Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:21 AM - Re: Pitch Forces (JEFF ROBERTS)
2. 10:58 AM - Door Pull (astills)
3. 11:47 AM - Re: Door Pull (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
4. 11:51 AM - Re: Door Pull (nigel charles)
5. 12:15 PM - Re: Door Pull (R.C.Harrison)
6. 01:16 PM - Re: Door Pull (Jos Okhuijsen)
7. 01:25 PM - ELT testing (Steve Hagar)
8. 03:17 PM - Re: Door Pull (R.C.Harrison)
9. 03:17 PM - Re: Monowheel Jacking (Tony Bale)
10. 03:22 PM - Re: Door Pull (KARL HEINDL)
11. 03:57 PM - Re: Door Pull (nigel charles)
12. 04:05 PM - Re: Door Pull (nigel charles)
13. 04:20 PM - Re: Siun-N-Fun was fun - EFIS (sonex293)
14. 06:27 PM - Re: Door Pull ()
15. 06:47 PM - Re: Door Pull (Rman)
16. 08:28 PM - Re: Door Pull (Hazel Peregrym)
17. 11:09 PM - Re: Door Pull (Mike Parkin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pitch Forces |
--> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
Hi Jeff,
Not sure if I'll have the 40 off. I'm having a serious time problem
right now. We have started building on the property I showed you. As
most people that have this flying disease I have built the
hanger/apartment first. Working on it, the land, running my business in
it's busy time, and flying off the 40. I need a clone!
There is nothing that sounds better than getting away for a Europa
weekend. If I cant fly to it I may even drive.
Thanks Bob H. and Jeff for your responses and keep me posted on the
date in May at Mathews.
Happy Easter to All!
Jeff
A258 Flying off the 40
On Apr 15, 2006, at 8:51 PM, Rman wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Rman <topglock@cox.net>
>
> Jeff,
>
> I think the heavier pitch forces are normal. I've noticed the same
> thing in Baby Blue. Never a problem, though, as the Europa responds
> quickly to "ANY" movement of the stick.
>
> On a side note, are you going to be up for the meeting with John at
> Mattlews in mid May?
>
> Jeff - Baby Blue N55XS
> 164 hours
>
> JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
>>
>> Hi All,
>> As a low time pilot that is enjoying his finished toy, I have noticed
>> the pitch forces are quite a bit greater than that of the aileron.
>> Thats while sitting on the ground or in the air at maneuvering speeds.
>> Reading other plane reviews over the years authors have noted this to
>> not be good or desirable.
>> I on the other hand haven't found it annoying but am wondering if
>> other
>> Europas are like this. None of the push rods seem to be rubbing
>> anywhere. Is their any lubricant others have used and if so where has
>> it had the best effect? Any Ideas or advice would be appreciated.
>> Thanks In advance,
>> Jeff R.
>> A258 / Gold Rush... Flying off the 40
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "astills" <astills@cox.net>
For those of you that put door pulls on the back of the doors...how did you
attach them ,
without cutting an access hole or did you have to cut one. I don't wnat to
cut an access hole
as that would weaken the area of the pull.
Al Stills
N625AZ
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good Mornin Al,
I just installed door pulls on both doors. I drilled a hole from the
outside, filed slots on both sides of the hole in order to insert a fender washer
using a hemostat, then inserted a screw and tightened it. Afterwards, I filled
the holes with flox mix until it was just above the hole and then covered it
with piece of plastic sheet that was stiff enough to stay flush with the
surface. This gave the final result a smooth flush finish that should not be
noticeable when painted.
I sent two pix to your address for clarification.
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk>
I drilled a pair of holes as close to the edge of the door as practical
to retain rigidity. These holes were for nutserts(available from
Wicks)allowing blind fixing of door pulls. These have been in use for
about 5 years without any problems. The door pulls only need to exert
enough pull to ensure the shoot bolts engage into their holes rather
than outside the door frame.
As in the early days a few aircraft managed to lose a door in flight due
to the rear shoot bolts not engaging, I decided to include microswitches
to warn if a door was not fully closed. These also work well and have on
more than one occasion brought my attention to the fact that a door was
not closed properly. This is often when an inexperienced passenger has
closed the door (a very good reason for pilots to do an independent
check). Rear door pulls minimise the risk of this but microswitches,
wiring and warning lights weigh next to nothing and give an extra layer
of safety.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of astills
Sent: 16 April 2006 18:36
Subject: Europa-List: Door Pull
--> Europa-List message posted by: "astills" <astills@cox.net>
For those of you that put door pulls on the back of the doors...how did
you
attach them ,
without cutting an access hole or did you have to cut one. I don't wnat
to
cut an access hole
as that would weaken the area of the pull.
Al Stills
N625AZ
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi!Alan
I put wooden ones on level with the head rests with long pop rivets and
find I never use them .....too difficult to screw round in your seat. I
do all the pulling(and pushing forward ) on the front lever guard.
Otherwise stop biting your nails !!!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of astills
Sent: 16 April 2006 18:36
Subject: Europa-List: Door Pull
--> Europa-List message posted by: "astills" <astills@cox.net>
For those of you that put door pulls on the back of the doors...how did
you
attach them ,
without cutting an access hole or did you have to cut one. I don't wnat
to
cut an access hole
as that would weaken the area of the pull.
Al Stills
N625AZ
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
That's what i thought Bob, sitting in this half finished plane, trying to
pull the door shut. I think i will make a 2 finger grab ledge on the
window sill, as much aft as possible, but before where my shoulders should
be. Would that work?
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http:www.europaowners.org/kit600
mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail
closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed,
fuel system in, doors fitting.
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
I'm getting down to the little odd and ends things to do before the rubber meets
the road (or shall I say the air meets the wings). I got to testing the ELT
today (Orange Ameri-King unit). I receive the same warbling transmission
in the "arm" position as I do in the "on" position. The box has been kicking
around in the aircraft and garage for well over 2 years. I am thinking perhaps
it has gotten impacted and the accellerometer has been latched so it is
transmitting. The reset buttons do not stop the tone on 121.5 in the arm mode.
Does anyone have any experience troubleshooting these things?
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa, AZ
Steve Hagar
hagargs@earthlink.net
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Jos.
IMHO and with 600 hours experience ......I always put the passenger in
and shut his door (except my trusted Ivor Phillips) Then as I
said.....with my door provided it is pushed FORWARD and pulled to with
the door lever guard as the lever is operated shuts without a problem
THEN THE PASSENGER IS REQUESTED TO DO A VISUAL CHECK ON THE REAR OF MY
DOOR.
Of course the electrical verification is good gear but that ain't
anything to do with pulling the door,.......... on the other hand if you
are a .......contortionist!
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jos
Okhuijsen
Sent: 16 April 2006 21:11
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door Pull
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
That's what i thought Bob, sitting in this half finished plane, trying
to
pull the door shut. I think i will make a 2 finger grab ledge on the
window sill, as much aft as possible, but before where my shoulders
should
be. Would that work?
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http:www.europaowners.org/kit600
mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail
closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed,
fuel system in, doors fitting.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Monowheel Jacking |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Bale" <tony.bale@virgin.net>
John,
We have now raised '336' 3 times for various reasons, once with
a hoist and twice with a forklift. When using the hoist take care, the
aircraft will roll a long way forward when you lift it, it will also be
unstable and drop wings etc. We were fortunate to be building on a farm so
had access to a big forklift, this is much easier and cleaner if you have
the option. We found the hoist very restrictive, and easy to damage the
fuselage so protect it and the wings - however you may not have the option.
One word of caution (and this is very obvious in hindsight) - leave the
retraction tests as late as possible and dont work around the flap / gear
mechanism afterwards unless you have to. We simply fitted a small stowage
box in the rear luggage shelf and found out on the flight test it restricted
undercarriage dropping - and we had tested the gear 50+ times prior to
flight.
We lifted from the undercarriage / engine mount without problems, but if you
use a hoist remeber to add your weight to the aircrafts to make sure you
have sufficient capacity (aircraft weight circa 800 lb depending on build)
and get the longest arm possible.
ATB
Tony.
100 hours up and planning to fit the Airmaster, just preparing for the first
annual and working on the C of G mods (battery etc).
----- Original Message -----
From: "JonSmith" <jon.smith680@tesco.net>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 1:48 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel Jacking
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "JonSmith" <jon.smith680@tesco.net>
>
> Hi all, Sorry to "raise" this subject yet again - but I'd just like to ask
people's opinion...
> Is it considered safe practice to lift a fully rigged monowheel for the
retraction test/ inspection using a hoist?
> In the past I've always messed around with jacks and trestles under the
wing spars which works fine, if a little precarious! A friend though has a
hydraulic engine hoist which seems ideal and much easier - I was just
worried that there would be a lot of weight suspended from a single point on
the airframe.
> Where is the best place to attach the strap? I've heard talk about using
the undercarriage mounting frame just behind the engine mounts??
> If someone could reassure me - or otherwise - I'd be most grateful!
> Best Regards,
> Jon
> ----------------
>
>
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
I agree, it is one of many completely unnecessary jobs. The doors usually
close at both ends. I always test the right door back corner by pushing with
my right hand, and the left door by pushing with my elbow.
Karl
>From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Europa-List: Door Pull
>Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 20:11:02 +0100
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
>
>Hi!Alan
>I put wooden ones on level with the head rests with long pop rivets and
>find I never use them .....too difficult to screw round in your seat. I
>do all the pulling(and pushing forward ) on the front lever guard.
>Otherwise stop biting your nails !!!
>
>Regards
>Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of astills
>Sent: 16 April 2006 18:36
>To: Europa-List@Matronics. Com
>Subject: Europa-List: Door Pull
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "astills" <astills@cox.net>
>
>For those of you that put door pulls on the back of the doors...how did
>you
>attach them ,
>without cutting an access hole or did you have to cut one. I don't wnat
>to
>cut an access hole
>as that would weaken the area of the pull.
>
>Al Stills
>N625AZ
>
>
Message 11
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk>
>THE PASSENGER IS REQUESTED TO DO A VISUAL CHECK ON THE REAR OF MY
DOOR.
Of course the electrical verification is good gear but that ain't
anything to do with pulling the door,.......... on the other hand if you
are a .......contortionist!<
I am not prepared to rely on a passenger to check any aspect which will
affect flight safety. Maybe it is OK if your passenger is very familiar
but at the end of the day it is down to the pilot.
I would be more inclined to use the passenger to use the door pull on
the port door whilst I close it. I can then check that it is closed
either electrically or visually. My microswitches are very sensitive and
turn on the light even when the handle is only lifted 5mm. There action
is in effect tested every time the door is open or closed.
Nigel Charles
Message 12
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk>
>I agree, it is one of many completely unnecessary jobs. The doors
usually
close at both ends. <
Some doors fit better than others. Slight distortion often means that
the door has to be pushed forward at the base as it is closed otherwise
the rear latch will not engage. Fitting door pulls and microswitches is
only half a day's work. Should any door latch not get engaged properly
the door will leave the aircraft once it is airborne resulting in a much
bigger job later apart from the flight safety implications. Fortunately
it has been some time since we had a door come off in flight. Perhaps we
are all being vigilant enough with our checks.
Regardless of whether these items are fitted make sure your doors are
closed properly before every flight.
Nigel Charles
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Siun-N-Fun was fun - EFIS |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "sonex293" <sonex293@nc.rr.com>
hdwysong(at)gmail.com wrote:
> I'll report back once we put some bench time on the unit if you wish.
>
Please give us an update when you can! I placed an order for a EFIS/Lite Plus
at Sun-n-Fun, but won't be flying for quite some time. Due to a waiting list,
BMA didn't expect my order to ship until mid May.
--
Michael
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28829#28829
Message 14
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--> Europa-List message posted by: <jaussi@ubtanet.com>
I built up small foam bumps...about 3 inches long and 3/8" high on the lower
window frame and about 3" behind center then glassed them over with bid.
This gives enough grip for pull as most of the pressure in mine needs to be
down and in. They are really not very noticeable visually.
Curtis Jaussi N6125A
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of astills
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 11:36 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Door Pull
--> Europa-List message posted by: "astills" <astills@cox.net>
For those of you that put door pulls on the back of the doors...how did you
attach them ,
without cutting an access hole or did you have to cut one. I don't wnat to
cut an access hole
as that would weaken the area of the pull.
Al Stills
N625AZ
--
Message 15
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Rman <topglock@cox.net>
I would have done the same thing, had I not already painted my doors.
However, I've found that a piece of aluminum, bent to the right shape
and bonded to the door, then riveted on the side and screwed from the
top works very well. My doors seal so tight that the pull was
necessary. As to controting around to sue them, I find that leaving my
shoulders outlide of the harness, until the doors are sealed, allows me
to turn enough, in the seat to get the job done. When Mary is with me,
I pull her door and she pulls mine... ;)
Jeff - Baby Blue
164 hours
jaussi@ubtanet.com wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: <jaussi@ubtanet.com>
>
>I built up small foam bumps...about 3 inches long and 3/8" high on the lower
>window frame and about 3" behind center then glassed them over with bid.
>This gives enough grip for pull as most of the pressure in mine needs to be
>down and in. They are really not very noticeable visually.
>
>Curtis Jaussi N6125A
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of astills
>Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 11:36 AM
>To: Europa-List@Matronics. Com
>Subject: Europa-List: Door Pull
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "astills" <astills@cox.net>
>
>For those of you that put door pulls on the back of the doors...how did you
>attach them ,
>without cutting an access hole or did you have to cut one. I don't wnat to
>cut an access hole
>as that would weaken the area of the pull.
>
>Al Stills
>N625AZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Hazel Peregrym" <snowgoose@telus.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "astills" <astills@cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Door Pull
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "astills" <astills@cox.net>
>
> For those of you that put door pulls on the back of the doors...how did
> you
> attach them ,
> without cutting an access hole or did you have to cut one. I don't wnat to
> cut an access hole
> as that would weaken the area of the pull.
>
> Al Stills
> N625AZ
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Fitting door pulls and microswitches is only half a day's work.
> Should any door latch not get engaged properly
> the door will leave the aircraft once it is airborne resulting in a much
> bigger job later apart from the flight safety implications. Fortunately
> it has been some time since we had a door come off in flight. Perhaps we
> are all being vigilant enough with our checks.
>
It seems to me that this MOD comes under the heading of desirable rather
than essential. It is a nice touch but unnecessary if you give the door a
visual inspection during/after closing. If the door is not latched
properly, it is very obvious - 'If you look'. It would be total buffoonery
to miss an incorrectly latched front bolt - the rear latch is more likely.
However, to say the 'door will leave the aircraft' once airborne is also
incorrect - it happened once to me and the door stayed on.
I am more diligent about checking the door now and I hope that if I
incorrectly close the door and I do not visually check for correct closing
that the error and the omission do not occur at the same time. I would
concede though Nigel that, such a an event would likely be prevented by the
existence of microswitches. (Unless the third hole were to line up in the
error chain).
Incidentally, when I took off with the rear latch incorrectly engaged, the
first indication was an unusal flow of hot air entering the cockpit through
the gear lever slot - a dead give away if you have felt it before.
regards,
Mike
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