Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:45 AM - 912S engine vibration (Richard Iddon)
2. 03:17 AM - Re: 912S engine vibration (Duncan McFadyean)
3. 04:13 AM - Re: 912S engine vibration (Richard Iddon)
4. 07:31 AM - Engine failure due to filters (Fergus Kyle)
5. 07:31 AM - Re: Stalls and spins (David Joyce)
6. 10:33 AM - Re: Fuel Filters (rlborger)
7. 12:04 PM - Re: 912S engine vibration ()
8. 12:04 PM - Re: 912S engine vibration ()
9. 12:04 PM - Re: engine failure due to filters (Belinda Glover)
10. 02:50 PM - Europa for Sale (Sven den Boer)
11. 03:01 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Filters (BEBERRY@aol.com)
12. 04:53 PM - Re: 912S engine vibration (Kim Prout)
Message 1
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Subject: | 912S engine vibration |
I am experiencing a slight vibration whilst at cruise speed / rev's. I
have tried a number of things to rectify it including balancing the prop
(thanks to Mark Burton), checking the carb mounting rubbers for splits,
balancing the carb's and changing the spark plugs. All to no avail. It
is not a major vibration and, having got a little paranoid about it, it
is maybe mostly in my head now but I am still slightly concerned about
it. Seems to be worst at around 110 knots with the prop at 'cruise'
setting, i.e. 5000 rpm and a manifold pressure around 23in. Engine is
912S with an Airmaster prop.
Any idea's?
Incidentally when checking the carb mounting rubbers I did discover a
split starting in one. It hadn't gone right through but was significant
so I have changed them for the latest mounting rubbers. This has
probably been discussed before but If you are not sure whether yours are
the latest, look at the jubilee type clip which holds them to the carb.
The latest have a spacer inserted to stop you overtightening them.
Another check is the number on the flange. My old one's were numbered
267787 and the new one's 267788
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: 912S engine vibration |
<< I did discover a split starting in one>>
Richard,
Have you always had the airbox fitted?
It is unusual to find the rubbers splitting in the presence of an
airbox.
Can't comment on the vibration, other than to check that any LE prop
protection is secure.
Rgds.,
Duncan.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Iddon
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:37 AM
Subject: Europa-List: 912S engine vibration
I am experiencing a slight vibration whilst at cruise speed / rev's. I
have tried a number of things to rectify it including balancing the prop
(thanks to Mark Burton), checking the carb mounting rubbers for splits,
balancing the carb's and changing the spark plugs. All to no avail. It
is not a major vibration and, having got a little paranoid about it, it
is maybe mostly in my head now but I am still slightly concerned about
it. Seems to be worst at around 110 knots with the prop at 'cruise'
setting, i.e. 5000 rpm and a manifold pressure around 23in. Engine is
912S with an Airmaster prop.
Any idea's?
Incidentally when checking the carb mounting rubbers I did discover a
split starting in one. It hadn't gone right through but was significant
so I have changed them for the latest mounting rubbers. This has
probably been discussed before but If you are not sure whether yours are
the latest, look at the jubilee type clip which holds them to the carb.
The latest have a spacer inserted to stop you overtightening them.
Another check is the number on the flange. My old one's were numbered
267787 and the new one's 267788
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
Message 3
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Subject: | 912S engine vibration |
Duncan.
I always have had the airbox fitted. It was my local Rotax man who
urged me to have a closer look at the rubbers. He tells me that he has
come across splits in the sockets on engines with only a few hours
although these are probably on microlights with unsupported carbs. I
couldn't see the crack with the rubbers in place, I had to remove them
completely and bend them around to find it.
Cheers.
Richard.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Duncan
McFadyean
Sent: 05 August 2006 11:16
<< I did discover a split starting in one>>
Richard,
Have you always had the airbox fitted?
It is unusual to find the rubbers splitting in the presence of an
airbox.
Can't comment on the vibration, other than to check that any LE prop
protection is secure.
Rgds.,
Duncan.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:37 AM
I am experiencing a slight vibration whilst at cruise speed / rev's. I
have tried a number of things to rectify it including balancing the prop
(thanks to Mark Burton), checking the carb mounting rubbers for splits,
balancing the carb's and changing the spark plugs. All to no avail. It
is not a major vibration and, having got a little paranoid about it, it
is maybe mostly in my head now but I am still slightly concerned about
it. Seems to be worst at around 110 knots with the prop at 'cruise'
setting, i.e. 5000 rpm and a manifold pressure around 23in. Engine is
912S with an Airmaster prop.
Any idea's?
Incidentally when checking the carb mounting rubbers I did discover a
split starting in one. It hadn't gone right through but was significant
so I have changed them for the latest mounting rubbers. This has
probably been discussed before but If you are not sure whether yours are
the latest, look at the jubilee type clip which holds them to the carb.
The latest have a spacer inserted to stop you overtightening them.
Another check is the number on the flange. My old one's were numbered
267787 and the new one's 267788
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
Message 4
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Subject: | Engine failure due to filters |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Nigel,
Thanks for the timely and interesting run-down on the aspects of
tank and filter. This will not apply to 912 readesr but for us 914ers:
Would you think a continuous running of series/parallel fuel
pumps (with short circuits from output to return line) would forestall some
of this plugging before flight? Since we here have a mandatory engine-run
minimum perhaps we could do the above during that period and allay some of
the suggested gumming/swarf concern.
I have combined my 3/8inch alu tubing with a concentrated
plumbing compartment (in the second of 56 compartments below the extended
baggage section) where the filters are hinged above all so that they are (a)
easily and quickly inspected, and (b) by draining the Andair below, emptied
for dis-assembly and cleaning as required. I'm not sure it would meet with
anyone else's needs but my inspector has OK'd it. If I can master the
technique, will try to reduce photo size and send to anyone interested.
Cheers, and thanks again,
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
PS: Superb set-up there and hugs for Kathy.
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Stalls and spins |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Willie, This for me underlines the benefit of Mark's Smartass system, as
opposed to a stall warner. The Europa good weather approach speed of 60 kts
is some 20kts over the normal stall speed for my plane, and Mark's system
will consequently give you 20 kts worth of warning if you are slowing,
whereas the stall warner clicks in only 5kts or so ahead of trouble. Losing
5 or 10 kts due to windshear is commonplace in reasonable weather
conditions, and although in ideal circumstances we are monitoring speed like
hawks and will compensate before things have got too much out of line, it
can be an entirely different kettle of fish if the workload is excessive -
perhaps a very busy circuit with someone appearing to cut in front of you
(typical rally scenario you might think!). In those sort of circumstances
you may already have let things get a bit slow and low, and might without
giving it full thought be still trying to make the nose point at the
numbers, while mostly concentrating on the guy to starboard who is
threatening to cut in. With the Smartass Mark's lovely wife will have
already told you several times that you are too slow or much too slow, but
without it, the windshear, the stall warner and the spin may all happen more
or less simultaneously. That system incidentally lets you set the chosen
approach speed very simply in the circuit, so that you can for instance set
a higher speed if conditions are boisterous, 'fickle' or whatever.
I should say that I don't have shares, nor yet a Smartass, but I have
flown with one and plan to put one in when I redesign my panel.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 11:22 AM
> --> Europa-List message posted by: willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk
>
> It seems to me that everyone is right - it doesn't matter how you stay
alert
> to the possibility of one or both wings stalling, if you let them, so long
> as you really do stay alert and maintain a safe margin at all times. Alert
> is the operative word. I'm sure we have all been reminded by this tragedy
> that stall/spin is a common killer and it could happen to any of us if we
> let it.
>
> The one specific thing I'd like to share was an incident ages ago when I
> stalled a Jodel from 30 feet due to windshear at Audley End (which can be
> very fickle if the wind is coming straight over the top of the hill). One
> moment I had an approach airspeed of 50kts, and the next it was 30 and I
> was falling not flying. Fortunately that aircraft had loads of washout on
> the wing so at least I came down the right way up.
>
> Willie Harrison
> G-BZNY - about to get a dose of Mod 66 following breakage of gas strut
attachment
> lug...
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
>
> Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!
> http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Doctors.net.uk education: totally independent, totally free.
> http://www.doctors.net.uk/education
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Filters |
Ferg,
I'd sure like to see pics of your setup.
I still have the old, original, parallel pump setup with the glass
filters in line between the fuel selector and the pumps. I'm not
crazy about the setup, but haven't been able to come up with what I
believe is a suitable alternative.
Right now, I'm thinking about adding a single large Anadir gascolator
in-line before the Tee to the glass filters and pumps. But I need to
mount it such that it's easily accessible for maintenance.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(85%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in,
Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar
in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done. Baggage bay in. Working in - 24
Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical, 28 Flaps, 29 Main Gear, 30 Fuel
System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. Airmaster
arrived 29 Sep 05. Seat arrived from Oregon Aero. Waiting for E04
interior kit. Preparing for ROTAX 914 installation.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: 912S engine vibration |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello Richard
"I am experiencing a slight vibration whilst at cruise speed / rev's."
"Any idea's?"
Have a look at:
http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_vibration.htm
Have a look at causes of vibration and troubleshooting.
You will need to install Microsoft PowerPoint Viewer, free on that link if
Powerpoint will not open as was the case with my version. You need to
download the ppt, then open the viewer, and open the ppt through the
viewer.
Does operating on 1 igniton then the other change things?
You said you adjusted your carb sync. Did you make absolute certain that
the routing of your cables is not creating lost motion due to flexing of
the cables? How about the bug nuts perhaps being overtightened (bug nuts
are the cylinder in the carb linkage arm that you thread the cable through
and tighten the screw to hold the cable) if the cylinder is not able to
rotate free it can cause carbs to become out of sync, just like the
hysteriousis caused by flexing of cables.
You check careful no cable too close to heat and got damaged?
Did you replace the float pins as per the bulletin? If you think carbs are
perhaps a bit rich, turn off your fuel selector in cruise, when bowls go
low mixture will get leaner, best do it only for an instant, turn off
fuel, if it gets better, pull power and turn on selector, go land and
trouble shoot rich. If it has no change, the split second it begins to get
rough, or if you have a EGT and you see going high, pull power, and turn
on selector. I have no first hand experience with a Europa, but the BD5
used to adjust mixture (leaner) by having a needle valve control flow into
the 3 carbs of a Zenoah! It is possable that if you are good with fiddly
things you could actual restrict flow enough with selector to prolong the
good running to be sure.
Did you check to make absolute sure the prop blades are in good shape,
that they are tracking precise and that the angles are exact? The spinner
is tracking true, tight and no severe cracks?
Did you check to see if your undercarriage mounting frame is cracked>
Inspect motor mounts, tight and the motor mount and mounting ring OK.
Are your both your carb float bowl vents in good shape, no kinks and run
to ambient air?
Fly at vibration speed for a while, land and check plugs for color? Best
to pull power quit engine and deadstick but if not wanting to do that,
lose altitude with power setting left alone and lose altitude with steep
turns, and land and shut down as quick as practicable.
Check very careful your exhaust for cracks, your carbs are not covered in
exhaust grunge by chance, are they?
Let us know resolve.
Ron Parigoris
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: 912S engine vibration |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello Richard
"I am experiencing a slight vibration whilst at cruise speed / rev's."
"Any idea's?"
Have a look at:
http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_vibration.htm
Have a look at causes of vibration and troubleshooting.
You will need to install Microsoft PowerPoint Viewer, free on that link if
Powerpoint will not open as was the case with my version. You need to
download the ppt, then open the viewer, and open the ppt through the
viewer.
Does operating on 1 igniton then the other change things?
You said you adjusted your carb sync. Did you make absolute certain that
the routing of your cables is not creating lost motion due to flexing of
the cables? How about the bug nuts perhaps being overtightened (bug nuts
are the cylinder in the carb linkage arm that you thread the cable through
and tighten the screw to hold the cable) if the cylinder is not able to
rotate free it can cause carbs to become out of sync, just like the
hysteriousis caused by flexing of cables.
You check careful no cable too close to heat and got damaged?
Did you replace the float pins as per the bulletin? If you think carbs are
perhaps a bit rich, turn off your fuel selector in cruise, when bowls go
low mixture will get leaner, best do it only for an instant, turn off
fuel, if it gets better, pull power and turn on selector, go land and
trouble shoot rich. If it has no change, the split second it begins to get
rough, or if you have a EGT and you see going high, pull power, and turn
on selector. I have no first hand experience with a Europa, but the BD5
used to adjust mixture (leaner) by having a needle valve control flow into
the 3 carbs of a Zenoah! It is possable that if you are good with fiddly
things you could actual restrict flow enough with selector to prolong the
good running to be sure.
Did you check to make absolute sure the prop blades are in good shape,
that they are tracking precise and that the angles are exact? The spinner
is tracking true, tight and no severe cracks?
Did you check to see if your undercarriage mounting frame is cracked>
Inspect motor mounts, tight and the motor mount and mounting ring OK.
Are your both your carb float bowl vents in good shape, no kinks and run
to ambient air?
Fly at vibration speed for a while, land and check plugs for color? Best
to pull power quit engine and deadstick but if not wanting to do that,
lose altitude with power setting left alone and lose altitude with steep
turns, and land and shut down as quick as practicable.
Check very careful your exhaust for cracks, your carbs are not covered in
exhaust grunge by chance, are they?
Let us know resolve.
Ron Parigoris
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: engine failure due to filters |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Belinda Glover" <belinda@gloverb.freeserve.co.uk>
Peter,
I had the replacement Yellow date stamped black fuel pipe supplied F.O.C. by
Europa go exactly the same way as the non date stamped first one.
The aircraft had been filled with fuel (since there is no water trap)and
left standing for some weeks waiting on PFA paperwork and the fuel ate its
way through a full fuel pipe! I sent the original back to Europa for them to
examine but never got any feedback. When the second pipe did the same thing
and the fuel was again found on opening the cockpit, sat in the starboard
baggage bay, I decided that I would have to source my own pipe.
In both cases the pipe had embrittled and cracked right though where the
fuel sat in the lowest part of the pipe. On removal and cutting the pipe,
the inner fuel proof lining was loose and disintegrated. There were lots of
small rubber particles which forced me to flush the tank.
It sounds like you might have a similar problem.
Regards
Gary McKirdy
NSI Subaru 75hrs TT Crashed by previous owner @50hrs Re-built by me, just
Re-crashed by me, deciding on second re-build!+- 4000 build and rebuild hrs!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 10:11 PM
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees"
<peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Nigel - Thanks for your words on engine failures - in the early days of us
> flying it G-MFHI suffered a partial engine failure - the trouble was
> isolated to the filter being clogged with fibers. I presume that these
were
> latent from when the AC was built - I guess at the time of the failure,
the
> filters were the original ones and the logbook had about 30 hours or so
(we
> didn't build the AC so can't say for sure but the logbooks show no record
of
> them being changed).
>
> Some 150 hours later, we're still forced to change the filters very
> regularly (we clean them about ever 5 flight hours!) - we're getting small
> brown particles coming though and being trapped by the filters. We're at
> something of a loss as to what these particles are - we've changed all of
> the fuel pipes from the filters backwards. The only hose that hasn't been
> touched since new is the filler hose.
>
> Have you heard any instances of this hose breaking down and edpositing
bits
> into the fuel? Do you think that as a matter of course, given that this
hose
> is some 10 years old now, replace it. If so, any suggestions of the best
> solution - Europa are unable to supply one and have no interest in doing
so.
>
> Any comments / suggestions would be most welcome.
>
> Peter
>
>
Message 10
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|
All,
Putting my Bird up for Sale, I am moving to a 4 seater.
http://www.planecheck.com/?ent=da&id=6058
Sven den Boer
A168
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Filters |
Bob,
I have the same ste up and it seems to work very well. The filters are
easily accessible and take only minutes to check. I see no reason to add any
complications. The a/c has 140 hours and no problems.
Patrick
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: 912S engine vibration |
Hello Richard!
I noticed that the replies to your vibration inquiry included everything
external. My 912, at about 400 hours started developing a significant
vibration that drove me nuts until I sent in the propeller speed reduction
assembly in for service. Upon disassembly, I noticed that the primary gear
set from the crankshaft to the driving dog was worn. Whatever frequency was
associated with that apparently translated to low frequency vibration outpu
t
to the gearbox and engine. I replaced the gear set in addition to the usual
servicing of the gearbox and this made the engine smooth again. An internal
problem, not external. I don=B9t know how many hours you have on your Rotax
and if you have serviced the gearbox at the recommended 200 hour intervals
but this can make a significant difference and has proven out in other
Europas with same complaint.
Good Luck and ...
Happy Skies!
kp
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