Europa-List Digest Archive

Sun 03/05/06


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:18 AM - Re: Europa Club Events 2006 (William Mills)
     2. 07:53 AM - Re: 914 fuel pumps (Simon Smith)
     3. 07:56 AM - 914 question - 5 minute limit (Simon Smith)
     4. 08:34 AM - Re: 5 minute limit (Gilles Thesee)
     5. 09:48 AM - Re: 914 fuel pumps (Gilles Thesee)
     6. 10:43 AM - Re: 914 fuel pumps (Simon Smith)
     7. 10:47 AM - Re: 914 fuel pumps (Gilles Thesee)
     8. 10:52 AM - Re: 5 minute limit (Paul McAllister)
     9. 11:09 AM - Fitting the tail wheel fairing (Paul McAllister)
    10. 11:10 AM - Re: 914 fuel pumps (Gilles Thesee)
    11. 11:47 AM - Re: Fitting the tail wheel fairing (josok)
    12. 11:47 AM - Re: XS mono wheel trailer (Jerry Rehn)
    13. 11:57 AM - Re: Fitting the tail wheel fairing (Tony Krzyzewski)
    14. 11:58 AM - Re: Europa Flyer #47 (nigel charles)
    15. 01:00 PM - Re: 5 minute limit (James)
    16. 03:50 PM - EF#47 (Cliff Shaw)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:18:55 AM PST US
    From: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
    Subject: Re: Europa Club Events 2006
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com> Likewise, Bryan, I am happy with the dates for the Six (or so) Nations and the Last (almost) of the Summer Wine. The Six Nations hopefully will include the Alps and the L O T S W is generally in the west, but we are sometimes governed by the weather. If any Continental friends wish to join in, or meet us enroute for an evening or so, you will be most welcome. My 'phone number is 01495 785499. Best wishes, William ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 12:21 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Club Events 2006 > --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" > <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> > > Bryan, just to say that I am now happy with the dates for the T de F & the > Canaries trip so they can be advertised. Some mention about the T de F > being > designed to experience & taste the best of France, with the general aim of > appealing to wives and also offering support to any first time foreign > tourers, would be appropriate. Enquiries to me on email or 01454260542. > Cheers, David > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Bbryanallsop@wmconnect.com> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 1:33 AM > Subject: Europa-List: Europa Club Events 2006 > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: Bbryanallsop@wmconnect.com >> >> Hi Folks, >> >> I am compiling the program of events for this year. Many trips are >> already > in >> the diary, but there be something of which we have not been advised. >> >> The British program is quite busy throughout the summer, with the > exemption >> of July, but we are not aware of much Europa Club activity elsewhere. >> >> If you have anything in mind that you would like to be included, please >> advise me as soon as possible. >> >> >> Best regards.......Bryan Allsop >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> National Patient Safety Agency - supporting Doctors.net.uk members in >> safe > practice. >> http://www.doctors.net.uk/NPSA >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> >> > > > -- > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:53:51 AM PST US
    From: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
    Subject: 914 fuel pumps
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk> Further to all the discussion on parallel v series, I put fuel in my aircraft for the first time today and found an interesting "effect" that I had not expected. I have a 914 plumbed the latest series way (Nov 2004 issue 8). With only pump 1 running the fuel flows through "filter 1" which is fairly obviously the only way from the diagram. With pump 2 running, it pulls the fuel through "filter 2" in preference to pulling it through filter 1 and pump 1. However, with both pumps running all the flow is through filter one. I had sort of expected pump 2 to still draw through filter 2 but this is not the case. It would seem that filter 2 will only be used if pump 1 and/or filter 1 fail in some way. Has everyone else found the same or is anyone getting a different flow pattern with the series setup? Simon


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:56:58 AM PST US
    From: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
    Subject: 914 question - 5 minute limit
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk> I've scoured all the books but I have a question to which I cannot find the answer. Assuming you have run at 5800rpm for 5 minutes and then reduced power, when can you increase again? Clearly it is not a 5min total for the whole life of the engine, and I doubt that the other extreme of simply reducing to 5500rpm and immediately going back to 5800rpm applies either. Clearly the answer lies somewhere in between but where? Once per hour? Once per engine start? Once per TCU power-up? Something else??? cheers Simon Smith


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:34:59 AM PST US
    From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
    Subject: Re: 5 minute limit
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> Simon Smith a crit : >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk> > >I've scoured all the books but I have a question to which I cannot find the >answer. > >Assuming you have run at 5800rpm for 5 minutes and then reduced power, when >can you increase again? Clearly it is not a 5min total for the whole life >of the engine, and I doubt that the other extreme of simply reducing to >5500rpm and immediately going back to 5800rpm applies either. Clearly the >answer lies somewhere in between but where? Once per hour? Once per engine >start? Once per TCU power-up? Something else??? > > > Hi Simon and all, Good question indeed. We chose to adopt once per takeoff. And I retard to 100% power as soon as I'm airborne and climbing. Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:48:25 AM PST US
    From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
    Subject: Re: 914 fuel pumps
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> Simon Smith a crit : >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk> > > >Further to all the discussion on parallel v series, I put fuel in my >aircraft for the first time today and found an interesting "effect" that I >had not expected. > >I have a 914 plumbed the latest series way (Nov 2004 issue 8). > >With only pump 1 running the fuel flows through "filter 1" which is fairly >obviously the only way from the diagram. With pump 2 running, it pulls the >fuel through "filter 2" in preference to pulling it through filter 1 and >pump 1. However, with both pumps running all the flow is through filter >one. I had sort of expected pump 2 to still draw through filter 2 but this >is not the case. It would seem that filter 2 will only be used if pump 1 >and/or filter 1 fail in some way. Has everyone else found the same or is >anyone getting a different flow pattern with the series setup? > > Simon and all, Not too easy to figure out your fuel system, if you're not a Europa builder ;-) From what you're telling us, I believe you've plumbed per the Rotax "series" diagram. What I'm not sure of is, where is your "filter 2" ? The "series" system draws fuel from only one point, so why a "filter 2" ? What you need is a finger mesh strainer at each tank pickup point, a drainable gascolator upstream of the pump assembly, and a drainable sump at the lowest point of the fuel tank. Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:43:57 AM PST US
    From: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
    Subject: 914 fuel pumps
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk> - >Not too easy to figure out your fuel system, if you're not a Europa >builder ;-) Sorry! See http://www.europa-aircraft.biz/pdfs/914xs.pdf Chapter 5 Simon


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:47:17 AM PST US
    From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
    Subject: Re: 914 fuel pumps
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> Hi Jan and all, > >Very interesting. >My numbers are from the pump data published by Pierburg (on your site) >and Rotax. >[...] >Don't know what to think. It seems incredible that actual performance >could be less than half the published performance. > >[...] > Let's do a small "thought experiment" : if we have an adjustable valve at the end of the fuel line, couldn't we adjust fuel flow by screwing in or out the valve knob ? > >I'm very interested in the results of your further experiments. > >And I hope you get more flow results from people. > > I'm in the process of crafting a new "fuel pressure regulator" page. I'm willing to publish results from builders experiments. Measuring flow and pressures is easier when the airplane is not finished. Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:52:31 AM PST US
    From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
    Subject: 5 minute limit
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net> Simon, I know that this doesn't answer your question, but, the need for the 5 minute boost is very infrequent. I find on my Europa that I tend to use it on grass strips of 1500 feet or less when I am at MUW or, when the density altitude is greater that 5000' and I am at MUW. I find that I only need it for 2 minutes at the most when I do kick it in. It does make quite a difference, much more than I would expect for a 15 HP boost and its sure nice to have that extra bit under the hood if you ever need it. Paul N378PJ


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:09:18 AM PST US
    From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
    Subject: Fitting the tail wheel fairing
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net> Hi all, I have never got around to fitting the tail wheel fairing and I thought while I was doing my annual condition inspection that now would be a good time. I have Grahams tailwheel mod and as such it has a different plate that attaches to the tailwheel for the rudder cables. I was wondering if anyone out there that fitted the fairing that has Grahams modification. The question is, the fairing has scribe lines to cut the slot in it for the rudder horn, are these correct for the rudder horn that Graham supplies as well, or are the way off. If someone could give me an idea before I start cutting I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Paul


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:10:06 AM PST US
    From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
    Subject: Re: 914 fuel pumps
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> Simon Smith a crit : > >See http://www.europa-aircraft.biz/pdfs/914xs.pdf > > > Simon, Thank you for the link. Now I get it ! The behavior of your system is quite normal, considering the way it is set up. Normal operation (pump 1 is assumed to be primary pump) Pump 1 draws fuel through filter 1, then pushes it through check valve 2. Takeoff/landing : both pumps on Pump 1 draws fuel through filter 1, then pump 2 adds pressure to the already pressurize fuel downstream of pump 1. Pressure downstream of check valve 1 is the same as downstream of pump 1, so the fuel has no reason to flow through check valve 1 and filter 2. Emergency : pump 1 unserviceable Pump 2 draws fuel via check valve 1 and filter 2. This seems a bizarre setup, where filter 2 is only there for a ride, except in the rare event of a primary pump failure. But there is nothing wrong with it, provided you have a drainable sump in the tank, and a drainable gascolator aupstream of the pumps. By the way, the fuel pickup points appear to be at the front tank bulkhead, whereas they would be much more wisely located at the REAR of the tank, for the sake of nose-high fuel supply. Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:47:14 AM PST US
    Subject: RE: Fitting the tail wheel fairing
    From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi> I've been holding the thing against the horn Paul, and i think we will have to scribe our own lines. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen ----------------


    Message 12


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    Time: 11:47:14 AM PST US
    From: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com>
    Subject: Re: XS mono wheel trailer
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com> Vaughn, The hicth to axle is 170 inches, Hub to hub (Inside) is70 inches, ground to bottom of rail ( where tail wheel rides) is 14.5 inches. Good luck. Regards Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vaughn & Gaye Teegarden" <N914VA@starband.net> Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 7:41 AM Subject: Europa-List: XS mono wheel trailer > > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 11:57:43 AM PST US
    Subject: Fitting the tail wheel fairing
    From: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz> >>> The question is, the fairing has scribe lines to cut the slot in it for the rudder horn, are these correct for the rudder horn that Graham supplies as well, or are the way off. Paul, I started off with the original slots cut to half of their depth and then extended the shape by trial and error. You'll also need to allow for a further extension to allow for the stop block that sits on top of the arm. Graham's rudder horn is quite a bit larger at the outer edges where is passes through the fairing so you'll end up going quite a way beyond the original markings. Tony


    Message 14


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    Time: 11:58:59 AM PST US
    From: "nigel charles" <nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: Europa Flyer #47
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk> Hi Cliff I did not submit the photo with my article. As I was unable to supply any photos I think Peter our editor inserted the photo to add a bit of visual interest. Sorry if it caused any embarrassment. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cliff Shaw Sent: 04 March 2006 22:06 Subject: Europa-List: Europa Flyer #47 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net> All I really enjoy the day that the Europa Flyer arrives way over here on the West coast of USA. I was reading each and ever article and every advertisement one by one very carefully. Paul McAllister's article was very good. I came upon a wiring article by Nigel Charles. I almost feel off my chair when I saw the photo on page 12. How could any one have messed up a panel wiring job as bad as that :) ? There was no credit given to the picture, so I will claim it. I really had to look in my photo library to confirm it, but I admit that is my panel viewed from the back. The instrument missing for the panel is the Dynon D10. It was not available at the time. Keep building and happy flying. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE


    Message 15


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    Time: 01:00:17 PM PST US
    From: "James" <jthursby@tampabay.rr.com>
    Subject: 5 minute limit
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "James" <jthursby@tampabay.rr.com> I left Lakeland with the company demonstrator once to see what it would do. On a cool morning with about ten gallons fuel and no baggage. I put the throttle to the stop and pulled to 67 or 68 mph after takeoff and left it there until the computer said it was time to stop and opened the waste gate. At 11,050 feet agl was the top of the climb and it did it in 8 minutes 30 seconds. That's around 1,330? average climb rate per minute. Not too bad. The red light comes on at five minutes regardless of whether the airbox is over temperature or not, but the boost stays the same unless it over temps. Remember, Ivan used to run the Sun 60 race in full boost for the whole 60 miles! And then Pete Clark would fly his acro routine later on the same day. Jim T -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllister Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 1:51 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: 5 minute limit --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" --> <paul.mcallister@qia.net> Simon, I know that this doesn't answer your question, but, the need for the 5 minute boost is very infrequent. I find on my Europa that I tend to use it on grass strips of 1500 feet or less when I am at MUW or, when the density altitude is greater that 5000' and I am at MUW. I find that I only need it for 2 minutes at the most when I do kick it in. It does make quite a difference, much more than I would expect for a 15 HP boost and its sure nice to have that extra bit under the hood if you ever need it. Paul N378PJ


    Message 16


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    Time: 03:50:14 PM PST US
    From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
    Subject: EF#47
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net> Nigel and All You wrote a very good article and I am flattered that a picture of my panel was used. I really have been getting more than my share of press lately, don't you think. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE do not archive




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