---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/08/06: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:06 AM - Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? () 2. 12:53 AM - Re: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? (GLENN CROWDER) 3. 01:02 AM - Re: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? (nigel charles) 4. 05:44 AM - Re: Cylinder cracks on 914? (ivor.phillips) 5. 07:39 AM - Air Box Falling Off (JEFF ROBERTS) 6. 08:13 AM - Re: Air Box Falling Off (James) 7. 09:18 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 08/07/06 (EMAproducts@aol.com) 8. 09:48 AM - Re: Air Box Falling Off (Pete Lawless) 9. 10:07 AM - Re: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? (Jim Naylor) 10. 10:15 AM - Re: Air Box Falling Off (JEFF ROBERTS) 11. 11:26 AM - Re: Air Box Falling Off (Karl Heindl) 12. 11:55 AM - Re: Oshkosh by air - return by Avis (Donald Ingram) 13. 12:23 PM - Re: Air Box Falling Off (JEFF ROBERTS) 14. 01:30 PM - Re: Air Box Falling Off (Duncan McFadyean) 15. 01:46 PM - Re: Air Box Falling Off (karelvranken) 16. 04:28 PM - Re: Air Box Falling Off (Rman) 17. 06:13 PM - Re: Cylinder cracks on 914? (SPurpura@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:12 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? From: --> Europa-List message posted by: Anyone flying have a monowheel gear warning success story? I am not yet flying, but from the 20 minute demo flight and what I have read, you will have a hard time landing a monowheel with flaps up because you can't see the runway. That is until you slip to landing one day?? What are details of what folk do for a gear warning? Opinions if a gear warner is worth the effort, or is GUMP all that is necessary? Thx. Ron Parigoris Just heard of a friend land gear up with his Cozy 3. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:00 AM PST US From: "GLENN CROWDER" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? --> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" Hey Ron! I have been flying the mono 5 years now and have not had a single incident where I forgot to put the gear down. It is the first thing I do on the landing checklist and I check it again on short final. The retract handle is also the up/down indicator. Also, the aircraft is very hard to slow down to 65 - 70 mph without dropping the flaps and you would never see the runway to do the approach (unless you were doing 100 plus!) I think one would have to get extremely confused to blow it but maybe someone could manage it! I did have one takeoff where I forgot to retract the flaps/gear but I climbed 1000 ft easily before noticing. I also have no stall warner or stall strips although I think the talking ASI would be nice. Glenn >From: >To: >Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? >Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 07:04:48 -0000 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: > >Anyone flying have a monowheel gear warning success story? > >I am not yet flying, but from the 20 minute demo flight and what I have >read, you will have a hard time landing a monowheel with flaps up because >you can't see the runway. That is until you slip to landing one day?? > >What are details of what folk do for a gear warning? > >Opinions if a gear warner is worth the effort, or is GUMP all that is >necessary? > >Thx. >Ron Parigoris > >Just heard of a friend land gear up with his Cozy 3. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:52 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" I use 3 microswitches on the main gear lever (one to sense gear up, one to sense gear down and one to confirm the down lock is engaged). I also have microswitches on the outriggers to sense when the legs are locked down. I have 4 warning lights (one red to show gear unlocked, one green for main gear locked down and a pair of lights to indicate each outrigger locked down) The lights are mounted in the rear of the gear lever slot. They are easily seen from the left seat and the recess ensures that the lights are not affected by strong sunlight. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: 08 August 2006 08:05 Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? --> Europa-List message posted by: Anyone flying have a monowheel gear warning success story? I am not yet flying, but from the 20 minute demo flight and what I have read, you will have a hard time landing a monowheel with flaps up because you can't see the runway. That is until you slip to landing one day?? What are details of what folk do for a gear warning? Opinions if a gear warner is worth the effort, or is GUMP all that is necessary? Thx. Ron Parigoris Just heard of a friend land gear up with his Cozy 3. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:12 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cylinder cracks on 914? Definitely sounds like it!!! Make sure you check the hardness of the head when you remove them and the security of the valve seats, Are you using the Evans coolant? Or 50% antifreeze mix, Regards Ivor _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SPurpura@aol.com Sent: 08 August 2006 02:26 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cylinder cracks on 914? About 2 weeks ago when the OAT was over 100=B0F I had an over temp alarm on my EFIS for about 1 minute before the temps dropped back into normal range, the next flight was 21 days later for 1.2 hrs. & the engine seemed a little rough. I pulled the plugs for a check & the lower sparkplug on the # 2 cylinder was full of coolant,although no noticeable loss of coolant. Got to be a crack in the head right? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:15 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Hi All, I am currently adding some strength with 3 layers of bid around the tubes that the carbs connect to on the air box. They have started to collapse from the pressure of the clamps. I have had the whole box come off from the 2 rubber hoses 3 times. Yes I have the brace in the back going to the motor mount. I even safety wired it to the carbs and one of the wires eventually broke. It is the standard NACA on the top of the cowl with the 912-S. Has anyone else experienced this and is there another way of connecting it to the carbs or reinforcing the connection to the carbs? I believe it may be from the pressure of the ram air coming in from the over size NACA on top. I have all that air going into a plenum thats mounted to the top of the air box. I was thinking of making the plenum opening smaller so some of the air just goes into the engine area and less pressure is placed on the top of the box. All Ideas are welcome as I am out of them. Thanks in advance for any help! Jeff A258 Flying off the 40 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:31 AM PST US From: "James" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off --> Europa-List message posted by: "James" Hi Jeff, Bond in some short pieces of aluminum tubing for the clamping area. It's a combination of pressure (clamps) and heat. Jim Thursby -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF ROBERTS Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 1:16 PM Subject: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Hi All, I am currently adding some strength with 3 layers of bid around the tubes that the carbs connect to on the air box. They have started to collapse from the pressure of the clamps. I have had the whole box come off from the 2 rubber hoses 3 times. Yes I have the brace in the back going to the motor mount. I even safety wired it to the carbs and one of the wires eventually broke. It is the standard NACA on the top of the cowl with the 912-S. Has anyone else experienced this and is there another way of connecting it to the carbs or reinforcing the connection to the carbs? I believe it may be from the pressure of the ram air coming in from the over size NACA on top. I have all that air going into a plenum thats mounted to the top of the air box. I was thinking of making the plenum opening smaller so some of the air just goes into the engine area and less pressure is placed on the top of the box. All Ideas are welcome as I am out of them. Thanks in advance for any help! Jeff A258 Flying off the 40 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:36 AM PST US From: EMAproducts@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 08/07/06 In a message dated 8/8/2006 12:00:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: Time: 05:28:17 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Stalls and spins --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" It is important to realise with all stall warning systems whether they are giving you warnings above a nominated speed or whether they are giving you a warning that you are approaching a critical AOA. For example 5kts warning above a critical AOA is better than 15kts warning above a speed which is the wings level one 'g' stall speed. If you bank 45deg in level flight the stall speed increases by about 40 per cent so if your wings level stall speed was 40kts at 45deg bank it becomes about 56kts. Thus in this case a speed warning of 15kts before the stall becomes no warning at all whereas a conventional stall warner or AOA system will still provide the 5kt warning Nigel Charles Nigel, Excellent comments, This is exactly why I produce an AOA system, an AOA is correct under ALL conditions, it will warn you of the AOA, in our instrument an audio announcement will advise when about 5% under the minimum approach speed. Stall warning devices are like closing the door after the cows are out. To late with to little. An AOA will give proper warning when a trend is apparent, warning 5 or so below the min approach speed, then the stall warning 5 above the stall. In the US the stall warning certification has one stipulation ~~ be at least 5 Kts above stall. I've flown some aircraft where the stall warning is coming on at 20 above the stall, the owners totally ignore it, then get into another aircraft and wham~~ enough said. Elbie EM Aviation _www.riteangle.com_ (http://www.riteangle.com) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:35 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" Hi Jeff I had the same problem last year. I cut off the collapsed tube from the airbox and replaced it with some aluminium tube glassed into position. No further problems in nearly 100 hours and you can do the clamps up as tight as you like. Regards Pete ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:20 AM PST US From: "Jim Naylor" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Naylor" Yes I know of three wheels up landings, and actually witnessed one. Also got close to doing it myself, but fortunately realised the 'picture' was not right. If the runway is on an up slope, then the view can look like a normal approach attitude with the gear and flaps down. I saw this happen on a grass strip. The pilot said everything looked normal on the approach, and didn't know anything was wrong until the crunch happened. Also know of two incidents where wheels up landings happened after distractions - bulked landings, bad weather etc. I have designed a system using a pressure switch (same as the one used in the factory stall Warner) connected to a separate pitot tube. The pressure switch operates a buzzer if the air speed falls below 70kts with the gear retracted. A micro switch fitted to the landing gear cuts out the buzzer if the gear is down. Simple and very effective - almost idiot proof! Jim Naylor ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:04 AM Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > Anyone flying have a monowheel gear warning success story? > > I am not yet flying, but from the 20 minute demo flight and what I have > read, you will have a hard time landing a monowheel with flaps up because > you can't see the runway. That is until you slip to landing one day?? > > What are details of what folk do for a gear warning? > > Opinions if a gear warner is worth the effort, or is GUMP all that is > necessary? > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris > > Just heard of a friend land gear up with his Cozy 3. > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:21 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Thanks Guys! I don't know why I didn't think of that. Going after some tubing now. Jeff A258 Trying to find time to fly off the 40 On Aug 8, 2006, at 11:47 AM, Pete Lawless wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" > > Hi Jeff > > I had the same problem last year. I cut off the collapsed tube from > the > airbox and replaced it with some aluminium tube glassed into position. > No > further problems in nearly 100 hours and you can do the clamps up as > tight > as you like. > > Regards > > Pete > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:15 AM PST US From: "Karl Heindl" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off --> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" Jeff, Exactly the same kept happening to me. The airbox tubes simply aren't strong enough, and you can't really tell when they are collapsing. I have a very simple fix: get a piece of 1 7/8th inch alu tube, cut off two short pieces and jam them into the inside of the tubes. ACS will sell you 12" for a few dollars. To ensure that the airbox never comes off, I also jammed a piece of blue foam between the box and the firewall. Hope that makes sense. Karl >From: JEFF ROBERTS >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off >Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:16:19 -0500 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS > >Hi All, >I am currently adding some strength with 3 layers of bid around the tubes >that the carbs connect to on the air box. They have started to collapse >from the pressure of the clamps. I have had the whole box come off from >the 2 rubber hoses 3 times. Yes I have the brace in the back going to the >motor mount. I even safety wired it to the carbs and one of the wires >eventually broke. It is the standard NACA on the top of the cowl with the >912-S. Has anyone else experienced this and is there another way of >connecting it to the carbs or reinforcing the connection to the carbs? >I believe it may be from the pressure of the ram air coming in from the >over size NACA on top. I have all that air going into a plenum thats >mounted to the top of the air box. I was thinking of making the plenum >opening smaller so some of the air just goes into the engine area and less >pressure is placed on the top of the box. >All Ideas are welcome as I am out of them. Thanks in advance for any help! >Jeff >A258 Flying off the 40 > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >http://wiki.matronics.com > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:21 AM PST US From: "Donald Ingram" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oshkosh by air - return by Avis Richard, I don't know if my emails get beyond my computer, but here goes: Ignition could be the problem. It takes higher voltage to arc across higher pressure fuel mix. If the ignition coil or distributor cap or rotor or wires have conductive "dirt" on them, the spark may jump along the short circuit rather than through the spark plug. In a borderline situation, a higher throttle setting increases the combustion pressure enough to force the voltage to a higher level before arcing, and the higher voltage causes the current to take a short circuit across the deteriorated surface of the distributor cap, etc. Reducing the throttle reduces the plug gap voltage required, and the engine runs normally. Now why this should occur 1 1/2 hrs into cruise, or at higher altitudes, I can not guess. Heat distribution? Your troubleshooting has eliminated the likelyhood of it being a pump or plug problem. I have no experience with the Rotax, but in a different engine, I'd replace the distributor cap and rotor. Donald Ingram xs mono ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Schultz To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 9:54 PM Subject: Europa-List: Oshkosh by air - return by Avis ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:31 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Thanks Karl, I just ordered a foot through WICKS. I'll bond them in with redux then safety wire the box back on as we'll. Jeff A258 Do not archive. On Aug 8, 2006, at 1:24 PM, Karl Heindl wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Karl Heindl" > > > Jeff, > > Exactly the same kept happening to me. The airbox tubes simply aren't > strong enough, and you can't really tell when they are collapsing. > I have a very simple fix: get a piece of 1 7/8th inch alu tube, cut > off two short pieces and jam them into the inside of the tubes. ACS > will sell you 12" for a few dollars. > To ensure that the airbox never comes off, I also jammed a piece of > blue foam between the box and the firewall. > Hope that makes sense. > > Karl > > >> From: JEFF ROBERTS >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off >> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:16:19 -0500 >> >> --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS >> >> Hi All, >> I am currently adding some strength with 3 layers of bid around the >> tubes that the carbs connect to on the air box. They have started to >> collapse from the pressure of the clamps. I have had the whole box >> come off from the 2 rubber hoses 3 times. Yes I have the brace in >> the back going to the motor mount. I even safety wired it to the >> carbs and one of the wires eventually broke. It is the standard NACA >> on the top of the cowl with the 912-S. Has anyone else experienced >> this and is there another way of connecting it to the carbs or >> reinforcing the connection to the carbs? >> I believe it may be from the pressure of the ram air coming in from >> the over size NACA on top. I have all that air going into a plenum >> thats mounted to the top of the air box. I was thinking of making the >> plenum opening smaller so some of the air just goes into the engine >> area and less pressure is placed on the top of the box. >> All Ideas are welcome as I am out of them. Thanks in advance for any >> help! >> Jeff >> A258 Flying off the 40 >> >> >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> http://wiki.matronics.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > Limit Now At: 1MB - 08/08/06 (was 2MB) > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:47 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" < .... so some of the air just goes into the engine area and less pressure > is placed on the top of the box. >> I had in mind doing that by means of leaving off the rubber sealing tongue that contacts the top of the airbox, but in order to use any "surplus" air for general cooling of the under-cowl/electrics and to allow automatic venting of trapped hot air after shutdown. The loss in recovered pressure to the air box is probably negligible as the cowl is already pressurised from the forward facing nostrils (less what is lost through the exits). No results yet or confirmation that the flow through the NACA doesn't reverse at high AoA.. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "JEFF ROBERTS" Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 6:16 PM Subject: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off > --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS > > Hi All, > I am currently adding some strength with 3 layers of bid around the tubes > that the carbs connect to on the air box. They have started to collapse > from the pressure of the clamps. I have had the whole box come off from > the 2 rubber hoses 3 times. Yes I have the brace in the back going to the > motor mount. I even safety wired it to the carbs and one of the wires > eventually broke. It is the standard NACA on the top of the cowl with the > 912-S. Has anyone else experienced this and is there another way of > connecting it to the carbs or reinforcing the connection to the carbs? > I believe it may be from the pressure of the ram air coming in from the > over size NACA on top. I have all that air going into a plenum thats > mounted to the top of the air box. I was thinking of making the plenum > opening smaller so some of the air just goes into the engine area and less > pressure is placed on the top of the box. > All Ideas are welcome as I am out of them. Thanks in advance for any help! > Jeff << ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:27 PM PST US From: "karelvranken" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off --> Europa-List message posted by: "karelvranken" Jeff, It's a question of temperature and clamp pressure. Note that the tubes are slightly conic. I found the whole box of pour design. I toke a negative of it in two halves. Then I made a new box with a mix of carbon and glass and I insert an aluminium tube to match the carb intake. Carbon is conductive that is whatfore I make a layer of glass in contact with the aluminium. Great pleasure in building, Karel Vranken. # 447 Mono XS Rotax 912S Airmaster CSU F-PKRL final control september 7th. ----- Original Message ----- From: "JEFF ROBERTS" Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:16 PM Subject: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off > --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS > > Hi All, > I am currently adding some strength with 3 layers of bid around the tubes > that the carbs connect to on the air box. They have started to collapse > from the pressure of the clamps. I have had the whole box come off from > the 2 rubber hoses 3 times. Yes I have the brace in the back going to the > motor mount. I even safety wired it to the carbs and one of the wires > eventually broke. It is the standard NACA on the top of the cowl with the > 912-S. Has anyone else experienced this and is there another way of > connecting it to the carbs or reinforcing the connection to the carbs? > I believe it may be from the pressure of the ram air coming in from the > over size NACA on top. I have all that air going into a plenum thats > mounted to the top of the air box. I was thinking of making the plenum > opening smaller so some of the air just goes into the engine area and less > pressure is placed on the top of the box. > All Ideas are welcome as I am out of them. Thanks in advance for any help! > Jeff > A258 Flying off the 40 > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:51 PM PST US From: Rman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Air Box Falling Off --> Europa-List message posted by: Rman Jeff, Exactly the same problem, here. Drove a large socket into the hole to expand the crushed glass, then added one layer of bid to the outside. After that cured, I added three layers of bid to the inside. Problem solved... Don't close the air duct. You need all the air you can get, to those carbs... Jeff - Baby Blue 200 hours and the first annual is in the books... JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS > > Hi All, > I am currently adding some strength with 3 layers of bid around the > tubes that the carbs connect to on the air box. They have started to > collapse from the pressure of the clamps. I have had the whole box > come off from the 2 rubber hoses 3 times. Yes I have the brace in the > back going to the motor mount. I even safety wired it to the carbs and > one of the wires eventually broke. It is the standard NACA on the top > of the cowl with the 912-S. Has anyone else experienced this and is > there another way of connecting it to the carbs or reinforcing the > connection to the carbs? > I believe it may be from the pressure of the ram air coming in from > the over size NACA on top. I have all that air going into a plenum > thats mounted to the top of the air box. I was thinking of making the > plenum opening smaller so some of the air just goes into the engine > area and less pressure is placed on the top of the box. > All Ideas are welcome as I am out of them. Thanks in advance for any > help! > Jeff > A258 Flying off the 40 > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:45 PM PST US From: SPurpura@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cylinder cracks on 914? I am using the Evans coolant and I think I'll pull off the gear box and send it to Lockwood as it has 350+hrs on it and KP recommends interim service for extended life.