Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:42 AM - GPS interference-again (Niels Kock)
2. 02:12 AM - Re: GPS interference-again (Gilles Thesee)
3. 04:51 AM - Re: GPS interference-again (Brian Davies)
4. 05:37 AM - Re: GPS interference-again (Niels Kock)
5. 05:53 AM - Re: GPS interference-again (Niels Kock)
6. 06:14 AM - Re Wire and Skycraft Surplus (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu)
7. 08:52 AM - Painting (Erich Trombley)
8. 09:32 AM - Blue foam (Andrew Sarangan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | GPS interference-again |
In spite of being a member of the Europa Club since its birth I am a
newcomer on the forum-scene.
What prompted me to enter this scene is interference problems twixt my
Skymap IIIC and my KX125 radio.
Similar problems, I can see from browsing the archive-index, have been
discussed between Bryan Allsop and
Fred Fillinger a year ago, but there is some mysterious (to me)
variation in my case which I hope that Bryan or someone else
might be able to advise me about. But, please, slowly. I'm extremely
dim-whitted.
The problem, a chainsaw-like noise in the headphones when the GPS is on,
presented itself already in the distant past
with a Skymap-I, mounted in my Pa28. The solution was easy: I sold the
Piper, GPS included. Then built my present Europa
in which I mounted a Skymap II. All was bliss, until the noise after 3-4
years recurred. Yes, after 3-4 years! And only on some
frequenses, 119.52 where the interference was in bursts, and 118.5 (
and a few others), where the noise was continuous.
The Skymap II was then replaced by the IIIC. Ah, peace and quiet again -
for a while- until the problem recurred. First on the
old 119,25 (my home base), then increasingly on many other frequenses,
predominantly in the lower half range.
As with Bryan receiving and transmitting cancels out the noise more or
less, but not intercom, and it is absolutely enough to
render you insane and deaf. The interference also vanishes when the GPS
is removed from the panel and strapped to my
thigh, but that is a bit awkward.
The antenna line to the GPS runs from the spine of the Europa forwards
under the left door to the panel, and the one to the
Radio along the right hand side of the aircraft. The antenna coax to the
radio (and the TXP) are rather long and are coiled-up
inside the right hand side of the panel. Further, it doesn't matter
whether I use the fixed antenna or a loose one on top of the
panel.
My friendly avionics Wizart at Billund has after much head-scrtatching
applied a choise of his wizardry to the problem:
Making sure that connections on the GPS-coax are OK, even surrounded
said connection with some foil-like screening-material,
decreasing the squelch of the radio, applying some ferrite-pearls on
the individual leads of the power-lead to the GPS, all to
no avail. He has also expressed thoughts about some electronic component
in the GPS being ailing after some years' use.
The owner of a neighbouring helicopter-company whose helicopters use the
Skymap IIIC too, had the same problem which,
so he told me, was found to originate from the blower in the GPS due to
Worn bearings. Be that as it may, the Skymap I and
II do not have blowers, and were still beset with the problem!
It may well be an antenna/screening problem. But why does this problem
arise after a some years' impeccable service, and
then seem to increase?
Can anybody help with an explation which even I might grasp, and a
solution?
Niels Kock,
Odense, Denmark
OY-ODA
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: GPS interference-again |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Niels Kock a crit :
> ...
> It may well be an antenna/screening problem. But why does this problem
> arise after a some years' impeccable service, and
> then seem to increase?
>
> Can anybody help with an explation which even I might grasp, and a
> solution?
>
Niels,
Please remember that shielding is not a one-size-fits-all solution to
audio noise problems. It only works for specific cases. Many many times
it has something to do with proper grounding.
The appearance after some time may indicate a wiring related issue.
Are all your grounds properly connected at a unique point of the firewall ?
Is your intercom corrrectly wired ?
Why do you have a long coax run for the radio ? Why not shorten it and
(at least) gain on the signal attenuation ?
Are your antennas sufficiently remote from each other ?
Have you tried running each of the suspected device from a completely
separate power source (battery), to ascertain the radiated or conducted
origin of the problem ?
Since the noise seems to be related to some specific frequency ranges,
have you considered adding a notch-filter to your radio ? The Garmin
400-series call for a check of the VHF entire frequency range and the
addition of a 1.547 GHz notch filter at the rear of the radio in case of
interference problem.
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 3
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| Subject: | GPS interference-again |
Neils,
It might be worth a phone call to Skyforce in the UK. Although they are
part of Honeywell the unit is built in a small factory near Chichester in
the south of England. I have always found them very helpful. Their number
is +44 1243 783763.
Brian Davies
_____
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Niels Kock
Sent: 18 July 2006 09:34
In spite of being a member of the Europa Club since its birth I am a
newcomer on the forum-scene.
What prompted me to enter this scene is interference problems twixt my
Skymap IIIC and my KX125 radio.
Similar problems, I can see from browsing the archive-index, have been
discussed between Bryan Allsop and
Fred Fillinger a year ago, but there is some mysterious (to me) variation in
my case which I hope that Bryan or someone else
might be able to advise me about. But, please, slowly. I'm extremely
dim-whitted.
The problem, a chainsaw-like noise in the headphones when the GPS is on,
presented itself already in the distant past
with a Skymap-I, mounted in my Pa28. The solution was easy: I sold the
Piper, GPS included. Then built my present Europa
in which I mounted a Skymap II. All was bliss, until the noise after 3-4
years recurred. Yes, after 3-4 years! And only on some
frequenses, 119.52 where the interference was in bursts, and 118.5 ( and a
few others), where the noise was continuous.
The Skymap II was then replaced by the IIIC. Ah, peace and quiet again - for
a while- until the problem recurred. First on the
old 119,25 (my home base), then increasingly on many other frequenses,
predominantly in the lower half range.
As with Bryan receiving and transmitting cancels out the noise more or less,
but not intercom, and it is absolutely enough to
render you insane and deaf. The interference also vanishes when the GPS is
removed from the panel and strapped to my
thigh, but that is a bit awkward.
The antenna line to the GPS runs from the spine of the Europa forwards under
the left door to the panel, and the one to the
Radio along the right hand side of the aircraft. The antenna coax to the
radio (and the TXP) are rather long and are coiled-up
inside the right hand side of the panel. Further, it doesn't matter whether
I use the fixed antenna or a loose one on top of the
panel.
My friendly avionics Wizart at Billund has after much head-scrtatching
applied a choise of his wizardry to the problem:
Making sure that connections on the GPS-coax are OK, even surrounded said
connection with some foil-like screening-material,
decreasing the squelch of the radio, applying some ferrite-pearls on the
individual leads of the power-lead to the GPS, all to
no avail. He has also expressed thoughts about some electronic component in
the GPS being ailing after some years' use.
The owner of a neighbouring helicopter-company whose helicopters use the
Skymap IIIC too, had the same problem which,
so he told me, was found to originate from the blower in the GPS due to Worn
bearings. Be that as it may, the Skymap I and
II do not have blowers, and were still beset with the problem!
It may well be an antenna/screening problem. But why does this problem arise
after a some years' impeccable service, and
then seem to increase?
Can anybody help with an explation which even I might grasp, and a solution?
Niels Kock,
Odense, Denmark
OY-ODA
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No virus found in this incoming message.
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: GPS interference-again |
It can never hurt. I might just do that.
Thanks for your reply, Brian.
Kind regards,
Niels
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Davies
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: GPS interference-again
Neils,
It might be worth a phone call to Skyforce in the UK. Although they are
part of Honeywell the unit is built in a small factory near Chichester in t
he south of England. I have always found them very helpful. Their number
is +44 1243 783763.
Brian Davies
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-se
rver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Niels Kock
Sent: 18 July 2006 09:34
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Europa-List: GPS interference-again
In spite of being a member of the Europa Club since its birth I am a newc
omer on the forum-scene.
What prompted me to enter this scene is interference problems twixt my Sk
ymap IIIC and my KX125 radio.
Similar problems, I can see from browsing the archive-index, have been di
scussed between Bryan Allsop and
Fred Fillinger a year ago, but there is some mysterious (to me) variation
in my case which I hope that Bryan or someone else
might be able to advise me about. But, please, slowly. I'm extremely dim-
whitted.
The problem, a chainsaw-like noise in the headphones when the GPS is on,
presented itself already in the distant past
with a Skymap-I, mounted in my Pa28. The solution was easy: I sold the P
iper, GPS included. Then built my present Europa
in which I mounted a Skymap II. All was bliss, until the noise after 3-4
years recurred. Yes, after 3-4 years! And only on some
frequenses, 119.52 where the interference was in bursts, and 118.5 ( and
a few others), where the noise was continuous.
The Skymap II was then replaced by the IIIC. Ah, peace and quiet again -
for a while- until the problem recurred. First on the
old 119,25 (my home base), then increasingly on many other frequenses, pr
edominantly in the lower half range.
As with Bryan receiving and transmitting cancels out the noise more or le
ss, but not intercom, and it is absolutely enough to
render you insane and deaf. The interference also vanishes when the GPS i
s removed from the panel and strapped to my
thigh, but that is a bit awkward.
The antenna line to the GPS runs from the spine of the Europa forwards un
der the left door to the panel, and the one to the
Radio along the right hand side of the aircraft. The antenna coax to the
radio (and the TXP) are rather long and are coiled-up
inside the right hand side of the panel. Further, it doesn't matter wheth
er I use the fixed antenna or a loose one on top of the
panel.
My friendly avionics Wizart at Billund has after much head-scrtatching ap
plied a choise of his wizardry to the problem:
Making sure that connections on the GPS-coax are OK, even surrounded said
connection with some foil-like screening-material,
decreasing the squelch of the radio, applying some ferrite-pearls on the
individual leads of the power-lead to the GPS, all to
no avail. He has also expressed thoughts about some electronic component
in the GPS being ailing after some years' use.
The owner of a neighbouring helicopter-company whose helicopters use the
Skymap IIIC too, had the same problem which,
so he told me, was found to originate from the blower in the GPS due to W
orn bearings. Be that as it may, the Skymap I and
II do not have blowers, and were still beset with the problem!
It may well be an antenna/screening problem. But why does this problem ar
ise after a some years' impeccable service, and
then seem to increase=3F
Can anybody help with an explation which even I might grasp, and a soluti
on=3F
Niels Kock,
Odense, Denmark
OY-ODA
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Checked by AVG Release Date: 14/07/2006
--
14/07/2006
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: GPS interference-again |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Niels Kock" <nielskock@get2net.dk>
Thank you for your reply, Gilles.
A wiring-problem certainly is worth looking into, especially taking the
course of events into consideration. I shall
give the grounding and other wiring a hard look.
The GPS and Radio antenna are almost as far from each other as possible.
Still, it could perhaps be improved.
Also, I shall try to power the GPS from a surplus battery while it is
mounted in the panel, that would be an
easy test.
Finally, I will talk with my avionics-man about the notch filter.
If, and hopefully-when the cause and remedy is found I shall reveal it
through the forum.
Best regards,
Niels
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 11:07 AM
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Niels Kock a crit :
>> ...
>> It may well be an antenna/screening problem. But why does this problem
>> arise after a some years' impeccable service, and
>> then seem to increase?
>> Can anybody help with an explation which even I might grasp, and a
>> solution?
>>
> Niels,
>
> Please remember that shielding is not a one-size-fits-all solution to
> audio noise problems. It only works for specific cases. Many many times it
> has something to do with proper grounding.
> The appearance after some time may indicate a wiring related issue.
>
> Are all your grounds properly connected at a unique point of the firewall
> ?
> Is your intercom corrrectly wired ?
> Why do you have a long coax run for the radio ? Why not shorten it and (at
> least) gain on the signal attenuation ?
> Are your antennas sufficiently remote from each other ?
> Have you tried running each of the suspected device from a completely
> separate power source (battery), to ascertain the radiated or conducted
> origin of the problem ?
> Since the noise seems to be related to some specific frequency ranges,
> have you considered adding a notch-filter to your radio ? The Garmin
> 400-series call for a check of the VHF entire frequency range and the
> addition of a 1.547 GHz notch filter at the rear of the radio in case of
> interference problem.
>
> Regards,
> Gilles Thesee
> Grenoble, France
> http://contrails.free.fr
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re Wire and Skycraft Surplus |
Hi Steve,
Skycraft is on the Northeast side of Orlando, opposite side of town from
Flightcrafters
and the theme parks. One short block east of I4 highway exit at Fairbanks
Ave.
About 1.2 hour drive from Flightcrafters in Seffner.
Ira N224XS
Message 7
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Below is a copy of the message I posted a few years back on the process
and products I used on my Europa. Take it for what it is worth. This w
as my first painting project and I am very pleased with the results.
Regards,
Erich Trombley
The following is what I have
used on my Europa. The process and products were handed down to me from
another
Europa Builder and painting guru (Lynn Elsner) whos Europa is eight year
s
old and looks as good today as it did the day he painted it. Lynn has b
een using
this combination of primer and paint for many years on a number of airpl
anes
and the products have been around for even longer with proven results.
Primer PPG K36 Acrylic Urethane Primer/Sealer.
This is really nice stuff to work with. It is a two part primer that ca
n be rolled
on with ease (much to Lynn's surprise). I really love working with it.
The
final rolled coat looks so smooth you would swear it was sprayed. The f
iberglass substrate only needs
to be initially sanded to 80 grit as the primer can easily fill the sand
ing
marks (PPG recommends 80-150 grit for dry sanding between coats). Prior
to painting,
the primer will need to be wet sanded with 320 then 400 grit.
Top coat Sherwin-Williams Aerospace Coatings Acry-Glow Acrylic Urethan
e
This is a high quality aircraft paint that is chemically resistant to mo
st, if
not all aircraft fluids. Although somewhat expensive it is well worth t
he cost
($150 gallon including reducers and thinners). This produce is sprayed
with
a convention spray gun. I tried rolling it on to no avail (left million
s of
tiny bubbles in the paint). The product can also be clear coated for ad
ditional
UV protection, which is what I have done. In addition to the UV protect
ion
of the paint and hopefully the substrate, the plane has a professional l
ooking
finish with great depth. Although many nay sayers cite substantial weig
ht increase,I
disagree. When using a clear coat the objective is to apply just enough
color coat to cover the grey primer (usually one tack coat followed by t
wo
full coats). The color coat is then wet sanded (1,000 grit), thus remov
ing
even more weight and surface imperfections, prior to the application of
the clear
coat. One tack coat followed by three heavy coats
of clear finishes the painting. Next, the clear coat is wet sanded wi
th 1,000,
1,200 and finally 1,500 (again removing more weight and any surface impe
rfections).
Finally the surface is polished with a professional polisher and 3M
polishing compound.
Using the above process and never having painted before I have achieved
results
that are very satisfactory. Some say great. I am very pleased with pai
nt job
and I did it all my self. Very rewarding indeed!
I have since learned that Phoenix Composites (a builder assist shop in A
rizona)
uses the same products without the clear coat. Certainly the clear coat
is more
labor intensive; however I believe the additional UV protection and grea
t
looks are worth the effort. One final note, the above products are ver
y user
friendly and have a very steep learning curve. Most mistakes can be easi
ly fixed.
I converted my garage into a spry booth with filtered inlet air and a co
uple
of box fans with filters for the exit air (didnt want overspray on the v
ehicles
parked in the driveway). You will need a breath air system such as the
Hobby Air since the paint contains nasty chemicals that a respirator is
unable
to cope with.
Well I hope the above has been helpful.
Regards,
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
Las Vegas, NV
________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
<html><P>Below is a copy of the message I posted a few years back on the
process and products I used on my Europa. Take it for what it is
worth. This was my first painting project and I am very pleased wi
th the results.</P>
<P>Regards,</P>
<P>Erich Trombley</P>
<P> </P>
<P>The following is what I have<BR>used on my Europa. The process
and products were handed down to me from another<BR>Europa Builder and p
ainting guru (Lynn Elsner) whos Europa is eight years<BR>old and looks a
s good today as it did the day he painted it. Lynn has been using<
BR>this combination of primer and paint for many years on a number of ai
rplanes<BR>and the products have been around for even longer with proven
results. <BR><BR><FONT color=#a000a0>Primer PPG K36 Acryl
ic Urethane Primer/Sealer.<BR></FONT><BR>This is really nice stuff to wo
rk with. It is a two part primer that can be rolled<BR>on with eas
e (much to Lynn's surprise). I really love working with it.
The<BR>final rolled coat looks so smooth you would swear it was sprayed.
The fiberglass substrate only needs<BR>to be initially sande
d to 80 grit as the primer can easily fill the sanding<BR><FONT color=
#a000a0>marks (PPG recommends 80-150 grit for dry sanding between coats)
. Prior to painting,<BR></FONT>the primer will need to be wet sand
ed with 320 then 400 grit. <BR><BR>Top coat Sherwin-Williams
Aerospace Coatings Acry-Glow Acrylic Urethane<BR><BR>This is a hi
gh quality aircraft paint that is chemically resistant to most, if<BR>no
t all aircraft fluids. Although somewhat expensive it is well wort
h the cost<BR>($150 gallon including reducers and thinners). This
produce is sprayed with<BR>a convention spray gun. I tried rolling
it on to no avail (left millions of<BR>tiny bubbles in the paint). 
; The product can also be clear coated for additional<BR>UV protection,
which is what I have done. In addition to the UV protection<BR>of
the paint and hopefully the substrate, the plane has a professional look
ing<BR>finish with great depth. Although many nay sayers cite subs
tantial weight increase,I<BR>disagree. When using a clear coat the
objective is to apply just enough<BR>color coat to cover the grey prime
r (usually one tack coat followed by two<BR>full coats). The color
coat is then wet sanded (1,000 grit), thus removing<BR>even more weight
and surface imperfections, prior to the application of the clear<BR>coa
t. One tack coat followed by three heavy coats<BR> of clear finish
es the painting. Next, the clear coat is wet sanded with 1,000,<BR
>1,200 and finally 1,500 (again removing more weight and any surface imp
erfections).<BR>Finally the surface is polished with a professional poli
sher and 3M<BR>polishing compound. <BR><BR>Using the above process
and never having painted before I have achieved results<BR>that are ver
y satisfactory. Some say great. I am very pleased with paint
job<BR>and I did it all my self. Very rewarding indeed!<BR><BR>I
have since learned that Phoenix Composites (a builder assist shop in Ari
zona)<BR>uses the same products without the clear coat. Certainly
the clear coat is more<BR>labor intensive; however I believe the additio
nal UV protection and great<BR>looks are worth the effort. O
ne final note, the above products are very user<BR>friendly and have a v
ery steep learning curve. Most mistakes can be easily fixed.<BR>I conver
ted my garage into a spry booth with filtered inlet air and a couple<BR>
of box fans with filters for the exit air (didnt want overspray on the v
ehicles<BR>parked in the driveway). You will need a breath air sys
tem such as the<BR>Hobby Air since the paint contains nasty chemicals th
at a respirator is unable<BR>to cope with.<BR><BR>Well I hope the above
has been helpful.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Erich Trombley<BR>N28ET Classic Mon
o 914<BR>Las Vegas, NV <BR><BR><BR></P></html>
<font face="Times-New-Roman" size="2"><br><br>______________________
__________________________________________________<br>
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!<br>
Visit <a href="http://www.juno.com/value">http://www.juno.com/value</a
> to sign up today!<br></font>
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@yahoo.com>
I am looking for a few pieces of left-over blue foam. If you are
willing to part with some of these, please send me an email. Obviously
I will pay for shipping. I am in Ohio, so I would prefer someone
nearby, or at least in the continental U.S.
Thanks!
Andrew Sarangan
http://www.sarangan.org
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