Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:05 AM - Re: Rotax crankcase cracks (Graham)
2. 08:18 AM - Re: Rotax crankcase cracks (Rman)
3. 11:57 AM - OSHKOSH ATTENDEES - FINAL LIST - PART DUEX (danbish)
4. 12:17 PM - Re: Rotax crankcase cracks (nigel charles)
5. 12:42 PM - About europaowners.org (Jos Okhuijsen)
6. 02:21 PM - Re: Rotax crankcase cracks (Carl Pattinson)
7. 07:42 PM - Sad News - Oshkosh Accident (Bob Jacobsen)
8. 10:07 PM - Re: Sad News - Oshkosh Accident (Kingsley Hurst)
9. 10:16 PM - Re: Sad News - Oshkosh Accident (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rotax crankcase cracks |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Graham" <graham@pocock56.fsnet.co.uk>
As a regular reader of the list am I alone in thinking that the Rotax
engines 912, 912S (and 914 which I am not considering for my aircraft) are
beginning to show up an lot of problems?
Cooling, Evans coolant or not.
The Ducati regulator. Italian electrics are grim IMHO when fitted to bikes
,cars, tractors and it seems aircraft too.
Sprag clutch or Starter motor.
Carb balancing setup.
Throttle cables, are bowden cables best?
Crancase cracks!!!
Carb mounting rubbers splits
Exhaust fractures
Hot starting,- fuel cooling required.
I know that a few problems are peculiar to the Europa fit, and that many
engines have been sold so providing a wider reference base and I am hoping
that not everyone has all the faults, but they are all potentially there it
seems. Lets say would you keep your car very long with this engine?
Now I hav'nt made my engine choice yet but it will probably be the 912S
because the aircraft was designed with this fit, and its quietly
economical, factory support, etc...
It would be interesting to hear if anyone is really disappointed with the
Rotax or if the concensus is to live with a well known devil.
I am aware of the other engine choices but I am sure I will benefit from the
factory manual if I chose the Rotax.
Graham Pocock
535 XS Tri Gear
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:06 AM
> --> Europa-List message posted by: willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk
>
> Am I alone in being aghast by the way Rotax/Skydrive communicate the
> problem
> with crancase cracks? I had a bmw car once which was recalled by the
> dealer
> because of potential cracks in the steering column - bmw regarded it as
> their
> responsibility to fix it urgently at their own cost. By contrast, Rotax
> are
> saying in effect, "our product has a potential fault which may kill you so
> you'd better look out. Don't say we haven't warned you." Charming or what?
>
> Willie Harrison
> G-BZNY (shining after its twice yearly wash)
>
> ___________________________________________________________
>
> Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!
> http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
>
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rotax crankcase cracks |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rman <topglock@cox.net>
Graham,
With 200 hours on my 912S, I've had zero engine problems. It starts
every time and delivers a fuel burn of just under 4.5 gph at 5000 rpm
and 27.5 map. Hopefully I'll not experience any of the reported
gremlins reported by others, because I'm extremely satisfied with my
setup...
Jeff - Baby Blue
200 hours and one year in flight, as of today...
Time for her first annual...
Graham wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Graham" <graham@pocock56.fsnet.co.uk>
>
> As a regular reader of the list am I alone in thinking that the Rotax
> engines 912, 912S (and 914 which I am not considering for my
> aircraft) are beginning to show up an lot of problems?
>
> Cooling, Evans coolant or not.
> The Ducati regulator. Italian electrics are grim IMHO when fitted to
> bikes ,cars, tractors and it seems aircraft too.
> Sprag clutch or Starter motor.
> Carb balancing setup.
> Throttle cables, are bowden cables best?
> Crancase cracks!!!
> Carb mounting rubbers splits
> Exhaust fractures
> Hot starting,- fuel cooling required.
>
> I know that a few problems are peculiar to the Europa fit, and that
> many engines have been sold so providing a wider reference base and I
> am hoping that not everyone has all the faults, but they are all
> potentially there it seems. Lets say would you keep your car very long
> with this engine?
>
> Now I hav'nt made my engine choice yet but it will probably be the
> 912S because the aircraft was designed with this fit, and its quietly
> economical, factory support, etc...
>
> It would be interesting to hear if anyone is really disappointed with
> the Rotax or if the concensus is to live with a well known devil.
>
> I am aware of the other engine choices but I am sure I will benefit
> from the factory manual if I chose the Rotax.
>
> Graham Pocock
> 535 XS Tri Gear
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:06 AM
>
>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk
>>
>> Am I alone in being aghast by the way Rotax/Skydrive communicate the
>> problem
>> with crancase cracks? I had a bmw car once which was recalled by the
>> dealer
>> because of potential cracks in the steering column - bmw regarded it
>> as their
>> responsibility to fix it urgently at their own cost. By contrast,
>> Rotax are
>> saying in effect, "our product has a potential fault which may kill
>> you so
>> you'd better look out. Don't say we haven't warned you." Charming or
>> what?
>>
>> Willie Harrison
>> G-BZNY (shining after its twice yearly wash)
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>>
>> Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!
>> http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | OSHKOSH ATTENDEES - FINAL LIST - PART DUEX |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "danbish" <n914rb@earthlink.net>
One additional entry. Download and print.
DB
----------------
This Email contains Photos or Attachments located at the following link:
http://www.europaowners.org/viewtopic.php?p=11798#11798
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Rotax crankcase cracks |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk>
Most of these concerns are related to less than optimal set up by the
user and are not the direct fault of Rotax. I would make the following
comments about each topic raised.
>Cooling, Evans coolant or not.<
Provided adequate airflow is available through the radiators, the
standard 50% water/glycol mix is fine. For the Europa application in
very hot climates improved airflow can be achieved using a lowering
inlet chin flap. This can also be raised to reduce flow in winter to
prevent overcooling.
>The Ducati regulator. Italian electrics are grim IMHO when fitted to
bikes
,cars, tractors and it seems aircraft too.<
Whilst the Ducati regulator is not the most robust unit recent
discussion on the forum suggests that reliability is much improved if
the mean current load is less than 12A. Also improved cooling using
ducting is likely to improve reliability as well. Some failures are
caused by inadequate grounding of the regulator case.
>Sprag clutch or Starter motor.<
This has mainly been a problem associated with the 912S. The sprag
clutch wear was caused by kickbacks, which in turn was caused by the
higher compression of the 912S. A combination of using the higher power
starter and making sure the ignition timing is not too advanced seems to
have addressed the problem.
>Carb balancing setup.<
Any twin carb setup will need setting up correctly. Most Rotax users
manage to find a setting which achieves adequate balance.
>Throttle cables, are bowden cables best?<
Bowden cables give flexibility for various installations. There have
been a few problems where they have not been routed as smoothly as
necessary. Perhaps more exacting guidance of routing would help some
builders but avoiding tight curves usually gives good results.
>Crancase cracks!!!<
This has only just come to our attention. How much of a problem this is
as a percentage of all Rotax engines has yet to be seen. However the
fact that so many engine hours have been achieved before this has come
up infers it is likely only to affect a few engines. In any event it is
unlikely to be a problem with future engines as I am sure Rotax will
modify new castings accordingly.
>Carb mounting rubbers splits<
Any rubber parts are going to have a life and these are normally changed
as a service item at the 5 year point. The combination of high under
cowl temperatures and vibration means that this has to be considered an
acceptable requirement.
>Exhaust fractures<
This has come up a few times with certain batches of exhausts. Whilst
unsatisfactory this is not a problem which can be blamed on Rotax. The
exhaust manufacturer is employed by Europa and lessons have been learnt.
Part of the problem was associated with the fact that at least 3
different exhaust manufacturers had been used in the early days and
different exhausts used by the Classic and the XS. I am not aware of any
new problems that have not been fully sorted out.
>Hot starting,- fuel cooling required.<
This is one area which is made worse by the design of the Rotax. The
combination of miserly fuel flows and the fuel hose traversing the
length of the engine twice before reaching the carbs means that the fuel
gets heated within the engine compartment. This was the reason for the
bleedback pipe. Hot starts are a common problem with all closely cowled
engines. After shutdown the lack of airflow and fuel flow means the fuel
temperature easily exceeds 40degC within 10 minutes. Leaving the
inspection hatches open on short turnarounds helps but don't forget to
shut them again. I use the 914 NACA duct on the lower cowl for my 912S
to cool the fuel piping in the engine compartment using 50mm hose. As
this keeps the fuel temperature around ambient with the engine running I
have no problems with hot starts even without the bleedback pipe.
Nigel Charles
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | About europaowners.org |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Hi all,
It's already some time ago when this site started, and maybe it's a good
idea to repeat it's idea.
Among others it offers a place for every Europa builder and flyer to store
their projects photos. It's free of charge.
There are 6790 pictures now, of the tiniest bits to glorious looking
planes.
More are wanted.
If you want to share your project, or just would like to add a few
pictures you are welcome to do so, and if needed get some help and
explanation. Write to josok-e@ukolo.fi off list though.
Steve Dunsmeir installed and maintains the software, and me runs the
server.
--
Kind Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
workshop cam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane
http:www.europaowners.org/kit600
mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail
closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed,
fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling the fuse and
wings.
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rotax crankcase cracks |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Rotax engines may not be perfect but there isnt anything better IMHO. Mine
still runs faultlessly after over 600hrs and I have had no problems that
could be laid at the manufacturers door. If you had been involved with
Europas from the beginning you would realise that others have tried "better"
engines in their aircraft to their cost. All things considered Rotax 912s
and 914's are very reliable powerplants.
There is nothing wrong with Rotax's attitude towards the engine crack
warning. The likely hood is that only one or two engines have developed this
problem and as Rotax suggests this may be down to how the engine was
installed/ operated. If it was a car manufacturer they would probably not
say anything and simply fix the problem if it materialised (and probably
charge you for the priveledge).
Rotax are simply doing what any sensible aviation engine manufacturer would
do and draw your attention to a potential problem that if it occurrs is
probably your fault - because of the way you may have installed or operated
the engine. Rotax have no control over how their engines are used - they can
only make reccommendations on how to fit them which may or may not be
adhered to by the aircraft manufacturer (which in your case is you).
If yours was a certified aircraft and a problem developed you would seek
redress/ compensation from the aircraft manufacturer - because they fitted
the engine to their aircraft - exactly in the same way as you would if your
BMW developed a fault the only difference being that BMW makes their own
engines.
The reason the factory sticks with the 912s and 914s is because they are
generally reliable unlike the other engines they have tried eg: Subaru, Mid
West Rotary, Wilksch Diesel, BMW boxer, etc. The only other engine that is
halfway decent in the Europa is the Jabiru and that hasnt been without its
problems.
In my opinion if you fitted any other engine the list of Rotax snags you
quote would be minimal by comparison to what you would probably experience
with another manufacturer.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:00 PM
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Graham" <graham@pocock56.fsnet.co.uk>
>
> As a regular reader of the list am I alone in thinking that the Rotax
> engines 912, 912S (and 914 which I am not considering for my aircraft)
> are beginning to show up an lot of problems?
>
> Cooling, Evans coolant or not.
> The Ducati regulator. Italian electrics are grim IMHO when fitted to
> bikes ,cars, tractors and it seems aircraft too.
> Sprag clutch or Starter motor.
> Carb balancing setup.
> Throttle cables, are bowden cables best?
> Crancase cracks!!!
> Carb mounting rubbers splits
> Exhaust fractures
> Hot starting,- fuel cooling required.
>
> I know that a few problems are peculiar to the Europa fit, and that many
> engines have been sold so providing a wider reference base and I am
> hoping that not everyone has all the faults, but they are all potentially
> there it seems. Lets say would you keep your car very long with this
> engine?
>
> Now I hav'nt made my engine choice yet but it will probably be the 912S
> because the aircraft was designed with this fit, and its quietly
> economical, factory support, etc...
>
> It would be interesting to hear if anyone is really disappointed with the
> Rotax or if the concensus is to live with a well known devil.
>
> I am aware of the other engine choices but I am sure I will benefit from
> the factory manual if I chose the Rotax.
>
> Graham Pocock
> 535 XS Tri Gear
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:06 AM
>
>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk
>>
>> Am I alone in being aghast by the way Rotax/Skydrive communicate the
>> problem
>> with crancase cracks? I had a bmw car once which was recalled by the
>> dealer
>> because of potential cracks in the steering column - bmw regarded it as
>> their
>> responsibility to fix it urgently at their own cost. By contrast, Rotax
>> are
>> saying in effect, "our product has a potential fault which may kill you
>> so
>> you'd better look out. Don't say we haven't warned you." Charming or
>> what?
>>
>> Willie Harrison
>> G-BZNY (shining after its twice yearly wash)
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>>
>> Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!
>> http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Sad News - Oshkosh Accident |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra@hotmail.com>
Many of you old timers on the list know me well, some of the new ones may
not - I have re-subscribed so I can keep everyone up to date on the very sad
loss of Cliff & Betty Shaw in their beautiful Europa - Wiley E Coyote.
Cliff and Betty were lost today at Oshkosh when they crashed short of runway
26 while on landing approach. Details are not clear at this time.
Many of you know Cliff as he was always willing to give an opinion and help
out others & Betty for her freindly ways at fly-ins. I first met Cliff
about 28 years ago when we both built model boats, and we became fast
friends. We built lots of model projects together over the years so when I
began building my Europa several years ago I asked Cliff if he wanted to
help. He did and my Europa was completed in 18 months and was beautiful.
Cliff came up with lots of novel ideas that I used.
Eventually he became so interested that he took flying lessons and shortly
after my Europa was finished he got his license. We flew together in my
plane a lot - but eventually he wanted his own so he built his lovely
tri-gear. Cliff also worked for me two days a week so we always had fun
stories to share about flying all the time.
I last spoke with Cliff yesterday as I was getting daily updates from him on
his third excursion to Oshkosh in his plane.
Over the next several days I will update you all on information as I find
out. Cliff's son Mike is my store manager, please remember the family in
your thoughts and prayers.
Cliff & Betty were good friends - they will be missed.
Bob Jacobsen
N165BB (my old Europa)
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Sad News - Oshkosh Accident |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
Bob,
Very tragic news indeed about Cliff and Betty. This leaves a horrible
lump in my chest and I really don't know what to say.
When I read the subject line of your e-mail, I didn't dream it would be
one of our Europa brethren.
I didn't know Cliff personally but I know for sure he will surely be
missed on this forum.
Appreciate your letting us know thank you Bob.
Kingsley Hurst from Oz.
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Sad News - Oshkosh Accident |
To All,
It is with great sadness that I read of Cliff's accident and our loss of a
man with such a zeal for flying, especially in his Europa. My wife and I met
Cliff at Arlington last year and enjoyed having him join us for lunch. His
stories and insight into building were an inspiration for my progress. The p
icture
of him and his Europa on our Europa Flyer magazine didn't do his handiwork
justice. He was builder and a true professional, and he will be missed on th
is
side of the pond. Condolences go out to his family.
I added a writeup from the local Oshkosh newspaper.
Mike Duane
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Jabiru 3300
Posted July 23, 2006
Investigation continues in fatal AirVenture crash
BY AMANDA M. WIMMER
of The Northwestern
Federal aviation officials continue to investigate the fatal crash of a
homebuilt airplane as it approached the east-west runway at Wittman Regional
Airport Sunday morning.
The plane=99s two occupants were killed when their small homebuilt pla
ne came
down short of the runway as they arrived in Oshkosh at 8:45 a.m. in advance
of
today=99s opening of the Experimental Aircraft Association=99s a
nnual AirVenture
convention.
The plane went down just short of runway 27, which runs east and west, said
Dick Knapinski, spokesperson for the Experimental Aircraft Association.
The names of the pilot and passenger have not yet been released but they are
believed to have been from Washington, said Winnebago County Corner Barry
Busby.
Busby said it appears that the couple was in their middle 60s. Autopsies are
scheduled for this morning.
Knapinski estimated that the runway was closed for nearly an hour while crew
s
cleaned up Sunday morning=99s accident. However, airplanes were able t
o land on
other runways during that time.
The FAA and the National Transportation Safety Board are investigating the
crash.
Elizabeth Cory, of the FAA said the couple were flying a single engine
airplane but was not able to provide additional information.
Knapinski said about 800 to 1,000 homebuilt airplanes fly in for AirVenture
each summer.
Officials at the Homebuilt Headquarters on the AirVenture grounds said late
Sunday afternoon that they were not able to help identify the crash victims
because they don=99t have records of people flying in until they reach
the grounds.
The last fatal accident on the airport grounds during an EAA convention was
15 years ago, Knapinski said.
=9CIt was an air show accident on the airport grounds,=9D he sai
d.
About 28,000 homebuilt airplanes are registered in the United States each
year, Knapinski said. The number goes up by about 1,000 each year.
=9CTheir accident record is very close to that of a factory built airp
lane,=9D
Knapinski said. =9CThey are insured at roughly the same rate, as well.
=9D Posted
July 23, 2006
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|