---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/17/06: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:40 AM - Re: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X (Paul Stewart) 2. 02:01 AM - Re: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X (BEBERRY@aol.com) 3. 02:08 AM - Re: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X (Gilles Thesee) 4. 02:19 AM - Re: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X (BEBERRY@aol.com) 5. 02:25 AM - Re: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X (nigel charles) 6. 02:33 AM - Re: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X (Gilles Thesee) 7. 03:30 AM - Re: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X (Richard Iddon) 8. 04:52 AM - Re: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X (BEBERRY@aol.com) 9. 05:28 AM - Re: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X (Michael Grass) 10. 05:33 AM - Re: Oshkosh (Jim Butcher) 11. 05:35 AM - Re: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X (Richard Iddon) 12. 05:46 AM - Auto pilot (A.Chabert) 13. 06:20 AM - Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X (europa flugzeug fabrik) 14. 08:50 AM - Re: Auto pilot (peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk) 15. 08:56 AM - Rectifier-Regulator 91X (Richard Holder) 16. 09:26 AM - PPG to prime fiberglass? () 17. 09:26 AM - Re: OSH (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu) 18. 09:28 AM - Replacing Ducati regulator on Rotax 914 (ivor.phillips) 19. 09:31 AM - PPG DCC as top coat? () 20. 09:34 AM - Re Tefzel and Teflon wire (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu) 21. 10:50 AM - Re: PPG DCC as top coat? (Paul Stewart) 22. 11:08 AM - Re: knocking on heaven's door (Thomas Scherer) 23. 12:04 PM - Re: Re Tefzel and Teflon wire (Steven Pitt) 24. 02:45 PM - Re: PPG to prime fiberglass? (europa flugzeug fabrik) 25. 02:56 PM - Re: PPG DCC as top coat? (europa flugzeug fabrik) 26. 03:34 PM - Re: Re: PPG DCC as top coat? (Paul Stewart) 27. 05:59 PM - Re: PPG DCC as top coat? (SPurpura@aol.com) 28. 07:08 PM - Re: PPG to prime fiberglass? (Steve Hagar) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:55 AM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart Where do folk mount the RR to maximise cooling? Paul G-GIDY ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:01:10 AM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X My RR is on the firewall inside the box which surrounds the Turbo Control unit (914),. This box has a 2" cooling pipe leading to it. I am not sure that this position is ideal and it is certainly horribly inconvenient for access and maintenance. A ny better suggestions would be welcome. Patrick ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:08:17 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee BEBERRY@aol.com a crit : > My RR is on the firewall inside the box which surrounds the Turbo > Control unit (914),. This box has a 2" cooling pipe leading to it. > > I am not sure that this position is ideal and it is certainly horribly > inconvenient for access and maintenance. A ny better suggestions > would be welcome. > > Patrick Hi Patrick, Our units are on the cabin side of the firewall for cooler environment. No overheating problem. To date no maintenance, except for monitoring the temperature sticker on the regulator. Why did you put them in a box ? Regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:27 AM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X Gilles I bought the aeroplane nearly built (owner and builder had a brain tumour) so had no control over some aspects but could make alterations if you think inside firewall would be better. (this is not a Eurpoa recommendation) Patrick ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:40 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" I have mine on the port footwell near the 'gills'. It also benefits from the outlet of a ram air cooling tube. Although the engine compartment is always hotter than the cockpit I decided that the extra connections and complexity through firewall were best avoided. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Stewart Sent: 17 July 2006 09:37 --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart Where do folk mount the RR to maximise cooling? Paul G-GIDY ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:40 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee BEBERRY@aol.com a crit : > Gilles I bought the aeroplane nearly built (owner and builder had a > brain tumour) so had no control over some aspects but could make > alterations if you think inside firewall would be better. (this is not > a Eurpoa recommendation) > > Patrick Patrick, Understand. To make things clearer, I would like to point out that our project is not a Europa, but an MCR 4S. Nevertheless the engine is a 914. Concerning Europa electrical recommendations, I don't know why they elected to install the delicate turbo control unit on the engine side, contrary to the Rotax recommendations. For your peace of mind, all 914 MCRs have the TCU on the cabin side, and all of them ( about 300 flying) have the regulator in the cabin. Regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:44 AM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X Mine is on top of the footwell, port side, just inside where the 'gill slots' are. Richard Iddon G-RIXS -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BEBERRY@aol.com Sent: 17 July 2006 09:59 My RR is on the firewall inside the box which surrounds the Turbo Control unit (914),. This box has a 2" cooling pipe leading to it. I am not sure that this position is ideal and it is certainly horribly inconvenient for access and maintenance. A ny better suggestions would be welcome. Patrick ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:19 AM PST US From: BEBERRY@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X Siting of Regulator. Richard - that sounds much better. Does it need anything other than the natural cooling via the gills? Patrick ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:28:25 AM PST US From: "Michael Grass" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X --> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" Bob, "Nicht zulaessig" translates into "not allowed" (by the manufacturer). The reason therefore is that the Germans (Europeans) hear all about the liability law cases in the USA. Try to buy the Europa flap drive actuator from the original manufacturer (which is manufacturing lifting actuators for furniture!!) direct and mention "for aircraft use" and he will not sell it to you. If you will explain Mr. Schicke that this regulator is for your ultra powered mini lawn tractor for drag racing purpose or something else like that and give it in writing to him, I am sure he will sell the regulator to you without problems. Regards Michael Grass A266 Trigear, Detroit MI ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 8:16 PM > --> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger > > Giles & Europaphiles: > > Thanks for your information regarding the Schicke Regulator. I have > visited the Schicke web site. They appear to be up to version GR-6 on > their regulator. The specifications and wiring diagram are essentially > the same as the GR-4. It looks like it would be a suitable replacement > for the Ducati unit. > > The big question is: How do I get one here in the US? > > Herr Schicke has a very serious disclaimer at the bottom of his page > stating: "Ein Export der Gerte in die Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika > ist ohne schriftliche Einwilligung vonSchicke electronic nicht zulssig" > This translates loosely as: "Export of the devices into the United States > of America without written consent of Schicke Electronic is illegal!" > > Does anyone out there in Europa Land or Electronics Land know of a source > for the Shcicke GR-6 in North America? > > Good building and great flying, > Bob Borger > Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S > http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL > (85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system > in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage > Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap > drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Working in - 24 Instrument > Panel, 25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 29 Main Gear, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 > Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05. > Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. Preparing ROTAX 914 for installation. > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208 > Home: 940-497-2123 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:42 AM PST US From: "Jim Butcher" Subject: Europa-List: Re: Oshkosh --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" > Time: 04:44:46 PM PST US > From: jimpuglise@comcast.net > Subject: Europa-List: Oshkosh > > Have there been any Europa seminars scheduled? Lynne and I will be there Thu through > Sat. > > Jim Puglise Jim, There is a forum on Friday 7/28 from 5:30 pm to 6:45 pm at Pavilion 02. This is just an open forum, questions and answers from others. Also informal get togethers each day at 11:30 am at Homebuilders Headquarters. Dan Bish will post the list of attendees on Saturday 7/22 on this forum. See you at OSH! Jim & Heather Butcher N241BW Do Not Archieve ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:19 AM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X I've never had a problem with my RR unit. Richard -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BEBERRY@aol.com Sent: 17 July 2006 12:48 Siting of Regulator. Richard - that sounds much better. Does it need anything other than the natural cooling via the gills? Patrick ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:53 AM PST US From: "A.Chabert" Subject: Europa-List: Auto pilot Hello all, Is there one person who has experience of installation and of using altitude hold system? Similar to Atltrak or altitude hold from Trio avionics. (independant from the pitch trim) What mounting system using, where on the aircraft, what servo model, (effort) If you have photos, drawings or others. Thank you for yours informations and good day. Alain Chabert -- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:05 AM PST US From: "europa flugzeug fabrik" Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rectifier-Regulator 91X --> Europa-List message posted by: "europa flugzeug fabrik" rholder(at)avnet.co.uk wrote: > What I am getting is a visible current fluctuation, which I believe is _caused_ by a less visible voltage fluctuation. It takes very little change in voltage to cause large swings in current. Have you tried replacing the 22,000uf capacitor? You stated that older regulators work, but a run of new ones do not. It's possibe a redesign of the Rotax regulator circuit is more dependent upon the integrity of that big capacitor. Visible oscillation of the amp needle sounds like the difference between two high frequencies (beating) present both within and external to the regulator. If so, this would be evident at only specific RPMs, as you report. Mounting thse big caps in the engine room is not good -- heat. This can accelerate failure. Fred F. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=47818#47818 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:56 AM PST US From: peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk Subject: RE: Europa-List: Auto pilot --> Europa-List message posted by: peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk Hi Alain I've no experience of their vertical navigation equipment but have found that the roll axis product (EZ Pilot) from Trio is very well made. They were using the Navaids servo but have since started making their own due to poor quality of the bought in ones. Their customer support is second to none - when we had a problem (fault was with the GPS, not their product), they took a proactive approach and sorted it all at their own expense (including posting the product and our GPS back from the US to the UK). I understand that their recommendation is for the servo to attach as far back in the elevator control system as possible (not so easy if you've put the top on!) - of you don't, the system will hunt due to all the little bits of free play that exist in the system. I also believe that they?re continually working on updates to their system to give altitude hold, vertical speed preselect, altitude preselect etc. Hmmm ? getting tempted myself now?? That?s just my view on their products ? if you can?t get it to work, they will! Regards Peter >-- Original Message -- >To: >From: "A.Chabert" >Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:45:19 +0200 >Subject: Europa-List: Auto pilot > > >Hello all, > > > >Is there one person who has experience of installation and of using altitude >hold system? Similar to Atltrak or altitude hold from Trio avionics. > >(independant from the pitch trim) > > > >What mounting system using, where on the aircraft, what servo model, >(effort) If you have photos, drawings or others. > > > >Thank you for yours informations and good day. > > > >Alain Chabert > > >-- > ___________________________________________________________ Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:14 AM PST US From: Richard Holder Subject: Europa-List: Rectifier-Regulator 91X --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder Fred > rholder(at)avnet.co.uk wrote: >> What I am getting is a visible current fluctuation, >> which I believe is _caused_ by a less visible voltage >> fluctuation. > It takes very little change in voltage to cause large > swings in current. Have you tried replacing the > 22,000uf capacitor? You stated that older regulators > work, but a run of new ones do not. It's possibe a > redesign of the Rotax regulator circuit is more > dependent upon the integrity of that big capacitor. > > Visible oscillation of the amp needle sounds like the > difference between two high frequencies (beating) > present both within and external to the regulator. If > so, this would be evident at only specific RPMs, as you > report. > > Mounting thse big caps in the engine room is not good > -- heat. This can accelerate failure. Yup - I have changed the capacitor ! Some installations of the Rotax engine do not insist on the capacitor ! I have had one respondent now (with the fluctuation) who bought a RR dated July 05 so it could be that they changed the design early in 2005. Unfortunately most RR that were manufactured after that time will have been sold with engines, which may well have not yet been installed and run. Richard who is using the fluctuating RR but has covered up most of the ammeter to avoid distraction ! ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:07 AM PST US From: Subject: Europa-List: PPG to prime fiberglass? --> Europa-List message posted by: How did those prime Europa airframe with PPG primer? What was post cure time and sandpaper used after fill? What PPG primer? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PPG literature states that DPLF Epoxy Primer and K-36 can be applied over fiberglass. After talking to technical support, their stance is "fiberglass", means fiberglass with gel coat on it. They do not support apply of their primers over raw fiberglass. She said that if you apply K-36 over raw fiberglass, there is a good chance that seep in will cause problems. Unofficial from PPG, a good starting point would be to apply DPLF Epoxy primer at least 1.2 to 1.5 mil thick, wait 4 or 5 days, sand then apply K-36. An Autobody guy said he puts a thin coat of DPLF on Corvettes he works on, then lets cure for 1 day, then applies K-36 over DPLF without sanding. I plan to fill with Aeropoxy and Expancel, and top coat with PPG DCC. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:43 AM PST US From: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu Subject: Europa-List: Re: OSH Ira and Linda Rampil N224XS Will be camping Sat through Fri. My Trigear will not be making the trip this year ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:29 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Europa-List: Replacing Ducati regulator on Rotax 914 --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" Well at least he has a sense of humor, And they are available in Europe, -----Original Message----- Sent: 17 July 2006 16:37 Hello Mr. Phillips, the GR4 has indeed been superseded by the GR6. Both are basically the same but the GR6 has a much better heatsink. This enables the GR6 to take a higher permanent load. It is also a little lighter than the GR4. The GR6 is 82,- EUR + transport + VAT delivery ex stock. (1 pc is left!) The next batch will be ready in approx. 2 weeks. > Hi > > I have had good reports on your GR4 regulator replacing the Ducati > Regulator > on my Rotax 914, I noticed that your website doesn't show the GR4 only > the > GR6, > > Has the GR4 been superseded By the GR6 and is it available for purchase ? > > > Regards > > Ivor Phillips > > United Kingdom > best regards U. Schicke -- Schicke electronic Kanalstr. 32 D-76356 Weingarten Tel: +49-(0)7244/706445 Fax: +49-(0)7244/706446 Web: http://www.schicke-electronic.de Advice from an old pilot: "If you loose your engine/s at night, keep her steady until you're down to around 2000 ft, then turn on your lights. If you don't like what you see, turn your lights off"!! ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:18 AM PST US From: Subject: Europa-List: PPG DCC as top coat? --> Europa-List message posted by: To continue, once I have PPG primer down: How many coats of DCC were used? What type, if any clear coat was used on top surfaces? Anyone mix half DCC and Clear for final topcoat on top surfaces? Was any other UV protection used except for DCC and perhaps Clear? DPLF and K-36 provid no UV protection (according to PPG) and PPG offers no UV additives for primers. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:40 AM PST US From: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu Subject: Europa-List: Re Tefzel and Teflon wire The absolute best place I know for mil spec wire is Skycraft Surplus in Orlando. Wire is pennies on the dollar. Also usually in stock RG142b and or RG400 for less than a tenth retail price. Terminal strips, PIDG FastOns, LEDs, even space shuttle tiles (slightly used!) Easily worth a trip, but they ship. I was introduced to the place by Russ Lepre at FlightCrafters http://www.skycraftsurplus.com/ Ira N224XS ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:06 AM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Re: Europa-List: PPG DCC as top coat? --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart Ron Painting was another area we knew nothing about so took advice from our painter who had done several Europas and alot of work on composite racing cars. He was most adamant we should not mix polyester (car body fillers an 2 pack paints) with epoxy resins. We first had to apply a barrier coat ( we used Aerodur) over our surface filler ( we used polyfibre). He was then happy for us to use polyester fillers and to spray 2K primer and top coat. Had we know this at the start it would have made life a lot easier as we found filling pinholes with a very fine stopper putty much more effective than repeated coats of epoxy filler. As I say the thoughts of our painter rather than ourselves as we clain only to know about sanding! Regards Paul G-GIDY ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:27 AM PST US From: "Thomas Scherer" Subject: RE: Europa-List: knocking on heaven's door --> Europa-List message posted by: "Thomas Scherer" Karl, my fault. I guess one should refrain from writing eMails within minutes after landing due to lack of oxygen to the brain. I have two sets of blades: 64 and 73. I did fly the short ones yesterday. With the long blades (73 inch wide blade-tips) the ground clearance is 14 cm on my Trigear. Back-taxi is impossible: the prop would chop the fairing and tyre. be well, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Karl Heindl" > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: knocking on heaven's door > Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:36:05 +0100 > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" > > > Thomas, > > Can you please confirm that your prop is 73" and not 63". The ground clearance > would be very limited. > > Thanks, Karl > > > > > > From: "Thomas Scherer" > > To: > > Subject: Europa-List: knocking on heaven's door > > Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:41:50 -0700 > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Thomas Scherer" > > > > Hi everybody, > > > > this morning I took N81EU a Europa classic with Rotax 912ul, short wings up > > to 17,700 ft above Los Angeles, CA. Climb rate was still 110 ft in clear > > air. IAS was 74 knots ground temp at departure point (KCCB) was 96 deg F. > > (No OAT installed). > > > > Oil temps were high (250 deg F) up to 7000 ft and came down in the higher, > > cooler air. > > > > Lately I have installed a cold air supply from a NACA scoop on the lower > > starboard cowling feeding a homebuilt airbox mounted to the bing > > carburators. The cooler installation now features dual oil coolers in series. > > > > This might be a new high for a 912ul in a Europa without glider wings. > > > > I shall now start constructing some sort of air-compression device and try > > for higher. I was 300 ft below Airspace A with views ranging from Palm > > Springs to the SoCal Pacific ocean coast. > > > > The climb took 2 hrs and she used 36 litres of fuel. RPM at max alt was 5400 > > RPM. (prop is an Airmaster with 73 inch diameter). > > > > Happy landings ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:54 PM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re Tefzel and Teflon wire Ira When you say 'slightly used' Shuttle tiles did they fall off the back of................. Please excuse the UK sense of humour but I was delighted to see the Shuttle land safely today. I am still hoping to see a successful launch on one of my many visits to Florida. Regards Steve Pitt G-SMDH - in the last few days (hopefully) of being a non Europa flyer. PS Where in Orlando is Skycraft? ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:46 PM PST US From: "europa flugzeug fabrik" Subject: Europa-List: Re: PPG to prime fiberglass? --> Europa-List message posted by: "europa flugzeug fabrik" rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n wrote: > After talking to technical support, their stance is "fiberglass", means fiberglass with gel coat on it. They do not support apply of their apply of their primers over raw fiberglass. > > She said that if you apply K-36 over raw fiberglass, there is a good > chance that seep in will cause problems. Gelcoat is resin, either epoxy or polyester. On many Europa molded parts, no gelcoat per se, but the molding process leaves a thin resin coating on the outside. We don't use raw fiberglass, whatever that means. If you sand down excessively and cut into fibers, which is bad anyway, there will be problems when coating. Fred F. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48003#48003 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:57 PM PST US From: "europa flugzeug fabrik" Subject: Europa-List: Re: PPG DCC as top coat? --> Europa-List message posted by: "europa flugzeug fabrik" europa(at)pstewart.f2s.co wrote: > Painting was another area we knew nothing about so took advice from our painter who had done several Europas and alot of work on composite racing cars. > > He was most adamant we should not mix polyester (car body fillers an > 2 pack paints) with epoxy resins. Epoxy and polyster don't live together well, but what does he mean by 2-pack paints? There's 2-pack epoxies, polyurethanes, and acrylics. And both water-based and solvent-based in two of these families. > We first had to apply a barrier coat ( we used Aerodur) over our surface filler ( we used polyfibre). SuperFil is an epoxy, which is impervious to just about any solvent. It's porous enough to provide excellent adhesion. Before adding weight, I like to hear the need for a barrier coat under primer from the paint mfr and who knows what SuperFil is. Our concern should be adding unnecessary weight. Fred F. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48010#48010 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:13 PM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: PPG DCC as top coat? --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart As I said Fred only recounting the advice we were given - make of it what you will - you clearly know more about this -I'll stick to the sanding Regards Paul G-GIDY Paul On 17 Jul 2006, at 22:56, europa flugzeug fabrik wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "europa flugzeug fabrik" > > > > europa(at)pstewart.f2s.co wrote: >> Painting was another area we knew nothing about so took advice >> from our painter who had done several Europas and alot of work on >> composite racing cars. >> >> He was most adamant we should not mix polyester (car body fillers an >> 2 pack paints) with epoxy resins. > > Epoxy and polyster don't live together well, but what does he mean > by 2-pack paints? There's 2-pack epoxies, polyurethanes, and > acrylics. And both water-based and solvent-based in two of these > families. > > >> We first had to apply a barrier coat ( we used Aerodur) over our >> surface filler ( we used polyfibre). > > SuperFil is an epoxy, which is impervious to just about any > solvent. It's porous enough to provide excellent adhesion. Before > adding weight, I like to hear the need for a barrier coat under > primer from the paint mfr and who knows what SuperFil is. Our > concern should be adding unnecessary weight. > > Fred F. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48010#48010 > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:00 PM PST US From: SPurpura@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: PPG DCC as top coat? I would recomend Superfil for filler and SmothePrime with UV block applied with a roller as recomended. Don't waste your time mixing your own filler, do a small sample of each & sand it...huge difference. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:54 PM PST US From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: RE: Europa-List: PPG to prime fiberglass? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" I used the K-36 over UV smooth prime to seal it and am going to do my flyoff in this condition. The coating was good and it stayed pretty smooth. I used a HVLP gun and did not have good luck with it. However going to a normal spray gun led to better results. I did have a good deal of sanding to do but that was due to me having 4 thumbs when dealing with a spray gun. The sanding left me with an entirely acceptable finish. I believe I used grits between 360 and 600 both wet and dry. Steve Hagar A 143 N40SH Expect to fly within a week Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 7/17/2006 9:40:48 AM > Subject: Europa-List: PPG to prime fiberglass? > > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > How did those prime Europa airframe with PPG primer? > What was post cure time and sandpaper used after fill? > What PPG primer? > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > PPG literature states that DPLF Epoxy Primer and K-36 can be applied over > fiberglass. > > After talking to technical support, their stance is "fiberglass", means > fiberglass with gel coat on it. They do not support apply of their primers > over raw fiberglass. > > She said that if you apply K-36 over raw fiberglass, there is a good > chance that seep in will cause problems. > > Unofficial from PPG, a good starting point would be to apply DPLF Epoxy > primer at least 1.2 to 1.5 mil thick, wait 4 or 5 days, sand then apply > K-36. > > An Autobody guy said he puts a thin coat of DPLF on Corvettes he works on, > then lets cure for 1 day, then applies K-36 over DPLF without sanding. > > I plan to fill with Aeropoxy and Expancel, and top coat with PPG DCC. > > Ron Parigoris > > > > > > >