---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/10/06: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:08 AM - DOTH Friday (Bryan Allsop) 2. 06:56 AM - Tri-gear vs. mono (Fergus Kyle) 3. 07:14 AM - ...and another thing (Fergus Kyle) 4. 07:54 AM - Re: ...and another thing (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com) 5. 10:49 AM - Re: First flight (Rowland Carson) 6. 01:32 PM - Re: DOTH Friday (Kingsley Hurst) 7. 01:38 PM - Engine oil filters (Fergus Kyle) 8. 03:28 PM - Re: DOTH Friday (Bryan Allsop) 9. 04:34 PM - DOTH Friday (C Richardson) 10. 05:20 PM - Re: Engine oil filters (SPurpura@aol.com) 11. 05:43 PM - Re: DOTH Friday (Kingsley Hurst) 12. 07:08 PM - Re: Engine oil filter (rlborger) 13. 07:08 PM - MoS2 Spray (Paul McAllister) 14. 07:51 PM - Re: MoS2 Spray (Mike Baker) 15. 10:56 PM - Re: ...and another thing (Mike Parkin) 16. 11:01 PM - Was DOTH Friday Now off Topicbut very relevant.....Hurry Kingsley!!!! (R.C.Harrison) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:07 AM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Friday --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" I am bored with waiting for someone else to call a Doth now. So, = regardless of who else is, or is not going, I am taking Sadie out for a = ride to Shobdon on Friday. Usual mid-day arrival (Pilot freebie). The last Doth was a lovely day. It should be the same on Friday, though = you may have to dodge the odd shower later in the day. Regards. Bryan ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:16 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Tri-gear vs. mono --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Cheers, We're off topic here, except that the following tends to divide Europhiles when there is no need. Jim Thursby wrote an excellent rebuttal which elicitted little response. Nevertheless, I sense that silence promoted a false sense of condemnation of Ivan's precept and deserves further comment. There is no question that trigears are easier to land. Thirty-odd thousand hours convinces me that putting two (and often three) wheels on the ground is easier than flying after landing - what is needed on one wheel. The number of accidents occuring after landing a 3-wheeler shows that there is a sigh of relief after touchdown that belies the risks still in effect during the runout. That's a clue. Whereas the taildragger of any persuasion still requires concentration and due diligence until a speed is reached where nothing is flying, wing, tail or anything. This to me indicates the complete flyer - one who is in control from 'chocks out' to 'brakes on' - and sometimes after that. I can see the ab initio pilot hesitating to produce a taildragger with one main gear, and appreciate if he chooses three wheels particularly if he has a nice long paved flat surface on which to land. However, for the responsible aviator, there is a price to be paid. Appearing to advance to unprepared ground, or putting forth vitriol against other more complete flyers, or claiming false qualities for dangling doughnuts isn't possible. Just as some people carry hot coffee or smooge on the 'cell-phone' while enroute on the streets are steerers not drivers, those who rely on three wheels to help them through life are not qualified to disparage those who don't. Complete bafflement is not a quality - it is a condition. Ferg A064 mono 914 Garry wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" > > I remain completely baffled as to why so many Europa pilots have chosen > the > mono over the trigear when given a choice. There is absolutely zero > performance advantage to the mono, in rate of climb, in cruise speed, in > fuel burn, or whatever. The difference is that the mono is inheritantly > unstable in landing (and takeoff) configuration. Everyone (almost) else > in > the aircraft business, both large and small, has abandon the taildragger > design, and no one else is building mono wheel planes. For the life of me > I > cannot understand why Ivan thought he could be successful when the rest of > the world says it's an unstable design. The proof is in the results. > Europa mono's are ground looping, wheelbarrowing, bending props, running > off > the tarmac, and generally destroying themselves with regularity. Perhaps > that is a smart marketing strategy........to design a product that > requires > regular parts replacement and rebuilding, but as a pilot I'm not > impressed. > I do acknowledge that there are a few among our ranks who get a certain > thrill out of placing themselves in danger on every flight, and love the > challenge of taming a wild and unpredictable beast. It makes for good > chest > thumping and bragging rights at the local pub, but might I suggest that > you > take up the (American) sport of bull riding. It's probably safer and more > satisfying than trying to land a mono. I'm not trying to stir up the > ranks, > but simply trying to understand the motivation of choosing an unstable > design over a proper one. Both Europas are fabulous planes in the air, > but > one operates on the ground in a proper fashion while the other acts like a > drunk and wounded gooney bird. Let's hear some logical and unemotional > arguments in favor of the mono.> > Trigear pilot ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:42 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: ...and another thing --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Again, off topic. The following text demands reply: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" > >mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com> > "This is a guy who's flown hundreds of different aircraft, flown > for >the military, has 20,000 hours plus, and is a certified test pilot." > An instructor of mine once told me that to get a true feeling for > the >experience of a pilot, divide his total flying hours by the number of >pilot >seats multiplied by the number of engines the aircraft has. > For example, an airline pilot who has flown 20,000 hours in a big 4 > jet >would be 20000/(2*4) equals 2500. The rationale behind this is that if you >fly long haul, in 2 by 13 hour sectors you might get one landing and one >take-off. How many take-off and landings would you get in your Europa in >26 >hours of flying. If one notes the above, what connection is there between "hundreds of aircraft,....the military, ....test pilot" - and sitting in an airliner? First of all of if one plans to learn anything in the next 2500 hours, perhaps the target pilot already has this experience? 26 hours in Europas might mean 50 landings - one month's flying in some airlines. One assumes the writer has the public's opinion of airline drivers - we all know stewardesses fly, passengers fly, but pilots just sit there. The difference is, previous airline pilots have often come from more experience than a Europa will produce in its total existence - and that's just one aircraft........... It's easy to take a swipe. The silent majority are not swiping - or as the jokesters say, "laisser faire and let laisser faire". Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: ...and another thing From: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com --> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com Ferg, I think you are trying to stir things up on a slow day ! All I know is, that with the number of glider hours and landings I have, I should be a better pilot than I am. As for tri-gear V mono, with limited time in the left side of a tri-gear, and limited time in the right side of a mono, two things are very obvious: a) the tri-gear is a particularly pleasant aircraft to land b) my tri-gear is quite a bit slower than the mono, however I've still got to re-install the wheel pants and some of the fairings. see you soon I hope, Dave A061 do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:49:34 AM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: First flight --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson At 2006-05-09 13:39 -0700 Craig Ellison wrote: >the first flight of KitA205/N205CN took >place this evening Craig - congratulations and thanks for all the data posted. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson (retiring) Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info! | Europa 435 G-ROWI (750 hours building) PFA #16532 | e-mail website www.europaclub.org.uk ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:06 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Friday --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" >I am bored with waiting for someone else to call a Doth now. So, You should not feel like that Bryan, I would go with you but I have a slight problem or two, like an aircraft that does not fly yet and the tyranny of distance. Apart from that, I would be there. I envy you blokes flitting around all the time. Regards Kingsley Do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:59 PM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Engine oil filters --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Say, have I mentioned I'm a flyer, not a builder? I just tested a fuel manifold design for flow and got lots. I timed flow from pump1 and pump2 and both pumps. However some idjit (no names) used fuel from last fall and the Purolator PRO 805 units (with their POR 896 filter elements inside) are pluggers. SO I telephoned around for any replacement elements meantime, and got the Blank Stare routine from all the auto parts professors. Have I stumbled across an archeological dig? What are we folk doing to replace the above designated filters/ Please? Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:28:41 PM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Friday --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" Ah, Kingsley! What a shame! You must understand though, Having a smooth flying dream machine and nowhere to go is much worse than building one, and dreaming of going somewhere. Just think. We have to prepare flight plans, buy fuel, torment ourselves with weather, pacify our women, heave all sorts of things around airfields. Whilst you builders can just pop into you nice warm workshops, and tinker. We have to suffer with each free day, pining for those odd god given hours when the skies are fit to fly in.We can't open a door and communicate with our offspring any time we wish. Think yourself lucky man, and stop winging! Best regards. Bryan. PS I cant do smileys. do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kingsley Hurst" Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:29 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Friday > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > > >>I am bored with waiting for someone else to call a Doth now. So, > > You should not feel like that Bryan, I would go with you but I have a > slight problem or two, like an aircraft that does not fly yet and the > tyranny of distance. Apart from that, I would be there. I envy you > blokes flitting around all the time. > > Regards > Kingsley > > Do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:26 PM PST US From: "C Richardson" Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Friday --> Europa-List message posted by: "C Richardson" Bryan, I would join you at Shobden but I have just received a command from my = wife to transport her flying suit from home to Netheravon on Friday so = she can be photographed with the British Helicopter team. At least I will be only 40 mins each way compared to her 2 hours drive = from Gatwick to Netheravon and a further 2 hours back home. Oh the price of having to prepare food for her when she eventually = arrives home! (Friday evenings are bad on the roads to the West Country) Best regards to all on the list John GBXGG ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:59 PM PST US From: SPurpura@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Engine oil filters --> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com Try the Fram G12 from WalMart. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:11 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Friday --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" Bryan Allsop wrote: > We have to suffer with each free day, pining for those odd god given hours > when the skies are fit to fly in.We can't open a door and communicate with > our offspring any time we wish. > Think yourself lucky man, and stop winging! Blimey mate, think I'll just give up and go fishing, didn't realise flying was such a hassle . . . . . all that wasted effort on my part . . . . gee . . . . . PS Why would you want to do smileys when you have problems like that ? With a bit of luck. I might be able to join you fellows for a DOTH (without a plane though) next year when we come over. Cheers Kingsley Do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:54 PM PST US Cc: rlborger Subject: Europa-List: Re: Engine oil filter From: rlborger --> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger Ferg, I did a Google search on - purolator pro 896 - The first hit was Midway Auto Supply ( http:// www.midwayautosupply.com/ ). They have them for the sum of USD 7.99 each. Good building and great flying, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Working in - 24 Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 29 Main Gear, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. Preparing ROTAX 914 for installation. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 P.S. Perhaps I'll have time tomorrow evening to put my 2-bits into the mono-tri commentary. Needless to say, i'm pro monowheel. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:54 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Europa-List: MoS2 Spray --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi All, The Rotax Service instruction SI-914-003 recommends the use of MoS2 Spray for lubricating the waste gate. I did a Google search to try and find a source, but all I could turn up was bunches of links extolling the virtues of MoS2 Spray, but no clue on where I might buy it. Could anyone on the list suggest where I might purchase this stuff. Thanks, Paul ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:15 PM PST US From: Mike Baker Subject: Re: Europa-List: MoS2 Spray --> Europa-List message posted by: Mike Baker I Think What you want is "Mouse MilK" Spruce sells it. Here's the link http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/mousemilkoil.php Mike Baker --- Paul McAllister wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > > Hi All, > > The Rotax Service instruction SI-914-003 recommends > the use of MoS2 Spray > for lubricating the waste gate. > > I did a Google search to try and find a source, but > all I could turn up was > bunches of links extolling the virtues of MoS2 > Spray, but no clue on where I > might buy it. Could anyone on the list suggest > where I might purchase this > stuff. > > Thanks, Paul > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:42 PM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ...and another thing --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" > One assumes the writer has the public's opinion of airline drivers - we > all know > stewardesses fly, passengers fly, but pilots just sit there. Your assumption would be incorrect. The writers opinion comes from many years of military and commercial flying. This last month has only required 70 hrs flying - mainly being chased about at low level by exercising fighters trying shoot me (simulated) with every weapon you could imagine. I don't have anywhere near 30,000 hrs but I do have enough to have stopped counting. As a Training Captain I have flown with quite a few of these previously experienced pilots who as stick and throttle men could not 'fly their way out of a wet paper bag'. Some of my friends who were first class military pilots who have moved on to big commercial jets. They have become very professional operators in Commercial Air Transport but admit that their basic flying skills are not what they once were. This is hardly surprising when on many modern transport aircraft the first action when encountering an engine failure on take-off is to engage the autopilot. In many companies the required approach is a coupled ILS to minima - it is true that the handling pilot does get to fly the flare sometimes. My moderate experience enables me to do my job to an adequate standard but most people slow down with age - experience is valuable but I suspect that the time will come when it is not enough. The vision of myself sat in a corner dribbling on my carpet slippers is not a comforting thought. Does all this make me an expert with small bug-smashers - certainly not - irrespective of the landing gear configuration. I love my little Europa - I built it, warts and all. It is a pocket rocket when compared with the average spamcan. Is it demanding? - YES. Having been bit once with a ground loop while trying (overconfidently) to land in a strong crosswind I am very cautious. I confess to being mildly irritated with the attitude of some people when they criticise Ivan's original creation. The Europa is a sport aircraft and the monowheel can be sporty, but to me, that is what it is all about. For those who want a form of transport that is easy to operate then the tri-gear is for you. Or perhaps a spamcan is more suitable. I will probably regret rising to Fergus' missive but I'll get back in my box now. regards, Mike Parkin (Europa XS MONOWHEEL - G-JULZ) Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:51 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: Europa-List: Was DOTH Friday Now off Topicbut very relevant.....Hurry Kingsley!!!! --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Kingsley. Just to motivate your urgent attention to obtain a visa or whatever you need because the message below means there will soon be "no room at the inn" or by the time you get here the British Isles will have sunk!:- "BRITAIN is facing a wave of immigration from Eastern European 'benefit shoppers' because of a new Brussels directive. A report published yesterday warned that distant relatives of EU nationals working in the UK will now be able to come here and claim state handouts. The Open Europe think-tank predicted 15,000 people from Eastern Europe could be claiming jobseeker's allowance within three years. The report says Britain is an attractive destination because a family of four would earn more on benefit than they would working on the average wage in Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland or the Czech and Slovak Republics. The rules have been relaxed to allow EU immigrants to bring any member of their household to join them in Britain. At the moment only dependent relatives - typically a spouse or children - have the right to enter and live on welfare. The change is expected to lead to an increase in the 329,000 people from the new Eastern European member states who have already entered the UK to work. The directive, which came into force this week, also gives anyone who has been living in Britain for five years an automatic right to permanent residence - with full access to benefits. And it creates an automatic three-month right of residence for all EU citizens, even if they have no intention of finding a job here." ........................ Just to confirm that we are not only a Nation of Idiots but also the most generous race on the face of the earth ! Regards and serious appologies to the memebers of the list and those who are kind enough to be on my Special Distribution List who will get it twice....but I just can't contain myself anymore. Bob Harrison Do not archive.