Today's Message Index:
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1. 07:33 AM - Usable Fuel (astills)
2. 07:48 AM - Re: Usable Fuel (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
3. 08:00 AM - Re: Usable Fuel (Cliff Shaw)
4. 08:29 AM - Re: Usable Fuel (astills)
5. 08:40 AM - Re: Usable Fuel (Rman)
6. 08:41 AM - Re: Usable Fuel (Rman)
7. 10:06 AM - Re: Usable Fuel (with 914) ()
8. 01:32 PM - panel (Paul Stewart)
9. 04:29 PM - Free Calls to 5 European Countries (Steve Crimm)
10. 05:39 PM - Re: Usable Fuel (with 914) (Cliff Shaw)
11. 09:23 PM - Re: panel (nigel charles)
12. 10:29 PM - Re: Usable Fuel (RoddyEuropa@aol.com)
13. 11:01 PM - T-Bar questions? ()
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "astills" <astills@cox.net>
For those of you already flying I have a question. I always thought there
were 2 gals of fuel unusable in the bottom of the tanks. In filling and
draining the tanks I still have to fill with 18 gals. Does the reserve side
"empty" the bottom of both
sides of the tank?
Al Stills
N625AZ
Message 2
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Good Morning Al,
I'm not flying yet....still in the build phase......but when I hooked up my
fuel plumbing....I did notice that you could drain the entire tank but you
would have to first drain one side then the other. The hump in the muddle of the
fuel tank gives you the separation from main and reserve side. You should
have about 2 gal. in the reserve side, but that can be effected by flying in
turbulence due to the sloshing moving some fuel back over to the main side
after you switch. So if you ever got into a position where you switched to your
reserve and then used all of it, you might find a little more fuel by
switching back to the main side.
So, unlike a motorcycle that places a reserve pickup at a lower level in the
tank, the Europa has a tank like a saddle bag with a takeoff at the bottom
of both sides.
I hope this helps.
Mike Duane A207A
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Sensenich R64Z N
Ground Adjustable Prop
Message 3
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Al
I made the same test you are doing. I think I remember that there was
less that 1/2 remaining in each side. I figure 18 US gal. of usable
fuel. When I plumed my fuel system, I switched the reserve to the port
side and figure it for 2.5 gal.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
----- Original Message -----
From: astills
To: Europa-List@Matronics. Com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 7:25 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Usable Fuel
--> Europa-List message posted by: "astills" <astills@cox.net>
For those of you already flying I have a question. I always thought
there
were 2 gals of fuel unusable in the bottom of the tanks. In filling
and
draining the tanks I still have to fill with 18 gals. Does the reserve
side
"empty" the bottom of both
sides of the tank?
Al Stills
N625AZ
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Message 4
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Thanks for all the answers. Cliff I also found about 2 1/2 gals in reserve
when pumping it out. For some reason I thought there were 2 gal's unsuable
but I guess not. Fuel level bears watching closely. Don't want to run out
thinking there is more there. So I guess we have 18 gal's usuable but would
not want to run that low.
A l Stills
N625AZ
Message 5
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Very simillar to my tests. When filling the tank for the first time, I
carefully leveled the A/C and measured the amount of fuel it took to
fill the reserve side. It came to 2.6 US gal. I actually watched the
fuel cross the "hump" and stopped adding fuel when it did. To answer
the question, assuming the proper plumbing of the fuel selector valve,
one can only drain one side of the tank (approx 15.5 US gal.), then
switch to the other side to drain the remaining gas.
Jeff - Baby Blue
193 hours
Cliff Shaw wrote:
> Al
>
> I made the same test you are doing. I think I remember that there was
> less that 1/2 remaining in each side. I figure 18 US gal. of usable
> fuel. When I plumed my fuel system, I switched the reserve to the port
> side and figure it for 2.5 gal.
>
> Cliff Shaw
> 1041 Euclid ave.
> Edmonds, WA 98020
> 425 776 5555
> http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: astills <mailto:astills@cox.net>
> To: Europa-List@Matronics. Com <mailto:Europa-List@Matronics.%20Com>
> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 7:25 AM
> Subject: Europa-List: Usable Fuel
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "astills" <astills@cox.net
> <mailto:astills@cox.net>>
>
> For those of you already flying I have a question. I always
> thought there
> were 2 gals of fuel unusable in the bottom of the tanks. In
> filling and
> draining the tanks I still have to fill with 18 gals. Does the
> reserve side
> "empty" the bottom of both
> sides of the tank?
> Al
> =================================================http://www.matron===============================================
> bsp; Email List ;
> ==================================================nbsp;
> generous bsp;
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=========================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Al, that's correct. 18 gal. usable, with 2.5 of that as a reserve.
I've never taken on over 14.5 gals, when landing for fuel...
Jeff - baby Blue
193 hours
astills wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for all the answers. Cliff I also found about 2 1/2 gals in
> reserve when pumping it out. For some reason I thought there were
> 2 gal's unsuable but I guess not. Fuel level bears watching
> closely. Don't want to run out thinking there is more there. So I
> guess we have 18 gal's usuable but would not want to run that low.
> A l Stills
> N625AZ
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Usable Fuel (with 914) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
In order consume all usable fuel, can a 914 fuel pump self prime dry with
a 9 inch suction head pulling through ~ 1.5 meters of dry 8mm fuel line?
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Have a question on usable fuel with a 914. Lets take worst case, where you
run main tank dry (port) and switched to reserve (starboard) (flying in
turbulence / being rolled).
After a while, perhaps you run reserve 1/2 down, you choose to see if you
can scavenge some precious fuel that flopped over to the main tank and run
it dry. My return line goes to reserve.
My question has to do with dry suction head ability of the Pierburg fuel
pump, (or pumps) to self prime in such a scenario.
Because I am foolish enough to be using 2 Andair 375 Gasculators that will
be located just aft of the trail edge of the wing (fair easy access), when
fuse is level, that puts the in side hose to the gasculators at ~ 225mm
above fuel level in my scenario. My fuel pumps will be at or slight below
out of gasculators. Raising the nose will reduce dry suction head height.
Anyone do dry suction head self prime testing?
Pierburg states 500mm max suction head, but with wet input.
Rotax states 250mm max suction head but does not say wet or dry.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
Almost embarrassed to display such ingnorance - we have made our sub-
panels from 3mm 6002T6 ally. The right hand panel has alti, ASI,
microair radio and transponder, prop controller (plus a few other
bits) hanging off it. Do they need supporting behind the panel. if
so what sort of stuff have folk used?
Thanks in anticipation as ususal
Paul
G-GIDY
Message 9
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| Subject: | Free Calls to 5 European Countries |
Hello all
While this mainly applies to the those of us on the west side of the pond,
it was very nice this morning knowing that my call to the factory from here
in Atlanta this morning was free. I have VOIP (internet phone calls) from
Vonage www.vonage.com. BTW this is not an add, well maybe a little because
if you use my email address or not as a referral I will get a free month of
phone service, but either way this is an easy way to work with the factory
or the many builders in England. So if your interested, you can get
unlimited phone calls in the US, Canada, England, Ireland Spain, Italy, and
France. What a better way for Europa builders to stay in touch, that is
next to our list of course. I have been using it for almost two years and
it works well.
Steve Crimm
N42AH
A058
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Usable Fuel (with 914) |
NO
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
----- Original Message -----
From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Usable Fuel (with 914)
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
In order consume all usable fuel, can a 914 fuel pump self prime dry
with
a 9 inch suction head pulling through ~ 1.5 meters of dry 8mm fuel
line?
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Have a question on usable fuel with a 914. Lets take worst case, where
you
run main tank dry (port) and switched to reserve (starboard) (flying
in
turbulence / being rolled).
After a while, perhaps you run reserve 1/2 down, you choose to see if
you
can scavenge some precious fuel that flopped over to the main tank and
run
it dry. My return line goes to reserve.
My question has to do with dry suction head ability of the Pierburg
fuel
pump, (or pumps) to self prime in such a scenario.
Because I am foolish enough to be using 2 Andair 375 Gasculators that
will
be located just aft of the trail edge of the wing (fair easy access),
when
fuse is level, that puts the in side hose to the gasculators at ~
225mm
above fuel level in my scenario. My fuel pumps will be at or slight
below
out of gasculators. Raising the nose will reduce dry suction head
height.
Anyone do dry suction head self prime testing?
Pierburg states 500mm max suction head, but with wet input.
Rotax states 250mm max suction head but does not say wet or dry.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
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Message 11
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk>
Your panels sound a little different to mine in that my left panel has
all the flight instruments and the right all the avionics. The only
flight instruments which were heavy enough to need extra support were
the electric artificial horizon and DI. For these I made a small
aluminium bracket support mounted to the base of the main panel with a
foam layer on top. As these 2 instruments were one above the other I
transferred this support by jamming a pad of foam in between them. For
the right panel I used the racks supplied by each of the avionics
manufacturers. They were arranged as a vertical stack with the correct
spacing to give a minimum clearance between boxes. Two side plates were
riveted on to make all the racks one box structure. An aperture in the
main panel was cut to suite and the completed rack was bolted to the GRP
panel. I found the neatest way to do this was to fill the uneven gaps
between the rack and the main panel with Redux filler, drill both the
rack and the filler with the rack in position for perfect line up and
then fix inserts in to the filler so that the rack could be directly
bolted to the main panel. Be sure to cover the appropriate parts of the
rack with insulating tape when applying the filler so that it can be
removed easily after it sets.
Although this does not directly answer your specific question I thought
it might be helpful to others. From what you indicate it is likely that
the avionics items are the only ones deep enough to need support behind
the panel. Although they may not be very heavy the effects of 'g'
loading and vibration should be considered so a support shelf mounted to
the inside of the main panel might be a sensible solution.
I hope this helps.
Nigel Charles
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Stewart
Sent: 26 June 2006 21:28
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart
<europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
Almost embarrassed to display such ingnorance - we have made our sub-
panels from 3mm 6002T6 ally. The right hand panel has alti, ASI,
microair radio and transponder, prop controller (plus a few other
bits) hanging off it. Do they need supporting behind the panel. if
so what sort of stuff have folk used?
Thanks in anticipation as ususal
Paul
G-GIDY
Message 12
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Something to be aware of is that you could get fuel starvation when you
change attitute from level to climb if there is not much fuel in whatever side
of
the tank you are drawing fuel from. This is because the tank is square shaped
at the bottom, and the fuel outlet is at the front.
So take the following scenario: you are landing with an almost empty main
'tank', but a couple of gallons in the reserve. All is fine because your
approach attitude is level or slightly nose down. Then you have to go around -
nose
up, the fuel goes to the back of the tank, and the engine gets starved of
fuel just when you needed it most!
Because of this, if I'm close to having to change to reserve when getting
close to landing, I change to the reserve tank a few minutes before landing.
Roddy Kesterton
#220
Message 13
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| Subject: | T-Bar questions? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Have a few T-Bar questions (drive tube for antiservo tabs):
1) How much clearance between T-Bar and drive horns (side to side) you
leave?
2) Has anyone installed some sort of tension-er to prevent vibration of
this side to side clearance? (perhaps a 3/4 pound #10 round nose plunger)
3) When making the stabilators work, in either positive or negative angle
of attack, is the aerodynamic force pulling the tips of the stabilators
forward? (like the tips of wings are pulled forward)
4) Has anyone bent or broken the antiservo drive pin/horn by perhaps a
bird strike, someone pushing on the stabilator backwards, perhaps because
there was not enough side to side clearance?
5) Anyone have any critters crawl into their plane through the T-Bar slot
in the fuse?
6) Anyone use anti critter covers for this slot? Or?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
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