Europa-List Digest Archive

Thu 08/10/06


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:08 AM - Re: Fuel supply reliability discussion (David Joyce)
     2. 02:11 AM - Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video (Graham Singleton)
     3. 02:13 AM - Re: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP? (Pete Lawless)
     4. 04:48 AM - Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video (Wiilliam Daniell)
     5. 05:14 AM - Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video (David Joyce)
     6. 05:29 AM - Slip entry into incipient spin! ()
     7. 05:47 AM - Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video (James)
     8. 06:31 AM - Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video (William Mills)
     9. 08:28 AM - Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video (steve v.)
    10. 08:28 AM - Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video (Graham Singleton)
    11. 12:03 PM - Europa Classic for sale (uk) (Jim Naylor)
    12. 01:36 PM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 08/09/06 (Fergus Kyle)
    13. 01:57 PM - firewall revisitted (Fergus Kyle)
    14. 03:56 PM - Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video (Duncan McFadyean)
    15. 04:37 PM - Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video (William Daniell)
    16. 06:37 PM - 912 oil pressure help (William Daniell)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:08:48 AM PST US
    From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
    Subject: Re: Fuel supply reliability discussion
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> John, I would endorse the value of a low fuel pressure warning light. I have a simple pressure switch set at 3 psi triggering a bright red light in front of my nose. If I deliberately or inadvertently run the main tank dry it lights up in time to switch over to reserve without the engine stopping. I remember also a story of the early 914 company demonstrator having fuel starvation related rough running due to fuel tank derived gunge in the gascolator, which cleared well enough to get them home when the second electric fuel pump was switched on - which suggests that a fuel pressure alarm system would give reasonable notice of impending filter/gascolator blockage to allow the extra pump to see you home. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "John & Paddy Wigney" <johnwigney@alltel.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:45 PM Subject: Europa-List: Fuel supply reliability discussion > Dear Europaphiles, > > There was some recent discussion regarding blocked fuel filters during > early test flying on the Europa. Some of these stories have happy > endings, others have resulted in accidents. Before I flew my plane in > 2001, there had already been quite a lot of discussion on this same > subject and I had concluded that if the Rotax 912/912S/914 is supplied > with fuel, it will generally run without trouble. If one has dirty fuel > for whatever reason, any filter system will block eventually. I > therefore looked for a system which would (1) provide an alarm if there > was a loss of fuel pressure at the carbs and (2) provide an alarm when I > was low on fuel (4 gallons say). > > I am sure that there are many ways to achieve these objectives, but my > installation is a Grand Rapids EIS with a fuel pressure sensor which is > located between the engine mechanical pump and the carburetors. The > pressure alarm is set at 0.5 psi. My fuel filter is an Andair GAS125 > mini gascolator and contrary to the experience of others, I have never > found more than very minor trash in the bowl. I have no idea why I have > seen so little trash and no slime when others have had significant > stoppages. I installed the filter under the baggage bay shelf. I also > have the fuel flow sensor and totaliser option which gives accurate > indication of consumption and when the '4.0 gallons remaining' alarm > goes off, I know I need to look for a fuel stop. I have tank level > capacitance gauges so I can always cross check. > > In 500 hours, I have only had the fuel pressure alarm go off once > (apparently due to an air bubble in the system after some fuel hose > replacements - the problem cleared when I switched on the electric > pump). I have never checked the interval from low fuel pressure alarm > and lack of fuel to engine stop but I believe it is approximately 20 > seconds; this is quite short but at least it gives a brief warning of > impending stop. > > Cheers, John > > N262WF, mono XS, 912S > Mooresville, North Carolina > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Doctors.net.uk education: totally independent, totally free. > http://www.doctors.net.uk/education > ________________________________________________________________________


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:11:52 AM PST US
    From: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> William It certainly isn't impossible to spin from a sideslip. The "outside" wing is shielded by the fuselage so if speed gets too low the aircraft will flick towards the outside wing. Did it in a Condor once. Graham William Mills wrote: > I was instructed and have instructed these manoeuvres (in gliding) > without any problem and I have the belief that it is impossible to > enter a spin from crossed controls, because the inside wing is > leading. Has anyone else been instructed or has instructed this as > well, power or gliding? > Best wishes, > William


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:13:24 AM PST US
    From: "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
    Subject: Monowheel, gear warning or just GUMP?
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info> --> Europa-List message posted by: "tony.bale@virgin.net" --> <tony.bale@virgin.net> < However, you would never slow down a mono enough to land without the gear < / flaps down Oh yes you can I have seen it done twice and heard of several other occasions. Pete


    Message 4


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    Time: 04:48:29 AM PST US
    From: "Wiilliam Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
    Subject: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Wiilliam Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co> I thought that in sideslip provided you had nose well below the horizon you were safe - obviously not. What happened? -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Sent: 10 August, 2006 04:13 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton --> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> William It certainly isn't impossible to spin from a sideslip. The "outside" wing is shielded by the fuselage so if speed gets too low the aircraft will flick towards the outside wing. Did it in a Condor once. Graham William Mills wrote: > I was instructed and have instructed these manoeuvres (in gliding) > without any problem and I have the belief that it is impossible to > enter a spin from crossed controls, because the inside wing is > leading. Has anyone else been instructed or has instructed this as > well, power or gliding? > Best wishes, > William


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:14:32 AM PST US
    From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
    Subject: Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> William, For a gliding tug pilot landing over trees and slideslipping down to round out level was pretty much routine, and I have naturally slideslipped my Europa when appropriate (such as PFLs) I have to say that it has always behaved impeccably and felt entirely comfortable in the slideslip. There is a natural tendency for speed to build up in the slip unless you go out of your way to prevent it and I think it is very unlikely that someone would inadvertently stall in the process. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wiilliam Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Wiilliam Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co> > > I thought that in sideslip provided you had nose well below the horizon you > were safe - obviously not. What happened? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham > Singleton > Sent: 10 August, 2006 04:13 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton > --> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> > > William > It certainly isn't impossible to spin from a sideslip. The "outside" > wing is shielded by the fuselage so if speed gets too low the aircraft will > flick towards the outside wing. Did it in a Condor once. > Graham > > William Mills wrote: > > > I was instructed and have instructed these manoeuvres (in gliding) > > without any problem and I have the belief that it is impossible to > > enter a spin from crossed controls, because the inside wing is > > leading. Has anyone else been instructed or has instructed this as > > well, power or gliding? > > Best wishes, > > William > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Doctors.net.uk education: totally independent, totally free. > http://www.doctors.net.uk/education > _______________________________________________________________________ > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:29:37 AM PST US
    Subject: Slip entry into incipient spin!
    From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> Hello William "I have always been led to believe (and from my personal experience), that a "slipping" turn, i.e. top rudder, is a safe manoeuvre" "I have the belief that it is impossible to enter a spin from crossed controls, because the inside wing is leading." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sorry, but you have the wrong belief! http://www.apstraining.com/vid_clip9_incipient_spin.htm Read article then scroll; down and view video. Most of my flying experience was with a 1948 Cessna 170. Although it had flaps, 30 degrees, it was the same sized hinged flaps as a Cessna 120 that was too small for the 120! I used to slip a lot. With the Cessna, once you had in full rudder, if you pulled too aft on the elevator, it would begin to turn (the elevator acted as a rudder). I was very familiar with the plane and would often practice making it do something undesirable at altitude.Near the ground would limit only to a forward slip. Remember to know your exact aircraft. I had static port in left fuse, so left slip compared to right slip had quite different airspeed indication for same attitude. I am pretty sure the Extra has more rudder than my Cessna that allows more aileron to correct?? I am pretty sure Europa has more rudder than my Cessna?? Anyway, here ya go, top wing stalls first, and upside down ya go. The aileron is down on right top wing keeping it high, so it has a greater angle of attack compared to the left wing, once the right wing stalls, the rudder seals the deal. I don't think I will avoid slips with a Europa, just need to explore at altitude. You will also notice that he is implementing more cross control than a side slip (used to align with runway in a crosswind), more than a forward slip (more dragemup than a side slip), but in fact making a slipping turn (video will show what that is good for). If you look close at video, I think if he were to kept the nose never above the horizon, it has a plenty safe margin even making a slipping turn. If nose never got above the horizon, and slip was limited to a forward slip to drag em up, I don't think that is a problem with a Europa. Other potential problems with slipping a Europa, if you slip for a long time to the left (914 anyway) I don't think the cowl will like you when exhaust is forced into it, and am wondering if you did it from a few thousand feet, if carbon monoxide would be a problem making its way into plane? Also if a monowheel, slipping to the left will allow left pilot to more easily see runway, perhaps allowing a gear up landing. Long term sideslip on some aeroplanes can uncover the fuel pick ups (especial with wing tanks) allowing for a song to be played on final, "Silent Night". Running on reserve on a Europa, if right side is reserve a long slip in bumpy conditions could slosh reserve to left, and when you need to go around and go nose up........ The 914 has a deviation of bank angle max. limit of 40 degrees (owners manual page 10-2). If you are making a coordinated turn with a 70 degree bank, the effective bank angle is zero. Foward slip with a more than 40 degree bank angle will void your warrenty. I don't have an hour on a Europa, so don't know if you could make it to 40 degrees in a slip. Worth to have a look at all the TRAINING VIDEOS AND DISCUSSIONS and TRAINING ARTICLES here: http://www.apstraining.com/newsletterlist.htm Read and view videos. Please don't let any of this scare new or low time pilots from flying. PLEASE DO scare all pilots into being proficient and well rehearsed and familiar to not perform this stuff unintentional. Best way to know aircraft is to see where bad stuff happens, do it at altitude and with a experienced in type and maneuver instructor. If you get into trouble, what to do about it to lose minimal altitude which can be quite surprising even if recovery is performed faultless. Be sure to have a look at inverted spin recovery: http://www.apstraining.com/vid_clip10_inverted_spin_recovery.htm Visual meaning to not push forward when recovering from spin. Even if you don't go out and practice, bookmark in your computer and have a look at Biennial Ron Parigoris Training 101


    Message 7


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    Time: 05:47:05 AM PST US
    From: "James" <jthursby@tampabay.rr.com>
    Subject: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "James" <jthursby@tampabay.rr.com> You are. It's when the nose comes up that you better watch out. The plane will do some interesing things then. Make sure you have some spin training and go try it out up above six or eight thousand feet. When I flew the company planes I had wondered about this so on the urging of Clive Davidson I took the mono out one day, climbed up high and proceded to manhandle it around mock landing approaches to see it's (and my) limits. Full rudder slips are a joy to see but if the windscreen isn't half or more full of green you had better push it over. I found if you had the approach trimmed hands off you were pushing a couple pounds of down elevator to maintain a good/safe slip. I also found that if you did try something stupid with the bank angle or rudder goosing it to half throttle would hold off the stall to a much higher angle and increase your margins. (remember your power on stalls?) James T. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wiilliam Daniell Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:47 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video --> Europa-List message posted by: "Wiilliam Daniell" --> <wdaniell@etb.net.co> I thought that in sideslip provided you had nose well below the horizon you were safe - obviously not. What happened? -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Sent: 10 August, 2006 04:13 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton --> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> William It certainly isn't impossible to spin from a sideslip. The "outside" wing is shielded by the fuselage so if speed gets too low the aircraft will flick towards the outside wing. Did it in a Condor once. Graham William Mills wrote: > I was instructed and have instructed these manoeuvres (in gliding) > without any problem and I have the belief that it is impossible to > enter a spin from crossed controls, because the inside wing is > leading. Has anyone else been instructed or has instructed this as > well, power or gliding? > Best wishes, > William


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:31:51 AM PST US
    From: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com>
    Subject: Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com> William You probably would be safe if the nose was kept low, but to maximise the sink rate in a sideslip or slipping turn, the nose needs to be raised above the horizon. In a glider I suspect the wings are long enough and the fuselage slim enough for the shielding effect (that Graham mentions) not to cause the trailing wing to stall. I have intentionally abused gliders in both slipping turns and sideslips (at a safe height) without experiencing any undesirable results. However, in the case of the Europa with short wings and a relatively large fuselage, I can appreciate Graham's point that it might tip towards the trailing wing if the manoeuvre is taken to the extremes. Although I have comfortably sideslipped my Europa on many occasions, when too high on the approach, without any problems, I will have to do some experimenting at a safe height, of course, to see what happens if I take it to the extremes! Hope that helps, William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wiilliam Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Wiilliam Daniell" > <wdaniell@etb.net.co> > > I thought that in sideslip provided you had nose well below the horizon > you > were safe - obviously not. What happened? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham > Singleton > Sent: 10 August, 2006 04:13 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton > --> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> > > William > It certainly isn't impossible to spin from a sideslip. The "outside" > wing is shielded by the fuselage so if speed gets too low the aircraft > will > flick towards the outside wing. Did it in a Condor once. > Graham > > William Mills wrote: > >> I was instructed and have instructed these manoeuvres (in gliding) >> without any problem and I have the belief that it is impossible to >> enter a spin from crossed controls, because the inside wing is >> leading. Has anyone else been instructed or has instructed this as >> well, power or gliding? >> Best wishes, >> William > > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:28:09 AM PST US
    Subject: RE: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video
    From: "steve v." <s.vestuti@virgin.net>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." <s.vestuti@virgin.net> Excellent video & thanks for the link Ron, I understand the entry clearly, but the recovery from inverted is a little gray - can any one provide more detail? My Europa XS is almost finished & i find these discussions on stall spin maneuvers invaluable and interesting ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:28:15 AM PST US
    From: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> Nose wasn't well below the horizon, I was exploring the envelope. Plenty of height for recovery. This was in the days when I was gliding (and towing gliders) We used to have a lot of confidence in our ability to recover from a spin. Sometimes that confidence was unwise because airplanes that are hard to spin are also hard to recover. No one told us that! Graham Wiilliam Daniell wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Wiilliam Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co> > >I thought that in sideslip provided you had nose well below the horizon you >were safe - obviously not. What happened? > > > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:03:10 PM PST US
    From: "Jim Naylor" <jimnaylor.44@virgin.net>
    Subject: Europa Classic for sale (uk)
    Dari Saga has decided to sell his Classic mono due to his retirement, and a globe trotting new life. He has asked me to sell it while he is away on a 6-month trip to South America. Briefly details: Mono Classic 912 UL Built 16/12/1998 TT Airframe 299 TT Engine 145 Skyforce colour map Full panel Radio Xponder And loads more =A329000 Any one interested e-mail me off line for full details jimnaylor.44@virgin.net


    Message 12


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    Time: 01:36:33 PM PST US
    From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
    Subject: Re: Europa-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 08/09/06
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> | Time: 10:13:11 PM PST US | From: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com> | Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video | | --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <william@wrmills.plus.com> | | Ron and All, | I can appreciate what happens in an uncoordinated turns when the A/C is | "skidding", i.e. bottom rudder, but I have always been led to believe (and | from my personal experience), that a "slipping" turn, i.e. top rudder, is a | safe manoeuvre and a good way to lose height rapidly. Also a straight side | slip, perhaps on finals to lose more height than flaps alone will generate, | i.e. crossed controls, is safe provided the nose is raised after the | controls are crossed and lowered before the controls are centred. I was | instructed and have instructed these manoeuvres (in gliding) without any | problem and I have the belief that it is impossible to enter a spin from | crossed controls, because the inside wing is leading. Has anyone else been | instructed or has instructed this as well, power or gliding? | Best wishes, | William William, What you say above is so, except in a turn. The true slip should not be in a turn because the temptation is to either reduce outside rudder or add inside rudder to make the nose rotate faster (when the manoeuvre is not suffuicient to regain centreline soon enough). That's because the inner wing is travelling slower than the outer (a turn) and then inside rudder reduces it even further. It's the speed of each wing that's at the crux of the problem. Crossing controls hides the appearance of the difference in lift capability, particularly if stall characteristsic have not been investigated or practised sufficiently. Slip/skid is not for every aircraft - see the Cessna handbook- - - . Often the fuselage blanks the stab/elev, or the wing turbulence does the same. Each machine is a compromise and it's vital to find out what ours is.... Cheers, Ferg


    Message 13


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    Time: 01:57:00 PM PST US
    From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
    Subject: firewall revisitted
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> > Can anyone tell me what to seal gaps in the firewall with (Graham > Singletons composite version) and where in the UK I might get some Paul, I used "FlameSafe" FS1900 Sealant, which is Intumescent and elastomeric and several other big words but claims to be a 'Firestop'. I stuck it on SS plate, on GraSing's firewall material and by itself and stuck the blowtorch blue on it for 15 minutes. It didn't like it and turned black then orange and glowed but didn't budge (well maybe one or two particles departed). I took photos of the display for my inspector. The stuff comes in a 10oz cartridge so needs a squeeze gun and it's pretty rubbery anbd resistant to move, but it does jam nicely into crevices samller that the hole you cut. It can be finished with a wet spatula for looks and will harden in hours - overnight is good. For inspectors and their ilk, I then finish it off with fireseal which is good for 250deg and shines nicely. They know. You mustn't eat it, lick it or put it in any waterway and it can cause cancer, and birth defects. It's too late to avoid the latter anyway.. It is made byWR Grace & Co od Cambridge Maryland USA, part #26871. "Visit our website at: www.graceconstruction.com or dial USA 866-333-3726 for technical assistance. Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic


    Message 14


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    Time: 03:56:25 PM PST US
    From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't find sideslipping a Europa to be a beneficial means of losing height on the approach. That is (in addition to the fact that sink rate isn't increased by much), given the lack of confidence in the ASI reading during a side slip, I always make sure to speed up a bit. That means extra speed when coming out of the side slip and (if it's a short strip) a missed approach as a consequence. Or if the height control is needed further out on the approach, S-turns will do the job. Co-ordinated of course! Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video > --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" > <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> > > William, For a gliding tug pilot landing over trees and slideslipping down > to round out level was pretty much routine, and I have naturally > slideslipped my Europa when appropriate (such as PFLs) I have to say that > it > has always behaved impeccably and felt entirely comfortable in the > slideslip. There is a natural tendency for speed to build up in the slip > unless you go out of your way to prevent it and I think it is very > unlikely > that someone would inadvertently stall in the process. Regards, David > Joyce, > G-XSDJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wiilliam Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:47 PM > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Wiilliam Daniell" > <wdaniell@etb.net.co> >> >> I thought that in sideslip provided you had nose well below the horizon > you >> were safe - obviously not. What happened? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham >> Singleton >> Sent: 10 August, 2006 04:13 >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video >> >> --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton >> --> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> >> >> William >> It certainly isn't impossible to spin from a sideslip. The "outside" >> wing is shielded by the fuselage so if speed gets too low the aircraft > will >> flick towards the outside wing. Did it in a Condor once. >> Graham >> >> William Mills wrote: >> >> > I was instructed and have instructed these manoeuvres (in gliding) >> > without any problem and I have the belief that it is impossible to >> > enter a spin from crossed controls, because the inside wing is >> > leading. Has anyone else been instructed or has instructed this as >> > well, power or gliding? >> > Best wishes, >> > William >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> >> Doctors.net.uk education: totally independent, totally free. >> http://www.doctors.net.uk/education >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> >> > > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 04:37:50 PM PST US
    From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
    Subject: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co> thanks -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce Sent: 10 August, 2006 07:14 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" --> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> William, For a gliding tug pilot landing over trees and slideslipping down to round out level was pretty much routine, and I have naturally slideslipped my Europa when appropriate (such as PFLs) I have to say that it has always behaved impeccably and felt entirely comfortable in the slideslip. There is a natural tendency for speed to build up in the slip unless you go out of your way to prevent it and I think it is very unlikely that someone would inadvertently stall in the process. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wiilliam Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Wiilliam Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co> > > I thought that in sideslip provided you had nose well below the horizon you > were safe - obviously not. What happened? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham > Singleton > Sent: 10 August, 2006 04:13 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skidded turn traffic pattern stall video > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton > --> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> > > William > It certainly isn't impossible to spin from a sideslip. The "outside" > wing is shielded by the fuselage so if speed gets too low the aircraft will > flick towards the outside wing. Did it in a Condor once. > Graham > > William Mills wrote: > > > I was instructed and have instructed these manoeuvres (in gliding) > > without any problem and I have the belief that it is impossible to > > enter a spin from crossed controls, because the inside wing is > > leading. Has anyone else been instructed or has instructed this as > > well, power or gliding? > > Best wishes, > > William > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Doctors.net.uk education: totally independent, totally free. > http://www.doctors.net.uk/education > _______________________________________________________________________ > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 06:37:02 PM PST US
    From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
    Subject: 912 oil pressure help
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co> My 912 oil pressure is fine on start up then after 2-3 minutes drops to under 2 bar and then after a further 3-4 minutes goes back up to normal and behaves normally thereafter. Any ideas? Will




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