. Then, using that as a mold I
made a new piece that exactly matched the original, but with the needed
increased length. From there is was a straightforward cut and paste using
the usual fiberglass methods to attach the new face to the panel in place of
the original radio stack. Of course, this scheme required the same
fill-and-sand tedium that is needed on the entire exterior of the airframe,
but it was good practice.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Vaughn & Gaye
Teegarden
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:45 AM
Subject: Europa-List: SL-30
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden"
<N914VA@starband.net>
I see from my search that a few of you have put a Garmin SL-30 nav/com in
their Europa. I have purchased 0ne, but it appears to be too long to install
in the panel. I haven't cut anything, so I'm looking for someone to tell me
how they did it and where in the panel did they put it.
Thanks in advance.
Vaughn Teegarden, the wiring idiot
XS mono
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
No its a Tri-gear with 914
ivor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" <N914VA@starband.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:16 PM
Subject: Europa-List: SL-30
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden"
> <N914VA@starband.net>
>
> Thanks Ivor. Do you have the monowheel?
>
> Vaughn
do not archive
Message 7
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Subject: | RE: Throttle cable failure |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Sorry, but i feel it's time to protest, even if i am an inexperienced pilot and
an amateur builder. There is a misunderstanding here, that nobody seems to notice
or cares to correct, and eventually that could lead to accidents. The throttle
cable on the Europa, and almost by definition on any other plane I've seen
is operated in PULL by a PULLING spring(s) on the carburettor(s). If there
is not enough friction on the throttle HANDLE, the spring pulls to full throttle.
For the simple reason, that a broken cable will NOT bring down a plane.
The cables here have a negligible own friction. So in my humble opinion this is
unnecessary factory bashing.
However, while i was sanding and filling etc in Nev's workshop, i have seen a few
flying Europas with throttle cables with such impossibly tight bends, that
it is a surprise the cable would move at all. If those would have a solid wire,
it would not have been possible to have make such bends in the first place.
If somebody really would replace a flexible multi stranded wire with a solid one
in those awfully applications we really will have accidents.
The moral of the story? Please release the friction on the handle, and check that
the throttle opens fully after close. If not, please replace your cables AND
reroute, as William did
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
----------------
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" <ykibuess@bluewin.ch>
Vaughn,
In the panel of my XS monowheel I installed aluminum panel fascias of 3
mm thickness. The SL-30 is in the right hand side panel just below the
RMI MicroMonitor tray (about 115 mm below the top of the panel). The
SL-30 tray is mounted flush with the aluminum panel fascia. This mode of
installation gives just enough clearance between the SL-30 wiring and
the firewall. If you want more details, I could send you a picture.
Alfred
Alfred Buess
E-Mail: ykibuess@bluewin.ch
Europa XS #097, Monowheel, Foam shortwing, Rotax 912S, Airmaster 332 CS
Sanding, priming, sanding........
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Vaughn &
Gaye Teegarden
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2006 13:45
An: europa-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Europa-List: SL-30
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden"
--> <N914VA@starband.net>
I see from my search that a few of you have put a Garmin SL-30 nav/com
in their Europa. I have purchased 0ne, but it appears to be too long to
install in the panel. I haven't cut anything, so I'm looking for someone
to tell me how they did it and where in the panel did they put it.
Thanks in advance.
Vaughn Teegarden, the wiring idiot
XS mono
Message 9
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Subject: | RE: Flap Washout |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Flying Farmer" <funnyphone@btinternet.com>
Thanks to all who have replied to the flap washout problem I have, well Now Had
as I have now laminated them now, and they look real good and straight, I just
hope they will fit the wings, If not I can hang them on the wall as large shelves,
to put my model aircraft on them.
If anyone would like to sign my Guest book I would be grateful
http://uk.geocities.com/funnyphone@btopenworld.com/
Thanks again.
----------------
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: creation date July 2003 and not November, 2002? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Scout" <tguynz@earthlink.net>
I just spoke w/ randal and he sez that u still don't have a lease form.?
What gives?
Do please print a few so as to provide for the facilitation of a mutually
beneficial contract w/ some renter.
Please...? thankyouverymuch.
Todd (:{>)
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Europa - how much does it really cost? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "TERRY SMITH" <skyguard33-register@yahoo.co.uk>
> Many thanks to everyone for the useful responses on this topic.
> To Pete - thanks for mentioning G-SHSH, I have been in communication
with David.
> Regds,
> Terry
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Europa - how much does it really cost? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
Good I shall be after David for a beer - or two!
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TERRY SMITH
Sent: 16 February 2006 22:38
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa - how much does it really cost?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "TERRY SMITH"
<skyguard33-register@yahoo.co.uk>
> Many thanks to everyone for the useful responses on this topic.
> To Pete - thanks for mentioning G-SHSH, I have been in communication
with David.
> Regds,
> Terry
Message 13
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Subject: | RE: Throttle cable failure |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
Sorry Jos but the things kink between the connection to the throttle
lever in the cockpit and the start of the cable outer. There is no
dispute about that I have seen it with my own eyes and spent a happy
half hour on the hanger floor changing the thing. Maybe the springs are
not strong enough to overcome the friction in the cable?
Regards
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of josok
Sent: 16 February 2006 19:03
Subject: Europa-List: RE: Throttle cable failure
--> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Sorry, but i feel it's time to protest, even if i am an inexperienced
pilot and an amateur builder. There is a misunderstanding here, that
nobody seems to notice or cares to correct, and eventually that could
lead to accidents. The throttle cable on the Europa, and almost by
definition on any other plane I've seen is operated in PULL by a PULLING
spring(s) on the carburettor(s). If there is not enough friction on the
throttle HANDLE, the spring pulls to full throttle. For the simple
reason, that a broken cable will NOT bring down a plane.
The cables here have a negligible own friction. So in my humble opinion
this is unnecessary factory bashing.
However, while i was sanding and filling etc in Nev's workshop, i have
seen a few flying Europas with throttle cables with such impossibly
tight bends, that it is a surprise the cable would move at all. If those
would have a solid wire, it would not have been possible to have make
such bends in the first place. If somebody really would replace a
flexible multi stranded wire with a solid one in those awfully
applications we really will have accidents.
The moral of the story? Please release the friction on the handle, and
check that the throttle opens fully after close. If not, please replace
your cables AND reroute, as William did
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
----------------
Message 14
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Cc: rlborger <rlborger@mac.com>
--> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger <rlborger@mac.com>
Vaughn,
I have a Garmin panel which I am in the process of installing. I
found that it wouldn't fit as the radio stack was too deep. I have
used 1" Neoprene stand-off isolation mounts from McMaster-Carr.
You can see what I have completed to date by going to my Europa
Owners build web-site (signature block). Go to the back end of Year
4, Q4, 2005 and beginning of Year 5, Q1, 2005.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in,
Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar
in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Working in - 24
Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 29 Main Gear, 30 Fuel
System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster
arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. Preparing ROTAX
914 for installation.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 15
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Subject: | RE: Throttle cable failure |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
How do i put this polite? The symptom you describe is exactly what will happen
with an abused cable with too much friction. The usual reason is overbending,
dirt, stiff grease or whatever. If you just replace the broken inner, your plane
is an accident to happen. Because the next failure will happen. If that is
on final, seeing you are a bit low, you will enter the statistics.
Thinking of where it goes wrong, i think that, as on most planes the pilot should
be able to reduce the friction of the HANDLE to make sure the spring on the
carb is able to pull to full throttle. This is not possible on the Europa, not
at least as part of the normal pre-flight. So something to do at annuals and
the lot?
Hope that was not to offensive? <grin>
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
----------------
Message 16
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" <N914VA@starband.net>
Thank you all for the replys. The digest is indeed a wonder for the wondering!
Vaughn
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