---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/21/06: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:29 AM - Re: Binx, bincus, binxi, bictem (Paul Stewart) 2. 01:42 AM - Re: PFA mods (Brian Davies) 3. 02:57 AM - AW: PFA mods (Ing. Gottfried Komaier) 4. 04:03 AM - Re: PFA mods (William Mills) 5. 04:24 AM - Re: PFA mods (nigel charles) 6. 04:28 AM - Re: Carb. heater block temp. (William Mills) 7. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: Binx, bincus, binxi, bictem (Graham Singleton) 8. 07:32 AM - Re: Carb. heater block temp. (John & Paddy Wigney) 9. 07:32 AM - Re: binx nuts (europa flugzeug fabrik) 10. 08:22 AM - Re: Re: Binx, bincus, binxi, bictem (europa@pstewart.f2s.com) 11. 10:22 AM - Re: Carb. heater block temp. (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 12. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: Carb. heater block temp. (mau11) 13. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: Re: Fuel Filters (mau11) 14. 02:10 PM - Re: Carb. heater block temp. (Duncan McFadyean) 15. 02:40 PM - Max range (Richard Holder) 16. 07:03 PM - Strobe Light (Paul McAllister) 17. 08:07 PM - Re: Strobe Light (Fred Klein) 18. 09:03 PM - Re: Strobe Light (Michael Grass) 19. 11:48 PM - Re: Strobe Light (Paul Stewart) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:48 AM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Europa-List: Re: Binx, bincus, binxi, bictem --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart I have replied to Ferg off line enclosing some product info about binx nuts suggesting they are good for several uses. As I'm now confused, what have others done - many must have put their engines on more than once. Regards Paul G-GIDY On 21 Aug 2006, at 05:00, Fergus Kyle wrote: > Paul, > By now you will know that the Binx nuts area one-use > affair, like > many distortion nuts. I have ordered three spare sets for future > engine > removal - just in case..... > Cheers > Ferg Kyle > Europa A064 914 Classic > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:42:37 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: PFA mods I dont have the answer to your question Simon, but I am also thinking of fitting a JPI FS450 to my 912S. I have been offered the unit with the Floscan 231 sensor because I have a carburetted engine. Has anyone experience of using this sensor on a Rotax 912S or should I insist on the Floscan 201 which has a much higher pressure drop. Brian Davies _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Simon Smith Sent: 20 August 2006 16:50 Subject: Europa-List: PFA mods Hi all, Has anyone already got a mod number for adding a JPI FS450 and 2x Floscan 201=92s to a 914 Europa? Regards Simon "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/ Nav igator?Europa-List "http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com "http://wiki.matronics.com"http://wiki.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut ion 15/08/2006 -- 15/08/2006 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:57:07 AM PST US From: "Ing. Gottfried Komaier" Subject: AW: Europa-List: PFA mods Simon, I think the 201 Floscan is the right choice. The engine information system EIS for my 914 is from GRT and works with two 201's. This guys have a long experience in fuel flow measuring. I think there is a reason why they use the 201's. And all other companies which I studied before, works with the 201 as well. Greetings, Gottfried Komaier _____ Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Brian Davies Gesendet: Montag, 21. August 2006 10:42 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: RE: Europa-List: PFA mods I dont have the answer to your question Simon, but I am also thinking of fitting a JPI FS450 to my 912S. I have been offered the unit with the Floscan 231 sensor because I have a carburetted engine. Has anyone experience of using this sensor on a Rotax 912S or should I insist on the Floscan 201 which has a much higher pressure drop. Brian Davies _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Simon Smith Sent: 20 August 2006 16:50 Subject: Europa-List: PFA mods Hi all, Has anyone already got a mod number for adding a JPI FS450 and 2x Floscan 201's to a 914 Europa? Regards Simon -- No virus found in this Edition. -- 15/08/2006 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:08 AM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA mods Brian, I have the 201 in my Benwick fuel computer system and it seems to work well. Regards, William ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Davies To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 9:42 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: PFA mods I dont have the answer to your question Simon, but I am also thinking of fitting a JPI FS450 to my 912S. I have been offered the unit with the Floscan 231 sensor because I have a carburetted engine. Has anyone experience of using this sensor on a Rotax 912S or should I insist on the Floscan 201 which has a much higher pressure drop. Brian Davies ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Simon Smith Sent: 20 August 2006 16:50 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: PFA mods Hi all, Has anyone already got a mod number for adding a JPI FS450 and 2x Floscan 201=92s to a 914 Europa? Regards Simon -- No virus found in this Edition. -- 15/08/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 16/08/2006 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:53 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: PFA mods I am not familiar with the Floscan 231 but the 201 version works well with the Rotax 912S. When you talk about pressure drop the maximum stated pressure drop across the sensor for the 201 was given as 0.15psi (and to achieve that I believe the flow rate had to be about 30galls/hr) which is not a lot when the system is generally working between 3 and 5psi. The important thing with flow sensors is that they should not block easily. The Floscan is good in this respect unlike the Elba unit. The Elba unit can restrict fuel flow enough such that the engine cannot pass the fuel flow test. A sensor with a good capacity minimises risk of blockage or flow/pressure restriction but it also needs to be accurate. In tests with the 201 unit we are finding the quoted accuracy of within 2-3% is very conservative. Typically we are getting accuracies of within 0.25% which is very reassuring when it is used to give a calculated fuel contents. The repeatable accuracy I am getting means I know my fuel contents to within 0.25 litres at any stage. Nigel Charles -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Davies Sent: 21 August 2006 09:42 Subject: RE: Europa-List: PFA mods I dont have the answer to your question Simon, but I am also thinking of fitting a JPI FS450 to my 912S. I have been offered the unit with the Floscan 231 sensor because I have a carburetted engine. Has anyone experience of using this sensor on a Rotax 912S or should I insist on the Floscan 201 which has a much higher pressure drop. Brian Davies _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Simon Smith Sent: 20 August 2006 16:50 Subject: Europa-List: PFA mods Hi all, Has anyone already got a mod number for adding a JPI FS450 and 2x Floscan 201's to a 914 Europa? Regards Simon -- No virus found in this Edition. -- 15/08/2006 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:41 AM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Carb. heater block temp. Svein, I have the flow control valve installed in my Skydrive system which I find very useful. Throughout the summer months it is generally off, because, unless it is very humid, or I am passing through cloud, I do not believe there is much risk of carb ice. However, if it is left on in the summer, it can cause problems with fuel vaporisation, when trying to re-start after stopping the engine for a short while, (e.g. a fuel stop). When I had my first set of carb heaters, it was supplied with a temperature gauge as you describe, so I was able to use the valve to control the carb temperature in the winter months to about 30 to 40 degs. My latest heaters (with my new engine) do not have the drilling for a probe, so I have to guess how much to open the valve in the winter months. If you use a change-over switch and another probe you can have the choice of OAT or carb temp at the flick of a switch. Best wishes, William ----- Original Message ----- From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen To: Europa List Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:56 PM Subject: Europa-List: Carb. heater block temp. Having completed the ground testing and awaiting CAA inspection, I have time to contemplate on one observation made: The temp. indicator that came with Skydrive's carb. heater blocks for 912S shows block temp increasing as the CHT readings increase. When reaching 50 degr. C, the indicator flashes HHH (as it is supposed to do at this temp.). According to Skydrive's notes, the carb. heater block temp normally is between 20 and 50 degr. C. This is, I take it, in flight. Here are my questions to those already flying with this equipment: - Do the blocks cool down when airborne and operating the engine at normal flying loads, i.e. when the higher fuel volume evaporation cools the carburetors from the inside? Or does your temperature reading always stay below 50 degr. C even when taxiing on the ground? - Have you fitted any permanent restrictor in the branch-off tube to the carb. heater blocks, or fitted the flow control valve that Skydrive provides as an option, in order to keep the carb. heater block temp. in the range mentioned by Skydrive? Best regards, Svein A225 - now in Norway ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:41 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Binx, bincus, binxi, bictem --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton Paul If it was my airplane I would not use any Nyloc type nut forward of the firewall. Nylon softens with heat so what happens to the locking then? The sensible way is to use AN bolts and castellated nuts with a split pin, use it as many times as you want with a new split pin. This is also the way to do it when the bolt is free to rotate. Graham Paul Stewart wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart > > I have replied to Ferg off line enclosing some product info about > binx nuts suggesting they are good for several uses. As I'm now > confused, what have others done - many must have put their engines on > more than once. > > Regards > > Paul > G-GIDY ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:22 AM PST US From: John & Paddy Wigney Subject: Re: Europa-List: Carb. heater block temp. Hi Svein, I have had the Skydrive carb heater blocks from day 1, they have been completely trouble free. After start up and during normal flying, the temp gauge flashes 'HHH'. In cold weather, the temperature indication sometimes falls below 50 deg C. I have no restrictors and no control valve, they are not necessary in my opinion. Cheers, John N262WF, monoXS, 912S, 500+ hours Mooresville, North Carolina *From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" *Subject: Europa-List: Carb. heater block temp. *Having completed the ground testing and awaiting CAA inspection, I have time to contemplate on one observation made: *The temp. indicator that came with Skydrive's carb. heater blocks for 912S shows block temp increasing as the CHT readings *increase. When reaching 50 degr. C, the indicator flashes HHH (as it is supposed to do at this temp.). *According to Skydrive's notes, the carb. heater block temp normally is between 20 and 50 degr. C. This is, I take it, in *flight. *Here are my questions to those already flying with this equipment: *- Do the blocks cool down when airborne and operating the engine at normal flying loads, i.e. when the higher fuel volume *evaporation cools the carburetors from the inside? Or does your temperature reading always stay below 50 degr. C even when *taxiing on the ground? *- Have you fitted any permanent restrictor in the branch-off tube to the carb. heater blocks, or fitted the flow control *valve that Skydrive provides as an option, in order to keep the carb. heater block temp. in the range mentioned by *Skydrive? *Best regards, Svein A225 - now in Norway ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:38 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: binx nuts From: "europa flugzeug fabrik" --> Europa-List message posted by: "europa flugzeug fabrik" paul(at)pstewart.f2s.com wrote: > We have just re fitted our engine having removed it for fuselage painting. The M10 binx nuts don't seem to feel as 'stiff' on tightening as they did. Are they by any chance one use only - ????? I found it easy to drill holes in both the bolt head and nut, and safety wire them together. Used a high-quality drill bit and variable speed drill, probably 1/16". Fred F. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56066#56066 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:05 AM PST US From: europa@pstewart.f2s.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Binx, bincus, binxi, bictem --> Europa-List message posted by: europa@pstewart.f2s.com Graham They are not nyloc nuts. Paul Quoting Graham Singleton : > --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton > > > Paul > If it was my airplane I would not use any Nyloc type nut forward of the > firewall. Nylon softens with heat so what happens to the locking then? > The sensible way is to use AN bolts and castellated nuts with a split > pin, use it as many times as you want with a new split pin. This is also > the way to do it when the bolt is free to rotate. > Graham > > Paul Stewart wrote: > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart > > > > I have replied to Ferg off line enclosing some product info about > > binx nuts suggesting they are good for several uses. As I'm now > > confused, what have others done - many must have put their engines on > > more than once. > > > > Regards > > > > Paul > > G-GIDY > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:35 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Carb. heater block temp. To all who responded so quickly to my question: Thank you very much! Best regards, Svein ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:04 AM PST US From: "mau11" Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: Carb. heater block temp. 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Re: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel Filters X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] DQpIZWxsbyBQYXRyaWNrLA0KSSB0aGluayB0aGUgc2FtZSBtYW5lciwgSSBoYXZlIHR3byBldXJv cGEgdHJhbnNwYXJlbnQgZmlsdGVycyBQdXJvbGF0b3IsIGVhY2ggb24gdGhlIGJvdHRvbSBvZiB0 aGUgdHdvIHNlYXRzLCB3aXRoIHBhcmFsbGVsIGNvbm5lY3Rpb24gb24gdGhlIGZ1ZWwgY2lyY3Vp dC4NCkkgaW5jbHVkZSB0aGUgZmlsdGVycyBjb250cm9sIGludG8gdGhlIHByZS1mbGlnaHQgY2hl Y2suDQoNCkkgZG9uJ3QgbGlrZSB0aGUgZ2FzY29sYXRvciBiZWNhdXNlIGl0IGlzIG5vdCBwb3Nz aWJsZSB0byBjaGVjayBlYXNpbHkgYmVmb3JlIGZsaWdodC4NCg0KSSBoYXZlIDMwMCBob3VycyBm bGlnaHQgbm93DQoNCkV1cm9wYSBtb25vd2hlZWwgTrAxNDUgLSA5MTIgLSBXb29kY29tbHAgcHJv cGVsbGVyIGNvbnN0YW50IHNwZWVkLg0KDQpHb29kIGZsaWdodC4NCg0KTWljaGVsIEFVVlJBWQ0K DQoNCg0KDQoNCkJvYiwNCg0KSSBoYXZlIHRoZSBzYW1lIHN0ZSB1cCBhbmQgaXQgc2VlbXMgdG8g d29yayB2ZXJ5IHdlbGwuICBUaGUgZmlsdGVycyBhcmUgZWFzaWx5IGFjY2Vzc2libGUgYW5kIHRh a2Ugb25seSBtaW51dGVzIHRvIGNoZWNrLiAgSSBzZWUgbm8gcmVhc29uIHRvIGFkZCBhbnkgY29t cGxpY2F0aW9ucy4gVGhlIGEvYyBoYXMgMTQwIGhvdXJzIGFuZCBubyBwcm9ibGVtcy4NCg0KUGF0 cmljaw0K ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:07 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Carb. heater block temp. By way of comparison, my carb body temps (i.e. as measured on the outside of the venturi, not on the heater block) have run at between 23C and 53C between the hottest and coldest days of UK operation over a period of 5 years; the latter temperature being untypical and during the recent record July temperatures of 30C+. But I don't have the Skydrive carb heater fitted. Rather, I have the Classic style of rear exhaust header, where the exhaust pipe passes quite close to the carb. Also, carburettor air is taken from under the cowl, not from outside, which is undesirable on two counts, but I have never experienced carb icing. Temperatures go up during taxiing, down during flight. Hot starting can be a problem with Mogas. Next trick is to see what temps. are experienced with external air. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sidsel & Svein Johnsen To: Europa List Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:56 PM Subject: Europa-List: Carb. heater block temp. Having completed the ground testing and awaiting CAA inspection, I have time to contemplate on one observation made: The temp. indicator that came with Skydrive's carb. heater blocks for 912S shows block temp increasing as the CHT readings increase. When reaching 50 degr. C, the indicator flashes HHH (as it is supposed to do at this temp.). According to Skydrive's notes, the carb. heater block temp normally is between 20 and 50 degr. C. This is, I take it, in flight. Here are my questions to those already flying with this equipment: - Do the blocks cool down when airborne and operating the engine at normal flying loads, i.e. when the higher fuel volume evaporation cools the carburetors from the inside? Or does your temperature reading always stay below 50 degr. C even when taxiing on the ground? - Have you fitted any permanent restrictor in the branch-off tube to the carb. heater blocks, or fitted the flow control valve that Skydrive provides as an option, in order to keep the carb. heater block temp. in the range mentioned by Skydrive? Best regards, Svein A225 - now in Norway ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:40:42 PM PST US From: Richard Holder Subject: Europa-List: Max range --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder The excel spreadsheet was pretty but didn't show the answer to the question. It should not graph the "difference between this speed and the speed at the previous MP". What matters is range, and that is determined by IAS and mpg. I have to assume the quoted figures are right, in which case the obvious is proven. The slower you go the greater the range - in fact the range at 23 MAP (65 knots) is 50% more than the range at 33 MAP (141 knots). However no range is lost by increasing the MAP from 23 to 25. Assuming the fuel burn figures are Imp galls per hour, and that the tank holds 15 gallons (imp) at MAP 23 the range is 443 nM which takes 6.8 hours and at MAP 33 the range is 302 nM which takes 2.1 hours MAP nM IAS range duration /gall nM hrs 23 30 65 443 6.8 24 30 88 455 5.2 25 30 108 450 4.2 26 28 120 419 3.5 27 26 125 383 3.1 28 24 129 365 2.8 29 23 131 345 2.6 30 23 133 338 2.5 31 21 136 319 2.3 32 20 139 307 2.2 33 20 141 302 2.1 This analysis shows much more clearly the difference between the tortoise (at MAP 23) and the hare (at 33 !) I am sure these figures are with a fixed pitch prop. I am not sure which engine is shown either. With a CS prop there is another parameter involved - so 3D graphing is required :-) With my 912S with Airmaster I get at 4600 rpm and 25.5 MAP 16 litres an hour and 115 knots. MAP Burn nM IAS range duration /gall nM hrs 25.5 3.5 32.7 115 490 4.3 I see that as a fair compromise between speed and economy :-) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:46 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Europa-List: Strobe Light --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi all, When I was at the PFA rally in 2003 I purchased a nice tear drop shaped strobe light which I installed on my fin. Unfortunately the cover either fell off or, more likely was "appropriated" at I fly in I went to last week. I'd like to buy another one, but I can't remember the suppler. If anyone could hazard a guess as to who the suppler was along with a WEB page I'd certainly appreciate it. Thanks, Paul ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Strobe Light From: Fred Klein --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein Paul...I thought you had a Whelen A500A-14-V on your fin. Are you saying you had found a tear drop shaped cover for it? Fred A194 On Monday, August 21, 2006, at 07:02 PM, Paul McAllister wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > > Hi all, > > When I was at the PFA rally in 2003 I purchased a nice tear drop shaped > strobe light which I installed on my fin. > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:30 PM PST US From: "Michael Grass" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Strobe Light --> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" Paul, I could sworn you had a Kuntzelman Strobe which you get at www.kestrobes.com Click on the button for the online store and you find the spare parts. Spare lenses are $10. But I am not 100% sure. The last time I have seen your plane was about 1 year ago. Michael Grass A266 Trigear Detroit Mi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul McAllister" Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:02 PM Subject: Europa-List: Strobe Light > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > > Hi all, > > When I was at the PFA rally in 2003 I purchased a nice tear drop shaped > strobe light which I installed on my fin. > > Unfortunately the cover either fell off or, more likely was "appropriated" > at I fly in I went to last week. I'd like to buy another one, but I can't > remember the suppler. If anyone could hazard a guess as to who the > suppler > was along with a WEB page I'd certainly appreciate it. > > Thanks, Paul > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:01 PM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Re: Europa-List: Strobe Light --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart Paul I've not seen your plane but there is a company in the UK called airworld who supply teardrop shaped strobe systems - they may well have been at the PFA rally. Replacement lenses about 44 GBP I think. www.airworlduk.com regards Paul G-GIDY On 22 Aug 2006, at 03:02, Paul McAllister wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > > Hi all, > > When I was at the PFA rally in 2003 I purchased a nice tear drop > shaped > strobe light which I installed on my fin. > > Unfortunately the cover either fell off or, more likely was > "appropriated" > at I fly in I went to last week. I'd like to buy another one, but > I can't > remember the suppler. If anyone could hazard a guess as to who the > suppler > was along with a WEB page I'd certainly appreciate it. > > Thanks, Paul > >