Europa-List Digest Archive

Sat 06/24/06


Total Messages Posted: 8



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:15 AM - Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) (Nigel Graham)
     2. 01:54 AM - Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) (Duncan McFadyean)
     3. 09:06 AM - Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
     4. 09:25 AM - Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not (SteveD)
     5. 12:27 PM - Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) (Nigel Graham)
     6. 12:49 PM - Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
     7. 02:56 PM - Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) (Tim Ward)
     8. 06:33 PM - Update (astills)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:15:57 AM PST US
    From: "Nigel Graham" <nigel_graham@btclick.com>
    Subject: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)
    Some years back I began work to develop a set of rear windows for the Europa. As part of the PFA submission, I worked with Barry Mellors (the man responsible for the stress calculations of the original airframe) to calculate the structural effect on the strength of the fuselage, of cutting out significant amounts of the turtle deck. To my astonishment, these calculations revealed that there was no degradation in rigidity and even more surprising, Barry stated that the entire turtle deck is "non structural" and that the aircraft could fly quite happily without it - though I would not advocate trying this out! The turbulent "roar" caused by even a small opening in a streamlined car body or aircraft airframe can be quite alarming. You only need to play with an electric sun-roof to see how small changes in position can create large differences in turbulence. If I was to consider using the Europa as a photo ship, I would remove both doors to eliminate asymmetric forces and then experiment with spoilers along the top rim of the windscreen - a trick used by many car manufactures to eliminate sun-roof roar. Nigel (the other one) Graham -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of nigel charles Sent: 24 June 2006 01:30 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) In the case of the Europa the door apertures represent quite a large surface area of that part of the fuselage. Although several pilots have shown that the aircraft can be flown satisfactorily with one of the doors removed, it bothers me that it without doubt reduces the structural strength of the fuselage. As we know when building the aircraft the rigidity of the fuselage greatly increases when the windows are installed. Whilst flights have been carried out without incident I would question the loads the fuselage could take with one or both of the doors removed. Certainly with both doors removed there will be an increased load on the narrow overhead panel between the doors. I had to significantly reinforce the overhead panel when I cut a small overhead vent because the overhead panel is considered a strength critical part of the airframe. I would not be happy flying the Europa with one or both of the doors removed without the necessary stress calculations proving it not to be a problem. If the calculations have been done and prove this not to be a problem please ignore all the above. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Watts Sent: 23 June 2006 21:37 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) Well I have done it and I have to say it was awful. Admitted it was an appaling day with the weather, but the vibration through the airframe was unreal. Sarah, my daughter was actually flying the aircraft whilst I was doing the photos (a photo shoot of Pete Kember's kit 1000 for the PFA magazine). Stangely, when we came round for the second attempt at landing (because all the sensations seemed completely wrong the first time), for some unknown reason I put my hand up and held the edge of the door frame, at about forehead level, and suddenly most of the vibrations went away. That probably means that it was some sort of swirling set up through the single open door. Maybe both doors off would be a better proposition. But still, we got the photos in the can, and we know what we will not be doing again. Dave Watts G-BXDY - Monowheel Classic - 912S/Airmaster - 1200 hours Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door? Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans, and my AC should be able to fly slow enough...... :-))) Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..? Regards Gert #151 OY-GDS Mono with 914


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:54:45 AM PST US
    From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)
    Nigel, I think we can safely say that the doors are non-structural and have no significant load bearing function, given that they are merely loosely pinned to the main structure. In fact without the main structure to hold them, the doors would be pretty useless. Where they may be beneficial is in helping the main structure to maintain its shape under certain loading conditions (eg in a crash), thereby improving the toughness of that structure. Aerodynamic considerations aside of course! Duncan McF ----- Original Message ----- From: nigel charles To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 1:29 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) In the case of the Europa the door apertures represent quite a large surface area of that part of the fuselage. Although several pilots have shown that the aircraft can be flown satisfactorily with one of the doors removed, it bothers me that it without doubt reduces the structural strength of the fuselage. As we know when building the aircraft the rigidity of the fuselage greatly increases when the windows are installed. Whilst flights have been carried out without incident I would question the loads the fuselage could take with one or both of the doors removed. Certainly with both doors removed there will be an increased load on the narrow overhead panel between the doors. I had to significantly reinforce the overhead panel when I cut a small overhead vent because the overhead panel is considered a strength critical part of the airframe. I would not be happy flying the Europa with one or both of the doors removed without the necessary stress calculations proving it not to be a problem. If the calculations have been done and prove this not to be a problem please ignore all the above. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Watts Sent: 23 June 2006 21:37 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...) Well I have done it and I have to say it was awful. Admitted it was an appaling day with the weather, but the vibration through the airframe was unreal. Sarah, my daughter was actually flying the aircraft whilst I was doing the photos (a photo shoot of Pete Kember's kit 1000 for the PFA magazine). Stangely, when we came round for the second attempt at landing (because all the sensations seemed completely wrong the first time), for some unknown reason I put my hand up and held the edge of the door frame, at about forehead level, and suddenly most of the vibrations went away. That probably means that it was some sort of swirling set up through the single open door. Maybe both doors off would be a better proposition. But still, we got the photos in the can, and we know what we will not be doing again. Dave Watts G-BXDY - Monowheel Classic - 912S/Airmaster - 1200 hours Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door? Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans, and my AC should be able to fly slow enough...... :-))) Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..? Regards Gert #151 OY-GDS Mono with 914


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:06:29 AM PST US
    From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...)
    Hello Nigel < The other One>! I trust all is well. Looking at my turtle deck, still suspended from the garage ceiling, I am imagining what a snappy addition those side rear windows would have made. What happened to that project and why was it abandoned? Or was it? DO NOT ARCHIVE Brian Skelly Europa XS TriGear #A276 North Texas USA You can see my build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:25:54 AM PST US
    From: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
    Subject: RE: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net> I was trying to search the archive, someone posted a link to a website (Jos I think) that had a highly modified Europa. It had Large turtle deck windows and a main panel / tunnel mold that looked like it was stolen from the batmobile. The work looked of very high quality. Any still have the link? Steved ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/


    Message 5


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    Time: 12:27:09 PM PST US
    From: "Nigel Graham" <nigel_graham@btclick.com>
    Subject: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...)
    Hi Brian, I can hear half the Europa flyers in Southern England laughing their socks of as I write this! (Hey, my shoulders are broad enough) The project is not abandoned, but progress has dropped to the point that I need some serious a** kicking to get me going again. I'm working flat out to win the trophy for the "longest build" - the less I do, the more successfull I become. I started two other projects in the mean time. Luckily my wife finished them for me, one is now 9, the other 11. aware that pictures were circulating on the inter-web net thing, although I do remember Jos moving around the workshop taking ......."holiday snaps" I think he said. Nigel (the other one) -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of EuropaXSA276@aol.com Sent: 24 June 2006 17:01 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) Hello Nigel < The other One>! I trust all is well. Looking at my turtle deck, still suspended from the garage ceiling, I am imagining what a snappy addition those side rear windows would have made. What happened to that project and why was it abandoned? Or was it? DO NOT ARCHIVE Brian Skelly Europa XS TriGear #A276 North Texas USA You can see my build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS


    Message 6


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    Time: 12:49:31 PM PST US
    From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...)
    I would love to see those photos if anyone happens to have them on their hard drive. A very interesting mod to be sure! In addition, a few "holiday snaps" are always appreciated by those of us that missed the party! Cheers to all! DO NOT ARCHIVE Brian Skelly Europa XS TriGear #A276 North Texas USA You can see my build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS


    Message 7


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    Time: 02:56:34 PM PST US
    From: "Tim Ward" <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
    Subject: Re: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...)
    Nigel, I hold the only the Europa record for having 4 projects on the go while building!! I started in 1996 when a big box arrived on the lawn and my, then girlfriend, asked me what it was! Since then I proposed to her, yes, got married, had 3 children, built a Europa, and we are still together. Never been done before!! So there is still light at the end of the tunnel!! Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand Ph +64 3 3515166 Mobile 021 0640221 ward.t@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: Nigel Graham To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 7:21 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) Hi Brian, I can hear half the Europa flyers in Southern England laughing their socks of as I write this! (Hey, my shoulders are broad enough) The project is not abandoned, but progress has dropped to the point that I need some serious a** kicking to get me going again. I'm working flat out to win the trophy for the "longest build" - the less I do, the more successfull I become. I started two other projects in the mean time. Luckily my wife finished them for me, one is now 9, the other 11. From SteveD's description - it certainly sounds like mine, though I was not aware that pictures were circulating on the inter-web net thing, although I do remember Jos moving around the workshop taking ......."holiday snaps" I think he said. Nigel (the other one) -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of EuropaXSA276@aol.com Sent: 24 June 2006 17:01 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Windows? WAS ( - not "The Doors"...) Hello Nigel < The other One>! I trust all is well. Looking at my turtle deck, still suspended from the garage ceiling, I am imagining what a snappy addition those side rear windows would have made. What happened to that project and why was it abandoned? Or was it? DO NOT ARCHIVE Brian Skelly Europa XS TriGear #A276 North Texas USA You can see my build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:33:12 PM PST US
    From: "astills" <astills@cox.net>
    Subject: Update
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "astills" <astills@cox.net> Well, times are exciting and busy on N625AZ. Filled the fuel tanks for the first time today and calibrated the sight gauge and competence gauge. Ran the fuel through 3 times so far and will run through once more tomorrow. I am amazed at how little crud was in the system, but have no illusion about what is still there. I changed both of the fuel filters for a bigger "2 inch" filter and will feel quite a bunch safer having done so. I was lucky and found no leaks, so my tightening of all the nuts and screws must have done the job. I have a 3 page list of items to finish and am making progress on the list. When it gets down to this time in the build it gets very exciting and busy as I find things that need fixing and changing due to my inexperience. Thanks goodness for my friend who is a master mechanic and is working with me every weekend and "straightening" me out. 3 1/2 years into the build and finally can see a light at the end of the tunnel. Al Stills N625AZ




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