Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:28 AM - Re: Rougham Sunday (Bryan Allsop)
2. 02:06 AM - Re: Rougham Sunday (Paddy Clarke)
3. 02:32 AM - Re: Rougham Sunday (Richard Holder)
4. 06:46 AM - Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) (Gert Dalgaard)
5. 07:22 AM - Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) (ivor.phillips)
6. 07:59 AM - Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) (Kevin And Ann Klinefelter)
7. 10:09 AM - Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) (Mike Parkin)
8. 01:42 PM - Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) (David Watts)
9. 02:16 PM - Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) (Duncan McFadyean)
10. 05:34 PM - Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) (nigel charles)
11. 08:43 PM - Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) (Donald Ingram)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rougham Sunday |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" <bryan@blackballclub.com>
Where's Rougham?
Bryan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:06 PM
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Paddy Clarke <paddyclarke@lineone.net>
>
> Hi Folks,
> It's the Wings, Wheels & Steam Country Fair at Rougham this weekend.
> I seem to remember this as a good sociable event. The weather looks a
> bit better for Sunday, so if anyone is interested I hope to be there
> 12ish.
> Cheers, Paddy
>
>
> Paddy Clarke
>
> Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rougham Sunday |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paddy Clarke <paddyclarke@lineone.net>
Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Pad
On 23 Jun 2006, at 9:19, Bryan Allsop wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop"
> <bryan@blackballclub.com>
>
> Where's Rougham?
>
> Bryan
>
> ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:06 PM
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rougham Sunday |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
1 mile NE of Bury St Edmunds - Suffolk
Richard
G-OWWW
Bryan Allsop wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop"
> <bryan@blackballclub.com>
>
> Where's Rougham?
>
> Bryan
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) |
Hi
Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door?
Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans, and
my AC should be able to fly slow enough...... :-)))
Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..?
Regards Gert
#151
OY-GDS
Mono with 914
Message 5
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| Subject: | Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) |
Hi Gert
Europa have often removed a door and control stick for photographic
purposes, This was when K/W needed good aerial photo's, I believe you need
to keep speed below 100 kts,
There have been quite a few that have lost doors unintentionally ( shoot
bolts) so its shouldn't be a problem!! IMHO
Regards
Ivor Phillips
_____
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gert Dalgaard
Sent: 23 June 2006 14:42
Hi
Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door?
Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans, and my AC
should be able to fly slow enough...... :-)))
Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..?
Regards Gert
#151
OY-GDS <http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dalgaard/oygds.jpg>
Mono with 914
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter <kevann@verizon.net>
I remember hearing that the factory did some test flights without the
doors. Flew fine as I recall. Did you check the archives?
Kevin
Gert Dalgaard wrote:
> Hi
>
> Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door?
> Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans, and
> my AC should be able to fly slow enough...... :-)))
> Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..?
> Regards Gert
>
> #151
> OY-GDS <http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dalgaard/oygds.jpg>
> Mono with 914
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
Yes the factory did it quite often for airborne photography - saw it myself
on 2 occasions.
regards,
Mike
do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 3:53 PM
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter
> <kevann@verizon.net>
>
> I remember hearing that the factory did some test flights without the
> doors. Flew fine as I recall. Did you check the archives?
> Kevin
>
> Gert Dalgaard wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door?
>> Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans, and my
>> AC should be able to fly slow enough...... :-)))
>> Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..?
>> Regards Gert
>>
>> #151
>> OY-GDS <http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dalgaard/oygds.jpg> Mono with 914
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) |
Well I have done it and I have to say it was awful. Admitted it was an
appaling day with the weather, but the vibration through the airframe
was unreal. Sarah, my daughter was actually flying the aircraft whilst I
was doing the photos (a photo shoot of Pete Kember's kit 1000 for the
PFA magazine).
Stangely, when we came round for the second attempt at landing (because
all the sensations seemed completely wrong the first time), for some
unknown reason I put my hand up and held the edge of the door frame, at
about forehead level, and suddenly most of the vibrations went away.
That probably means that it was some sort of swirling set up through the
single open door. Maybe both doors off would be a better proposition.
But still, we got the photos in the can, and we know what we will not be
doing again.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY - Monowheel Classic - 912S/Airmaster - 1200 hours
Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door?
Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans, and
my AC should be able to fly slow enough...... :-)))
Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..?
Regards Gert
#151
OY-GDS
Mono with 914
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
I'd heard that it was quite scary; maybe that's why the 100 kt/mph
limitation.
Who'll try it out and report?
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 6:03 PM
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin"
> <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
>
> Yes the factory did it quite often for airborne photography - saw it
> myself on 2 occasions.
>
> regards,
>
> Mike
>
> do not archive.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 3:53 PM
>
>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter
>> <kevann@verizon.net>
>>
>> I remember hearing that the factory did some test flights without the
>> doors. Flew fine as I recall. Did you check the archives?
>> Kevin
>>
>> Gert Dalgaard wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door?
>>> Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans, and my
>>> AC should be able to fly slow enough...... :-)))
>>> Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..?
>>> Regards Gert
>>>
>>> #151
>>> OY-GDS <http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dalgaard/oygds.jpg> Mono with 914
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> http://wiki.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) |
In the case of the Europa the door apertures represent quite a large
surface area of that part of the fuselage. Although several pilots have
shown that the aircraft can be flown satisfactorily with one of the
doors removed, it bothers me that it without doubt reduces the
structural strength of the fuselage. As we know when building the
aircraft the rigidity of the fuselage greatly increases when the windows
are installed. Whilst flights have been carried out without incident I
would question the loads the fuselage could take with one or both of the
doors removed. Certainly with both doors removed there will be an
increased load on the narrow overhead panel between the doors. I had to
significantly reinforce the overhead panel when I cut a small overhead
vent because the overhead panel is considered a strength critical part
of the airframe. I would not be happy flying the Europa with one or both
of the doors removed without the necessary stress calculations proving
it not to be a problem. If the calculations have been done and prove
this not to be a problem please ignore all the above.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Watts
Sent: 23 June 2006 21:37
Well I have done it and I have to say it was awful. Admitted it was an
appaling day with the weather, but the vibration through the airframe
was unreal. Sarah, my daughter was actually flying the aircraft whilst I
was doing the photos (a photo shoot of Pete Kember's kit 1000 for the
PFA magazine).
Stangely, when we came round for the second attempt at landing (because
all the sensations seemed completely wrong the first time), for some
unknown reason I put my hand up and held the edge of the door frame, at
about forehead level, and suddenly most of the vibrations went away.
That probably means that it was some sort of swirling set up through the
single open door. Maybe both doors off would be a better proposition.
But still, we got the photos in the can, and we know what we will not be
doing again.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY - Monowheel Classic - 912S/Airmaster - 1200 hours
Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door?
Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans, and my
AC should be able to fly slow enough...... :-)))
Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..?
Regards Gert
#151
OY-GDS <http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dalgaard/oygds.jpg>
Mono with 914
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) |
Air blowing over a hole with a cavity, like a flutist blowing over the
hole in the flute, can set up vibrations. You may remember driving the
car with one window open, and sensing a low frequency vibration.
Vibrations, if they are allowed to resonate, can have amplitudes with
very large peaks, and can be structurally dangerous. I suspect that
when Dave held the edge of the door frame he dampened the vibrations.
Lord mounts on engine frames dampen potentially damaging resonant
frequencies coming from the engine.
Its possible that removing both doors might have eliminated the
vibration, just as, by analogy, opening several car windows eliminates
air flutter in the car. The doors per se do not lend much structural
strength to the airplane. They do prevent air from resonating with the
fuselage cavity, however.
Donald Ingram
A-204 monowheel XS
----- Original Message -----
From: nigel charles
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 7:29 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)
In the case of the Europa the door apertures represent quite a large
surface area of that part of the fuselage. Although several pilots have
shown that the aircraft can be flown satisfactorily with one of the
doors removed, it bothers me that it without doubt reduces the
structural strength of the fuselage. As we know when building the
aircraft the rigidity of the fuselage greatly increases when the windows
are installed. Whilst flights have been carried out without incident I
would question the loads the fuselage could take with one or both of the
doors removed. Certainly with both doors removed there will be an
increased load on the narrow overhead panel between the doors. I had to
significantly reinforce the overhead panel when I cut a small overhead
vent because the overhead panel is considered a strength critical part
of the airframe. I would not be happy flying the Europa with one or both
of the doors removed without the necessary stress calculations proving
it not to be a problem. If the calculations have been done and prove
this not to be a problem please ignore all the above.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Watts
Sent: 23 June 2006 21:37
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)
Well I have done it and I have to say it was awful. Admitted it was an
appaling day with the weather, but the vibration through the airframe
was unreal. Sarah, my daughter was actually flying the aircraft whilst I
was doing the photos (a photo shoot of Pete Kember's kit 1000 for the
PFA magazine).
Stangely, when we came round for the second attempt at landing
(because all the sensations seemed completely wrong the first time), for
some unknown reason I put my hand up and held the edge of the door
frame, at about forehead level, and suddenly most of the vibrations went
away. That probably means that it was some sort of swirling set up
through the single open door. Maybe both doors off would be a better
proposition.
But still, we got the photos in the can, and we know what we will not
be doing again.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY - Monowheel Classic - 912S/Airmaster - 1200 hours
Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door?
Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans,
and my AC should be able to fly slow enough...... :-)))
Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..?
Regards Gert
#151
OY-GDS
Mono with 914
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