Europa-List Digest Archive

Wed 04/19/06


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:40 AM - Re: Good news, bad news (BEBERRY@aol.com)
     2. 01:14 AM - Re: Good news, bad news (Richard Holder)
     3. 01:41 AM - Re : Rotax 914 Fuel FLow (Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr)
     4. 01:51 AM - Re: Good news, bad news (josok)
     5. 02:41 AM - Re: Re: Good news, bad news (BEBERRY@aol.com)
     6. 03:47 AM - Re: Rotax 914 Fuel FLow (Trevpond@aol.com)
     7. 04:23 AM - Re: Rotax 914 Fuel FLow (Simon Smith)
     8. 05:33 AM - Re: Good news, bad news  (Jim Butcher)
     9. 05:45 AM - Re: Re: Good news, bad news (Chris Beck)
    10. 10:27 AM - Re: Good news, bad news (Terry Seaver (terrys))
    11. 10:57 AM - Re: Rotax 914 Fuel FLow (Jerry Rehn)
    12. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: Good news, bad news (SPurpura@aol.com)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:40:03 AM PST US
    From: BEBERRY@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Good news, bad news
    --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com In a message dated 19/04/2006 00:35:15 GMT Daylight Time, n9zes@verizon.net writes: ---> I can't speak to the prop pitch issue, but I did just resolve an idle speed issue with our 140. In the process of getting the idle mixture sorted (too rich), I ended up with an idle speed of about 800 rpm or even a little more. It would taxi pretty good at 'idle', and landing was an absolute b!tch!!!! I made some REALLY ugly landings trying to get it on the ground. Once we got the idle adjusted to the proper 575 - 600 rpm, it lands like an absolute pussy cat. Chris - that is really interesting. There is no way that I can get my 914 to idle smoothly at less than about 1400 rpm and indeed in the manual 1700 is recommended to get a smooth runner. How do you do it?? I am very puzzled as if I adjust the throttle so that I can get below 1400 or so then the engine will stutter and stop and at say 1450 it will just run but 'misses' and is uneven, which is not good for the weaer on bearings etc. Enlighten us please. Patrick


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:14:35 AM PST US
    From: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Good news, bad news
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk> > In a message dated 19/04/2006 00:35:15 GMT Daylight > Time, n9zes@verizon.net writes: > > ---> I can't speak to the prop pitch issue, but I did > just resolve an idle speed issue with our 140. In the > process of getting the idle mixture sorted (too rich), > I ended up with an idle speed of about 800 rpm or even > a little more. It would taxi pretty good at 'idle', > and landing was an absolute b!tch!!!! I made some > REALLY ugly landings trying to get it on the ground. > > Once we got the idle adjusted to the proper 575 - 600 > rpm, it lands like an absolute pussy cat. BEBERRY@aol.com wrote: > Chris - that is really interesting. There is no way > that I can get my 914 to idle smoothly at less than > about 1400 rpm and indeed in the manual 1700 is > recommended to get a smooth runner. How do you do it?? > > > I am very puzzled as if I adjust the throttle so that I > can get below 1400 or so then the engine will stutter > and stop and at say 1450 it will just run but 'misses' > and is uneven, which is not good for the weaer on > bearings etc. > > Enlighten us please. > > Patrick Patrick - you may find he was talking about a 140 ! A Cessna 140 which has a Lycoming ! Not a Rotax :-) Richard


    Message 3


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    Time: 01:41:53 AM PST US
    From: Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr
    Subject: Rotax 914 Fuel FLow
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr ----- Message d'origine ----- De: Jim Butcher <europa@triton.net> Objet: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Fuel FLow > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net> > > I'm trying to get our fuel computer working properly. I have > transducers on the fuel going into the engine and fuel being > returned to the tank. What is the fuel flow others see at these > places at reasonable power levels, say 70, 80 or 90%? Mine seem > to top out at about 35 gph but I think that's a calibration problem. > Jim, The fuel flow vs power numbers are in the Rotax 914 Owner's Manual. We cruise at 75 % power, with 20-21 L/h FF. At 115 % the fuel flow is in the 33 L/h range. Maybe your instrument reads in liters, or something is wrong with your return transducer. Note that 35 gph seems not unlike the total flow through the system, engne consumption plus return flow. FWIW, Regards, Gilles Thesee, Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr


    Message 4


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    Time: 01:51:05 AM PST US
    Subject: RE: Good news, bad news
    From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi> Hi All, The Europa XS Rotax 914 engine manual issue 8, which i happened to have in my hands, says quote"You should set the throttle closed stop so that a fully warmed engine idles at 1200-1400 rpm. Although the engine idles more smoothly at 1600 rpm or more, when landing the aircraft you will benefit from minimal residual trust." Makes sense, and i am thinking of a spring kind of closed throttle stop, pull to fully close, release to normal 1600 rpm. Would that work? Kind regards, Jos Okhuijsen ----------------


    Message 5


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    Time: 02:41:24 AM PST US
    From: BEBERRY@aol.com
    Subject: Re: RE: Good news, bad news
    --> Europa-List message posted by: BEBERRY@aol.com In a message dated 19/04/2006 09:51:50 GMT Daylight Time, josok-e@ukolo.fi writes: The Europa XS Rotax 914 engine manual issue 8, which i happened to have in my hands, says quote"You should set the throttle closed stop so that a fully warmed engine idles at 1200-1400 rpm. Although the engine idles more smoothly at 1600 rpm or more, when landing the aircraft you will benefit from minimal residual trust." Makes sense, and i am thinking of a spring kind of closed throttle stop, pull to fully close, release to normal 1600 rpm. Would that work? I think it is good practise to carry out landings and take offs with one hand firmly on the throttle.. In this case there is no need to have any sort of automatic system which will give you a reversion to any particular throttle setting. Patrick


    Message 6


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    Time: 03:47:05 AM PST US
    From: Trevpond@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Rotax 914 Fuel FLow
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Trevpond@aol.com Hi Jim, What sort of computer are you running? Trev Pond


    Message 7


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    Time: 04:23:10 AM PST US
    From: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
    Subject: Rotax 914 Fuel FLow
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk> 35gph (I'm assuming you mean US galls) is 132 lph. The 914 installation manual page 50 suggest that the absolute max that the pumps can deliver is 120 lph. Is the return transducer plumbed/wired correctly? It sounds as though it is adding rather than subtracting. Simon -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Butcher Sent: 18 April 2006 22:44 Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Fuel FLow --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net> I'm trying to get our fuel computer working properly. I have transducers on the fuel going into the engine and fuel being returned to the tank. What is the fuel flow others see at these places at reasonable power levels, say 70, 80 or 90%? Mine seem to top out at about 35 gph but I think that's a calibration problem. Thanks Jim Butcher Europa XS 914


    Message 8


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    Time: 05:33:46 AM PST US
    From: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net>
    Subject: Re: Good news, bad news
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net> Steve, Sounds like you're getting close. Be sure you set the prop limit switches. Ours needed a lot of adjustment - several turns. Seems like we ended up with high limit at 5700 rpm. Also get a prop tach or something to check your Rotax tach - ours was 300 rpm off. Perhaps this is your taxi speed problem. We're on grass, and find that we don't need to use the brakes while taxiing at 1800 rpm. Our empty weight is 966 lbs and CG is 57.98". We modified John Wigney's spreadsheet to figure various CG situations. With our figures, using your 200# pilot, you would need to land with 4 gal of fuel. We used 1500 lbs for our paperwork - remember the quote "what would NTSB say?" in case of an incident, hence the higher weight. In reality we do not anticipate loading over 1450. There is a note from Andy concerning CG at 1450 - basically the range is smaller above 1370 lbs ( I have a copy if you need it). Jim & Heather Butcher N241BW still flight testing Do not archieve


    Message 9


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    Time: 05:45:24 AM PST US
    From: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Good news, bad news
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Chris Beck <n9zes@verizon.net> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder Patrick - you may find he was talking about a 140 ! A Cessna 140 which has a Lycoming ! Not a Rotax :-) Richard --->>> Yes, indeed. Seems I confused a few people by replying regarding our Cessna 140, per the original post regarding C-140 landings along with Rotax idle speed. The C-140 has a Continental C85-12 engine, 85 horsepower. I was just relating my experience with idle speed and landings to see what sort of relation the Rotax idle has to do with how well the Monowheel, in particular, lands. With the gear reduction on the Rotax, which is somewhere around 2.7 to 1 IIRC, a 1400 rpm idle gives a little over 500 rpm prop speed. That should be just fine. Chris


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:27:49 AM PST US
    Subject: Good news, bad news
    From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" <terrys@cisco.com> Hi Steve, Regarding the fine pitch stop, it needs to be adjusted until you can get about 5700 rpm full throttle, with the airplane tied down (we put a rope around the tail wheel axle spacers and park a car wheel on the rope). Ours is set at about 5500-5600 rpm now, which is close enough for us. Once you get moving a little on take-off, the rpms can rise just a little more to get to 5700. For idle speed, we were told by Lockwood that idling below about 1600 rpm can damage the gearbox (this may be more true on the 912S than the others), so we set our idle at about 1600-1700 rpm. We adjust the idle speed (and sync) using the idle set screws on the carbs, and then adjust the throttle cables such that the throttle lever is just off the rear stop of the lever slot, maybe just a few millimeters. This way, if you hold the lever back with your hand, you can reduce the idle just a bit more for landings (by about 50-100 rpm less). It is true that the higher idle speed will cause the plane to float just a bit more on landings, but with the Airmaster prop fine pitch adjusted correctly, we have no problem landing solo with this idle setting. I suspect your plane is taxiing too fast at the higher idle because the fine pitch is set too course. Once you get the fine pitch set correctly, you may find that the taxi speed is more acceptable at idle. I guess another problem could be your tachometer accuracy. We verified ours with an optical prop tach designed for model airplane use. Regards, Terry Seaver A135 / N135TD XS Mono with 912S and Airmaster. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Hagar Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 2:55 PM Subject: Europa-List: Good news, bad news --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net> I took today off as vacation and accomplished quite a bit of Europa work. The plane got its first ride on the dual axel flatbed trailer I fabbed up for it. It went to Falcon Field and back and came out unscathed. (good news) The trailer probably weighs almost 2 times that of the plane and it sits higher than a lot of the traffic. So the plane is protected pretty well. The prop has gotten dynamically balanced and there was a noticeable change even on ground runups. (good news). Initial taxi tests were undertaken and the plane tracks very well. I didn't have to do a bunch of back and forth tap dancing on the rudders to keep it straight on the line as had been my experience in a Cessna 140 and 2 other Europas I had taxied. However being more at ease in my own plane may have led to more measured footwork may account for the better tracking. (good news). On the other hand my low speed taxi was more of a medium speed taxi. With the throttle pulled back to its high i dle (1500-1600) the taxi rate seemed to be approaching a very fast run by a healthy teenager. Brakes were being dragged almost the whole time. (bad news). I haven't set the prop pitch stops yet on the Airmaster and I hope that is the issue. A very cursory quick check showed about 30 degrees on the backside of the prop and an inability to get up to 5000 rpm on one quick full power run. What are those with Airmasters running for fine pitch? The weight and balance was completed and the aircraft as it sits now primered for fly off but now final paint has its Cg about 7/10 of an inch behind the forward limit. (good news). I haven't permanately mounted the battery yet. Right now the battery and its box of sorts in sitting centered under the right access panel of the baggage bay shelf. Where are other's CG's at with an empty weight? I need to do the calculations for all the people, baggage, fuel, aux tank combinations to see if I need to do some fine tuning with the location. Now for the (bad news) the empty weight is just about 900 lbs. Which is about 50 lbs more than I was hoping for, 91 % of the weight is on the mono and 9 % on the tailwheel. With some leeway available in the US for certing the gross wt I would like to call it 1420 to get a good solid 500# payload. I can fill it up with gas and still tote a 175# woman around. Just think of what I could carry with a 125# woman aboard . . .! ! ? I'm 205 sopping wet and I should be 195 so adjusting me should be a lot easier than drilling holes in everything to get more payload. How many out there have their gross weights certificated for greater than 1370? Steve Haga A143 Mesa AZ Getting closer!


    Message 11


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    Time: 10:57:07 AM PST US
    From: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com>
    Subject: Re: Rotax 914 Fuel FLow
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com> Jim, I had problems getting fuel flow calibrated and determined that my return fuel flow transducer was not working properly so returned for a new one. I also had my EIS checked out by the factory. It does have to be set up by the manufacturer to utilize two transducers. Many applications only need one of course. I would first check to see that it is properly set up for two. Call the manufaturer and they can tell you. Good luck. Regards Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net> <europa-list@matronics.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 2:44 PM Subject: Europa-List: Rotax 914 Fuel FLow > > >


    Message 12


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    Time: 04:49:13 PM PST US
    From: SPurpura@aol.com
    Subject: Re: RE: Good news, bad news
    --> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com I hear the 914 gear box will last longer and it idles smoother if you idle about 2000rpm,my throttles will pull back to 1500 rpm whitch I use on short final to minimize the float but I bring the rpm's back up to 2000 rpm before leaving the runway. Sam N77EU




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