Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:36 AM - Re: [ Ken Hill ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Paul McAllister)
2. 08:59 AM - 914 Fuel Flows (Erich Trombley)
3. 09:31 AM - Re: 914 Fuel Flows (Gilles Thesee)
4. 12:08 PM - Re: 914 Fuel Flows (Simon Smith)
5. 12:22 PM - colin noakes (Rowland Carson)
6. 01:50 PM - Any UK Demo Volunteers (Bryan Allsop)
7. 04:04 PM - Re: Fuel Flows (Kingsley Hurst)
8. 04:34 PM - Re: radiators, coolers and colors (DJGeldermann)
9. 05:42 PM - 914 and firewall (Fergus Kyle)
10. 10:23 PM - Re: 914 and firewall (Mike Parkin)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | [ Ken Hill ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
Garry,
I wish mine did that. I find 5.3 gph @ 28". Its a real pain because it
limits my range for legal IFR. I have messed with the carburettor needles
but I haven't made much improvment.
I suspect that the taper of the needle is wrong because at 24" the EGT's sit
around 1600, but at 28" they seem to run in the low 1400's. I'll have to
hook my laptop up to the EIS and record a bunch more temperatures at various
altitude & power settins one of these days and see what I can conclude.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Garry
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 6:23 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: [ Ken Hill ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
I must be either lucky, or I'm running too low a power setting. With 450
hours under my belt on my 914 tri, the average is 4.3 US GPH (mogas). I
usually cruise at 4900 RPM and 31" MP..............rarely less, and
sometimes 5000 RPM and 34" MP when I'm in a hurry to get someplace. I have
a Whirlwind CS prop.
Garry Stout
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul McAllister
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:17 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: [ Ken Hill ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
These flow flows are pretty similar to what I see on my 914 Mono. I
have a dual sensor fuel flow on my EIS and over the last 400 hours I have
found it pretty well "nuts on" for accuracy. - Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of KENNETH D HILL
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:23 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: [ Ken Hill ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
Hi Simon,
I wish they were. I recently put over 1000 miles on N214KS and the
fuel required to fill the tank agreed to within .1/.2 gallons of what the
gauge said I used. Plugs look normal.
Ken
Simon Smith <jodel@nildram.co.uk> wrote:
I think you figures might be a little suspect. The Rotax 914
Operators manual give Take off performance as 5800rpm, 39.9 inHG and 8.7 us
gph. Max continuous as 5500rpm, 35.4 inHG and 7.2 us gph. (ref pages 8-2 &
10-1)
Are you sure that your fuel flowe sensor is correctly calibrated?
Are these airspeeds IAS or TAS?
Simon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KENNETH D HILL
Sent: 05 June 2006 00:24
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: [ Ken Hill ] : New Email List Photo
Share Available!
Duncan,
I'm afraid this data will get rearranged but here it goes. This
test was done at 5500' at a max weight of 1450lbs. with very little
deviation from standard day temp. Airspeeds are within 1 kt. These
airspeeds appear to stay constant up to 12,500 (the highest I've observed)
1. 100kts, FF 3.8, RPM 4500, MF 25.
2. 116kts, FF 5.0, RPM 4800, MF 28
3. 129kts, FF 6.2, RPM 5000, MF 30
4. 134kts, FF 7.6, RPM 5250, MF 33
5. 140kts, FF 8.3, RPM 5500, MF 35
6 148kts, FF 10, RPM 5800, MF 40
I'd appreciate if others would post there data.
Ken
Duncan McFadyean <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Simon,
Can't say I agree with your assessment. The MP gage in the panel is ind
ependent of the airbox pressure/TCU. As part of the installation of a M
P (electronic not analog) you are required to calibrate the sensor. If
the sensor is off by any amount from the true MP that the engine is real
ly producing then you will be incorrect in you assumption of H.P. For e
xample if the pilot has not correctly calibrated the MP gage and it is r
eading 31" of MP, however, in reality the engine is producing 34" then t
hat would explain the excessive fuel flow for a given MP reading. Make
sense. Off course too rich of a mixture could also be the cause, howeve
r, with the Bing carbs this is unlikely. My fuel flows per indicated MP
are very close to the published figures in the Rotax manual. Just my t
wo cents.
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
Time: 11:12:29 AM PST US
From: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: 914 fuel flows
Surely, if the MP gauge is suspect the Airbox sensor/TCU would also have
to
be in error by the same amount? I initially queried the figures because
I
assumed (and we all know how dangerous that can be!) that the Rotax book
fuel flows ought to be accurate.
Simon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Erich
Trombley
Sent: 06 June 2006 18:07
Cc: kandshill2@sbcglobal.net
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Europa-List: 914 fuel flows
Ken,
Knowing your fuel system as I do, I concur the problem is not with the
fuel
flow sensor.
I would verify that your manifold pressure gage is properly calibrated.
This would explain the excessive fuel flow per inches of mercury.
I believe for each fuel flow you have listed the actual H.P. you are
producing is actually greater than that corresponding to the M.P.
listed.
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
<html><P>Simon,</P>
<P>Can't say I agree with your assessment. The MP gage in the pane
l is independent of the airbox pressure/TCU. As part of the instal
lation of a MP (electronic not analog) you are required to calibrate the
sensor. If the sensor is off by any amount from the true MP that
the engine is really producing then you will be incorrect in you assumpt
ion of H.P. For example if the pilot has not correctly calibrated
the MP gage and it is reading 31" of MP, however, in reality the engine
is producing 34" then that would explain the excessive fuel flow fo
r a given MP reading. Make sense. Off course too rich of a m
ixture could also be the cause, however, with the Bing carbs this is unl
ikely. My fuel flows per indicated MP are very close to the publis
hed figures in the Rotax manual. Just my two cents.</P>
<P>Erich Trombley<BR>N28ET Classic Mono 914</P>
<P>Time: 11:12:29 AM PST US<BR>From: "Simon Smith" <<A class=m1 onc
lick="top.checkNewBrowser('26?To=jodel@nildram.co.uk&count=114
9694143')" href="http://webmaila.juno.com/webmail/8?folder=Inbox&
;msgNum=00000O00&block=1&msgNature=all&msgStatus=all
&count=1149694132#"><FONT color=#0066cc>jodel@nildram.co.uk</FON
T></A>><BR>Subject: RE: Europa-List: 914 fuel flows<BR><BR>Surely, if
the MP gauge is suspect the Airbox sensor/TCU would also have <BR>to<BR
>be in error by the same amount? I initially queried the figures b
ecause <BR>I<BR>assumed (and we all know how dangerous that can be!) tha
t the Rotax book<BR>fuel flows ought to be accurate.<BR><BR>Simon<BR><BR
>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A class=m1 onclick="top.checkN
ewBrowser('26?To=owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com&count=11
49694143')" href="http://webmaila.juno.com/webmail/8?folder=Inbox&am
p;msgNum=00000O00&block=1&msgNature=all&msgStatus=al
l&count=1149694132#"><FONT color=#0066cc>owner-europa-list-serve
r@matronics.com</FONT></A><BR>[mailto:<A class=m1 onclick="top.check
NewBrowser('26?To=owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com&count=1
149694143')" href="http://webmaila.juno.com/webmail/8?folder=Inbox&a
mp;msgNum=00000O00&block=1&msgNature=all&msgStatus=a
ll&count=1149694132#"><FONT color=#0066cc>owner-europa-list-serv
er@matronics.com</FONT></A>] On Behalf Of Erich <BR>Trombley<BR>Sent: 06
June 2006 18:07<BR>Cc: <A class=m1 onclick="top.checkNewBrowser('26
?To=kandshill2@sbcglobal.net&count=1149694143')" href="http://
webmaila.juno.com/webmail/8?folder=Inbox&msgNum=00000O00&blo
ck=1&msgNature=all&msgStatus=all&count=1149694132#">
<FONT color=#0066cc>kandshill2@sbcglobal.net</FONT></A><BR>Subject: [N
orton AntiSpam] Europa-List: 914 fuel flows<BR><BR><BR>Ken,<BR><BR>Knowi
ng your fuel system as I do, I concur the problem is not with the <BR>fu
el<BR>flow sensor.<BR><BR>I would verify that your manifold pressure gag
e is properly calibrated.<BR>This would explain the excessive fuel flow
per inches of mercury.<BR><BR>I believe for each fuel flow you have list
ed the actual H.P. you are<BR>producing is actually greater than that co
rresponding to the M.P. <BR>listed. <BR><BR>Erich Trombley<BR>N28E
T Classic Mono 914<BR></P></html>
<font face="Times-New-Roman" size="2"><br><br>______________________
__________________________________________________<br>
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!<br>
Visit <a href="http://www.juno.com/value">http://www.juno.com/value</a
> to sign up today!<br></font>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 914 Fuel Flows |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Erich Trombley a crit :
>
> Simon,
>
> Can't say I agree with your assessment. The MP gage in the panel is
> independent of the airbox pressure/TCU. As part of the installation
> of a MP (electronic not analog) you are required to calibrate the
> sensor. If the sensor is off by any amount from the true MP that the
> engine is really producing then you will be incorrect in you
> assumption of H.P. For example if the pilot has not correctly
> calibrated the MP gage and it is reading 31" of MP, however, in
> reality the engine is producing 34" then that would explain the
> excessive fuel flow for a given MP reading. Make sense. Off course
> too rich of a mixture could also be the cause, however, with the Bing
> carbs this is unlikely. My fuel flows per indicated MP are very close
> to the published figures in the Rotax manual. Just my two cents.
>
Hi all,
You need to check the MP gauge and the tachometer.
We checked ours during the flight tests, and our UMA tachometer read
high by nearly 100 RPM at 5000 RPM. I mean, when it read 5000, the
electronic calibration tacho read only about 4900 RPM.
Now, suppose yours says 5000 while the engine is turning at 5100 ? If I
recall correctly, prop power varies with the cube of RPM...
FWIW,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi,
As I understand it, at full throttle, the TCU will control the wastegate
to
give 39.9in HG.
Rotax say that at 5800rpm and 39.9inHG the engine will burn 8.7us gph.
To burn more than 8.7gph the MP or the rpm must be higher or there is an
error in Rotax figures.
If the MP gauge is suspect, then for a gauge reading of 39.9inHG the
actual
MP must be higher (to give a higher FF) but this is unlikely if the
wastegate is being correctly controlled hence my comment thta the airbox
sensor/TCU must also be in error.
Of course, as others have pointed out, Rotax rpm gauges are notoriously
inaccurate so could this be the culprit?
Simon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Erich
Trombley
Sent: 07 June 2006 16:52
Subject: Europa-List: 914 Fuel Flows
Simon,
Can't say I agree with your assessment. The MP gage in the panel is
independent of the airbox pressure/TCU. As part of the installation of
a MP
(electronic not analog) you are required to calibrate the sensor. If
the
sensor is off by any amount from the true MP that the engine is really
producing then you will be incorrect in you assumption of H.P. For
example
if the pilot has not correctly calibrated the MP gage and it is reading
31"
of MP, however, in reality the engine is producing 34" then that would
explain the excessive fuel flow for a given MP reading. Make sense.
Off
course too rich of a mixture could also be the cause, however, with the
Bing
carbs this is unlikely. My fuel flows per indicated MP are very close
to
the published figures in the Rotax manual. Just my two cents.
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
Time: 11:12:29 AM PST US
From: "Simon Smith" <
<http://webmaila.juno.com/webmail/8?folder=Inbox&msgNum=00000O00&bloc
k=1&msg
Nature=all&msgStatus=all&count=1149694132#> jodel@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: 914 fuel flows
Surely, if the MP gauge is suspect the Airbox sensor/TCU would also have
to
be in error by the same amount? I initially queried the figures because
I
assumed (and we all know how dangerous that can be!) that the Rotax book
fuel flows ought to be accurate.
Simon
-----Original Message-----
From:
<http://webmaila.juno.com/webmail/8?folder=Inbox&msgNum=00000O00&bloc
k=1&msg
Nature=all&msgStatus=all&count=1149694132#>
owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:
<http://webmaila.juno.com/webmail/8?folder=Inbox&msgNum=00000O00&bloc
k=1&msg
Nature=all&msgStatus=all&count=1149694132#>
owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Erich
Trombley
Sent: 06 June 2006 18:07
Cc:
<http://webmaila.juno.com/webmail/8?folder=Inbox&msgNum=00000O00&bloc
k=1&msg
Nature=all&msgStatus=all&count=1149694132#>
kandshill2@sbcglobal.net
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Europa-List: 914 fuel flows
Ken,
Knowing your fuel system as I do, I concur the problem is not with the
fuel
flow sensor.
I would verify that your manifold pressure gage is properly calibrated.
This would explain the excessive fuel flow per inches of mercury.
I believe for each fuel flow you have listed the actual H.P. you are
producing is actually greater than that corresponding to the M.P.
listed.
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
Anyone know what's happened to Colin Noakes - well-known finisher &
painter of Europas? His copy of EF48 was returned marked "gone away".
Can anyone help us get in touch with him again, plaes?
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson (retiring) Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info!
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (750 hours building) PFA #16532
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website www.europaclub.org.uk
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Any UK Demo Volunteers |
Since the Today's Pilot article about my Mono XS, an enthusiastic
gentleman called Shorland Hosking is keen to acquire a Europa Mono. He
has asked me if it would be possible to have a ride in one before making
the final commitment. He is a lightweight 6 ft 4 ins. The factory have
told him that the XS can be made to fit him, but he would like to see
how it handles.
He lives in the Poole area, and can make time at any time convenient. I
am sure that someone in the Poole/Popham area would enjoy showing his
toy off to Shorland. Please contact him directly, and perhaps let me
know as well.
His Tel Number is 01 202 765716, e-mail shosking@doctors.org
Cheers, Bryan
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hello Paul,
You said:-
> I suspect that the taper of the needle is wrong because at 24" the
EGT's sit around 1600, but at 28" they seem to run in the low 1400's.
Funny you should say that because just the other day I discovered the
following. It may help to reinforce your suspicions.
<http://www.jabiru.net.au/news/technical/Carby%20tuning%20kitJSL002-1.pd
f>
http://www.jabiru.net.au/news/technical/Carby%20tuning%20kitJSL002-1.pdf
Regards
Kingsley
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: radiators, coolers and colors |
Thomas,
The one I have sitting around for when I get that far is from "Pace
Products," Part # 11654.
Dan
A-139
----- Original Message
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas Scherer
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 2:38 PM
Subject: Europa-List: radiators, coolers and colors
You might recall a question I raised several months ago in asking
whether painting the water radiators of a Europa in white would affect
their ability to cool. (black body radiation).
To close the case, I can now report that the color white does not
affect the cooling ability ~ it does make insects more visible though. I
figure, the flying-by air molecule does not have sufficient time to
check for color of the radiator (due to Europa speeds) when it expands
thus cooling our cylinder heads (this applies to Rotax-driven Europas).
I have successfully raised oil temperatures though by living in
Southern California and installing those Xtra high compression pistons
and will install a second oil cooler in sequence to the original cooler
and was wondering whether anybody in Europa Universe does have a cooler
oxydizing around in his workshop for a good new home ? Europa, the
company, does not only stock them any more - they do not even remember
where they originally got them from.
be well,
<Thomas, N81EU>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 914 and firewall |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Hello,
As above, I am trying to fit the cooling duct into the area
between the footwells.
(a) I fouled the centre area with mods to accomodate the Wilksch engine and
(b) I used Graham Singleton's firewall to compensate.
If you have employed (b) with the 914, could you confirm that
the ducting is not interfered with, as the instructions are not specific
regarding ducting vs. footwells as much as ducting vs. cowling (which is
months from ready to apply).
Please advise if you found the combination of the two, (b) and
914, compatible or at least manageable, as am loath to tackle the ducting if
it's not going to fit properly..
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
PS: Graham, if you're in there, this in no way impugns the design but does
complicate the conception for the moment..........
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 914 and firewall |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
> Please advise if you found the combination of the two, (b) and
> 914, compatible or at least manageable, as am loath to tackle the ducting
> if
> it's not going to fit properly..
Fergus,
I have Graham's firewall fitted with 914 in G-JULZ. I don't recall any
major dramas during fitting. The result is excellent. I think Graham'
firewall is a vast improvement on the original stainless steel one.
regards,
Mike
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|