Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:15 AM - Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) (Nigel Graham)
2. 01:54 AM - Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) (Duncan McFadyean)
3. 09:06 AM - Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
4. 09:25 AM - Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not (SteveD)
5. 12:27 PM - Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) (Nigel Graham)
6. 12:49 PM - Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
7. 02:56 PM - Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) (Tim Ward)
8. 06:33 PM - Update (astills)
Message 1
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Subject: | Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) |
Some years back I began work to develop a set of rear windows for the
Europa.
As part of the PFA submission, I worked with Barry Mellors (the man
responsible for the stress calculations of the original airframe) to
calculate the structural effect on the strength of the fuselage, of cutting
out significant amounts of the turtle deck.
To my astonishment, these calculations revealed that there was no
degradation in rigidity and even more surprising, Barry stated that the
entire turtle deck is "non structural" and that the aircraft could fly quite
happily without it - though I would not advocate trying this out!
The turbulent "roar" caused by even a small opening in a streamlined car
body or aircraft airframe can be quite alarming. You only need to play with
an electric sun-roof to see how small changes in position can create large
differences in turbulence.
If I was to consider using the Europa as a photo ship, I would remove both
doors to eliminate asymmetric forces and then experiment with spoilers along
the top rim of the windscreen - a trick used by many car manufactures to
eliminate sun-roof roar.
Nigel (the other one) Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of nigel charles
Sent: 24 June 2006 01:30
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)
In the case of the Europa the door apertures represent quite a large
surface area of that part of the fuselage. Although several pilots have
shown that the aircraft can be flown satisfactorily with one of the doors
removed, it bothers me that it without doubt reduces the structural strength
of the fuselage. As we know when building the aircraft the rigidity of the
fuselage greatly increases when the windows are installed. Whilst flights
have been carried out without incident I would question the loads the
fuselage could take with one or both of the doors removed. Certainly with
both doors removed there will be an increased load on the narrow overhead
panel between the doors. I had to significantly reinforce the overhead panel
when I cut a small overhead vent because the overhead panel is considered a
strength critical part of the airframe. I would not be happy flying the
Europa with one or both of the doors removed without the necessary stress
calculations proving it not to be a problem. If the calculations have been
done and prove this not to be a problem please ignore all the above.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Watts
Sent: 23 June 2006 21:37
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)
Well I have done it and I have to say it was awful. Admitted it was an
appaling day with the weather, but the vibration through the airframe was
unreal. Sarah, my daughter was actually flying the aircraft whilst I was
doing the photos (a photo shoot of Pete Kember's kit 1000 for the PFA
magazine).
Stangely, when we came round for the second attempt at landing (because
all the sensations seemed completely wrong the first time), for some unknown
reason I put my hand up and held the edge of the door frame, at about
forehead level, and suddenly most of the vibrations went away. That
probably means that it was some sort of swirling set up through the single
open door. Maybe both doors off would be a better proposition.
But still, we got the photos in the can, and we know what we will not be
doing again.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY - Monowheel Classic - 912S/Airmaster - 1200 hours
Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door?
Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans, and my
AC should be able to fly slow enough...... :-)))
Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..?
Regards Gert
#151
OY-GDS
Mono with 914
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) |
Nigel,
I think we can safely say that the doors are non-structural and have no
significant load bearing function, given that they are merely loosely
pinned to the main structure. In fact without the main structure to
hold them, the doors would be pretty useless.
Where they may be beneficial is in helping the main structure to
maintain its shape under certain loading conditions (eg in a crash),
thereby improving the toughness of that structure.
Aerodynamic considerations aside of course!
Duncan McF
----- Original Message -----
From: nigel charles
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 1:29 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)
In the case of the Europa the door apertures represent quite a large
surface area of that part of the fuselage. Although several pilots have
shown that the aircraft can be flown satisfactorily with one of the
doors removed, it bothers me that it without doubt reduces the
structural strength of the fuselage. As we know when building the
aircraft the rigidity of the fuselage greatly increases when the windows
are installed. Whilst flights have been carried out without incident I
would question the loads the fuselage could take with one or both of the
doors removed. Certainly with both doors removed there will be an
increased load on the narrow overhead panel between the doors. I had to
significantly reinforce the overhead panel when I cut a small overhead
vent because the overhead panel is considered a strength critical part
of the airframe. I would not be happy flying the Europa with one or both
of the doors removed without the necessary stress calculations proving
it not to be a problem. If the calculations have been done and prove
this not to be a problem please ignore all the above.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Watts
Sent: 23 June 2006 21:37
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)
Well I have done it and I have to say it was awful. Admitted it was an
appaling day with the weather, but the vibration through the airframe
was unreal. Sarah, my daughter was actually flying the aircraft whilst I
was doing the photos (a photo shoot of Pete Kember's kit 1000 for the
PFA magazine).
Stangely, when we came round for the second attempt at landing
(because all the sensations seemed completely wrong the first time), for
some unknown reason I put my hand up and held the edge of the door
frame, at about forehead level, and suddenly most of the vibrations went
away. That probably means that it was some sort of swirling set up
through the single open door. Maybe both doors off would be a better
proposition.
But still, we got the photos in the can, and we know what we will not
be doing again.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY - Monowheel Classic - 912S/Airmaster - 1200 hours
Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door?
Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans,
and my AC should be able to fly slow enough...... :-)))
Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..?
Regards Gert
#151
OY-GDS
Mono with 914
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) |
Hello Nigel < The other One>!
I trust all is well. Looking at my turtle deck, still suspended from the
garage ceiling, I am imagining what a snappy addition those side rear windows
would have made.
What happened to that project and why was it abandoned? Or was it?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Brian Skelly
Europa XS TriGear #A276
North Texas USA
You can see my build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
Message 4
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Subject: | RE: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
I was trying to search the archive, someone posted a link to a website (Jos I think)
that had a highly modified Europa. It had Large turtle deck windows and
a main panel / tunnel mold that looked like it was stolen from the batmobile.
The work looked of very high quality. Any still have the link?
Steved
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
Message 5
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Subject: | Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) |
Hi Brian,
I can hear half the Europa flyers in Southern England laughing their socks
of as I write this! (Hey, my shoulders are broad enough)
The project is not abandoned, but progress has dropped to the point that I
need some serious a** kicking to get me going again.
I'm working flat out to win the trophy for the "longest build" - the less I
do, the more successfull I become.
I started two other projects in the mean time. Luckily my wife finished them
for me, one is now 9, the other 11.
aware that pictures were circulating on the inter-web net thing, although I
do remember Jos moving around the workshop taking ......."holiday snaps" I
think he said.
Nigel (the other one)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
EuropaXSA276@aol.com
Sent: 24 June 2006 17:01
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...)
Hello Nigel < The other One>!
I trust all is well. Looking at my turtle deck, still suspended from the
garage ceiling, I am imagining what a snappy addition those side rear
windows would have made.
What happened to that project and why was it abandoned? Or was it?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Brian Skelly
Europa XS TriGear #A276
North Texas USA
You can see my build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) |
I would love to see those photos if anyone happens to have them on their hard
drive. A very interesting mod to be sure!
In addition, a few "holiday snaps" are always appreciated by those of us
that missed the party!
Cheers to all!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Brian Skelly
Europa XS TriGear #A276
North Texas USA
You can see my build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) |
Nigel,
I hold the only the Europa record for having 4 projects on the go while
building!!
I started in 1996 when a big box arrived on the lawn and my, then
girlfriend, asked me what it was!
Since then I proposed to her, yes, got married, had 3 children, built a
Europa, and we are still together. Never been done before!!
So there is still light at the end of the tunnel!!
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
Ph +64 3 3515166
Mobile 021 0640221
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel Graham
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 7:21 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...)
Hi Brian,
I can hear half the Europa flyers in Southern England laughing their
socks of as I write this! (Hey, my shoulders are broad enough)
The project is not abandoned, but progress has dropped to the point
that I need some serious a** kicking to get me going again.
I'm working flat out to win the trophy for the "longest build" - the
less I do, the more successfull I become.
I started two other projects in the mean time. Luckily my wife
finished them for me, one is now 9, the other 11.
From SteveD's description - it certainly sounds like mine, though I
was not aware that pictures were circulating on the inter-web net thing,
although I do remember Jos moving around the workshop taking
......."holiday snaps" I think he said.
Nigel (the other one)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
EuropaXSA276@aol.com
Sent: 24 June 2006 17:01
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...)
Hello Nigel < The other One>!
I trust all is well. Looking at my turtle deck, still suspended
from the garage ceiling, I am imagining what a snappy addition those
side rear windows would have made.
What happened to that project and why was it abandoned? Or was it?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Brian Skelly
Europa XS TriGear #A276
North Texas USA
You can see my build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "astills" <astills@cox.net>
Well, times are exciting and busy on N625AZ. Filled the fuel tanks for the
first time today and calibrated the sight gauge and competence gauge. Ran
the fuel through 3 times so far and will run through once more tomorrow. I
am amazed at how little crud was in the system, but have no illusion about
what is still there. I changed both of the fuel filters for a bigger "2
inch" filter and will feel quite a bunch safer having done so. I was lucky
and found no leaks, so my tightening of all the nuts and screws must have
done the job. I have a 3 page list of items to finish and am making progress
on the list. When it gets down to this time in the build it gets very
exciting and busy as I find things that need fixing and changing due to my
inexperience. Thanks goodness for my friend who is a master mechanic and is
working with me every weekend and "straightening" me out. 3 1/2 years into
the build and finally can see a light at the end of the tunnel.
Al Stills
N625AZ
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