Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:39 AM - Re: Caernarfon Sat 17 June (Paddy Clarke)
2. 05:58 AM - Re: Caernarfon Sat 17 June (David Joyce)
3. 09:20 AM - Pitch pushrod spacing washers (bond them) ()
4. 11:16 AM - Re: Zillions of e-mails about "Bonding on Tops" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (bdskelly2@aol.com)
5. 11:24 AM - Re: Zillions of e-mails about "Bonding on Tops" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Gilles Thesee)
6. 11:31 AM - Re: Maybe Changing the subgect will help!Bonding The Top Wing Panels (bdskelly2@aol.com)
7. 12:42 PM - Re: Maybe... [Correction to Nevs instructions!] Bonding The Top Wing Panels (bdskelly2@aol.com)
8. 12:57 PM - Re: Zillions of e-mails about "Bonding on Tops" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Tim Ward)
9. 04:39 PM - Re: Zillions of e-mails about "Bonding on Tops" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Caernarfon Sat 17 June |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paddy Clarke <paddyclarke@lineone.net>
Hi David,
Gerry and I hope to make it if you can fit us in (in G-KIMM). There
is also a Devon strut fly-in to Eggesford on that day. I like to
support them if I can, so we may well go there first,
Cheers, Paddy
ps - sorry Alan, perhaps some other time to North Weald.
Do Not Archive
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Caernarfon Sat 17 June |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Paddy, Great. Weather looks good. I will tell them you are coming so you
qualify for your 2 reduction! Regards, David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paddy Clarke" <paddyclarke@lineone.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Caernarfon Sat 17 June
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Paddy Clarke <paddyclarke@lineone.net>
>
> Hi David,
> Gerry and I hope to make it if you can fit us in (in G-KIMM). There
> is also a Devon strut fly-in to Eggesford on that day. I like to
> support them if I can, so we may well go there first,
> Cheers, Paddy
> ps - sorry Alan, perhaps some other time to North Weald.
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> How to prove you're an excellent doctor: Personal Excellence Tracker
> http://www.doctors.net.uk/pet
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Pitch pushrod spacing washers (bond them) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Trying to assemble the front or rear pitch pushrod (bolt through heims
with a spacing washer on each side of heims) with the top bonded on and
baggage bulkhead in place would be a bit of a hardship.
Last night we bonded the washers to the inside of the front and rear horn.
Would be easier to do so with CPM not bonded in place and the pitch horn
on the table.
Anyway, took a course thread 5/16 nut and sanded down 1 side nice and flat
with 320 grit, then 600 grit, then sticky back tape to hold on a piece of
80 grit sandpaper, then put nut between horn and hand threaded a fine
thread 5/16 bolt into it (it jams in ~ 1/2 a turn). Works great as a
finger spin sander, the sanding takes place towards the bolt (must pull
bolt), and only sands the area of contact of the washer.
Then waxed 2 5/16" bolts and assembled with washers, coated washers and
horn with redux, and held in place with a bull dog clip on each washer.
If CPM is bonded in place, have a few feet of 1/4" extensions and
universal handy to make life easier.
Ron Parigoris
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Zillions of e-mails about "Bonding on Tops" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Hi Tony:
I have tried everything I know.
1>Deleting my original account.
2>Attempting to contact Matt twice. No responce yet.
3>Scanned for viruses more than once with updated definitions.
I have absolutely NO idea why this is happening.
I am no longer receiving them since my old email address was terminated.
Are you still receiving them as of today?
I am so sorry guys. I do not know if it was something I did or if the problem is
on the other end.
I hate it as much as you do. Hopefully Matt can Kill the thread and then I can
get my old email address Back!
My Heart Felt apologies go to all.
Brian Skelly
<Europaxsa276>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au
Sent: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:44:08 +1000
Subject: Europa-List: Zillions of e-mails about "Bonding on Tops" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--> Europa-List message posted by: tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au
Brian,
You probably are getting a myriad of complaints, and I know it isn't your fault,
(important to clarify), but can you tell me if others are telling you that your
isp is bouncing zillions of copies of the e-mail below into my in box. Thank god
I have a mailwasher program, but I have a sneaking suspicion that, as I delete
them, more come down, or simply the in box at my isp is simply full of them. Any
help you can offer would be appreciated.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
> EuropaXSA276@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey Dean!
> How are ya? Was thinking about you a lot a few weeks ago. Took the
> whole
> family for 4 days of Disney. We rode your track a number of times. Hope
> you are
> doing great.
>
> Actually my problem right now is the aileron rubbing on the top of the
> aileron close out. Not the wing panel top. I was wondering if the
> sticks on top of
> the aileron would help spread the closeout itself so it would not rub.
> Any
> ideas? Photo attached.
> Or will the trimming of the top take care of this situation?
>
> So how's the bird?
>
>
>
>
> Brian Skelly
> Europa XS TriGear #A276
> North Texas USA
> You can see my build photos at:
> http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
________________________________________________________________________
Message 5
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|
Subject: | Re: Zillions of e-mails about "Bonding on Tops" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Brian,
>
> Are you still receiving them as of today?
No.
> .....
> I do not know if it was something I did or if the problem is on the
> other end.
Well, I seem to remember that Matt advised not to copy (cc) to Matronics
lists, until he has things sorted out.
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Maybe Changing the subgect will help!Bonding The Top |
Wing Panels
Hi Keith:
Nev got in touch with me on this hot topic. < Hot for more reasons than one>
While he had no idea how to fix my email problem he was gracious enough to offer
his suggestion on bonding the top.
He recommends that you do indeed use the vinyl flooring on both the flap an aileron
for proper gap.
In addition he added these hints.
Cut out the webbing on the wing between the flaps and ailerons leaving only a 1/4
inch ridge. This will allow easier lift and separation between the flaps /
aileron and the top.
Also he recommends a "dry run" installation of the top. Use packing tape for release
on the back of the top. Sand and redux the ribs. Install the top with the
weights and bars as described. After cure peal the top back up. This will fill
any gaps that you have on the edges and ribs and give a good flat surface
to bond on.
Sand the cured redux on the ribs and and file the drips off the edges and then
bond the top on permanently.
Brian Skelly
europaxsa276
>>> Question to any that have cut out the webbing. Did you leave it open after
the bonding was completed or perhaps make a cover and redux it in place. I'm
thinking of varmint entry here. That's going to make a rather large hole.
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Hickling <keithhickling@clear.net.nz>
Sent: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 18:39:18 +1200
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Question: Bonding The Top Wing Panels
Hi all,
In spite of the millions of emails I am interested in this too. I am also waiting
to bond on the top skin and wondered why only thin plastic is suggested under
the aileron closeout rather than spacers as under the flap closeout during
bonding ? Would spacers such as mixing sticks not reduce the need to sand the
closeout back later?
I might have missed some replies as my mailbox was full for 2 days.
Thanks,
Keith.
----- Original Message -----
From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 12:22 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Question: Bonding The Top Wing Panels
Hello Builders and Flyers!
I am in the process of bonding the wing tops on. The manual says to use tongue
depressors for spacers on the top of the flaps to give clearance. < Some of you
have used a strip of Vinyl flooring>
However for the Ailerons, only a thin strip of packing tape is used to "keep them
from bonding to the top skin". No spacers???
I have a problem that I have a slight rub with the ailerons on the top of the ailerons
close out. This rubbing area occurs on both ailerons towards the root
end. I did get the updated manual that says to use a 2" spacer when doing the
reinforcement lay-up. I sanded and did another lay-up and this helped considerably.
But there is still a slight rub.
Would attaching some tongue depressors on the top of the ailerons during the top
panel bonding fix this aliment?
Thanks in advance.
Brian Skelly
Europa XS TriGear #A276
North Texas USA
You can see my build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
________________________________________________________________________
Message 7
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|
Subject: | Re: Maybe... [Correction to Nevs instructions!] Bonding The |
Top Wing Panels
This is a correction from Nev on the instructions
-----Original Message-----
From: NevEyre@aol.com
Sent: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 3:19:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Subject: Re: Nev: One Last Question on the Top glue down
Hi Brian,
You are only cutting the part of the vertical web that is up against the aileron
closeout [ sort of half an Octogan shape], there will be no hole through into
the inside of the wing, leave the web that fairs the flap closeout into the
lower skin intact.
So if you are standing behind / under the wing, where the flap closeout is, looking
outboard, you will see the ''nose'' shape of the vertical flap web,which
runs aft to leave a sort of Octagonal ''C'' web that you can see the aileron
closeout through......
Does that make sense ? There will be no holes into the wing, only a clear view
to where the aileron drive bolt / pushrod will be later.
I posted a full description of this, I have no idea how to access that from the
Forum, it's in there somewhere ?
Cheers,
Nev.
-----Original Message-----
From: bdskelly2@aol.com
Sent: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:30:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Maybe Changing the subgect will help!Bonding The Top
Wing Panels
Hi Keith:
Nev got in touch with me on this hot topic. < Hot for more reasons than one>
While he had no idea how to fix my email problem he was gracious enough to offer
his suggestion on bonding the top.
He recommends that you do indeed use the vinyl flooring on both the flap an aileron
for proper gap.
In addition he added these hints.
Cut out the webbing on the wing between the flaps and ailerons leaving only a 1/4
inch ridge. This will allow easier lift and separation between the flaps /
aileron and the top.
Also he recommends a "dry run" installation of the top. Use packing tape for release
on the back of the top. Sand and redux the ribs. Install the top with the
weights and bars as described. After cure peal the top back up. This will fill
any gaps that you have on the edges and ribs and give a good flat surface
to bond on.
Sand the cured redux on the ribs and and file the drips off the edges and then
bond the top on permanently.
Brian Skelly
europaxsa276
>>> Question to any that have cut out the webbing. Did you leave it open after
the bonding was completed or perhaps make a cover and redux it in place. I'm
thinking of varmint entry here. That's going to make a rather large hole.
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Hickling <keithhickling@clear.net.nz>
Sent: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 18:39:18 +1200
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Question: Bonding The Top Wing Panels
Hi all,
In spite of the millions of emails I am interested in this too. I am also waiting
to bond on the top skin and wondered why only thin plastic is suggested under
the aileron closeout rather than spacers as under the flap closeout during
bonding ? Would spacers such as mixing sticks not reduce the need to sand the
closeout back later?
I might have missed some replies as my mailbox was full for 2 days.
Thanks,
Keith.
----- Original Message -----
From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 12:22 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Question: Bonding The Top Wing Panels
Hello Builders and Flyers!
I am in the process of bonding the wing tops on. The manual says to use tongue
depressors for spacers on the top of the flaps to give clearance. < Some of you
have used a strip of Vinyl flooring>
However for the Ailerons, only a thin strip of packing tape is used to "keep them
from bonding to the top skin". No spacers???
I have a problem that I have a slight rub with the ailerons on the top of the ailerons
close out. This rubbing area occurs on both ailerons towards the root
end. I did get the updated manual that says to use a 2" spacer when doing the
reinforcement lay-up. I sanded and did another lay-up and this helped considerably.
But there is still a slight rub.
Would attaching some tongue depressors on the top of the ailerons during the top
panel bonding fix this aliment?
Thanks in advance.
Brian Skelly
Europa XS TriGear #A276
North Texas USA
You can see my build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
________________________________________________________________________
Message 8
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|
Subject: | Re: Zillions of e-mails about "Bonding on Tops" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Brian,
I am no longer receiving them. Only got about 200 then all clear.
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
Ph +64 3 3515166
Mobile 021 0640221
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
----- Original Message -----
From: bdskelly2@aol.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Zillions of e-mails about "Bonding on Tops"
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Tony:
I have tried everything I know.
1>Deleting my original account.
2>Attempting to contact Matt twice. No responce yet.
3>Scanned for viruses more than once with updated definitions.
I have absolutely NO idea why this is happening.
I am no longer receiving them since my old email address was
terminated.
Are you still receiving them as of today?
I am so sorry guys. I do not know if it was something I did or if the
problem is on the other end.
I hate it as much as you do. Hopefully Matt can Kill the thread and
then I can get my old email address Back!
My Heart Felt apologies go to all.
Brian Skelly
<Europaxsa276>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:44:08 +1000
Subject: Europa-List: Zillions of e-mails about "Bonding on Tops"
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--> Europa-List message posted by: tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au
Brian,
You probably are getting a myriad of complaints, and I know it isn't
your fault,
(important to clarify), but can you tell me if others are telling you
that your
isp is bouncing zillions of copies of the e-mail below into my in box.
Thank god
I have a mailwasher program, but I have a sneaking suspicion that, as I
delete
them, more come down, or simply the in box at my isp is simply full of
them. Any
help you can offer would be appreciated.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
> EuropaXSA276@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hey Dean!
> How are ya? Was thinking about you a lot a few weeks ago. Took the
> whole
> family for 4 days of Disney. We rode your track a number of times.
Hope
> you are
> doing great.
>
> Actually my problem right now is the aileron rubbing on the top of the
> aileron close out. Not the wing panel top. I was wondering if the
> sticks on top of
> the aileron would help spread the closeout itself so it would not rub.
> Any
> ideas? Photo attached.
> Or will the trimming of the top take care of this situation?
>
> So how's the bird?
>
>
>
>
> Brian Skelly
> Europa XS TriGear #A276
> North Texas USA
> You can see my build photos at:
> http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message 9
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|
Subject: | Re: Zillions of e-mails about "Bonding on Tops" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Sorry guys, I've been a little out of commission the last few days with an eye
infection and haven't been able to check my email as regularly as normal. I'm
getting better and am back to checking email again.
I think it was Monday night that this little mail loop issue occurred. I fortunately
caught it pretty early and I think only around 136 copies of the message
made it to the List. Another 400 or so were subsequently diverted!
This problem is caused by a combination of two things. The details of exactly
what happens is in the archives somewhere, but I'll paraphrase. The problem starts
when someone Cc:'s the email list rather than putting it in the To: field.
In and of itself, this doesn't cause a problem. The problem occurs later
on some version of, I believe, a Microsoft Email Server. When the destination
email address isn't available for some reason - like mailbx full, or just doesn't
exist - the MSES sends a bounce email address back to the sender (in the
case of the Matronics Email Lists, this would be "owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
which is directed to me as the administrator of the list). No problem
so far, that how its all suppose to work. The problem is that the MSES also
then Cc's a copy back to the actual List because the list was Cc'd on the original!!
But this means that the MSES server gets another copy of the message,
which in turn, causes the MSES to eventually fire off yet another copy and
you've got a giant mail loop.
Anyway, I thought that I had put a stop to this little problem the last time it
happened with some tricky filtering code, but in looking at my patch I have discovered
that it didn't quite work (doh!). Can't really test it without pissing
everyone off... :-)
I think what I'm going to try is limiting posts to the list to only the To: field,
and bouncing posts back to the sender if they try to Cc: the List. This should
at least keep this particular problem from happening again. Actually, I
might try rewriting the contents of the Cc: field into the To: field, then I
won't have to bounce the message back. Anyway, I'm looking into it. Sorry for
all the hassle!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
At 12:55 PM 6/15/2006 Thursday, you wrote:
>Brian,
>I am no longer receiving them. Only got about 200 then all clear.
>Tim
>Tim Ward
>12 Waiwetu Street,
>Fendalton,
>Christchurch, 8052
>New Zealand
>
>Ph +64 3 3515166
>Mobile 021 0640221
><mailto:ward.t@xtra.co.nz>ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:bdskelly2@aol.com>bdskelly2@aol.com
>To: <mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>europa-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 6:12 AM
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Zillions of e-mails about "Bonding on Tops" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>Hi Tony:
>
>I have tried everything I know.
>
>1>Deleting my original account.
>2>Attempting to contact Matt twice. No responce yet.
>3>Scanned for viruses more than once with updated definitions.
>
>I have absolutely NO idea why this is happening.
>
>I am no longer receiving them since my old email address was terminated.
>
>Are you still receiving them as of today?
>
>I am so sorry guys. I do not know if it was something I did or if the problem
is on the other end.
>
>I hate it as much as you do. Hopefully Matt can Kill the thread and then I can
get my old email address Back!
>
>My Heart Felt apologies go to all.
>
>Brian Skelly
>
><Europaxsa276>
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:44:08 +1000
>Subject: Europa-List: Zillions of e-mails about "Bonding on Tops" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: <mailto:tonyrenshaw%40optusnet.com.au>tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au
>Brian,
>You probably are getting a myriad of complaints, and I know it isn't your fault,
>(important to clarify), but can you tell me if others are telling you that your
>isp is bouncing zillions of copies of the e-mail below into my in box. Thank god
>I have a mailwasher program, but I have a sneaking suspicion that, as I delete
>them, more come down, or simply the in box at my isp is simply full of them. Any
>help you can offer would be appreciated.
>Reg
>Tony Renshaw
>Sydney Australia
>
>
>> <mailto:EuropaXSA276%40aol.com>EuropaXSA276@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Hey Dean!
>> How are ya? Was thinking about you a lot a few weeks ago. Took the
>> whole
>> family for 4 days of Disney. We rode your track a number of times. Hope
>> you are
>> doing great.
>>
>> Actually my problem right now is the aileron rubbing on the top of the
>> aileron close out. Not the wing panel top. I was wondering if the
>> sticks on top of
>> the aileron would help spread the closeout itself so it would not rub.
>> Any
>> ideas? Photo attached.
>> Or will the trimming of the top take care of this situation?
>>
>> So how's the bird?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian Skelly
>> Europa XS TriGear #A276
>> North Texas USA
>> You can see my build photos at:
>> <http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS>http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----------
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
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