Europa-List Digest Archive

Wed 02/22/06


Total Messages Posted: 31



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:07 AM - Aileron bellcrank assembly (Keith Hickling)
     2. 12:32 AM - Re: Aileron bellcrank assembly (G-IANI)
     3. 01:27 AM - Re: Re: 914 Fuel System (BEBERRY@aol.com)
     4. 02:40 AM - Re: Re: 914 Fuel System (Simon Smith)
     5. 03:39 AM - Rotax ignition check, of course or fine? ()
     6. 04:13 AM - MTOW (josok)
     7. 07:07 AM - Fuel pumps in series can get blocked (GLENN CROWDER)
     8. 07:11 AM - Re: MTOW (Arthur Orchard)
     9. 07:18 AM - 914 Fuel System (Ing. Gottfried Komaier)
    10. 07:49 AM - Re: 914 Fuel System (Paul McAllister)
    11. 07:50 AM - Re: 914 Fuel System (William Daniell)
    12. 07:56 AM - Re: Fuel pumps in series can get blocked (ivor.phillips)
    13. 09:45 AM - Re: Aileron bellcrank assembly (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
    14. 10:35 AM - Re: Aileron bellcrank assembly (NevEyre@aol.com)
    15. 12:06 PM - Re: Fuel pumps in series can get blocked (Tony Krzyzewski)
    16. 12:18 PM - Re: Strobe light (Rob Housman)
    17. 12:18 PM - Re: Aileron bellcrank assembly (Jeff B)
    18. 12:20 PM - Re: Rotax ignition check, of course or fine? (Jeff B)
    19. 12:27 PM - Re: 914 Fuel System (josok)
    20. 12:53 PM - 914 Fuel Pumps. (MICHAEL PARKIN)
    21. 12:55 PM - MAC Servo Indicator. (MICHAEL PARKIN)
    22. 12:56 PM - Re: Fuel pumps in series can get blocked (Dean Seitz)
    23. 01:53 PM - Re: Aileron bellcrank assembly (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
    24. 01:57 PM - Re: 914 Fuel Pumps. (Tony Krzyzewski)
    25. 02:05 PM - AW: 914 Fuel Pumps. (Ing. Gottfried Komaier)
    26. 02:14 PM - AW: 914 Fuel Pumps. (Ing. Gottfried Komaier)
    27. 03:07 PM - Aileron bellcrank assembly (Keith Hickling)
    28. 03:07 PM - Re: Re: 914 Fuel System (Jan de Jong)
    29. 05:22 PM - Re: AW: 914 Fuel Pumps. (Tony Krzyzewski)
    30. 07:58 PM - Re: AW: 914 Fuel Pumps. (MICHAEL PARKIN)
    31. 11:06 PM - Re: Re: 914 Fuel System (Michael Grass)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:07:56 AM PST US
    From: Keith Hickling <keithhickling@clear.net.nz>
    Subject: Aileron bellcrank assembly
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Keith Hickling <keithhickling@clear.net.nz> I have just installed the aileron bellcrank assembly on the stbd wing of my XS, with the long arm of the bellcrank towards the spar as shown in the manual. There is around 6 mm clearance between the front of the bellcrank arm and the spar, but I have had to trim the holes in the double rib for the aileron pushrod right back to spar, and the pushrod is still rubbing quite hard on the front end of the double rib that is bonded onto the spar (the double rib seems to be formed as one unit joined at the spar end). I find this worrying because the bellcrank assembly presumably has constant dimensions and is mounted on the spar, so if mine binds on the spar, it should always happen unless I have goofed and assembled it the wrong way. Should it be mounted with the long arm towards the spar? Have others had to sand back the glass between the double rib that is bonded to the spar? The alternative would be to pack out the mounting brackets with washers, but I feel this shouldn't be necessary. Help please! Keith Hickling Tail, ailerons, flaps completed Wing reinforcements and W18 plates installed working on cockpit module 8 months into build


    Message 2


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    Time: 12:32:34 AM PST US
    From: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: Aileron bellcrank assembly
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com> Long arm towards the spar is, from memory and the manual, correct. Sanding the spar between the double ribs should not be necessary. Have a talk with Andy Draper. Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com


    Message 3


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    Time: 01:27:41 AM PST US
    From: BEBERRY@aol.com
    Subject: Re: RE: 914 Fuel System
    --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com I have followed the recent parallel v series argument with interest. As the owner of a 914 with pumps in parallel and have no occasion in Europe to fly above say 7,000ft and then seldom, I wonder if some one more erudite than I could explain what problems I am likely to encounter and whether I should consider a modification? Patrick


    Message 4


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    Time: 02:40:39 AM PST US
    From: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
    Subject: RE: 914 Fuel System
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk> I think that if there was a good reason for the pumps not to be in parallel then we would have seen an SB mandating the change to series. Simon -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BEBERRY@aol.com Sent: 22 February 2006 09:25 Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: 914 Fuel System --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com I have followed the recent parallel v series argument with interest. As the owner of a 914 with pumps in parallel and have no occasion in Europe to fly above say 7,000ft and then seldom, I wonder if some one more erudite than I could explain what problems I am likely to encounter and whether I should consider a modification? Patrick


    Message 5


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    Time: 03:39:29 AM PST US
    Subject: Rotax ignition check, of course or fine?
    From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> When checking ignition with a constant speed prop, is it preferred to have the prop: Fine? Course? Both of Course are Fine? Thx. Ron Parigoris


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:13:33 AM PST US
    Subject: MTOW
    From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi> Added a pdf with the factory view about an increase to MTOW to the document storage at http://www.europaowners.org, with thanks to Stefan Ingemarsson. Regards, ----------------


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:07:04 AM PST US
    From: "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
    Cc: gcrowder2@hotmail.com
    Subject: Fuel pumps in series can get blocked
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2@hotmail.com> I switched the pumps on my setup from series to parallel as the Ellison throttle body on my Subaru setup only requires 3 psi. One big negative on two pumps in series is that if there is a blockage, both pumps are taken out. In the parallel arrangement, if one pump gets blocked, the other pump can still deliver fuel. Glenn >From: "Craig Ellison" <craig.ellison2@verizon.net> >To: <europa-list@matronics.com> >Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: 914 Fuel System >Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:43:31 -0800 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Craig Ellison" ><craig.ellison2@verizon.net> > >All, > >I too had my system set up in parellel and changed to series after talking >to John H. One reason I remember of the conversation was about allowing >proper readings on the fuel pressure/MP differential gauge. > >craig ellison >A205/N205CN >Almost ready to fly > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi> >Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:14 AM >Subject: Europa-List: RE: 914 Fuel System > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi> > > > > Hi Dan, > > > > The difference is that in the tech talk, just as in the latest issue of > > the XS 914 engine manual the pumps are operating in serial. This seems >to > > be a Rotax requirement. I intend to follow that requirement, although at > > this time i can't figure out where the advantage is. Anybody with more > > insight? > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Jos Okhuijsen > > ---------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:11:46 AM PST US
    From: "Arthur Orchard" <avo@flyingcircus.fsworld.co.uk>
    Subject: MTOW
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Arthur Orchard" <avo@flyingcircus.fsworld.co.uk> Hi Mike, As you Know, Richard has carried on this business for some time on his own voilition I personally have had nothing to do with his affairs, since the first lot of minies that went astray as, Larry will tell you, I said that I, was not going to put any more funds in to that escapade, as I could not afford too, I Will endeavor to convey his words both ways? As to Points you raised in you're Email to me, Hope everything is fine with you and you're family, Regards and Best wishes Arthur -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of josok Sent: 22 February 2006 12:09 Subject: Europa-List: MTOW --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi> Added a pdf with the factory view about an increase to MTOW to the document storage at http://www.europaowners.org, with thanks to Stefan Ingemarsson. Regards, ----------------


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:18:08 AM PST US
    From: "Ing. Gottfried Komaier" <gottfried.komaier@gmx.net>
    Subject: 914 Fuel System
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ing. Gottfried Komaier" <gottfried.komaier@gmx.net> Jos, Dan, and all, The discussion of the fuel system is an academical-discussion, but nevertheless, I will give you more ideas to think about. First of all, don't think that the pumps in SERIES are only helpful at high altitudes. Stable fuel-pressure is fine at lower altitudes as well. At the critical phase of flight -Take Off - the volume of one pump is more as enough. In this phase of operation, a higher pressure (or in other words, a stable pressure) is the important thing. Does one of you checked the fuel-flow of the "Pierburg" fuel pump? At full power (5800 RPM) the fuel flow of the 914 is ~33l/h. Have a look at www.msi-motor-service.com and learn more about this pump. In PARALLEL there is so much fuel going back to the tank. In case of an pump-failure when operating in SERIES, the second pump works - in this phase of flight - in the same way as when in PARALLEL. Don't are the fuel pumps on the 912 (mechanical-electrical) in SERIES, as well? What do you think is the reason for that? Does one of you would start a discussion on that? I don't think so. Pierburg fuel-pumps are developed for car- and stationary engines, not for aircraft-engines. At the beginning of manufacture of the 914 engine, Rotax take the drawings of Pierburg. Does one of you know, that the original design of the 914 runs with the mechanical pump, as we can see on the 912 engine? I think the real problem of the 914 fuel pump-design is the dependence on electricity. What happens in case of an serious electricity-problem? Then the flight becomes s i l e n t. In this situation, God gives you a meadow under your wings! The dependence on electricity is the real and only problem of the 914 fuel system, not the PARALLEL -or SERIES- design. Let me know, what you are thinking about this problem. Regards, Gottfried


    Message 10


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    Time: 07:49:36 AM PST US
    From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
    Subject: 914 Fuel System
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net> Hi all, I am a curious to know if the 914 pump can be purchased from any one other than Rotax? Does anyone know ? Paul


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:50:22 AM PST US
    From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
    Subject: 914 Fuel System
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co> Interestingly enough on my Colombian Zenith STOL clone which I fly when I am not making cock ups on my Europa, I have a turboed 912 (a 912 with a car turbo bolted on). This has a mechanical pump and an electric pump. If you turn the electric pump off it will only make about 23inch MP which is sufficient at 8500msl (Bogota) to maintain altitude but not much more - but at least the motor does not stop. I am intending to use this engine in the Europa with two electric pumps - a main and a manually operated "boost" for critical flight phases. Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ing. Gottfried Komaier Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:17 Subject: Europa-List: 914 Fuel System --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ing. Gottfried Komaier" <gottfried.komaier@gmx.net> Jos, Dan, and all, The discussion of the fuel system is an academical-discussion, but nevertheless, I will give you more ideas to think about. First of all, don't think that the pumps in SERIES are only helpful at high altitudes. Stable fuel-pressure is fine at lower altitudes as well. At the critical phase of flight -Take Off - the volume of one pump is more as enough. In this phase of operation, a higher pressure (or in other words, a stable pressure) is the important thing. Does one of you checked the fuel-flow of the "Pierburg" fuel pump? At full power (5800 RPM) the fuel flow of the 914 is ~33l/h. Have a look at www.msi-motor-service.com and learn more about this pump. In PARALLEL there is so much fuel going back to the tank. In case of an pump-failure when operating in SERIES, the second pump works - in this phase of flight - in the same way as when in PARALLEL. Don't are the fuel pumps on the 912 (mechanical-electrical) in SERIES, as well? What do you think is the reason for that? Does one of you would start a discussion on that? I don't think so. Pierburg fuel-pumps are developed for car- and stationary engines, not for aircraft-engines. At the beginning of manufacture of the 914 engine, Rotax take the drawings of Pierburg. Does one of you know, that the original design of the 914 runs with the mechanical pump, as we can see on the 912 engine? I think the real problem of the 914 fuel pump-design is the dependence on electricity. What happens in case of an serious electricity-problem? Then the flight becomes s i l e n t. In this situation, God gives you a meadow under your wings! The dependence on electricity is the real and only problem of the 914 fuel system, not the PARALLEL -or SERIES- design. Let me know, what you are thinking about this problem. Regards, Gottfried


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:56:07 AM PST US
    From: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
    Subject: Re: Fuel pumps in series can get blocked
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com> Glen that is not actually the case, If one Pump became blocked, ( There are small mesh filters on the inlet) the second pump would draw its fuel around the Bi-pass pipe and Non-return valve, But i agree i would also prefer the Parallel system, On the Pierburg website there no mention of running these pumps in series , schematics only show parallel, Makes you wonder!!! > I switched the pumps on my setup from series to parallel as the Ellison > throttle body > on my Subaru setup only requires 3 psi. One big negative on two pumps in > series is that if > there is a blockage, both pumps are taken out. In the parallel > arrangement, > if one pump > gets blocked, the other pump can still deliver fuel. > Ivor Phillips


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:45:23 AM PST US
    From: DuaneFamly@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Aileron bellcrank assembly
    --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Keith, My bellcrank clears the rib fine by about 5mm.....no where near rubbing......the pivot bolt measures about 55mm from the rib and the mounting bolt closest to the rib and on the spar side is 25mm from the rib. I hope this helps. Mike Duane Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300


    Message 14


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    Time: 10:35:09 AM PST US
    From: NevEyre@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Aileron bellcrank assembly
    --> Europa-List message posted by: NevEyre@aol.com Hi Keith, Interference [ or not ] of the push rod with the double rib forward web, is dependent on the thickness of the Redux glue line between the web and the spar, [ as supplied].Chances are yours has a thick glue line ? I have seen many that needed the hole relieved all the way to the web, and some that needed the belcrank brackets to be shimmed aft'. Use alloy shims, as thick as required, the same size as the flange of the bracket [ washers will not do !] Hope this helps ? Cheers, Nev.


    Message 15


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    Time: 12:06:48 PM PST US
    From: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
    Subject: Re: Fuel pumps in series can get blocked
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz> The reason for the change to series based pumps is to bring the fuel pressure down to that specified by Rotax. If you measure the differential fuel pressure to airbox pressure as recommended then you'll find that the pressure delivered by parallel pumps is too high. Having said that. There are many 914's flying with parallel pumps as this is what Rotax used to show in the installation manual. Unless you intend retrofitting the UMA pressure sensor there is no need to change. For new installations the Rotax manual now shows pumps in series with bypass valves Tony


    Message 16


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    Time: 12:18:06 PM PST US
    From: "Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.us>
    Subject: Strobe light
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.us> You are in luck because of my bad luck (I got screwed by the crooks at Goldwing). I have an incomplete and useless kit of strobes. In addition to the clear strobe for the tail I have some miscellaneous hardware and wiring. Whatever you want is available for the cost to ship the stuff to you. Contact me off-list to arrange shipment. Best regards, Rob Housman A070 Airframe complete Irvine, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JonSmith Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 2:39 AM Subject: Europa-List: Strobe light --> Europa-List message posted by: "JonSmith" <jon.smith680@tesco.net> Hi everyone! My plane has a fin mounted strobe - well it did until recently cos I smashed it off on the garage door. (As they say, an inch can make all the difference!) It is/ was a "Goldwing", (Goldwing ATL I think it was called). I'm pretty sure they're not made now as I've not seen adverts for a long time. Just wondering if anyone by good chance might have one they're not going to use anymore or otherwise know where there might be one lying around? I need the glass and the plastic light fitting. The glass is clear, not frosted and perfectly round - ie not aerodynamically shaped. Best Regards, Jon Smith G-TERN ----------------


    Message 17


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    Time: 12:18:06 PM PST US
    From: Jeff B <topglock@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Aileron bellcrank assembly
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff B <topglock@cox.net> I had a clearance problem in both of my wings. I shimmed the bellcrank out with two .063" shims and trimmed out the holes in the ribs. All is well with 140 hours in the air... Jeff - N55XS 141 hours... Keith Hickling wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: Keith Hickling <keithhickling@clear.net.nz> > > I have just installed the aileron bellcrank assembly on the stbd wing of my XS, with the long arm of the bellcrank towards the spar as shown in the manual. There is around 6 mm clearance between the front of the bellcrank arm and the spar, but I have had to trim the holes in the double rib for the aileron pushrod right back to spar, and the pushrod is still rubbing quite hard on the front end of the double rib that is bonded onto the spar (the double rib seems to be formed as one unit joined at the spar end). > > I find this worrying because the bellcrank assembly presumably has constant dimensions and is mounted on the spar, so if mine binds on the spar, it should always happen unless I have goofed and assembled it the wrong way. Should it be mounted with the long arm towards the spar? Have others had to sand back the glass between the double rib that is bonded to the spar? The alternative would be to pack out the mounting brackets with washers, but I feel this shouldn't be necessary. > > Help please! > > Keith Hickling > > Tail, ailerons, flaps completed > Wing reinforcements and W18 plates installed > working on cockpit module > 8 months into build > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --


    Message 18


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    Time: 12:20:37 PM PST US
    From: Jeff B <topglock@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Rotax ignition check, of course or fine?
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Jeff B <topglock@cox.net> Ron, If you're referring to ingition at run up, I do the mag check in fine pitch, then go my prop check, cycling it through at 4000 rpm. Jeff - N55XS 141 hours rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> > > When checking ignition with a constant speed prop, is it preferred to have > the prop: > Fine? > Course? > Both of Course are Fine? > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --


    Message 19


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    Time: 12:27:27 PM PST US
    Subject: RE: 914 Fuel System
    From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi> Completely agree, that there is probably more risk of running out of electrical power then loosing both pumps. I understand that the output of one pump will be enough even while departing. For those who missed something: In the new serial pumps drawings are check valves parallel to the pumps. Thanks all non-lurkers for bringing up ideas and facts. The blocked fuel supply made me think. If both pumps are running, as at departure, and they are in parallel, the flow will be more then twice as needed. If there is some half-blockage, like Bob Harrison experienced, this increased fuel flow could more easily suck in more debris and lead to a full block. My solution for having (almost) always electricity to drive at least one pump is to have 2 completely independent electrical systems. That is the original generator, regulator and (small) battery, and a second generator with built in regulator and separate battery. Both pumps and the avionics will be wired to 3 position toggle switches, pos up circuit one, pos middle off, pos down circuit 2. At departure and landing pump one will be on circuit one, and pump 2 on circuit 2. Power to the pumps will be indicated by a led. I am still thinking about a relay system that cuts the generators and avionics off, while connecting both batteries to get maximum cranking power at start. Will probably decide against it, because the extra components will add error possibilities. Kind Regards, Jos Okhuijsen ----------------


    Message 20


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    Time: 12:53:48 PM PST US
    From: "MICHAEL PARKIN" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
    Subject: 914 Fuel Pumps.
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com> I am not sure whether it was Europa or not, but I heard that someone was investigating putting the manual fuel pump on the 914 with electrical back up pumps for the high demand situation. Sounds like a good idea to me. Does anyone know anything about it. regards, Mike


    Message 21


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    Time: 12:55:50 PM PST US
    From: "MICHAEL PARKIN" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
    Subject: MAC Servo Indicator.
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com> Does anyone have an old, unwanted and broken LED type position indicator that comes with the MAC servo. It doesn't matter if it is in the bottom of the gash box. I need one for an experiment. cheers, Mike


    Message 22


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    Time: 12:56:09 PM PST US
    From: "Dean Seitz" <daseitz@cfl.rr.com>
    Subject: Fuel pumps in series can get blocked
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dean Seitz" <daseitz@cfl.rr.com> -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Krzyzewski Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:03 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel pumps in series can get blocked --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz> << For new installations the Rotax manual now shows pumps in series with << bypass valves If one pump can bypass the other with the check valves then they are not really in series. Not sure what it is called but it's a combination of series and parallel. Each pump can pump around the other but each pump also helps the other with pressure and suction. Dean


    Message 23


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    Time: 01:53:37 PM PST US
    From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Aileron bellcrank assembly
    --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Hi Keith. I had the same problem. If you look at my build photos in "Chapter Eight Starboard Wing" you can see two bar shims behind the crank brackets. They move the assembly aft and give you the clearance you need. Hope that helps... Tailwinds Brian Skelly Europa XS TriGear #A276 North Texas USA You can see my build photos at: www.europaowners.org/brians


    Message 24


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    Time: 01:57:37 PM PST US
    From: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
    Subject: Re: 914 Fuel Pumps.
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz> With regard to putting a mechanical pump back on to the 914. I investigated this some time ago and found that non of the pump drive gearing is present in the 914 gearbox so it would be a major mod Tony.


    Message 25


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    Time: 02:05:42 PM PST US
    From: "Ing. Gottfried Komaier" <gottfried.komaier@gmx.net>
    Subject: 914 Fuel Pumps.
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ing. Gottfried Komaier" <gottfried.komaier@gmx.net> Mike, Here is the way I'll doing. I have the mechanical pump as a standby-pump on the engine. The fuel is going through the pump all the time in bypass, that means all the fuel which is going through the mechanical pump goes via a electrical valve back to the tank. In an electrical emergency, the valve closes and the pump keeps the engine running up to ~2000m and ~55% power. The fuel-pressure (Airbox pressure + 0,35 bar) is secured up to this altitude and power setting. You can check the Airbox-Differential-pressure with the new "uma"-gauge. www.umainstruments.com This instrument is the only indicator for the fuel pressure on 914 engines which makes sense. For checking the bypass-system the electrical pumps can switched off momentarily after engine start. Regards, Gottfried -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von MICHAEL PARKIN Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. Februar 2006 21:52 An: Europa-List@Matronics.Com Betreff: Europa-List: 914 Fuel Pumps. --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" --> <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com> I am not sure whether it was Europa or not, but I heard that someone was investigating putting the manual fuel pump on the 914 with electrical back up pumps for the high demand situation. Sounds like a good idea to me. Does anyone know anything about it. regards, Mike


    Message 26


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    Time: 02:14:12 PM PST US
    From: "Ing. Gottfried Komaier" <gottfried.komaier@gmx.net>
    Subject: 914 Fuel Pumps.
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ing. Gottfried Komaier" <gottfried.komaier@gmx.net> Tony, all the 914 have the eccenter for the pump-drive installed.This is the status since around 2003. I can't say how the situation was before. Regards, Gottfried -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Tony Krzyzewski Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. Februar 2006 22:56 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: Europa-List: 914 Fuel Pumps. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz> With regard to putting a mechanical pump back on to the 914. I investigated this some time ago and found that non of the pump drive gearing is present in the 914 gearbox so it would be a major mod Tony.


    Message 27


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    Time: 03:07:07 PM PST US
    From: Keith Hickling <keithhickling@clear.net.nz>
    Subject: Aileron bellcrank assembly
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Keith Hickling <keithhickling@clear.net.nz> Hi Nev, Ron and others, Many thanks for your responses. It is reassuring to hear others have experienced this. Yes, the glue line between the web of the double rib and spar is quite thick. Alloy shims the width of the bracket flanges sounds good - washers would not support the brackets so firmly I guess. Regards, Keith Hickling, Dunedin, New Zealand. Tail, ailerons, flaps completed Wing reinforcements and W18 plates installed working on cockpit module 8 months into build Nev wrote: --> Europa-List message posted by: NevEyre@aol.com Hi Keith, Interference [ or not ] of the push rod with the double rib forward web, is dependent on the thickness of the Redux glue line between the web and the spar, [ as supplied].Chances are yours has a thick glue line ? I have seen many that needed the hole relieved all the way to the web, and some that needed the belcrank brackets to be shimmed aft'. Use alloy shims, as thick as required, the same size as the flange of the bracket [ washers will not do !] Hope this helps ? Cheers, Nev.


    Message 28


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    Time: 03:07:07 PM PST US
    From: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
    Subject: Re: RE: 914 Fuel System
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl> I wonder if there have been electric fuel pump changes. The series vs. parallel recommendation may have something to do with the characteristics of the fuel pumps: more "flow source" (offering constant flow, any required pressure) or more "pressure source" (offering constant pressure, any required flow). In the first case you would want a series connection, in the second a parallel one. Just a thought. Cheers, Jan de Jong 461, second wing.


    Message 29


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    Time: 05:22:20 PM PST US
    From: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
    Subject: Re: 914 Fuel Pumps.
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz> Gottfried Thanks for the update re the pump fitting. Mine is an earlier engine and all I have is an empty space under the cover where the mechanical pump would sit. Tony


    Message 30


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    Time: 07:58:09 PM PST US
    From: "MICHAEL PARKIN" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
    Subject: Re: 914 Fuel Pumps.
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com> Tony, My aircraft predates 2003 also - another busted flush I guess. regards, MP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 1:16 AM Subject: Re: AW: Europa-List: 914 Fuel Pumps. > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz> > > Gottfried > > Thanks for the update re the pump fitting. Mine is an earlier engine and > all I have is an empty space under the cover where the mechanical pump > would sit. > > Tony > > >


    Message 31


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    Time: 11:06:22 PM PST US
    From: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: RE: 914 Fuel System
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net> I like to approach the problem by analyzing the possible failure modes. Not knowing the exact function principle of the Pierburg pump from Rotax, I take the assumption that at any time a pump could fail mechanically in a way that the pump will not crate pressure and also will not block the fuel flow in the reverse direction.In the original parallel design you are in trouble now because you have a short circuit through the defective pump and you are no longer able to maintain pressure. The second failure could be: Clogging up filter elements. The two pumps in series will produce a higher pressure. This could might be helpful if the filter starts to clog up and might could still get you over the fence. Just my penny of thoughts. Michael Grass A266 Trigear Detroit. Building stopped, way to cold in Michigan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 5:33 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: 914 Fuel System > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk> > > I think that if there was a good reason for the pumps not to be in > parallel > then we would have seen an SB mandating the change to series. > > Simon > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > BEBERRY@aol.com > Sent: 22 February 2006 09:25 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: 914 Fuel System > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com > > > I have followed the recent parallel v series argument with interest. As > the > > owner of a 914 with pumps in parallel and have no occasion in Europe to > fly > > above say 7,000ft and then seldom, I wonder if some one more erudite than > I > > could explain what problems I am likely to encounter and whether I should > consider a modification? > > Patrick > > >




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