Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:05 AM - firewall (Paul Stewart)
2. 02:01 AM - Re: firewall (David Joyce)
3. 02:52 AM - Re: firewall (JohnDHeykoop@aol.com)
4. 08:53 AM - Re: Fuel Filters (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu)
5. 09:17 AM - Re: firewall (Graeme Smith)
6. 09:41 AM - Dynon AOA Pitot and AOA, has anyone installed? ()
7. 09:49 AM - Re: firewall (Paul Stewart)
8. 09:51 AM - Re: firewall (ivor.phillips)
9. 12:47 PM - Fuel supply reliability discussion (John & Paddy Wigney)
10. 01:32 PM - Re: Fuel supply reliability discussion (Graham Singleton)
11. 02:52 PM - Re: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? (tony.bale@virgin.net)
12. 03:43 PM - Re: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? (Paul McAllister)
13. 03:54 PM - Re: firewall (Gilles Thesee)
14. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Filters (Gilles Thesee)
15. 04:56 PM - Re: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? (Graham Singleton)
16. 07:19 PM - Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video ()
17. 07:45 PM - Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video (Tom Friedland)
18. 09:27 PM - Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video ()
19. 10:13 PM - Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video (William Mills)
20. 10:23 PM - Re: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? (William Mills)
21. 11:29 PM - Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video (GLENN CROWDER)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
Can anyone tell me what to seal gaps in the firewall with (Graham
Singletons composite version) and where in the UK I might get some
Regards
Paul
G-GIDY
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Paul, My inspector advised using a red coloured mastic that plumbers use for
sealing gaps around boiler flues, which is heat resistant. Unfortunately I
can't remember the name but asking at a plumber's merchant would no doubt
produce a suitable product. It has worked well for me, proving easy to use
on holes and gaps of all sizes, and has lasted 4 yrs without problem.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Stewart" <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:05 AM
Subject: Europa-List: firewall
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
>
> Can anyone tell me what to seal gaps in the firewall with (Graham
> Singletons composite version) and where in the UK I might get some
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
> G-GIDY
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Doctors.net.uk education: totally independent, totally free.
> http://www.doctors.net.uk/education
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
Message 3
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In a message dated 09/08/2006 08:06:56 GMT Standard Time,
europa@pstewart.f2s.com writes:
Can anyone tell me what to seal gaps in the firewall with (Graham
Singletons composite version) and where in the UK I might get some
Paul
I have been advised to use Heatmate paste, which is available from Screwfix.
Regards
John
G-JHKP
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Filters |
--> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
Phil Lockwood's Annual seminar on 912/914 maintainence at Oshkosk touched
on the issue of fuel
filters. He said (paraphrasing):
1) Immediately get rid of paper element filters
2) Gascolators are best option (personally I wait on removing the Europa
filters until all the swarf of spun polypropylene is out)
3) There is nothing wrong with the plastic element in-glass filters
supplied by Europa
He also commented that while the Rotax factory allows 5% alcohol mogas, his
shop has seen
no problems with the 10% alcohol mix in the essentially all (at least
seasonally US mogas.
This does not rule out cheap, ethanol or methanol sensitive fuel hoses.
Much of the rest of the talk was carried over from prior years
Ira, N224XS
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Graeme Smith <graeme@gcsmith.flyer.co.uk>
I used RTV736 high temperature silicone sealant, available from Skydrive
Graeme Smith
No 26
Paul Stewart wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
>
> Can anyone tell me what to seal gaps in the firewall with (Graham
> Singletons composite version) and where in the UK I might get some
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
> G-GIDY
>
>
> --This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Dynon AOA Pitot and AOA, has anyone installed? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Has anyone installed a Dynon Pitot / AOA probe on short wing?
How does the AOA and Pitot work?
How does the AOA deal with flaps retracted ot extended?
What location did you mount on wing, what mount used, does it work with
monowheel trailer/
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
Thanks to all foro the advice
Paul
G-GIDY
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
Also 3M do a fire barrier sealant CP25WB, Apparently it been tested up to
four hours, So you would have run out of fuel by then, Depending on the size
of the fire :-)
I used RTV736 high temperature silicone sealant, available from Skydrive
Graeme Smith
No 26
Paul Stewart wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
>
> Can anyone tell me what to seal gaps in the firewall with (Graham
> Singletons composite version) and where in the UK I might get some
>
> Regards
>
> Paul
>
> G-GIDY
>
>
> --This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Fuel supply reliability discussion |
Dear Europaphiles,
There was some recent discussion regarding blocked fuel filters during
early test flying on the Europa. Some of these stories have happy
endings, others have resulted in accidents. Before I flew my plane in
2001, there had already been quite a lot of discussion on this same
subject and I had concluded that if the Rotax 912/912S/914 is supplied
with fuel, it will generally run without trouble. If one has dirty fuel
for whatever reason, any filter system will block eventually. I
therefore looked for a system which would (1) provide an alarm if there
was a loss of fuel pressure at the carbs and (2) provide an alarm when I
was low on fuel (4 gallons say).
I am sure that there are many ways to achieve these objectives, but my
installation is a Grand Rapids EIS with a fuel pressure sensor which is
located between the engine mechanical pump and the carburetors. The
pressure alarm is set at 0.5 psi. My fuel filter is an Andair GAS125
mini gascolator and contrary to the experience of others, I have never
found more than very minor trash in the bowl. I have no idea why I have
seen so little trash and no slime when others have had significant
stoppages. I installed the filter under the baggage bay shelf. I also
have the fuel flow sensor and totaliser option which gives accurate
indication of consumption and when the '4.0 gallons remaining' alarm
goes off, I know I need to look for a fuel stop. I have tank level
capacitance gauges so I can always cross check.
In 500 hours, I have only had the fuel pressure alarm go off once
(apparently due to an air bubble in the system after some fuel hose
replacements - the problem cleared when I switched on the electric
pump). I have never checked the interval from low fuel pressure alarm
and lack of fuel to engine stop but I believe it is approximately 20
seconds; this is quite short but at least it gives a brief warning of
impending stop.
Cheers, John
N262WF, mono XS, 912S
Mooresville, North Carolina
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel supply reliability discussion |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
John & Paddy Wigney wrote:
> I am sure that there are many ways to achieve these objectives, but my
> installation is a Grand Rapids EIS with a fuel pressure sensor which
> is located between the engine mechanical pump and the carburetors.
> The pressure alarm is set at 0.5 psi. My fuel filter is an Andair
> GAS125 mini gascolator and contrary to the experience of others, I
> have never found more than very minor trash in the bowl. I have no
> idea why I have seen so little trash and no slime when others have had
> significant stoppages. I installed the filter under the baggage bay
> shelf. I also have the fuel flow sensor and totaliser option which
> gives accurate indication of consumption and when the '4.0 gallons
> remaining' alarm goes off, I know I need to look for a fuel stop. I
> have tank level capacitance gauges so I can always cross check.
>
> Cheers, John
John
I think your choice is a wise one, although I would use the GAS 375 for
a 914 installation, the recirculation results in much higher fuel flows
which has been known to block a GAS125 with very fine rust
particles.(from a jerry can) The mesh is 120 micron (from memory) which
is smaller than the mesh in a "Mr Funnel" filter funnel. Both will stop
water.
Andair told me the Rotax specify filter smaller than 100 mu. and 120 is
the nearest available.
Graham
Message 11
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| Subject: | Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "tony.bale@virgin.net" <tony.bale@virgin.net>
Ron,
We now have 130 plus hours with our mono and have never really considered
gear lights, to begin with this was a concern to me as I fly a Piper Arrow
and have lots of horns lights and auto systems to remind me. However, you
would never slow down a mono enough to land without the gear / flaps down,
and to get the gear down you must reduce to low RPM and pitch up - you get
the picture ? to get to anywhere near landing speed (assuming you don't
sideslip for 1000ft) you must have everything hanging out, ofcourse as you
are also decending it makes speed control / reduction even more of a
challenge.
As an aside and purely in my experience and opinion, watch out with adding
all the whistles and bells, the weight of the aircraft will increase
dramatically with little effort.
Regards
Tony.
Original Message:
-----------------
From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP?
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Anyone flying have a monowheel gear warning success story?
I am not yet flying, but from the 20 minute demo flight and what I have
read, you will have a hard time landing a monowheel with flaps up because
you can't see the runway. That is until you slip to landing one day??
What are details of what folk do for a gear warning?
Opinions if a gear warner is worth the effort, or is GUMP all that is
necessary?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Just heard of a friend land gear up with his Cozy 3.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Burt Rutan who is a demon when it comes to aircraft weight was once quoted
as saying, "if you are wondering if to put something on your aircraft or
not, toss it in the air..... if it stays there then its okay to put it on"
Paul
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>tony.bale@virgin.net
>Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 4:47 PM
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP?
>As an aside and purely in my experience and opinion, watch out with adding
>all the whistles and bells, the weight of the aircraft will increase
>dramatically with little effort.
>Regards
>Tony.
Message 13
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Paul Stewart a crit :
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
>
> Can anyone tell me what to seal gaps in the firewall with (Graham
> Singletons composite version) and where in the UK I might get some
Paul,
You'll find some information here :
http://contrails.free.fr/engine_cpf.php
English translation will appear...some day.
It seems that not all product used in ultralights or kitplanes are
really meant to resist flame as firewall compounds should. Always make
sure you check the manufacturer specs.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Filters |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Ira,
> 1) Immediately get rid of paper element filters
>
Did he gave the rationale about this advice ?
Too low filtering power ?
Too easily clogged ?
After all, millions of four-stroke road vehicles, and thousands of
airplanes are running with paper filters and without any problem.
Or wasn't he talking about two-stroke engines ? Paper filters are a
no-no for two-strokes, due to the oil in the fuel blocking the filtering
element.
But what did he find wrong with paper filters in a four-stroke ?
> 2) Gascolators are best option
We're using an Andair gascolator too.
Thanks,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Tony
there are a couple of very experienced RAF trained pilots who have
managed to "wheels up" a mono. I suspect through doing a severe sideslip
and forgetting what was going on?
You're right thought, the view over the nose at landing speed with flaps
up should tell anyone something isn't right
Graham
> However, you
>would never slow down a mono enough to land without the gear / flaps down,
>and to get the gear down you must reduce to low RPM and pitch up - you get
>the picture ? to get to anywhere near landing speed (assuming you don't
>sideslip for 1000ft) you must have everything hanging out,
>Tony.
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Saw this on a RV Newsgroup.
Ron Parigoris
http://www.apstraining.com/clips/skidded_turn_high.wmv
The real problem is stalling while in an uncoordinated turn. In a normal
stall, your wing stalls near the root first - that turbulent air hits the
tail and gives you whatever buffet you're going to get, depending on the
plane.
In a skidded turn, the stall happens further out on the wing and there's
no warning at all - the turbulent air 'misses' the tail. Worse, the first
part of the wing to stall is right out there near the inside wing's
aileron, so you basically lose that too.
The point is that even in a plane that usually gives lots of warning
before stalling, you likely won't get the same warning in an
uncoordinated, turning 'traffic-pattern-type' stall.
See very cool video here.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video |
Thanks Ron
The video of the skidded turn is great! I was first taught 50 years ago to
always coordinate turns. No reason was given that an emphasis was placed on
landing pattern turns sans the reason why. I have always tried to
coordinate turns at all times and was not aware of the problem at low
speeds.
I am not quite flying but I would like to hear the experience of you fly
guys or girls if you practice it in landing configuration at altitude. I
will practice it when I fly, not just for my own learning but for others
that I can preach to..
Tom XS/mono/Jab/airmaster/RiteAngleAoA/N96victor/EllensburgWA
On 8/9/06, rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> Saw this on a RV Newsgroup.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
> http://www.apstraining.com/clips/skidded_turn_high.wmv
>
> The real problem is stalling while in an uncoordinated turn. In a normal
> stall, your wing stalls near the root first - that turbulent air hits the
> tail and gives you whatever buffet you're going to get, depending on the
> plane.
>
> In a skidded turn, the stall happens further out on the wing and there's
> no warning at all - the turbulent air 'misses' the tail. Worse, the first
> part of the wing to stall is right out there near the inside wing's
> aileron, so you basically lose that too.
>
> The point is that even in a plane that usually gives lots of warning
> before stalling, you likely won't get the same warning in an
> uncoordinated, turning 'traffic-pattern-type' stall.
>
> See very cool video here.
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello Tom
"The video of the skidded turn is great!"
Try these too:
http://www.apstraining.com/newsletterlist.htm
I guess this forum should be renamed Training 101.
Ron Parigoris
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
Ron and All,
I can appreciate what happens in an uncoordinated turns when the A/C is
"skidding", i.e. bottom rudder, but I have always been led to believe (and
from my personal experience), that a "slipping" turn, i.e. top rudder, is a
safe manoeuvre and a good way to lose height rapidly. Also a straight side
slip, perhaps on finals to lose more height than flaps alone will generate,
i.e. crossed controls, is safe provided the nose is raised after the
controls are crossed and lowered before the controls are centred. I was
instructed and have instructed these manoeuvres (in gliding) without any
problem and I have the belief that it is impossible to enter a spin from
crossed controls, because the inside wing is leading. Has anyone else been
instructed or has instructed this as well, power or gliding?
Best wishes,
William
----- Original Message -----
From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:17 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video
> --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> Saw this on a RV Newsgroup.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
> http://www.apstraining.com/clips/skidded_turn_high.wmv
>
> The real problem is stalling while in an uncoordinated turn. In a normal
> stall, your wing stalls near the root first - that turbulent air hits the
> tail and gives you whatever buffet you're going to get, depending on the
> plane.
>
> In a skidded turn, the stall happens further out on the wing and there's
> no warning at all - the turbulent air 'misses' the tail. Worse, the first
> part of the wing to stall is right out there near the inside wing's
> aileron, so you basically lose that too.
>
> The point is that even in a plane that usually gives lots of warning
> before stalling, you likely won't get the same warning in an
> uncoordinated, turning 'traffic-pattern-type' stall.
>
> See very cool video here.
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
Tony,
I know of five monos that have landed wheel up and two of those pilots had
over 1000 hours in their Europas when it happened, so I recommend an
"undercarriage not down" warning for peace of mind if nothing else.
I have Jim Naylor's system of a warning siren at below 70 kts and it works
very well. Thank you Jim. Before that I had micro switches on both under
carriage and throttle, so that if you closed the throttle when the wheel is
not down the siren activated, but that can be annoying when you are not
landing! However, better than nothing.
Best wishes,
William
----- Original Message -----
From: <tony.bale@virgin.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:47 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "tony.bale@virgin.net"
> <tony.bale@virgin.net>
>
> Ron,
> We now have 130 plus hours with our mono and have never really considered
> gear lights, to begin with this was a concern to me as I fly a Piper Arrow
> and have lots of horns lights and auto systems to remind me. However, you
> would never slow down a mono enough to land without the gear / flaps down,
> and to get the gear down you must reduce to low RPM and pitch up - you get
> the picture ? to get to anywhere near landing speed (assuming you don't
> sideslip for 1000ft) you must have everything hanging out, ofcourse as you
> are also decending it makes speed control / reduction even more of a
> challenge.
>
> As an aside and purely in my experience and opinion, watch out with adding
> all the whistles and bells, the weight of the aircraft will increase
> dramatically with little effort.
>
> Regards
>
> Tony.
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
> Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 07:04:48 -0000
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP?
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> Anyone flying have a monowheel gear warning success story?
>
> I am not yet flying, but from the 20 minute demo flight and what I have
> read, you will have a hard time landing a monowheel with flaps up because
> you can't see the runway. That is until you slip to landing one day??
>
> What are details of what folk do for a gear warning?
>
> Opinions if a gear warner is worth the effort, or is GUMP all that is
> necessary?
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
> Just heard of a friend land gear up with his Cozy 3.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" <gcrowder2@hotmail.com>
I just asked my instructor of 30 yrs last week about this and he said that
the stall/spin
entry occurs on the base to final turn because a lot of pilots are afraid
of using too much
bank angle When they get to the bank angle they're comfortable with and
still need some more to make the turn, they will use bottom rudder to
tighten the
turn without banking more, causing the stall just like on the video.
My instructor also said it is safe to use top rudder causing a slipping
turn because even
if a stall occurs, the high outside wing will stall first, then only causing
the stalled wing
to return to level. This can be then caught in time to stop a spin entry to
the outside.
I can see there could be a variety of opinions here but it seems there
would be more time to
correct and fly out of the stall.
Glenn
>From: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video
>Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 06:11:46 +0100
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills"
><william@wrmills.plus.com>
>
>Ron and All,
>I can appreciate what happens in an uncoordinated turns when the A/C is
>"skidding", i.e. bottom rudder, but I have always been led to believe (and
>from my personal experience), that a "slipping" turn, i.e. top rudder, is a
>safe manoeuvre and a good way to lose height rapidly. Also a straight side
>slip, perhaps on finals to lose more height than flaps alone will generate,
>i.e. crossed controls, is safe provided the nose is raised after the
>controls are crossed and lowered before the controls are centred. I was
>instructed and have instructed these manoeuvres (in gliding) without any
>problem and I have the belief that it is impossible to enter a spin from
>crossed controls, because the inside wing is leading. Has anyone else been
>instructed or has instructed this as well, power or gliding?
>Best wishes,
>William
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:17 AM
>Subject: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video
>
>
>>--> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>>
>>Saw this on a RV Newsgroup.
>>
>>Ron Parigoris
>>
>>http://www.apstraining.com/clips/skidded_turn_high.wmv
>>
>>The real problem is stalling while in an uncoordinated turn. In a normal
>>stall, your wing stalls near the root first - that turbulent air hits the
>>tail and gives you whatever buffet you're going to get, depending on the
>>plane.
>>
>>In a skidded turn, the stall happens further out on the wing and there's
>>no warning at all - the turbulent air 'misses' the tail. Worse, the first
>>part of the wing to stall is right out there near the inside wing's
>>aileron, so you basically lose that too.
>>
>>The point is that even in a plane that usually gives lots of warning
>>before stalling, you likely won't get the same warning in an
>>uncoordinated, turning 'traffic-pattern-type' stall.
>>
>>See very cool video here.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>
>>
>
>
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