---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/16/06: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:51 AM - SL-30 (Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden) 2. 07:36 AM - Re: SL-30 (ivor.phillips) 3. 09:03 AM - Re: Throttle cable failure (Erich Trombley) 4. 09:18 AM - SL-30 (Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden) 5. 09:26 AM - Re: SL-30 (Rob Housman) 6. 09:56 AM - Re: SL-30 (ivor.phillips) 7. 11:05 AM - Re: Throttle cable failure (josok) 8. 11:18 AM - AW: SL-30 (Europa (Alfred Buess)) 9. 11:25 AM - Re: Flap Washout (Flying Farmer) 10. 12:46 PM - Re: creation date July 2003 and not November, 2002? (Scout) 11. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: Europa - how much does it really cost? (TERRY SMITH) 12. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: Europa - how much does it really cost? (Pete Lawless) 13. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: Throttle cable failure (Pete Lawless) 14. 04:35 PM - Re: SL-30 (rlborger) 15. 04:56 PM - Re: Throttle cable failure (josok) 16. 05:29 PM - SL-30 (Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:27 AM PST US From: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" Subject: Europa-List: SL-30 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" I see from my search that a few of you have put a Garmin SL-30 nav/com in their Europa. I have purchased 0ne, but it appears to be too long to install in the panel. I haven't cut anything, so I'm looking for someone to tell me how they did it and where in the panel did they put it. Thanks in advance. Vaughn Teegarden, the wiring idiot XS mono ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:21 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Europa-List: SL-30 --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" Hi Vaughn I have set the instrument panel on 1 inch rubber mounts for isolation purposes, And this gives 12 inches clearance to the firewall, The SL30 carrier and wiring is 11 1/2 inches, It will leave the SL30 radio protruding about 1/2 inch from the front of the avionic panel, which is normal for most avionics It will go above the Dynon EMS-D10, The flush bracket being 4 1/2 inches high, followed by a Narco 890 DME then the SL30. Subject: Europa-List: SL-30 > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" > > > I see from my search that a few of you have put a Garmin SL-30 nav/com in > their Europa. I have purchased 0ne, but it appears to be too long to > install in the panel. I haven't cut anything, so I'm looking for someone > to tell me how they did it and where in the panel did they put it. regards Ivor Phillips ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:11 AM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: Re: Throttle cable failure --> Europa-List message posted by: "Erich Trombley" Sorry to learn of yet another throttle cable failure. Fortunately it occurred on the ground. I fear that this will not be last failure to be reported with the next chap not being so lucky. As I have posted several times over the years on this forum good engineering practice would not call for the use of a stranded wire cable for compressive loads. The stranded wire cable used in Europa throttle quadrant is especially vulnerable to kinking and fatigue failure. Just because it hasn't failed on you yet doesn't mean it won't. It is only a matter of time. How many certified aircraft do you see using this type of arrangement? Most use a solid wire vernier/bowden cable...which is most suitable to the task. The good news is that the Europa throttle is easily modified for use of a solid wire bowden cable. I will not go into the details on the modification as it can be found in the archives. Regards, Erich Trombley P.E. N28ET Classic Mono 914 For some reason yet to be determined this message will be repeated by Juno. I apologize. Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Sorry to learn of yet another throttle cable failure. Fortunately it occurred on the ground. I fear that this will not be last failure to be reported with the next chap not being so lucky. As I have posted several times over the years on this forum good engineering practice would not call for the use of a stranded wire cable for compressive loads. The stranded wire cable used in Europa throttle quadrant is especially vulnerable to kinking and fatigue failure. Just because it hasn't failed on you yet doesn't mean it won't. It is only a matter of time. How many certified aircraft do you see using this type of arrangement? Most use asolid wire vernier/bowden cable...which is most suitable to the task. The good news is that the Europa throttle is easily modified for use of a solid wire bowden cable. I will notgo into the details on the modification asitcan be found in the archives. Regards, Erich Trombley P.E. N28ET Classic Mono 914 For some reason yet to be determined this message will be repeated by Juno. I apologize. Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:51 AM PST US From: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" Subject: Europa-List: SL-30 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" Thanks Ivor. Do you have the monowheel? Vaughn ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:14 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: SL-30 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" Apparently the factory folks never checked the dimensions of commonly installed radios. I wanted to avoid encroaching on the already limited knee room, so rather than simply mounting the entire panel with a spacer at the firewall I modified the radio stack portion of the panel to increase the depth sufficiently to clear several of the Garmin products. First I made a "splash" of the original radio stack area with a layup of several layers of bid using plastic film as a mold release. Then, using that as a mold I made a new piece that exactly matched the original, but with the needed increased length. From there is was a straightforward cut and paste using the usual fiberglass methods to attach the new face to the panel in place of the original radio stack. Of course, this scheme required the same fill-and-sand tedium that is needed on the entire exterior of the airframe, but it was good practice. Best regards, Rob Housman A070 Airframe complete Irvine, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:45 AM Subject: Europa-List: SL-30 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" I see from my search that a few of you have put a Garmin SL-30 nav/com in their Europa. I have purchased 0ne, but it appears to be too long to install in the panel. I haven't cut anything, so I'm looking for someone to tell me how they did it and where in the panel did they put it. Thanks in advance. Vaughn Teegarden, the wiring idiot XS mono ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:48 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Europa-List: SL-30 --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" No its a Tri-gear with 914 ivor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:16 PM Subject: Europa-List: SL-30 > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" > > > Thanks Ivor. Do you have the monowheel? > > Vaughn do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:05:35 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: Throttle cable failure From: "josok" --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" Sorry, but i feel it's time to protest, even if i am an inexperienced pilot and an amateur builder. There is a misunderstanding here, that nobody seems to notice or cares to correct, and eventually that could lead to accidents. The throttle cable on the Europa, and almost by definition on any other plane I've seen is operated in PULL by a PULLING spring(s) on the carburettor(s). If there is not enough friction on the throttle HANDLE, the spring pulls to full throttle. For the simple reason, that a broken cable will NOT bring down a plane. The cables here have a negligible own friction. So in my humble opinion this is unnecessary factory bashing. However, while i was sanding and filling etc in Nev's workshop, i have seen a few flying Europas with throttle cables with such impossibly tight bends, that it is a surprise the cable would move at all. If those would have a solid wire, it would not have been possible to have make such bends in the first place. If somebody really would replace a flexible multi stranded wire with a solid one in those awfully applications we really will have accidents. The moral of the story? Please release the friction on the handle, and check that the throttle opens fully after close. If not, please replace your cables AND reroute, as William did Regards, Jos Okhuijsen ---------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:59 AM PST US From: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Subject: AW: Europa-List: SL-30 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Vaughn, In the panel of my XS monowheel I installed aluminum panel fascias of 3 mm thickness. The SL-30 is in the right hand side panel just below the RMI MicroMonitor tray (about 115 mm below the top of the panel). The SL-30 tray is mounted flush with the aluminum panel fascia. This mode of installation gives just enough clearance between the SL-30 wiring and the firewall. If you want more details, I could send you a picture. Alfred Alfred Buess E-Mail: ykibuess@bluewin.ch Europa XS #097, Monowheel, Foam shortwing, Rotax 912S, Airmaster 332 CS Sanding, priming, sanding........ -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2006 13:45 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: Europa-List: SL-30 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" --> I see from my search that a few of you have put a Garmin SL-30 nav/com in their Europa. I have purchased 0ne, but it appears to be too long to install in the panel. I haven't cut anything, so I'm looking for someone to tell me how they did it and where in the panel did they put it. Thanks in advance. Vaughn Teegarden, the wiring idiot XS mono ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:29 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: Flap Washout From: "Flying Farmer" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Flying Farmer" Thanks to all who have replied to the flap washout problem I have, well Now Had as I have now laminated them now, and they look real good and straight, I just hope they will fit the wings, If not I can hang them on the wall as large shelves, to put my model aircraft on them. If anyone would like to sign my Guest book I would be grateful http://uk.geocities.com/funnyphone@btopenworld.com/ Thanks again. ---------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:24 PM PST US From: "Scout" Subject: Europa-List: Re: creation date July 2003 and not November, 2002? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Scout" I just spoke w/ randal and he sez that u still don't have a lease form.? What gives? Do please print a few so as to provide for the facilitation of a mutually beneficial contract w/ some renter. Please...? thankyouverymuch. Todd (:{>) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:58 PM PST US From: "TERRY SMITH" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa - how much does it really cost? --> Europa-List message posted by: "TERRY SMITH" > Many thanks to everyone for the useful responses on this topic. > To Pete - thanks for mentioning G-SHSH, I have been in communication with David. > Regds, > Terry ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:03 PM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europa - how much does it really cost? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" Good I shall be after David for a beer - or two! Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TERRY SMITH Sent: 16 February 2006 22:38 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa - how much does it really cost? --> Europa-List message posted by: "TERRY SMITH" > Many thanks to everyone for the useful responses on this topic. > To Pete - thanks for mentioning G-SHSH, I have been in communication with David. > Regds, > Terry ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:50 PM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: Throttle cable failure --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" Sorry Jos but the things kink between the connection to the throttle lever in the cockpit and the start of the cable outer. There is no dispute about that I have seen it with my own eyes and spent a happy half hour on the hanger floor changing the thing. Maybe the springs are not strong enough to overcome the friction in the cable? Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of josok Sent: 16 February 2006 19:03 Subject: Europa-List: RE: Throttle cable failure --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" Sorry, but i feel it's time to protest, even if i am an inexperienced pilot and an amateur builder. There is a misunderstanding here, that nobody seems to notice or cares to correct, and eventually that could lead to accidents. The throttle cable on the Europa, and almost by definition on any other plane I've seen is operated in PULL by a PULLING spring(s) on the carburettor(s). If there is not enough friction on the throttle HANDLE, the spring pulls to full throttle. For the simple reason, that a broken cable will NOT bring down a plane. The cables here have a negligible own friction. So in my humble opinion this is unnecessary factory bashing. However, while i was sanding and filling etc in Nev's workshop, i have seen a few flying Europas with throttle cables with such impossibly tight bends, that it is a surprise the cable would move at all. If those would have a solid wire, it would not have been possible to have make such bends in the first place. If somebody really would replace a flexible multi stranded wire with a solid one in those awfully applications we really will have accidents. The moral of the story? Please release the friction on the handle, and check that the throttle opens fully after close. If not, please replace your cables AND reroute, as William did Regards, Jos Okhuijsen ---------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:25 PM PST US Cc: rlborger Subject: Re: Europa-List: SL-30 From: rlborger --> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger Vaughn, I have a Garmin panel which I am in the process of installing. I found that it wouldn't fit as the radio stack was too deep. I have used 1" Neoprene stand-off isolation mounts from McMaster-Carr. You can see what I have completed to date by going to my Europa Owners build web-site (signature block). Go to the back end of Year 4, Q4, 2005 and beginning of Year 5, Q1, 2005. Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Working in - 24 Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 29 Main Gear, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. Preparing ROTAX 914 for installation. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:01 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: Throttle cable failure From: "josok" --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" How do i put this polite? The symptom you describe is exactly what will happen with an abused cable with too much friction. The usual reason is overbending, dirt, stiff grease or whatever. If you just replace the broken inner, your plane is an accident to happen. Because the next failure will happen. If that is on final, seeing you are a bit low, you will enter the statistics. Thinking of where it goes wrong, i think that, as on most planes the pilot should be able to reduce the friction of the HANDLE to make sure the spring on the carb is able to pull to full throttle. This is not possible on the Europa, not at least as part of the normal pre-flight. So something to do at annuals and the lot? Hope that was not to offensive? Regards, Jos Okhuijsen ---------------- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:04 PM PST US From: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" Subject: Europa-List: SL-30 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" Thank you all for the replys. The digest is indeed a wonder for the wondering! Vaughn