Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:59 AM - Re : wiring (Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr)
2. 05:31 AM - Cliff Shaw (Fergus Kyle)
3. 06:13 AM - How to get updated Rotax Manuals? ()
4. 07:59 AM - Europa Oshkosh Accident (Bob Jacobsen)
5. 09:08 AM - Airspeed awareness in the circuit (Mark Burton)
6. 09:50 AM - Cross controlling ailerons and rudder in the landing approach (GLENN CROWDER)
7. 10:02 AM - Re: Europa Oshkosh Accident (JEFF ROBERTS)
8. 10:46 AM - Re: Cross controlling ailerons and rudder in the landing approach (Fred Klein)
9. 11:04 AM - Re: Cross controlling ailerons and rudder in the landing approach (GLENN CROWDER)
10. 11:25 AM - Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit (Carl Pattinson)
11. 02:42 PM - Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit (Mark Burton)
12. 03:14 PM - Re: Europa Oshkosh Accident (Andrew Sarangan)
13. 03:22 PM - Re: Europa Oshkosh Accident (JEFF ROBERTS)
14. 03:22 PM - Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit & cross controlling (rlborger)
15. 03:53 PM - Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit (R.C.Harrison)
16. 05:38 PM - Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit (europa flugzeug fabrik)
17. 10:51 PM - Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit (Mike Parkin)
18. 11:20 PM - Taming the Stall. (Mike Parkin)
19. 11:45 PM - Re: Europa Oshkosh Accident (Mark Burton)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr
Hi Ron and all,
> If wired as per Europa, primary will run as long as generator and
> regulator is functioning.
>
Failure of the regulator is not an unlikely event. That's why I considered this
case when designing the circuit.
My purpose was to prevent a regulator failure from becoming an engine emergency.
> Take a look at Europa 914 schematic so we are on same page:
> http://www.europa-aircraft.biz/pdfs/buildersmanuals/CBM%20-
> %2025%20-%20ELECTRICAL%20SYSTEM.pdf
> On page #11
>
> Unless B+ was shorted at regulator, by closing alternator output
> switchpower to primary pump will be provided from the battery
> should the
> regulator fail, or OVP take it off line.
>
How is your OVP wired ? If it is of the crowbar type, doesn't it disconnect the
offending generator/regulator unit from the ship's circuit ?
How is the "OV regulator failure" case managed ?
Of course, it is up to each builder to chose the degree of redundancy he is willing
to build into his systems.
Best regards,
Gilles
htttp://contrails.free.fr
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
It is never easy to react to the loss of one of our group. As with you, I
was saddened to hear of the accident and thought of the loss of a
contributor. So I went to my records and discovered fifteen emails from
Cliff to me - all of which were enterprising and innovative topics just to
me. There are of course hundreds more directed to us all from the net.
Cheers, Cliff and Betty, and thanks.
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
Message 3
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| Subject: | How to get updated Rotax Manuals? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Figure I should clog up Archives with an easy search on how to get up to
date rotax manuals.
Here is a repost I made to Rotax group.
Ron Parigoris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hello David
"So how do I get an updated manual?"
Ain't as easy as you think. Get proper mindset and ain't so bad.
First you need to get latest manuals offered by Rotax or update the
manuals you have to reflect the latest. You can download them, info in
Post I made to Europa Group below on how to do so.
These manuals are in no way up to date or complete. You need to massage
into the latest manuals "ALL" Alert Service Bulletins, Service Bulletins,
Service Instructions and Service Letters that pertain to you. You can sign
up on line so new information will be E-Mailed to you from sign up date
on.
Initial I went back to 2000 when I was compiling information for my 914UL,
then to be sure I went back further, missed some important stuff. Gotta go
back to the beginning, there are cases where a newer piece mandates you
follow something prior, or just plain old important stand alone stuff back
there.
I know that this is bad news to some, but instead of complaining, put
effort into educating yourself and having the info you need. Set aside a
night or 2 a week. My Rotax 4 inch binder has the front and rear covers
parallel.
I wish I could order up to date manuals by simply giving my engine serial
number, and what shows up is current to that date, and only need to update
from that date on. I know of no one who does this.
To make sure the covers of your book is parallel too, add:
http://www.greenskyadventures.com/engineservice/TechTips/912Ignition/912IgnDiagrahm.htm
http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_troubleshooting.htm
Be sure to not only to check out troubleshooting, but look at PPT for
causes of vibration
Another way to get manuals and info:
http://www.rotec.com/sdocintro.htm
Look for info in California Power Systems paid for Catalog, think I may
have some stuff in there from Leading Edge Airfoils.
Ron Parigoris
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Posted to Europa Newsgroup, just enter engine you have if not a 914UL:
Read on what Rotax has to say:
SI-914-003 Checking And Lubrication Of The Wastegate 6/1999 167
Under certain conditions, when operating using leaded fuels (AVGAS), lead
deposits may form on the turbo wastegate pivot shaft. These lead deposits
may cause the wastegate to stick and prevent proper turbocharger
operation.
Go here:
http://www.rotax-owner.com/sdocs.htm
Click "By Engine Model"
Select 914UL
Search
Look under service instructions and read SI-914-003
In essence it says to use a penetrant, but if that does not work, to open
up turbo and go after the shaft from the inside. good luck not breaking
any hardware.
All would be well advised to read and print "ALL" Alert Service Bulletins,
Service Bulletins, Service Instructions and Service Letters that apply to
you and your engine.
Then update and make notes in your manuals as you comply.
Of course you have all manuals??
If not go to:
http://www.kodiakbs.com/
Click Tech Info
Click Maintenance Manual
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/aircraft/aircraft.nsf/index?Openpage
Click Documentation
Get a Install Manual and Operators Manual
Monitoring Program
Parts Catalog
Message 4
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| Subject: | Europa Oshkosh Accident |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra@hotmail.com>
I have additional information on Cliff & Betty's Oshkosh accident. First is
the NTSB's preliminay report - this can also be found on the NTSB website.
Also the NTSB has spoken with Mike and a pilot we know who was an
eyewitness. Additionally I test flew Cliff's plane for him, knew him well
and knew what kind of pilot he was. My hope is this information will
prevent another accident of this type.
First the NTSB Report:
NTSB Identification: CHI06FA196
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Sunday, July 23, 2006 in Oshkosh, WI
Aircraft: Shaw Europa XS, registration: N229WC
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors.
Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
completed.
On July 23, 2006, at 0845 central dylight time, a Shaw Europa XS, N229WC,
collided with the runway following a loss of control while on final approach
to runway 27 (6,178 feet by 150 feet, dry asphalt) at the Wittman Regional
Airport (OSH), Oshkosh, Wisconsin. The private pilot and passenger were
fatally injured. The airplane was destroyed. The 14 Code of Federal
Regulations Part 91 personal flight was operating in visual meteorological
conditions without a flight plan. The flight originated from the Portage
Municipal Airport (C47), Portage, Wisconsin, at approximately 0815.
The airplane was landing at OSH for the EAA AirVenture fly-in. Witness
reported seeing the airplane "low and slow" on downwind to runway 27. One
witness, a certified flight instructor, stated the airplane remained slow as
it overshot final approach. The witnesses reported seeing the airplane stall
on final approach. The airplane impacted the runway on the displaced
threshold.
Now information about Cliff's plane.
I test flew the plane for the first time on 6/29/03 - Flight lasted about a
half hour. I did some slow flight to get airspeed readings but did not
fully stall the airplane. I felt that it would drop a wing - so I was very
careful to keep everything centered. About a week later John Hurst was
flying the plane with Cliff to try to iron out an engine problem. They
stalled the plane and it flipped inverted instantly. We added some stall
strips and got it's behavior a bit better - but it was a always a nasty
stalling airplane.
final. I am sure he pulled a hard turn to final while slow. I can also
guess he was a bit cross controlled and the plane stalled. snapped inverted
and went into a spin. I am told the plane impacted nose down and inverted.
I am also told it had spun "a couple of times".
The Europa is a great design however it does have a very powerful and
sensitive elevator (thats why is so fun). Additionally the rudder is
powerful - but must be used correctly. Cross controlling and accelerated
stalling any airplane is a problem, the Europa is even more so than some and
probably easier to do with the powerful controls.
Here is waht the FAA pilots flying handbook says about this:
According to the FAA publication Airplane Flying Handbook, section on
accelerated stalls and cross control stalls, ...Stalls which result from
abrupt maneuvers tend to be more rapid, or severe, than the unaccelerated
stalls, and because they occur at higher-than-normal airspeeds, they may be
unexpected by an inexperienced pilot. Failure to take immediate steps toward
recovery when an accelerated stall occurs may result in a complete loss of
flight control, notably, power-on spins... a cross control stall...is most
apt to occur during a poorly planned and executed base-to-final approach
turn...the airplane often stalls with little warning. The nose may pitch
down, the inside wing may suddenly drop and the airplane may continue to
roll to an inverted position...It is imperative that this type of stall not
occur during an actual approach to a landing since recovery may be
impossible prior to ground contact due to the low altitude...."
Bob Jacobsen
Message 5
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| Subject: | Airspeed awareness in the circuit |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mark Burton" <markb@ordern.com>
I know some folks may well think that I am trying to profit from the recent tragic
accident at Oshkosh but my motivation for writing this message is not to make
money out of that incident but rather to reduce the chance of a similar accident
occuring in the future.
As soon as I heard about that accident, it occurred to me that if Cliff's Europa
had been fitted with one of my talking ASI units, the accident may have been
avoided. Reading the preliminary accident report reinforces that view. I'm not
saying it would definitely have turned out differently, but it may have.
One of the main reasons for designing the talking ASI was to make the pilot very
aware of the airspeed during the later part of the circuit without requiring
them to have their eyes in the cockpit. The airspeed is "pushed" at the pilot
through their headset.
If I was financially well off, I would give a talking ASI to anyone who wanted one because I believe it makes a real contribution to flight safety. I can't afford to do that but if you are interested in obtaining one, please visit www.smartavionics.com.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50337#50337
Message 6
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| Subject: | Cross controlling ailerons and rudder in the landing approach |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
Hey Bob!
I am shocked and saddened by Cliff and Bettys accident at Oshkosh. This
should not
have happened to a pair who had been so helpful and friendly to others in
the flying
community.
It seems that there is some misunderstanding how a "cross controlled"
situation can
occur.
The classic cross controlled scenario is when the pilot overshoots the
base to final turn being
blown downwind using heavy ailerons and rudder to correct the overshoot up
to the point the plane is headed back to the runway and then the pilot uses
rapid opposite aileron to level the wings. The downgoing aileron on the
upwind side is asked to generate a lot more lift when the airspeed is very
slow, causing the upwind wing to stall precipitating a low altitude spin.
I was taught on the Europa to never use the bottom rudder on the turn from
base to final and just make the turn with ailerons. If you hit the bottom
rudder, you are slowing the inside wing more than the outside wing. It is
permissible to use the top rudder in the turn as this accelerates the inside
wing (which is what you do in a slip). So one can cause a stall by using
bottom rudder and not be cross controlled. I was taught that as long as you
use top rudder only (or no rudder at all) on the base to final turn, the
inside wing cannot stall first. Once lined up on final, I then start using
the rudder to maintain directional allignment with the runway. If I can't
make the turn just using the ailerons, I have screwed up and will do a go
around! The whole idea is that as long as
the aircraft stays coordinated, the wing will only stall straight ahead,
still not a good thing, but
possibly recoverable where a spin entry is not.
Glenn
>From: "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra@hotmail.com>
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Europa Oshkosh Accident
>Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:55:00 -0700
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra@hotmail.com>
>
>
>I have additional information on Cliff & Betty's Oshkosh accident. First
>is the NTSB's preliminay report - this can also be found on the NTSB
>website.
>
>Also the NTSB has spoken with Mike and a pilot we know who was an
>eyewitness. Additionally I test flew Cliff's plane for him, knew him well
>and knew what kind of pilot he was. My hope is this information will
>prevent another accident of this type.
>
>First the NTSB Report:
>
>NTSB Identification: CHI06FA196
>14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
>Accident occurred Sunday, July 23, 2006 in Oshkosh, WI
>Aircraft: Shaw Europa XS, registration: N229WC
>Injuries: 2 Fatal.
>
>This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors.
>Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
>completed.
>
>On July 23, 2006, at 0845 central dylight time, a Shaw Europa XS, N229WC,
>collided with the runway following a loss of control while on final
>approach to runway 27 (6,178 feet by 150 feet, dry asphalt) at the Wittman
>Regional Airport (OSH), Oshkosh, Wisconsin. The private pilot and passenger
>were fatally injured. The airplane was destroyed. The 14 Code of Federal
>Regulations Part 91 personal flight was operating in visual meteorological
>conditions without a flight plan. The flight originated from the Portage
>Municipal Airport (C47), Portage, Wisconsin, at approximately 0815.
>
>The airplane was landing at OSH for the EAA AirVenture fly-in. Witness
>reported seeing the airplane "low and slow" on downwind to runway 27. One
>witness, a certified flight instructor, stated the airplane remained slow
>as it overshot final approach. The witnesses reported seeing the airplane
>stall on final approach. The airplane impacted the runway on the displaced
>threshold.
>
>Now information about Cliff's plane.
>
>I test flew the plane for the first time on 6/29/03 - Flight lasted about a
>half hour. I did some slow flight to get airspeed readings but did not
>fully stall the airplane. I felt that it would drop a wing - so I was very
>careful to keep everything centered. About a week later John Hurst was
>flying the plane with Cliff to try to iron out an engine problem. They
>stalled the plane and it flipped inverted instantly. We added some stall
>strips and got it's behavior a bit better - but it was a always a nasty
>stalling airplane.
>
>final. I am sure he pulled a hard turn to final while slow. I can also
>guess he was a bit cross controlled and the plane stalled. snapped inverted
>and went into a spin. I am told the plane impacted nose down and inverted.
> I am also told it had spun "a couple of times".
>
>The Europa is a great design however it does have a very powerful and
>sensitive elevator (thats why is so fun). Additionally the rudder is
>powerful - but must be used correctly. Cross controlling and accelerated
>stalling any airplane is a problem, the Europa is even more so than some
>and probably easier to do with the powerful controls.
>
>
>Here is waht the FAA pilots flying handbook says about this:
>
>According to the FAA publication Airplane Flying Handbook, section on
>accelerated stalls and cross control stalls, ...Stalls which result from
>abrupt maneuvers tend to be more rapid, or severe, than the unaccelerated
>stalls, and because they occur at higher-than-normal airspeeds, they may be
>unexpected by an inexperienced pilot. Failure to take immediate steps
>toward recovery when an accelerated stall occurs may result in a complete
>loss of flight control, notably, power-on spins... a cross control
>stall...is most apt to occur during a poorly planned and executed
>base-to-final approach turn...the airplane often stalls with little
>warning. The nose may pitch down, the inside wing may suddenly drop and the
>airplane may continue to roll to an inverted position...It is imperative
>that this type of stall not occur during an actual approach to a landing
>since recovery may be impossible prior to ground contact due to the low
>altitude...."
>
>
>Bob Jacobsen
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Oshkosh Accident |
--> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
I have never meet Cliff but have viewed his web site several times
throughout my build. To hear you all speak of him and his wife I can
see I have missed meeting a great couple. To give of ones self and to
help others reach there goals is what the creator intended for all us,
and something I have been reminded to get better at, by Cliffs example.
I have just returned early from camping at Oshkosh. One of my goals was
to meet Cliff and get a chance up close to finally see Wile-E- Coyote.
With the rest of the Europa community I want to express my sincere
condolences to the Shaw family. My sadness for his family followed me
throughout my short stay there and has forced me to give a second
thought to the dangers I would ask of my own wife and family as I would
like them to enjoy my new plane. As a low time 300 + hour pilot at 26
hours into the 40 hour fly off of N128LJ... I am very concerned at the
cross-controlling and stall warning in this message... especially at
different weights! I have so far found the Europa to be the easiest
plane I have ever landed. I have slipped it down a few hundred feet on
final when approaching too high. I have landed it fast with 10 degrees
of flaps, or no flaps, on MQY's 5000 and 8000 ft strips, and full flaps
on a short grass strip. For safety I use 70 to 75 KTS on final and
have had no problem slowing with pitch and closing the throttle close
to the threshold. I have yet to be heavy though and that is my concern.
I believe if someone had stall numbers at different weights on a
tri-gear it may help all of us. If there is anyone out there with test
results on this subject... you have my vote to share them.
It is with the most possible respect for the Shaw family that I say I
hope we can all learn something positive from this otherwise seemingly
senseless tragedy.
Please do not archive.
Jeff
A258 - N128LJ - Flying
On Jul 28, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Bob Jacobsen wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Jacobsen"
> <jacobsenra@hotmail.com>
>
>
> I have additional information on Cliff & Betty's Oshkosh accident.
> First is the NTSB's preliminay report - this can also be found on the
> NTSB website.
>
> Also the NTSB has spoken with Mike and a pilot we know who was an
> eyewitness. Additionally I test flew Cliff's plane for him, knew him
> well and knew what kind of pilot he was. My hope is this information
> will prevent another accident of this type.
>
> First the NTSB Report:
>
> NTSB Identification: CHI06FA196
> 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
> Accident occurred Sunday, July 23, 2006 in Oshkosh, WI
> Aircraft: Shaw Europa XS, registration: N229WC
> Injuries: 2 Fatal.
>
> This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
> errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
> report has been completed.
>
> On July 23, 2006, at 0845 central dylight time, a Shaw Europa XS,
> N229WC, collided with the runway following a loss of control while on
> final approach to runway 27 (6,178 feet by 150 feet, dry asphalt) at
> the Wittman Regional Airport (OSH), Oshkosh, Wisconsin. The private
> pilot and passenger were fatally injured. The airplane was destroyed.
> The 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 personal flight was
> operating in visual meteorological conditions without a flight plan.
> The flight originated from the Portage Municipal Airport (C47),
> Portage, Wisconsin, at approximately 0815.
>
> The airplane was landing at OSH for the EAA AirVenture fly-in. Witness
> reported seeing the airplane "low and slow" on downwind to runway 27.
> One witness, a certified flight instructor, stated the airplane
> remained slow as it overshot final approach. The witnesses reported
> seeing the airplane stall on final approach. The airplane impacted the
> runway on the displaced threshold.
>
> Now information about Cliff's plane.
>
> I test flew the plane for the first time on 6/29/03 - Flight lasted
> about a half hour. I did some slow flight to get airspeed readings
> but did not fully stall the airplane. I felt that it would drop a
> wing - so I was very careful to keep everything centered. About a
> week later John Hurst was flying the plane with Cliff to try to iron
> out an engine problem. They stalled the plane and it flipped inverted
> instantly. We added some stall strips and got it's behavior a bit
> better - but it was a always a nasty stalling airplane.
>
> final. I am sure he pulled a hard turn to final while slow. I can
> also guess he was a bit cross controlled and the plane stalled.
> snapped inverted and went into a spin. I am told the plane impacted
> nose down and inverted. I am also told it had spun "a couple of
> times".
>
> The Europa is a great design however it does have a very powerful and
> sensitive elevator (thats why is so fun). Additionally the rudder is
> powerful - but must be used correctly. Cross controlling and
> accelerated stalling any airplane is a problem, the Europa is even
> more so than some and probably easier to do with the powerful
> controls.
>
>
> Here is waht the FAA pilots flying handbook says about this:
>
> According to the FAA publication Airplane Flying Handbook, section on
> accelerated stalls and cross control stalls, ...Stalls which result
> from abrupt maneuvers tend to be more rapid, or severe, than the
> unaccelerated stalls, and because they occur at higher-than-normal
> airspeeds, they may be unexpected by an inexperienced pilot. Failure
> to take immediate steps toward recovery when an accelerated stall
> occurs may result in a complete loss of flight control, notably,
> power-on spins... a cross control stall...is most apt to occur during
> a poorly planned and executed base-to-final approach turn...the
> airplane often stalls with little warning. The nose may pitch down,
> the inside wing may suddenly drop and the airplane may continue to
> roll to an inverted position...It is imperative that this type of
> stall not occur during an actual approach to a landing since recovery
> may be impossible prior to ground contact due to the low altitude...."
>
>
> Bob Jacobsen
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cross controlling ailerons and rudder in the landing |
approach
--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Glenn,
I have never heard the terms, "bottom rudder", or "top rudder". At the
risk of asking a stupid question, could you please explain the terms
and how they apply in the present instance.
Fred
On Friday, July 28, 2006, at 09:48 AM, GLENN CROWDER wrote:
>
> I was taught on the Europa to never use the bottom rudder on the turn
> from base to final and just make the turn with ailerons. If you hit
> the bottom rudder, you are slowing the inside wing more than the
> outside wing. It is permissible to use the top rudder in the turn as
> this accelerates the inside wing (which is what you do in a slip). So
> one can cause a stall by using bottom rudder and not be cross
> controlled. I was taught that as long as you use top rudder only (or
> no rudder at all) on the base to final turn, the inside wing cannot
> stall first.
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cross controlling ailerons and rudder in the landing |
approach
--> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
Hey Fred!
Bottom rudder would be the lower rudder pedal in a turn. On a left turn
to final,
the left rudder would be the bottom rudder.
Glenn
>From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cross controlling ailerons and rudder in the
>landing approach
>Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:43:51 -0700
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>
>Glenn,
>
>I have never heard the terms, "bottom rudder", or "top rudder". At the risk
>of asking a stupid question, could you please explain the terms and how
>they apply in the present instance.
>
>Fred
>
>On Friday, July 28, 2006, at 09:48 AM, GLENN CROWDER wrote:
>
>>
>> I was taught on the Europa to never use the bottom rudder on the turn
>>from base to final and just make the turn with ailerons. If you hit the
>>bottom rudder, you are slowing the inside wing more than the outside wing.
>> It is permissible to use the top rudder in the turn as this accelerates
>>the inside wing (which is what you do in a slip). So one can cause a
>>stall by using bottom rudder and not be cross controlled. I was taught
>>that as long as you use top rudder only (or no rudder at all) on the base
>>to final turn, the inside wing cannot stall first.
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
What is wrong with a normal stall warner - the buzzer can be plumbed onto
the intercom if desired or just placed at head height where the microphone
will pick up the noise.
Mine goes off 5kts before the stall but if the aircraft was in a turn and
the wing tip stalled there wouldnt be enough warning.
Some Europas will drop a wing if they are not straight and level prior to
the stall. This is further complicated if the panel isnt perfectly aligned
with the wings - dont laugh, ours isnt and it all looks perfectly level in
the cockpit. The only clue is that the ball sits slightly to the left when
flying straight and level. If you centre the ball and initiate a stall there
is a severe wing drop especially with the flaps down. wonder how many other
Europas have the same characteristic.
It would surprise me that such an experienced pilot would make such a basic
mistake but then we have all done stupid things when our concentration has
been disturbed.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 5:04 PM
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mark Burton" <markb@ordern.com>
>
> I know some folks may well think that I am trying to profit from the
> recent tragic accident at Oshkosh but my motivation for writing this
> message is not to make money out of that incident but rather to reduce the
> chance of a similar accident occuring in the future.
>
> As soon as I heard about that accident, it occurred to me that if Cliff's
> Europa had been fitted with one of my talking ASI units, the accident may
> have been avoided. Reading the preliminary accident report reinforces that
> view. I'm not saying it would definitely have turned out differently, but
> it may have.
>
> One of the main reasons for designing the talking ASI was to make the
> pilot very aware of the airspeed during the later part of the circuit
> without requiring them to have their eyes in the cockpit. The airspeed is
> "pushed" at the pilot through their headset.
>
> If I was financially well off, I would give a talking ASI to anyone who
> wanted one because I believe it makes a real contribution to flight
> safety. I can't afford to do that but if you are interested in obtaining
> one, please visit www.smartavionics.com.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50337#50337
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mark Burton" <markb@ordern.com>
Having a stall warning alarm has to be better than nothing at all but it probably
won't give you much protection in the case of an accelerated stall in a Europa.
I have stalled my Europa many times (at height, of course) and, often, one
of the wings will go down very quickly.
My belief is that if the airspeed is maintained within the "safe zone" (given
the aircraft weight and weather conditions) then you are unlikely to stall unless
the controls are operated inappropriately.
Regards,
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50406#50406
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Oshkosh Accident |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@yahoo.com>
What's confusing to me is the witness statement that he was "low and
slow on downwind". Getting slow and low on final is somewhat
understandable, esepcially if he was attempting to do a short field
landing, but getting low on downwind seems a bit strange. Is it
possible that his static port was malfunctioning, giving an incorrect
altitude and airspeed?
--- Bob Jacobsen <jacobsenra@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Jacobsen"
> <jacobsenra@hotmail.com>
>
>
> I have additional information on Cliff & Betty's Oshkosh accident.
> First is
> the NTSB's preliminay report - this can also be found on the NTSB
> website.
>
> Also the NTSB has spoken with Mike and a pilot we know who was an
> eyewitness. Additionally I test flew Cliff's plane for him, knew him
> well
> and knew what kind of pilot he was. My hope is this information will
>
> prevent another accident of this type.
>
> First the NTSB Report:
>
> NTSB Identification: CHI06FA196
> 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
> Accident occurred Sunday, July 23, 2006 in Oshkosh, WI
> Aircraft: Shaw Europa XS, registration: N229WC
> Injuries: 2 Fatal.
>
> This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
> errors.
> Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has
> been
> completed.
>
> On July 23, 2006, at 0845 central dylight time, a Shaw Europa XS,
> N229WC,
> collided with the runway following a loss of control while on final
> approach
> to runway 27 (6,178 feet by 150 feet, dry asphalt) at the Wittman
> Regional
> Airport (OSH), Oshkosh, Wisconsin. The private pilot and passenger
> were
> fatally injured. The airplane was destroyed. The 14 Code of Federal
> Regulations Part 91 personal flight was operating in visual
> meteorological
> conditions without a flight plan. The flight originated from the
> Portage
> Municipal Airport (C47), Portage, Wisconsin, at approximately 0815.
>
> The airplane was landing at OSH for the EAA AirVenture fly-in.
> Witness
> reported seeing the airplane "low and slow" on downwind to runway 27.
> One
> witness, a certified flight instructor, stated the airplane remained
> slow as
> it overshot final approach. The witnesses reported seeing the
> airplane stall
> on final approach. The airplane impacted the runway on the displaced
> threshold.
>
> Now information about Cliff's plane.
>
> I test flew the plane for the first time on 6/29/03 - Flight lasted
> about a
> half hour. I did some slow flight to get airspeed readings but did
> not
> fully stall the airplane. I felt that it would drop a wing - so I
> was very
> careful to keep everything centered. About a week later John Hurst
> was
> flying the plane with Cliff to try to iron out an engine problem.
> They
> stalled the plane and it flipped inverted instantly. We added some
> stall
> strips and got it's behavior a bit better - but it was a always a
> nasty
> stalling airplane.
>
> final. I am sure he pulled a hard turn to final while slow. I can
> also
> guess he was a bit cross controlled and the plane stalled. snapped
> inverted
> and went into a spin. I am told the plane impacted nose down and
> inverted.
> I am also told it had spun "a couple of times".
>
> The Europa is a great design however it does have a very powerful and
>
> sensitive elevator (thats why is so fun). Additionally the rudder is
>
> powerful - but must be used correctly. Cross controlling and
> accelerated
> stalling any airplane is a problem, the Europa is even more so than
> some and
> probably easier to do with the powerful controls.
>
>
> Here is waht the FAA pilots flying handbook says about this:
>
> According to the FAA publication Airplane Flying Handbook, section on
>
> accelerated stalls and cross control stalls, ...Stalls which result
> from
> abrupt maneuvers tend to be more rapid, or severe, than the
> unaccelerated
> stalls, and because they occur at higher-than-normal airspeeds, they
> may be
> unexpected by an inexperienced pilot. Failure to take immediate steps
> toward
> recovery when an accelerated stall occurs may result in a complete
> loss of
> flight control, notably, power-on spins... a cross control stall...is
> most
> apt to occur during a poorly planned and executed base-to-final
> approach
> turn...the airplane often stalls with little warning. The nose may
> pitch
> down, the inside wing may suddenly drop and the airplane may continue
> to
> roll to an inverted position...It is imperative that this type of
> stall not
> occur during an actual approach to a landing since recovery may be
> impossible prior to ground contact due to the low altitude...."
>
>
>
> Bob Jacobsen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Oshkosh Accident |
--> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
I have never meet Cliff but have viewed his web site several times
throughout my build. To hear you all speak of him and his wife I can
see I have missed meeting a great couple. To give of ones self to help
others reach there goals is what the creator intended for all us, and I
have been reminded to get better at it by Cliffs example.
I have just returned early from camping at Oshkosh. One of my goals was
to meet Cliff and get a chance up close to finally see Wile-E- Coyote.
With the rest of the Europa community I want to express my sincere
condolences to the Shaw family. My sadness for his family followed me
throughout my short stay there and has forced me to give a second
thought to the dangers I would ask of my own wife and family as I would
like them to enjoy my new plane. As a low time 300 + hour pilot at 26
into the 40 hour fly off of N128LJ... I am very concerned at the
cross-controlling and stall warning in this message, especially at
different weights. I have so far found the Europa to be the easiest
plane I have ever landed. I have slipped it down a few hundred feet on
final when approaching too high. I have landed it fast with 10 degrees
of flaps, or no flaps, on MQY's 5000 and 8000 ft strips, and full flaps
on a short grass strips. For safety I use 70 to 75 KTS on final and
have had no problem slowing with pitch and closing the throttle close
to the threshold. But I have yet to be heavy and that is my concern.
I believe if someone has stall numbers at different weights on a
tri-gear it may be a good time to post them. If there is anyone out
there with test results on this subject... you have my vote to share
them.
It is with the most possible respect for the Shaw family that I say I
hope we can all learn something positive from this awful tragedy.
Please do not archive.
Jeff
A258 - N128LJ - Flying
On Jul 28, 2006, at 9:55 AM, Bob Jacobsen wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Jacobsen"
> <jacobsenra@hotmail.com>
>
>
> I have additional information on Cliff & Betty's Oshkosh accident.
> First is the NTSB's preliminay report - this can also be found on the
> NTSB website.
>
> Also the NTSB has spoken with Mike and a pilot we know who was an
> eyewitness. Additionally I test flew Cliff's plane for him, knew him
> well and knew what kind of pilot he was. My hope is this information
> will prevent another accident of this type.
>
> First the NTSB Report:
>
> NTSB Identification: CHI06FA196
> 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
> Accident occurred Sunday, July 23, 2006 in Oshkosh, WI
> Aircraft: Shaw Europa XS, registration: N229WC
> Injuries: 2 Fatal.
>
> This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
> errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
> report has been completed.
>
> On July 23, 2006, at 0845 central dylight time, a Shaw Europa XS,
> N229WC, collided with the runway following a loss of control while on
> final approach to runway 27 (6,178 feet by 150 feet, dry asphalt) at
> the Wittman Regional Airport (OSH), Oshkosh, Wisconsin. The private
> pilot and passenger were fatally injured. The airplane was destroyed.
> The 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 personal flight was
> operating in visual meteorological conditions without a flight plan.
> The flight originated from the Portage Municipal Airport (C47),
> Portage, Wisconsin, at approximately 0815.
>
> The airplane was landing at OSH for the EAA AirVenture fly-in. Witness
> reported seeing the airplane "low and slow" on downwind to runway 27.
> One witness, a certified flight instructor, stated the airplane
> remained slow as it overshot final approach. The witnesses reported
> seeing the airplane stall on final approach. The airplane impacted the
> runway on the displaced threshold.
>
> Now information about Cliff's plane.
>
> I test flew the plane for the first time on 6/29/03 - Flight lasted
> about a half hour. I did some slow flight to get airspeed readings
> but did not fully stall the airplane. I felt that it would drop a
> wing - so I was very careful to keep everything centered. About a
> week later John Hurst was flying the plane with Cliff to try to iron
> out an engine problem. They stalled the plane and it flipped inverted
> instantly. We added some stall strips and got it's behavior a bit
> better - but it was a always a nasty stalling airplane.
>
> final. I am sure he pulled a hard turn to final while slow. I can
> also guess he was a bit cross controlled and the plane stalled.
> snapped inverted and went into a spin. I am told the plane impacted
> nose down and inverted. I am also told it had spun "a couple of
> times".
>
> The Europa is a great design however it does have a very powerful and
> sensitive elevator (thats why is so fun). Additionally the rudder is
> powerful - but must be used correctly. Cross controlling and
> accelerated stalling any airplane is a problem, the Europa is even
> more so than some and probably easier to do with the powerful
> controls.
>
>
> Here is waht the FAA pilots flying handbook says about this:
>
> According to the FAA publication Airplane Flying Handbook, section on
> accelerated stalls and cross control stalls, ...Stalls which result
> from abrupt maneuvers tend to be more rapid, or severe, than the
> unaccelerated stalls, and because they occur at higher-than-normal
> airspeeds, they may be unexpected by an inexperienced pilot. Failure
> to take immediate steps toward recovery when an accelerated stall
> occurs may result in a complete loss of flight control, notably,
> power-on spins... a cross control stall...is most apt to occur during
> a poorly planned and executed base-to-final approach turn...the
> airplane often stalls with little warning. The nose may pitch down,
> the inside wing may suddenly drop and the airplane may continue to
> roll to an inverted position...It is imperative that this type of
> stall not occur during an actual approach to a landing since recovery
> may be impossible prior to ground contact due to the low altitude...."
>
>
> Bob Jacobsen
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit & cross controlling |
Fellow Europaphiles,
I guess I have to add my 2 bits to these topics (one topic really).
Skid or slip, both are cross controlled conditions. If the ball
isn't in the center, you are cross controlled. The slip is less
dangerous, but you can stall out of it too, you just stall the "up"
wing instead of the "down" wing.
The turn from base to final is the source of one heck of a lot of
accidents. Usually the result of a delayed turn. The delay might be
due to a misjudgment of the winds, a bit too long on the scan up
final to check for someone out there, unexpected radio call,
whatever. You find yourself overshooting the turn and you want to
get back lined up on final. You steepen the bank but it isn't enough
and you are low and slow enough that you don't want to increase the
bank angle any more. Darn, you are so close to that center line,
maybe just a quick poke of that "down" rudder will chase the nose
around and get you close to lined up. You poke and, Bingo, the
"down" wing stalls, you flip over and you are in a spin at an
altitude where you'll never recover. It's very insidious. It can
happen to anyone regardless of experience level. I saw it happen to
a highly experienced glider tow pilot (many many hours) in a Super
Cub when he tried to hurry the turn to final so he get down to pick
up that next tow ASAP. Luckily, he walked (limped?) away from it
bruised but otherwise unhurt.
My private instructor warned me incessantly about it. Finally
demonstrating it to me at altitude. It impressed me! Man, one
minute you are in a nice turn, then you are doing an upside down spin
entry. I think we lost 1000 - 1500 feet (300 - 500 meters for you
folks on the east side of the pond) before we recovered. The other
interesting thing was no stall warning till it was way too late and
we were going over. That was in 1968 and I'm STILL impressed.
(Thanks to Carol "Speed" Conaway for that lesson!)
All I can say is resist that temptation to use that "down" rudder to
hurry the nose around when you are already uncomfortable with the
bank angle and turn rate. That "down" wing is on the inside of the
turn, moving much slower than the "up" wing on the outside. Even
though your airspeed may look OK, it probably wouldn't take much of a
kick on the rudder to make the low wing stop flying.
I'll get off my soapbox and let the rest of you fire away.
Good building and great (safe, please, I don't want to lose any more
friends) flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in,
Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar
in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Working in - 24
Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 29 Main Gear, 30 Fuel
System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster
arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. Preparing ROTAX
914 for installation.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 15
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| Subject: | Airspeed awareness in the circuit |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! All
Firstly belated but sincere condolences to all the bereaved family and
friends of Cliff and Betty Shaw.
I feel really humble making pronouncements at such an early time and
indeed wonder if with about 600 hours total and only on this type of a/c
I'm qualified to pass an opinion but here goes......
I believe that the cross control thing is really commonly known as a
"side slip"?
Whilst this is a useful phenomenon for rapid loss of height on an
approach I have always been very cautious to not engage in such a
manoeuvre at low air speed and with flaps deployed. Perhaps I never had
to land on a strip with such needs?
However IMHO an important aid to stall warning needs to be associated
with the conditions on both wings hence the use of stall strips on both
wings.
I experienced my first severe wing drop this April whilst doing the
annual flight tests on my a/c but at 5,000ft.
I had for some time been flying on the very edge of the stall with full
buffet being experienced with flaps deployed and power on but with the
a/c quite co-ordinated in control when it suddenly and violently dropped
a port wing like a stone and was clearly entering a spin. I initiated
normal spin recovery ...nose down opposite rudder and cut the throttle,
but I had lost more than a 1000ft in a blink of the eye. It has shown no
previous tendency to this whilst I've flown it.
I applied a lot of thought to the conditions which I'd entered and
realised I had been not only down wind but also slightly across the wind
path so the wings were not likely to have had symmetrical lift
conditions anyway and so were not co-ordinated. I failed to notice the
probability of a slightly different buffet phenomenon with only the one
wing actually entering the dramatic stall but I presume it would have
been less obvious than a fully co-ordinated buffet.
The point I seek to make is that whilst on approach to land all turns
need to be co-ordinated, at an adequate height well above stall speed
and not inclusive of any unusual or violent manoeuvres. IMHO these
approaches can only really be described as "LONG FINALS". Only then can
you afford to allow the airspeed to be anywhere near the stall
conditions.(and no side slips)
In making this statement I don't wish to appear clever but to promote
some more discussion around my particular perception for me to consider
as advice for myself.
This re-enforces the valuable aid of Mark Burtons air speed voice kit in
that it provides a constant read out whilst your eyes are on other
business.
( I don't have that assistance .....yet!)
Personally I never commence the flare at less than 65kts, fully laden or
not, and I seek to maintain no less than 60kts until within a foot of
the runway, only then am I prepared to allow the speed to sink further
(especially in gusty wind or where there's possibility of wind shear.)
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG ....under repair !
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Pattinson
Sent: 28 July 2006 19:24
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Pattinson"
<carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
What is wrong with a normal stall warner - the buzzer can be plumbed
onto
the intercom if desired or just placed at head height where the
microphone
will pick up the noise.
Mine goes off 5kts before the stall but if the aircraft was in a turn
and
the wing tip stalled there wouldnt be enough warning.
Some Europas will drop a wing if they are not straight and level prior
to
the stall. This is further complicated if the panel isnt perfectly
aligned
with the wings - dont laugh, ours isnt and it all looks perfectly level
in
the cockpit. The only clue is that the ball sits slightly to the left
when
flying straight and level. If you centre the ball and initiate a stall
there
is a severe wing drop especially with the flaps down. wonder how many
other
Europas have the same characteristic.
It would surprise me that such an experienced pilot would make such a
basic
mistake but then we have all done stupid things when our concentration
has
been disturbed.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 5:04 PM
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mark Burton" <markb@ordern.com>
>
> I know some folks may well think that I am trying to profit from the
> recent tragic accident at Oshkosh but my motivation for writing this
> message is not to make money out of that incident but rather to reduce
the
> chance of a similar accident occuring in the future.
>
> As soon as I heard about that accident, it occurred to me that if
Cliff's
> Europa had been fitted with one of my talking ASI units, the accident
may
> have been avoided. Reading the preliminary accident report reinforces
that
> view. I'm not saying it would definitely have turned out differently,
but
> it may have.
>
> One of the main reasons for designing the talking ASI was to make the
> pilot very aware of the airspeed during the later part of the circuit
> without requiring them to have their eyes in the cockpit. The airspeed
is
> "pushed" at the pilot through their headset.
>
> If I was financially well off, I would give a talking ASI to anyone
who
> wanted one because I believe it makes a real contribution to flight
> safety. I can't afford to do that but if you are interested in
obtaining
> one, please visit www.smartavionics.com.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50337#50337
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "europa flugzeug fabrik" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> It would surprise me that such an experienced pilot would make such a basic mistake
but then we have all done stupid things when our concentration has been
disturbed.
Having flown into the Oshkosh convention many times, it is indeed a unique and
exhilirating experience. However, things can happen which divert your attention.
What people in front of you are doing. What tower may tell you, but you don't
quite understand. But the rule at AirVenture is you just listen, and never
key the mike, so there's no colloquy.
I violated that rule once, while following some WWI-era biplane or replica, I swear
in slow flight. My plane on the verge of stall-warning horn with full flaps
down is a real turtle. But I still had to break it off the right downwind
for 27, going north over the City.
Gotta love the ATC people who work Oshkosh AirVenture, because they spotted my
plight. I was turning west, to go back down to the City of Ripon per the NOTAM
procedure and start all over (but parking may fill up), when Tower said..."Low
wing over the City...suggest you bring your plane back NOW, for mid-field entry
to the downwind. Traffic behind you will be a Cessna 337, but he's still
over the railroad tracks not ready to turn right downwind for 27. Please keep
your speed up...he's a 337...and please make short approach. Land on the green
dot! [midway down the long ryw, temporarily painted in iridescent paint].
Seemingly knife-edge bank, 100% power mashed in to comply, I spotted that 337 traffic,
and picked up the mike and said. "Low wing over the city THANKS YOU!"
Very occasionally at KOSH, we violate an advisory thing in the Oshkosh arrival
NOTAM to compliment an FAA employee who did something he/she was not required
to do.
Upon hitting that green dot (how I don't know; I'm not that good!). Tower says,
"Nice job Grumman!....337 [instructed to land short on the other color dot at
the rwy threshold] follow that Grumman ahead of you to parking." Thence, quickly
on to ATC instructions to other folks streaming in, couple thousand feet
apart.
The point of this is that flying into OSH is a very unique thing and such accidents
are extremely rare. Most tend to arrive a little hot -- the rush of the
arrival drill, so they'll never stall-spin, and it actually helps ATC. We have
to be honest with ourselves, and maybe even 95% of us would be little served
with a hand-written panel placard for OSH which says, "ALWAYS FLY THE AIRPLANE."
We may never learn what happened here, because our NTSB does not investigate amateur-built
accidents with anywhere near the thoroughness of the AAIB in the
UK. It probably will be chalked up in probable cause (AAIB avoids probable cause
determinations -- our NTSB has considered same approach) to failure to maintain
flying speed. I'm as saddened by this accident as anybody here, but it
happened...and it can happen in any aircraft.
Fred F.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50435#50435
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Airspeed awareness in the circuit |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
> I applied a lot of thought to the conditions which I'd entered and
> realised I had been not only down wind but also slightly across the wind
> path so the wings were not likely to have had symmetrical lift
> conditions anyway and so were not co-ordinated.
Bob,
Sorry Bob, but flying across wind does not mean that there is more lift on
one wing than the other.
Apart from the effects of gusts, the direction of flight relative to the
prevaling wind direction is irrelevant.
The aircraft is flying in a 'packet of air' in the normal manner and moves
relative to the ground as a result of the vector of the aircraft through
that packet of air and the vector of the packet of air itself.
There are some inertia problems which can manifest themselves when turning
from upwind to downwind tending to cause the IAS to decay a little. This is
one of the many factors affecting the decision to turnback following an
engine failure after take-off . My own opinion about flying turnbacks is
DO NOT DO IT.
On another subject - the Europa Company stall warner does give a good
warning of an approaching stall - normal and accellerated.
regards,
Mike
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Taming the Stall. |
The sad loss of Cliff and Betty Shaw has highlighted the Europa's
behaviour around the stall.
Similar to 'Wiley E Coyote' , my aircraft G-JULZ had a severe (right)
wing drop in the flaps down configuration stall. G-JULZ has an XS
fuselage but the original foam wings.
In the early days of flying G-JULZ I noticed that the ailerons were
nicely in line with the wings when on the ground but in the air with the
wings loaded the ailerons were no longer streamlined with the wing.
In straight and level flight it appeared that the right aileron was
slightly drooped. Over several flights I slowly adjusted out the droop
at the wing root. The result was the tendency to wing drop had
disappeared and G-JULZ now has very benign stall characteristics in all
configurations - normal and accellerated.
With the factory stall warner fitted, it was not necessary to fit any
stall strips to the wing at all, which keeps the wings aerodynamically
clean and permits the maximum short field performance.
Now this is not the solution for all wing drop problems; symmetry of
the wings (particularly the foam ones), flap set-up and the actual
incidence of the wing to the fuselage all have an effect.
But have a look at the ailerons when the wing is loaded. If you have a
wing drop at the stall, it might be part of the problem.
Plainly, adjusting the ailerons to correct a streamlining problem will
have an effect on the travel limits of the controls which must be
considered.
regards,
Mike
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Oshkosh Accident |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mark Burton" <markb@ordern.com>
If you use a GPS (who doesn't?) then it makes sense to compare your airspeed against
the GPS when you are downwind in the circuit and also when you have just
turned onto final to avoid being fooled by a gross error caused by a failure
of the pitot/static/asi system. Obviously, you have to take the (possibly estimated)
windspeed into account and the numbers will rarely match up exactly but
if the results are wildly different, you can be on your guard.
Mark
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